John Greenewald: That's right, everybody. As always, thank you
so much for tuning in and taking this journey inside the black
vault with me. I'm your host, John Greenewald, Jr, founder and
creator of the black vault.com. And we are on the eve of the
much anticipated UAP hearing. Now joining me today and I'm
excited about this interview, is investigative journalist and
professor at at John Hopkins, Matt Laszlo. Matt, thank you so
much for taking the time out of your day. I know you've been
incredibly busy. But thank you for joining us. Thanks for
having me. Absolutely. And the reason why I'm looking forward
to this, and I told you this off the air, but I want to tell you
on as well, is I have a lot of respect for those that actually
get out into the field. They talk to people, they do their
own journalism, which is actually pretty rare nowadays,
simply because most people they sit in a chair, I call it copy
and paste journalism, they take somebody else's work. They
fumble around the words a little bit and they call it their own.
But you're in the field, you are talking to Congressman senators,
talking about the UA period, UAP hearing and beyond. But before
we get into that, I want to back up a little bit. It's your first
time on the show, hopefully, you'll come back. But give
everybody a little bit of background about your, your
work, and what is it exactly that you cover?
Matt Laslo: So I've been covering Congress now 17 years
for the contributor at VICE VICE News tonight. Rolling Stone
Playboy, currently contributor at Wired Magazine and raw story.
So I like to write for the fun ones, I guess, that historically
I've covered Congress for a bunch of local NPR stations and,
you know, regional outlets. So I'm also a board member of the
regional Reporters Association.
Yeah, then I've been teaching at Johns Hopkins for since 2016. I
teach on history, the media history of rhetoric, but with an
eye towards how politicians rhetoric has kind of adapted
with new mediums over time. So yeah, I kind of love covering
Congress, because I get a study lawmaker lawmakers and all that
in real time. But I guess, take a few steps back. I come at
Congress when I say I interview liars for a living. So even
though I know congress, I kind of see through them. And I think
they many of them kind of know it. So that's where I started
this new venture, ask a poll.com. And especially knowing
you know, because I'm a media prof and studying just the gross
numbers. When I think trust in the media now, according to
Gallup, it's, like 50% of Americans don't even distrust
the media, they think reporters are actually actively lying to
them. Which is where I came up with the idea of basketball,
because I want to put the people in the driver's seat. So we call
it the people power press corps. So you all send your questions
in become a part of our community dialogue. And then I
take those questions directly to lawmakers. Which I'm hoping
we'll read some of you all the deep rooted cynicism that's in
me, because I work with the press corps, and I can't say
many of them have impressed me over the years. Some have, but
yeah, I think I've avoided becoming a swamp creature, but
always with your help. And then with the help of the bands I
hang out with, I used to cover entertainment in the past life.
John Greenewald: Okay, and what So then with all of that
background, what got you to UFOs?
Matt Laslo: So that's weird. This one at the start of this
Congress. Remember, we had all these balloons floating over
America. And then after they shot down that Chinese spy
balloon? Well, within a span of three days, the Air Force shot
down three objects. And I guess there's one in Alaska that we
still don't know what it is, which had been pressing senators
Murkowski and Sullivan on to see if they were going to request
actual video that shoot down from the Pentagon because I know
they've been briefed on it. But so That's where the press corps
me included, you know, started looking into this book very
broadly, just that UAPs. But then David Gresh, hit like
symbol, and seeing lawmakers react to him, What especially
one of our first interviews was Marco Rubio, the Vice Chair of
the Senate Intelligence Committee. And what he said is,
you know, we get a ton of these whistleblowers, you know, and
have over the years since he's been here in Washington, but he
said this was the first one that was vetted by the Inspector
General, deemed important and deemed parts verifiable, or
verified. And so seeing Rubio and others reactions to his
claims, and especially what woke up Congress, while David gross
claims there's recovered craft, that the US government has, you
know, that one will be able to hopefully either see the graph
or not, you know, that one should be fairly easy to verify
if we get through all these layers of classification and
government secrecy, but the second claim of grush, that the
government had all these saps or Special Access Programs, that it
kept hidden from Congress, well, that me as a congressional
junkie that made my hair stand up. And I knew that was
something that I could take to every single lawmaker and say,
Hey, this whistleblower who the inspector general, that it
didn't says and threw on Congress's lap, he says the
federal government is lying to you, you know about these saps.
And so many lawmakers still haven't looked into David
grudge. But I'm still confronting all of them with
that claim. You know, so part of it is coming from that
congressional Institutionalists angle. And knowing that this
Congress, like the past Congress, and the one before it,
Congress these days, just seeds, most all of their power to the
executive branch. And, again, professor and a congressional
junkie. And so this issue for one, like, what, the year two
years ago, even like predating the first congressional hearing,
50 years on this, even after that hearing, if you would ask
lawmakers about UFOs or UAPs, you know, they'd laughing You
know, they make a joke out of it. Not so in this Congress. And
so, there's this interesting window that opened, and yeah, I
was there. And I had asked a poll.com lined up. So especially
once I did a Wired magazine piece on, you know, kind of
putting grush in what we call a conspiratorial Congress, you
know, some people, you know, the conspiracies in this Congress
run the gamut. Who would we see testify last week in the house?
