1 00:00:01,230 --> 00:00:03,990 John Greenewald: Some call it the UFO leak of the century. 2 00:00:06,090 --> 00:00:11,940 Others refer to it as the Wilson Davis documents. And some just 3 00:00:11,940 --> 00:00:18,630 call it a downright hoax. These 15 pages, which were uploaded by 4 00:00:18,630 --> 00:00:21,690 an anonymous account to a popular image sharing site, 5 00:00:22,020 --> 00:00:25,890 Chronicle a secret meeting in Las Vegas, where a massive cover 6 00:00:25,890 --> 00:00:29,760 up was revealed by a former high ranking military intelligence 7 00:00:29,760 --> 00:00:35,580 official. As the story goes, Admiral Thomas Wilson met with 8 00:00:35,580 --> 00:00:39,750 physicist Dr. Eric W. Davis. And it was during this meeting that 9 00:00:39,750 --> 00:00:43,590 the admiral revealed secret alien technology being tested 10 00:00:43,590 --> 00:00:48,900 within the private sector. We do Wilson, a former j to director 11 00:00:48,900 --> 00:00:52,080 for intelligence and the Joint Chiefs of Staff said that 12 00:00:52,080 --> 00:00:55,860 although he verified that the alien tech was real, and hidden 13 00:00:55,860 --> 00:00:59,820 within the private sector, he was denied access to it. And his 14 00:00:59,820 --> 00:01:04,920 career was threatened if he continued to pursue it. At least 15 00:01:05,040 --> 00:01:10,050 that's the story as revealed in these notes. But is any of it 16 00:01:10,050 --> 00:01:13,440 real? Or is this all an elaborate work of fiction, 17 00:01:13,770 --> 00:01:20,550 concocted by an unknown hoax arias. My guest today believes 18 00:01:20,550 --> 00:01:24,120 this document leak represents an extremely important and 19 00:01:24,120 --> 00:01:27,420 potentially groundbreaking situation that was never 20 00:01:27,420 --> 00:01:31,980 supposed to be seen by the public. His name is Jay. And he 21 00:01:31,980 --> 00:01:37,290 runs project unity. Jay aims to build what he calls an 22 00:01:37,290 --> 00:01:41,160 intellectual space for the free flow of ideas on disruptive 23 00:01:41,160 --> 00:01:44,970 issues, from physics to metaphysics, theology, and 24 00:01:44,970 --> 00:01:50,370 philosophy. And it is within this platform where he has spent 25 00:01:50,400 --> 00:01:54,870 hours upon hours creating video content on all sorts of topics, 26 00:01:55,140 --> 00:02:00,150 including the Wilson Davis documents, and he believes they 27 00:02:00,150 --> 00:02:05,970 very well may be real. What evidence is there that makes him 28 00:02:05,970 --> 00:02:09,780 think that's a possibility? Well, we're about to find out 29 00:02:09,780 --> 00:02:14,190 together. Stay tuned. You're about to journey inside the 30 00:02:14,190 --> 00:02:15,030 black vault. 31 00:02:40,020 --> 00:02:42,570 That's right, everybody. As always, thank you so much for 32 00:02:42,570 --> 00:02:45,870 tuning in and making this your podcast or your live stream of 33 00:02:45,870 --> 00:02:48,810 choice. I'm your host, john Greenwald, Jr, founder and 34 00:02:48,810 --> 00:02:52,860 creator of the black vault calm. And today, I'm revisiting a 35 00:02:52,860 --> 00:02:56,010 topic that I've done a couple videos on, talked to a couple 36 00:02:56,010 --> 00:02:59,790 guests about, and well, I kind of lean towards maybe these 37 00:02:59,790 --> 00:03:03,600 documents just aren't genuine. But my guest today, I think it's 38 00:03:03,600 --> 00:03:08,370 safe to say, feels quite differently than I do. Now. Jay, 39 00:03:08,490 --> 00:03:12,600 from project unity, thank you so much for taking the time joining 40 00:03:12,600 --> 00:03:17,430 me in my audience. I'm always always always eager to challenge 41 00:03:17,430 --> 00:03:19,980 what I put out there. And I want to make sure my audience has all 42 00:03:19,980 --> 00:03:22,770 of the information. So thank you for taking the time today. 