RFK, Jr. etc. And so, after that, you know, I got a lot of
pushback from the UFO community, because of the piece was a
little more snarky, but that's because it was, you know,
putting a mirror up to this congress and kind of asking a
question, Will this Congress be taken seriously, even if they do
uncover craft or something like that? And so, yeah, got a front
row seat and seeing you all your energy, your knowledge, saying,
hey, ask these questions. You didn't ask this. But then also
seeing the reaction to, you know, Laszlo snark aside, were
like, I think I interviewed six or eight lawmakers. Usually for
a feature, I'll interview 15 to 20 lawmakers, only eight or 10
make the piece. Sometimes that's been 50. Senators every once in
a while. And so yeah, seeing the energy from the community, and
seeing some members of Congress really take it seriously. But
others just brush it off. That just left me with more
questions.
John Greenewald: Before we get into the specifics of exactly
who you spoke with. You mentioned a couple already. But
what do you think has changed from this Congress to those
past? You mentioned David grush. Is it all hinging on that one
whistleblower, or obviously the UFO conversation has really went
into overdrive in the last five and a half years or so? What
what do you feel has changed that put this kind of on the
docket so to speak?
Matt Laslo: Well, there's this interesting notion of whether
lawmakers are supposed to lead their constituents or whether
they're supposed to be Read by their constituents and it's, you
know, kind of both and, but so this one lawmakers do tend to be
way behind on many issues from their constituents. But I think
the polls are now like 65% or so of Americans are now. I forget
the exact language, but they believe that there's life out
there beyond us. And I think part of that stems from, you
know, us being in this new technological era with
smartphones or seeing a lot more things that aren't easily
explained away. And so yeah, Congress in the last one started
looking into this. And I'm curious, and I want to circle
back with those lawmakers. But I'm curious if that was because
of increased pressure from their constituents. But you definitely
have more lawmakers in this Congress, who are open to the
idea of extraterrestrial beings out there, and it and then even
you couple that with what we're seeing right now come in from
the James Webb Space Telescope. And so like, our very limited
finite understanding of things just got a lot bigger, if still
very limited. And, you know, every week, it seems we're
learning new things about the solar system from the James Webb
Space Telescope. So as our smartphones are collecting more
here on Earth, James Webb is collecting more out there in the
nether regions. And I think it's kind of this perfect combo.
Well, and then you throw grush, into the mix, boom, that's the
perfect combo. For that's three, so not a
John Greenewald: perfect trio. So those that you've talked to,
I know that you've talked to Congressman timbre Chet of
Tennessee, let's let's start there, because he's leading the
charge with this hearing tomorrow. And arguably, he is
the absolute most vocal about a conspiracy and cover up months
ago, I was surprised to see him retweet one of my tweets about
UFOs. Now it's becoming a little bit more common for him to do
that. But just straight out calling it a cover up. I was
surprised by that, because not every day were sitting Congress,
congressman or Congresswoman tweet stuff like that. And
again, now it's becoming more frequent. So let's start with
him. What is your experience been with him? And as somebody
who has covered Congress for so long? What are you What is your
reaction to his feelings about UAP and the importance of this,
this cover up that he wants to highlight
Matt Laslo: her chats this super interesting guy, if you listen
to some of the audio that we posted, we posted, I think,
maybe two interviews with him on Ask a poll.com. And in the
middle of the interview, you know, he'll stop three, four
times, because all of these lawmakers, Republicans and
Democrats are stopping him to say hello. In the last one, I
think it was. Congressman, Jesse Jackson, who I didn't even know
was a congressman, I'm from Illinois, but it's Reverend
Reverend Jesse Jackson, son, perchance, a Republican from
Tennessee. And so to hear Jackson like, stopped him and
for chat said, Hey, thank you so much for checking on me when I
was sick, and then said, hey, when you're down, you better
come down into the south, I want to treat you to some good old
southern barbecue. I was just like, why? You just don't see
that kind of bipartisanship in this Congress. And I think a big
part of that is just the jovial, genteel nature of Bridgette, you
know, he's always cracking jokes. He's got this light side
to him, that is really appreciated in the building
where, you know, where, historically there was a caning
in the building. Now there's, you know, digital death threats
flying between the parties. And so he stands out for that. Who
had a alone with his thoughts on UAPs and UFOs. And so, it's
interesting now to see, you know, as the hearing day
approaches, and last week after their big press conference, you
know, you started hearing a lot more of the mainstream reporters
hop on the issue, kind of looking for looking for
something to embarrass them with? I forget the questions
they were asking. But one reporter was, Well, I think they
were just asking straight up, you know, about aliens or
whatever. And not asking about David grush. You know, and you
can kind of tell I'm curious about grush And what he knows
when I hate the term gotcha journalism or whatever, but the
questions felt leading in a dishonest way. And so it's going
to be interesting to see how her chat and Congresswoman and
appalling Aluna how they handle this. There's also a couple of
Democrats who were going to be at the hearing who are, you
know, fully on board with this. And so it's it'll be
interesting. You know, the interview I, we dropped last
night on ask a poll was with oversight chair James Comer. And
I can't tell like he told me, yeah, I haven't even looked into
David grosses claims at all. And he said, I can't tell if he's
trying to wash his hands of this and say, Hey, this is all on for
Chet and Luna. Or if he thinks there's a there there, you can
tell that, you know, Burrtec complained last week, about
different staffers from the intelligence community, whether
that staffers from Congress from the Intel Committee, I don't
know. But he was complaining that there's just been all this
pressure on this hearing, and that people were getting cold
feet. And so when the lights click on tomorrow, with, you
know, the media from around the globe. In attendance, it'll,
it'll be interesting to see for Warren, the case for Chet moon
and make, and that the witnesses obviously make. And it's gonna
be interesting to see how the media responds to that. Now, it
seems like the dynamics here, like with many dynamics in
Congress, or that the Senate investigations are currently a
little more trusted. Even what Comey himself told me, because,
you know, I asked him about these charges that, you know, go
these far right, Freedom Caucus people are running this hearing.
You know, they're loonies, that that that comer is like, hey,
Chuck Schumer just moved a UAP bill. So even comer himself was
saying, hey, it's not just us. It's not just the friends, right
members. And so Bridgette, says, take it back to him. He's
interesting, because he's not. I wouldn't say he's intellectually
respected or maybe any illogically respected by the
other side of the aisle. You know, this is a hyper, hyper
partisan Congress. But collegially, you know, they love
him. And so there is an innate trust they have with him because
he's been genuine, you know. And so it'll be really interesting
to see how he threads that needle. And this does make me
want to talk to him talking to him. Later today, before we go
live tonight, with dropping some more of our exclusive
interviews, I'm now curious how bro chat first got into this
issue, you know, with Congresswoman Lena, or Luna, she
was Air Force, you know. And so I haven't talked to her about
now she got into it. But you know, you can see what a lot of
the videos coming out are the newer ones that the government
has been releasing, even in the last hearing couple of years
ago, who that's Air Force footage. And so yeah, thanks for
the question for Mr. Burchett. I'll circle back once the
answers.
John Greenewald: Yeah, no. And I'm glad you did. Maybe I'll
throw this out to you if it sparks another question, because
I posted this on social media, but I want to bring it up to
you. I very much am looking forward to the hearing tomorrow.
I want to see what's going on. And we'll talk about whether or
not they made the right decisions in your mind on the
witnesses that they did show did choose. But that being said, the
pushback that the ramp up to this, especially in the last
week has been fascinating for somebody like me to watch,
because I've been in and around this field for a long time. I
deal with all government secrets. But UFOs has always had
kind of a special place in my heart just for a personal
fascination, reason, no experience of my own, but it's
just a curiosity. And the ramp up to this has seen Burchett
have these push backs from NASA when he said NASA backed out of
tomorrow's hearing. And then NASA to my surprise, which I
don't see often anyway, with this topic responded to a friend
of mine, Dan Warren, so props to him who was the question, why
did you back out? And NASA completely said no, we didn't.
That I think it was David Spergel, who was invited, but
declined, which is kind of understandable if they don't
want to get entwined with the the whistleblower talk, I mean,
I can understand that from from their perspective. They're also
not dealing with classified information much in NASA anyway.
So it's, to me it's a faulty scientific study anyway. But
that's a different show. But pushback from NASA, and then
push back from Eglin to where Eglin put out the statement that
said, Well, they're just not cleared to, to hear the
information. So when you hear Burchett, and Congresswoman
Luna, say, we were denied access and got in a fight with the
general, that base fires back and says, Hey, wait a minute,
you guys aren't even cleared. So I'm not saying who's right or
wrong. All I'm saying is it's so fascinating to see play out. And
I want to know, what the congressmen and Congresswoman
are, are essentially going to do with that, because that's
challenging their credibility in an open forum. What are your
thoughts on that? What are your thoughts on the pushback? Do you
think it's all just part of the cover up? Do you think it's
political grandstanding? Is it both?
Matt Laslo: This is the curious one. And it's, you know, so I'm
a congressional reporter, you know, I go to the White House a
couple times a year, but it's a waste of my time, a man of the
people, or something like that, you know, like, the access we
get in Congress, and I know the institution. And that's where a
reporter like me, is going to naturally have to rely on
reporting from, you know, people at the Pentagon who are sourced
their people who are sourced at NASA. And because right now, I
guess I don't have a good answer to that. Because I do not see,
you know, in my 17 years, I can't remember an agency like
NASA, really stepping in it, you know, and calling a congressman
a liar. Publicly like that. So even, I did a triple take last
week, and I'm still in the midst of that triple take it, and
especially with NASA coming out so strong there. Well, now just
per chat, or Luna, say, hey, we want to follow up hearing.
Because it seems like you guys want to talk, you know, you
know, maybe they don't have much to say maybe they do. And so
that's that one was curious. To me. I'm seeing like when
Bridgette told me last week, that the staffers were getting
more involved and that they were, you know, you started to
hear more of the Whisper campaigns, you know, trying to
discredit the investigation in the house, not so much
discrediting the lawmakers, but you'll probably hear it more
will well know. There'll be couched in the terms of AVS to
Freedom Caucus, folks. Whereas these issues don't really have
much to do with that, you know, Freedom Caucus is supposed to be
focused on fiscal issues and stuff like that. And then seeing
some of those other Democrats up there and including Senator
Kirsten Gillibrand. She's been really pushing forward with the
investigation in the Senate. And same with Rubio over there. And
so this one doesn't cut across those normal political lines.
But in the lead up to this hearing, it kind of in the past
week, it's felt like it's the normal partisanship, you know,
Biden administration, you know, Pooh poohing anything coming
from these two fringe rate. Lawmakers. When you take a step
back and in reality, no, it's not to fringe lawmakers. A lot
of lawmakers in this Congress have a lot of questions and the
Pentagon, NASA had not been forthcoming with them in the
past, at least in a satisfactory way to many lawmakers. So I get
the pushback from those agencies. But show us your
cards.
John Greenewald: Yeah, and, and this is we can move on from from
our chat after this. But But one last kind of thing when when
he's coming out with these very bold claims. And I posted
myself, I mean, I've followed the Air Force's connection to
this literally for 2627 years now. Just drilling in through
FOIA, especially with that military branch. What I consider
this massive cover up about the topic, but at the top of the
show, and I'm paraphrasing because I don't remember your
exact quote, you said that you had that you essentially
interview professional liars. That's how you said it right. So
with That's a journalist. What's that?
Matt Laslo: Say I interviewed buyers for living
John Greenewald: liars for a living. So with that being said,
from, from a journalist standpoint and your experience,
you look at these essentially warring factions at this point,
you know, it's a war of words, but, but they're butting heads
like this in a public forum on Twitter, for the most part, how
do you know really? who to believe? Do you push the
military brands to show their cards? Do you push the
politicians to maybe step up a little bit more and say, hey,
look, NASA fired back at you to show us how they backed out? Did
they confirm? And then say, you know, what, never mind or did
somebody intervene? The one that I'm stuck on is is Bridget's
claim about the Pentagon giving pushback on witnesses that and
correct me if I'm wrong, I took away from that, that he had
other people that he wanted to appear, the Pentagon pushed
back, they they essentially lost those one or two, or however
many people but have graves forever. And Grusha at this
point. So again, correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm most
intrigued by that. Who do you as a journalist push back on the
hardest to try and show their cards and kind of prove what's
being said?
Matt Laslo: All of them. Whether it's the agencies who are, you
know, they're they have their fiefdoms and more money, and
they want to protect. What because it's power play, you
know, even though we're seeing this with classified
information, you know, whoever has most secrets or whatever,
you know, there's power that comes with that. This one's
interesting, because I don't, you know, the interview we put
out last night with comer. He kind of again, washed his hands
of it and said, Oh, I think projets now gotten everyone he
wanted, when, like a month ago, comer told me that two witnesses
who per chat wanted, didn't pass his committee's, you know, more
political background check. And so I'm still a little confused
on this one as to whether Burchett has everything he
wants? Because it doesn't seem like he does, but then you have
chair comer saying, you know, head of the whole Oversight
Committee, saying, Yeah, you know, we gave him every one he
wanted it one interesting thing when I was first getting into
this, just like a month ago, I heard her chat on. Steve Bannon
is the war room, talking about oh, and what he said then stood
out to me, because he said, his feeling was that him and Luna
only have one shot on this. And so he made it seem like, at
least initially, they were just granted one hearing on this. And
so that's, you know, all your marbles. We'll see how tomorrow
goes. Because just knowing how the public is hungry for
answers. And even what playing this tonight on our live
listening session, but Adam Schiff, you know, he got booted
off the Senate and her party got booted off the House
Intelligence Committee. But so he hasn't really been able to
look into grush. But he's still got big questions about these
phenomenon. And you know, he was just the head of the House
Intelligence Committee. So the fact that he's curious, he had
all this classified information, but still has questions and not
answers. That makes me think that Pentagon people in those
communities aren't being forthcoming. Now, whether that's
a National Security claim, or whatever, or whether it's
actually them, covering this stuff up and keeping it secret
from Congress. It seems like this Congress is really set on
putting a period of putting a fine point on that debate. So
that at least by the end of this, we'll know, it seems we'll
know where the secrets are. And hopefully, they'll be public by
then. You know, because it seems like right now in Congress,
there's a couple of different full court presses are going on.
Senate side House side, but then also Intelligence Committee and
armed services committees exploring it and so intelligence
committee is going to be different than Armed Services
Committee. Armed Services is more focused on war and the
Pentagon On an machinery of war, all that stuff. And so,
Intelligence Committee, they have a broader portfolio, they
also know a lot more secrets, and are also held to a higher
standard. They know a lot of stuff that they're not allowed
to tell us. And so that's again why Senator Gillibrand is an
interesting one to watch, because she's on both the Armed
Services Committee and the Senate Intelligence Committee.
So she's kind of got a foot in both worlds.
John Greenewald: Did it surprise you at all that, and you
mentioned comer, he kind of washed his hands of it that
these lawmakers don't have more of a clue. I know some of them
do and follow it pretty closely. But when you talk about the
claims of David grush, you are talking about humanity altering
world changing information, that would have an impact not only on
our knowledge about our place in the universe, but so much more.
I mean, the implications are absolutely staggering. So does
it surprise you that more aren't leading the charge?
Matt Laslo: Yes, and no. It's rare that you see, you know,
lawmakers kind of have their fiefdoms, you know, some might
be tax long. So they're going to be on the Ways and Means
Committee, you know, you're a farmer boom and serve on the
Agriculture Committee. You have a lot, it kind of annoys us in
the press corps. Because you have a lot of lawmakers who it
almost feels like, they put blinders on just so they don't
have to talk to us, you know, whether it's about what former
President Trump is doing over here, or, you know, whether it's
what Hunter Biden's doing over here, you know, so they, some
lawmakers really stay in their lanes. But again, that's why
this issue
stood out to me, because hey, I think it's Rubio who says, you
know, either he's got either grush was given bad information,
or
pardon my French, but Wake the fuck up. Like, these are seismic
claims. And the fact that the Inspector General, vetted them,
sent them to Congress, that puts them at another level, where?
Yeah, maybe it has surprised me a little bit to see I mean, cuz
you were going to talk about it. But Congress is about to be gone
after this week, for the whole month of August. So one thing
I've been doing is trying to interview every United States
senator on UAPs. who oppose and David grush, in particular, so
I've now talked over 60% of senators, and the vast majority
of them seem totally unaware, it seems like I'm kind of the first
person to mention it to them, or they had heard about it, but
hadn't really looked into it. Now, the people, hopefully by
the end of this week, I'll have well, hopefully, I'll have all
the senators, but I only have two members left on the Senate
Intelligence Committee, still the interviewer looking for you,
Michael Bennett, and Dianne Feinstein. But
John Greenewald: the solid fans of this show, so you're in your
good shot.
Matt Laslo: Oh, and so I'm curious, because some members in
the Senate Intelligence Committee, who was it? Why one
can equipped but he's like, Well, if I knew that I couldn't
tell you could have been TELUS or one of them. Who had so it's,
it's interesting. And with some of the Senate Intel members, you
kind of get the feeling that they know some things that
they're not allowed to tell us. So I'm curious if pressure
builds on them on the broader intelligence community, where,
you know, if pressure builds on Congress from the public,
Congress is going to keep demanding more and more answers.
And so there might be things that are classified now, that
may become unclassified in the near future. And I'm curious how
this one plays out. Because even though you have many lawmakers
playing ostrich, you know, tossing their head in the sand.
You got some of the most powerful lawmakers, especially
in the Senate, investigating this and so we'll see there's
definitely a clash going on here. Between the intel
community and your congress.
John Greenewald: Going backwards, I think you said it
was a comer interview where he said that they kind of had one
shot was that comer that said that
Matt Laslo: Burchett said it to Steve Bannon. But he made it
seem like that was coming from comer slash coming from Speaker
McCarthy.
John Greenewald: Gotcha. So they have like one shot to kind of
prove this if they're going to devote more time in the future
with that,
Matt Laslo: and that's for this Congress. And, again, that's
where like if they hit home run or you know, get a triple
tomorrow, we might see another one. Especially looking at those
poll numbers 65% of the American people have? Well, I think they
have an answer, but you know, they want to know more.
John Greenewald: Now, I want to say real quick, just to make
sure that those on the audio version of this know, you've
said your website a few times, I've flashed it on screen for
those watching on YouTube. But it's ask a poll.com that spelled
a SKAPO l.com. So make sure you've got the one L in there.
And there's tons of of articles here to read. And the one thing
I haven't mentioned is a lot of these are exclusive just to your
reporting, you're not parroting from the the other news
agencies, you are the one getting these recordings, you're
putting them online. So again, kudos to you for that. So back
to the witnesses for tomorrow, if it is that one shot? Do you
feel with everything that you've done and writing the articles
that are on your website? And so many exclusives, you're
obviously doing your homework? Is this a setup for a potential
home run? Or do you feel there should have been other people in
the hot seat, even those currently in government that may
have given them more of that home run versus a base hit?
Matt Laslo: And this is where this one's interesting. And I'm
a journalist and 2023. My thoughts don't matter. If
anything I get in the way
that this one's super curious. Because, again, you have the
Senate and the House investigations. Not quite I
mean, they're going in tandem, but not together. No, they're
going parallel, but not in tandem. And so it seems like the
house their investigation is much broader. And Congresswoman
Luna, she tells me that, you know, she hopes this hearing
presents to the American people prove that there is life out
there beyond Earth. Now, you wouldn't hear any senators say
that. You might have some senators kind of thinking that.
And so it's interesting that the house, their case is going to be
broader. Your team, it seems like they're going to give a
little more history into past government programs, exploring
UFOs and whatnot. And some people are asking us that ask a
poll like hey, oh, just for chatting them Do they have any
plan to subpoena? The people who corroborate David grush, the
whistleblower story? Well, Senator Gillibrand in the
Intelligence Committee in the Senate, her investigation would
actually go through the Armed Services Committee, where she's
the chairwoman of one of the subcommittee's overseeing this.
Well, she's told me that she wants to hear grush and the
other people named in that first story by the debrief were
crushed came out. That one will be interesting. And that's
actually my question for Gillibrand tonight or this week.
I'm curious if she's got a plan for hearing, and if she still
wants to crush and the other people mentioned in that article
that seem to corroborate his story. Now, it seems like what
we have in the house tomorrow is grush. And not so much people
corroborating his story. But corroborating the broader story,
you know, and so that's where I think having a divided Congress
is great.
John Greenewald: Yeah, I can agree with that. Just to clarify
with this, the those named in the debrief article, is she
going for the ones that were truly feeding grush the
information, or there were two that were mentioned in the
debrief Article One was anonymous, but went through or
was listed with a pseudonym. I think that was Jonathan Gray,
but that was that was a false name. And then the other one, I
think the last name was Nell I forget the first name but that
being said, was she talking about Then, or was she talking
about truly getting to the root of where grush heard about the
non human craft and the non human dead pilots that he
referenced?
Matt Laslo: The way I read it? And again, I'll circle back with
her? That's a great question. The way I read it was, she
wanted those people immediately tied to grush. And mentioned in
the article, or who spoke in the article, and corroborated his
story. But then, you know, if Congress does its job, you know,
you keep pulling threads. And so I think, the way I understood it
was, hey, once we get him, you know, if we don't see anything,
and you know, and we get verifiable good testimony from
these folks, then hey, we want to keep going. And I think
that's where I could see it, broadening out, but I think
jeweler Brandon them want to start with, you know, just start
small with what you can prove, and then slowly build your case
and work, work your way out from there. But I'm not a senator. So
there's a lot of stuff that I'm not privy to.
John Greenewald: No, no. And I appreciate your your your
expertise and feedback on it, because we're all kind of
learning together, about how this is playing out. And the one
thing that concerns me is something actually that you that
you really just briefly touched on. But as they they start
small, and they kind of you know, branch out more and more.
What worries me is that there are term limits to the senators
and politicians both term limits as Max as they can go. But also
they may get voted out. With that being said, what my worry
is, is this takes forever with anything government related
takes forever. But with with politicians, you know, they want
to do these hearings, and then six months, a year, year and a
half later, they'll do another one. It worries me that the
people that really are the driving force here, they could
be gone by that. And you lose that, that that motivation to do
this. So how much if any, how much does that impact all this?
Matt Laslo: I hear that 100% And this we're I'm constantly
playing devil's advocate, but on counter to that could be paid.
Harry Reid's been gone from the Senate for a long time. But what
we saw last week with Schumer and Gillibrand young in rounds,
and you know, that six group, well, they push through and got
included in the National Defense Authorization Act, or NDAA. They
got included in that. A measure that Harry Reid, you know, very
much close to his heart, you know, a bill demanding,
basically, full transparency, it seems on UAPs, their chosen
term. And so that's where, oh, in Chuck Schumer, the majority
leader, his office told me that, you know, the inspiration for
that measure wasn't David grush inspiration for that was Harry
Reid, you know, in his legacy. And so that's where sometimes
you do see members pass the baton. Sometimes that's within
their delegation, but honestly, I haven't seen yet Jackie Rosen.
She, the senator, one of the senators from Nevada, and then
Catherine Cortez Masto. Neither of them were really too familiar
with crush Rosen, at the end of our interview, or later that
day, she found in she goes, Well, now that you alerted me to
this gruff guy, she goes, I'm gonna have some interesting
reading tonight when I get home. And so that's where sometimes
you see that baton passed within a delegation or, you know, if a
Democrat passes the seat to a Democrat, or vice versa,
Republican to a Republican, but then also, you see it just not
within state delegations. Sometimes there's someone else
in Congress who maybe wanted to be at the forefront of the
issue. But maybe right now, they're a freshman lawmaker, and
they're kind of waiting to see what happens in tomorrow's
hearing. And so that's where I hear you and you Yeah, you raise
a good point on why to be a little pessimistic. Because the
people who are out in front of this issue are louder and seem
more knowledgeable than we've seen in the past.
But then maybe there's a little hope for optimism that they can
share that wealth, for lack of a better term.
John Greenewald: The one thing that I wanted to ask you just
again, because you're on the ground there. The last UAP
hearing with the Senate and Kirsten Gillibrand was obviously
there the whole time. There was one other senator a third had
shown up asked a question then left. I was really let down at
one It appeared to be to the general public, a lack of
interest. There was rumors, but I mean, we can't confirm it. At
least the general public can't at this point that more people
showed up to the classified briefing that happened right
prior. And that's, that's fine for the classified hearing. And
that's fine. But if they truly are the voice of the people, I
would hope that they would want to show up at the public
hearing, get as much information for for their constituents as
possible. So with that said, what's the rumblings on who's
going to show tomorrow? Like, I mean, are a lot of people
telling you that should be showing up are going to show up?
Have you? Have you even explored that at all?
Matt Laslo: haven't totally explored it, but the house tends
to be different, and even for tomorrow, sounds like I
confirmed, you know, the chair, James Comer told me that he
plans to be there because he wants to learn about the issue.
And comer gave them the huge massive oversight hearing room,
even though it's a subcommittee investigating this, they're
getting the big hearing room, which makes me think, you know,
especially with all the cameras that are going to be there and
all the media from across the US, but then across the globe,
you would think that many members would want to come for
that. But also, that's just kind of the nature of the house and
how they work. The Senate. They just historically, and even
today, they tend to respond less quickly to what the people are
thinking, you know, part of that it's the way the Founders
intended it giving them six year terms. Which, you know, one
could argue, oh, they're becoming experts on the issues
under their purview, which would help for this issue with some of
those folks on these committees. But I'm curious if you didn't
hold that same hearing. today. If you wouldn't have a fuller,
or at least more people come in and sit on that Dyess. Because
remember, just two years ago, this was so novel and new hadn't
been done in 50 years. And so yeah, most news outlets were
leading with, you know, not funny X file jokes, you know,
jokes that they thought were funny that no one else did. And
so that's where you're starting to see the issue taken more
seriously in Congress, but then also outside of it. And I am
kind of intrigued on how you know, what the headlines are,
after tomorrow's hearing. And I think that could have a pretty
big impact on what the Senate does, or how many people would
show up to publicly attached their name to this. Yeah. And
we'll see, I think that's one that only time will tell. And I
think, you know, even though the media, the press corps isn't
going to be up on the Dyess. I think we play a pretty big role
in this. And I think Thus far, we've largely done a disservice.
John Greenewald: This may be a real dumb question. I just don't
know the answer. Is there a list or is it publicized on what
media outlets are approved to attend? Because because there is
an approval process? Right. Not really,
Matt Laslo: like So technically, I have my own Bureau, the Lazlo
congressional Bureau LCB. So I just emailed and asked to RSVP
share. suspicious package. Oh, I'll clear. So yeah, I haven't
heard back from them yet. But glad that suspicious package is
cleaned up. And so we'll see. Even like my usual thing, I
don't even want to be inside the hearing room. All like listen to
it. But then I started
John Greenewald: Did you say you do want to be or don't want to
be? I don't want to be
Matt Laslo: I stand in the hallway listening to it on C
span. And then when lawmakers leave, that's when I asked them
in 21 questions as follow ups to their questions for the
witnesses. Yeah, that's what I've been doing for 17 years and
John Greenewald: you just made the UFO community happy that's
camping out as we speak outside of the room, hoping to get a
seat because there's a lot of rumors that they're not even
going to get a seat but so yeah, I'm kind of surprised to hear
that you stay out in the hallway. But now I totally
understand why. So we don't know.
Matt Laslo: I'll pop in and I'll take some notes because I'm a
feature writer. So I always take notes like what color ties folks
are wearing, you know Get a picture when the witnesses come
in and then kind of get a picture of the media frenzy. Get
a sense of it. Yeah, I I'm sitting in a seat, neutered for
lack of a better term. You know, I got my microphone, I want to
use that.
John Greenewald: No, that's That's seriously commendable.
That's, that's awesome. That's awesome to hear. With
Matt Laslo: C span makes it happen, because then I can hear
them.
John Greenewald: Yeah, yeah. And for those who don't know, if you
don't watch C span, they're also broadcasting. And I'm gonna put
it in the show notes link below. Not only will Matt's website be
in there, and some of the articles that we've touched on,
there's tons of stuff though, please go check out his website,
ask a poll.com. You can see it on your screen there. If you're
listening to the audio, it's as K pol.com. And again, check out
all of his exclusives because he really has been killing it
lately. So I I'm gonna, this will probably be one of the last
questions here as we round third on the interview, and I want you
back in the field rather than talking to me, because it's an
important day. Tomorrow, obviously, we're on the eve of
it. So get as much as you can out there. But I think Matt, the
journalists probably wouldn't want to answer this. But Matt,
my friend now, what do you expect tomorrow? What's your
prediction on when you're listening on C span in the
hallway? What do you think's going to happen during the
hearing? And what do you think the immediate reaction is going
to be to the general public?
Matt Laslo: I in this even includes Professor Laszlo. I
gave up on all predictions when Donald Trump won the GOP primary
in 2016. I come from a family of conservatives. And I'm like,
Well, I got that one wrong. And so we'll see I definitely
expecting a lot of snark, from some members of the media. We're
already starting to see that on the Twitter's or exes, or
whatever, we're calling it these days. Yeah. Social media, we're
starting to see that. Um, I definitely expect Luna in her
chat to come out. Very prepared to make a definitive argument.
Now. We'll see if they can back it up. And the question for that
is, how much are they allowed to back it up? You know, because we
hear about the briefing, they got that they had to demand down
in Florida, where, you know, Mac aids, and then they say, you
know, and Luna and Bridgette they say they saw videos are
whatever of craft that could not be human according to their
knowledge. I'm so curious, are we the American people going to
be allowed to see any new footage or anything like that?
Or are they going to be hampered? In how much of the
case they can actually bring to the American people, you know,
and so, with that, I just don't know, they're going to
definitely push the envelope in. In his they're going to want to
release as much as they can. Now, the game might be rigged
from the get go. So well, you
John Greenewald: know, just to add to that, I mean, my two
cents if it's even worth that, I wouldn't expect any type of
visuals whatsoever, because, sadly, Congress is not a release
authority. You need somebody like a Kirkpatrick or somebody
in there that can spearhead that that release authority movement
to get a new video out there. But
Matt Laslo: true. This is 2023. Congress doesn't have a hearing
without a visual aid and some kind. So yeah, we're enough.
Maybe the replay the old videos, we'll see. But even this week,
you know, clicking around, there's a lot of footage out
there that I don't think the American public has seen, you
know, we might have seen it. Some of it in the last hearing.
We might, personally you me and others, and UFO Twitter
community, we might have seen it, but that's where I'm curious
how much the actual American public and seen on this and so
who knows, pop your popcorn if you got it,
John Greenewald: but yeah, no, that's exactly right. And the I
know I said last question, but if I can just throw in one more.
Do you have you heard rumblings that and before I asked this, we
haven't really talked about it and I want to stress the
importance of the two witnesses. We keep talking about grush but
obviously Ryan Graves and David Fraser are both important voices
in this. I don't have anything bad about the bad to say about
their testimony. I think it's great to get it on the record. I
don't expect anything new from them only because they have done
their rounds of media interviews, and so on and so
forth. But I want to make sure that I add that into the show
because we haven't really touched on them at all. Their
voice is incredibly important.
Matt Laslo: See, I'm a reporter. So the question to you, are you
Did it surprise you to see those two witnesses alongside Gresh?
John Greenewald: Or did? Yeah.
Matt Laslo: Right. Why is that?
John Greenewald: So, and again, this has to be prefaced with
their voices are incredibly important. Yeah. However, for
those who have paid attention, and even just a small amount of
attention, both individuals have done their rounds on media
interviews, I don't think there's really any reason to
doubt them. I don't think that there's any reason that they
have to be under oath, but rather maybe submitted
statements to support what I felt should be a more of a
bigger hearing grush, I don't have a big what's the right word
I'm looking for, like, like, a big problem with I don't know if
that's the right way to say it. Not that I have a problem with
the other two, but we've heard it and I think that if they are
going for the home run, I would have loved to have seen, you
know, again, grush, but bring in somebody else that's supporting
him that that that told him the information. And let me just
quickly say, why the dotser review process of of grush, who
approved the, at least we're led to believe this approved him
speaking about dead non human pilots about non human craft,
and everything that he says we are led to believe that he
cleared it with Doctor, that's not an endorsement, but rather
that there's no classified information there. So then bring
somebody in who had that firsthand. You know, I saw that
that non human dead body or I work next door to whatever the
story is, and I'm not trying to make light of it, but like,
whatever it fill in the blank, that's who I would have liked to
have seen. So again, not taking away from David forever, or Ryan
Graves. They're awesome individuals. I'm glad that their
voices and faiths are out there, and they need to be. But I think
with a hearing like this, and you nailed it, that this is what
you heard anyway. So wherever the true source of this should
be a home run, that nails that, and I feel that this issue
deserves at that home run the Grand Slam. And it's not that
those two individuals won't give it. It's just they won't get
anything new. And I'll close the thought with this a lot of the
rebuttal that I keep seeing to that, because I have voice that
opinion here in the last week or so. The rebuttal is we have to
start somewhere. We have to we have to build a base and branch
out from that. My response to that, if I may, is that we have
been there. We have built the foundation now for a couple of
years. It started in 2021. With the UAP report. We know pilots
are seeing them and military training exercises and military
operation areas that information that foundation is there, no one
can can refute that. So it's great that Ryan Graves and David
favor are there and their voice is in the mix. Don't get me
wrong. But we're reinforcing something that we already
established in 2021. We need to take that next step, hit those
people that grush was talking to hit even grush under oath with a
few more pointed questions, and go from there. But that's what
I've liked to see not to go off on a tangent. This is about you
mad I'm not me. That's my reaction.
Matt Laslo: And this is where to take it back to to be questioned
for years. But this is where maybe it was six. But it'll be
interesting. Because again, we have the Senate side. And so I'm
curious. I mean, we're gonna ask for chat now. I'm curious what
their calculation was, and whether they were thinking, Oh,
hey, let's paint the broader picture of grush there, and then
when the Senate has their hearing, you know, they'll
connect the dots more especially with Luna which she was telling
me made it seem like she really wanted to get the American
people more up to speed on some of these conversations that are
probably settled in UFO Twitter for lack of a better term. And
so who knows a lot of times we think all these steps for
lawmakers and then it turns out like Nope, this is what they
did. You know, these are the people who read time. So
John Greenewald: you could absolutely be right that they're
trying to lay the foundation and and inform the American people I
think maybe I'm in the not to say it's the right or wrong
mindset but more in the mindset that they've had they meaning
the American people have had their chance to pay attention to
the 25,000 news articles. And and news broke podcasts and, you
know, going a little bit broader with the podcasts and stuff like
that. But I mean, mainstream media has covered this a lot.
For me, I'm in that mindset that, hey, if you're not paying
attention yet, then you're probably just not paying
attention, you know, let's move on, for those that have paid
attention. Because if there is something to Grusha his claims,
if there's something to that, let's not give the foundation
yet again, about pilot seeing this, that foundation is laid,
let's drive this home. And that's, that's where I'm at. We
can only hope
Matt Laslo: grush, for lack of a better terms, the shiny objects
of the day, because he's the shiny frickin object. You know,
and I think they have a lot to deal with just with him and his
claims. But, hey, I'm not a member of Congress is I don't
want to be for one. But also, I don't think I could ever get
enough people to vote for me. So I got no dog in this. But just
John Greenewald: I bet I bet there's at least one or two
watching this video that absolutely would vote for you.
So Joking aside, though I My sincere compliments for your
journalism, for going out there for getting the story for not
sitting at your desk and just kind of writing whatever. So
much respect for that, man, I really do appreciate your angle
and you pushing for answers. But obviously your time today. So
thank you for that.
Matt Laslo: I've been talking about seven miles a day chasing
these lawmakers. They're only in like three days this week, and
then they're gone on next month. So
John Greenewald: they're pulling the heavy work week again,
Matt Laslo: talking about like 5060 interviews a day, this
topic and then others as well. Oh, in all those interviews with
the senators, they're going to slowly or a certain point, it
will be a waterfall, but they're going to start dropping very
regularly, once Congress leaves for the month of month of
August. So stay tuned. Your lawmakers should be on the list.
John Greenewald: Ask a poll.com is the website Matt Laszlo is
the investigative journalist and Professor extraordinaire. I want
to make sure that we plug this tonight if you are watching the
premiere of this on the blackfalds channel, make sure
that shortly after on Matt's discord correct. So you can get
more information on this on his website. But on your discord
channel. Give everybody a rundown. So they will come from
this interview to you over there. What are you going to be
doing? Yeah,
Matt Laslo: we're going to be we're calling them listening
sessions. But again, because I have all these raw interviews,
you know, raw exclusive interviews with so many members
of Congress. It it's easier because I have a day job writing
for a handful of magazines and whatnot. I'm like, oh, it's
easier in real time just to play some of the new audio live for
you all. And so Congressman timbre Chet is promised me an
exclusive today. If you're gonna happen at tonight's house, vote
at 630. Or give me a call. So we're gonna have fresh stuff
from him and from some of these questions, and then also gonna
play some fresh, never before heard Adam Schiff tape, and then
also Senator Mike rounds. People had questions about why. What
was the term they use? 19 times and Schumer's? UAP. Bill, non
human intelligence, human intelligence. Yeah. So we have
one of Schumer's co authors, Senator Mike rounds explaining
why they use the term nonhuman intelligence, which to give a
tease on it, he says does encompass AI?
John Greenewald: That's awesome. That's very, very cool. Well,
I'm gonna definitely try and tune in myself to that. Make
sure you check out the website again, ask a poll.com. You'll be
able to see all the details about joining that discord
channel and the live chat tonight. Matt, thank you again
for your time. Get out there into the field. Get some more
audio for all of us, because we're, we're lapping it up, man.
We really do appreciate it.
Matt Laslo: I take orders. Yes, sir.
John Greenewald: Very good, Matt. Thanks again. And thank
you all for listening and watching. This is John
Greenewald, Jr, signing off, and we'll see you next time.