43 00:03:23,309 --> 00:03:26,369 Jay: Oh, thank you for inviting me, john, you know, I, I really 44 00:03:26,369 --> 00:03:29,249 do appreciate an opportunity to have a sensible conversation 45 00:03:29,249 --> 00:03:32,129 about this. And, you know, I think some of your listeners 46 00:03:32,129 --> 00:03:33,959 will be aware of the fact that you and I have had some 47 00:03:33,959 --> 00:03:36,629 disagreements on the Wilson documents in the past in a 48 00:03:36,629 --> 00:03:40,109 public format. And, and I'll be the first to admit that I didn't 49 00:03:40,109 --> 00:03:44,069 always keep my call on Twitter, which is difficult. But I just 50 00:03:44,069 --> 00:03:46,469 want to say that, you know, regardless of differences 51 00:03:46,469 --> 00:03:50,399 between us with the the Wilson documents, I've always respected 52 00:03:50,399 --> 00:03:52,439 what you've done with the black vault. It's an incredible 53 00:03:52,439 --> 00:03:56,069 library of information, you know, really is and yeah, I'm 54 00:03:56,069 --> 00:03:57,839 looking forward to this, I think we're gonna have a productive 55 00:03:57,839 --> 00:04:00,569 conversation. So again, thank you for inviting me. 56 00:04:00,930 --> 00:04:02,520 John Greenewald: It's my pleasure. And thankfully, I 57 00:04:02,520 --> 00:04:05,550 always keep my cool on Twitter. So I know I'm kidding. 58 00:04:06,000 --> 00:04:10,800 Obviously, I have fallen in the trenches. I've fallen into those 59 00:04:10,800 --> 00:04:14,730 trenches too, so I get it No worries. But what where I where 60 00:04:14,730 --> 00:04:18,540 I want to start is obviously a little bit of your background 61 00:04:18,540 --> 00:04:22,470 what I must say up front is that I truly appreciate and which is 62 00:04:22,470 --> 00:04:26,220 why I wanted to invite Yon to talk about this topic is that 63 00:04:26,220 --> 00:04:30,660 you seem so genuine and passionate about what you do and 64 00:04:30,660 --> 00:04:33,720 and really digging in which I can appreciate and that's where 65 00:04:33,720 --> 00:04:36,270 I felt that we would have a great conversation so that's 66 00:04:36,270 --> 00:04:39,600 where I want to start is your background you started project 67 00:04:39,600 --> 00:04:43,860 unity. Tell everybody who is not aware of it. What exactly is 68 00:04:43,860 --> 00:04:44,220 that? 69 00:04:44,820 --> 00:04:47,460 Jay: Yeah, well, I mean, it all just, you know, I could have 70 00:04:47,460 --> 00:04:50,370 never predicted that I would end up doing this to be honest. You 71 00:04:50,370 --> 00:04:54,300 know, I just kind of fell into this because and there's a 72 00:04:54,330 --> 00:04:58,440 there's a long backstory really to me starting project unity and 73 00:04:58,470 --> 00:05:01,110 a lot of it does come down to the more Consciousness related 74 00:05:01,110 --> 00:05:04,620 issues of the phenomenon. And, you know, I have had my own 75 00:05:05,220 --> 00:05:09,390 experiences I haven't ever had, you know, communications or 76 00:05:09,390 --> 00:05:11,520 downloads, but I have had experiences that have seen 77 00:05:11,520 --> 00:05:15,960 things in the sky and and that really did actually catalyze my 78 00:05:15,960 --> 00:05:18,690 interest in wanting to dive into this subject. And I've only been 79 00:05:18,690 --> 00:05:22,020 around for a few years, I started paying attention around 80 00:05:22,020 --> 00:05:24,960 2017, like a lot of people, you know, when the New York Times 81 00:05:24,960 --> 00:05:28,650 story came out, and things started to pick up the pace, so 82 00:05:28,650 --> 00:05:31,350 I've only been invested in this for a short period of time. But 83 00:05:31,350 --> 00:05:34,770 within that time, I've been very fortunate, you know, I put out a 84 00:05:34,770 --> 00:05:37,050 couple of it was actually funnily enough the Wilson 85 00:05:37,050 --> 00:05:40,200 documents that springboarded me into having an ability to 86 00:05:40,200 --> 00:05:42,840 network with a few different people. Because before then I 87 00:05:42,840 --> 00:05:46,920 was just uploading random things that I felt were important. And 88 00:05:46,920 --> 00:05:49,740 I was doing a few different little videos just me basically 89 00:05:49,740 --> 00:05:53,160 in the forest far away from civilization talking about this 90 00:05:53,160 --> 00:05:56,880 stuff to a camera, because I just didn't want to be overheard 91 00:05:56,910 --> 00:06:00,300 talking about this kind of issue at the beginning. But it 92 00:06:00,300 --> 00:06:03,360 evolved, you know, I was lucky enough to get interested in the 93 00:06:03,360 --> 00:06:07,350 Wilson documents. And I actually put out a little trailer for for 94 00:06:07,350 --> 00:06:09,900 kind of a project that I was thinking of doing, which I'm 95 00:06:09,900 --> 00:06:12,870 actually still in the plans of making. And it's starting to 96 00:06:12,870 --> 00:06:15,810 develop and adapt a little more than when I first decided to 97 00:06:15,810 --> 00:06:19,260 make it but I put out this trailer and Richard Dolan and a 98 00:06:19,260 --> 00:06:22,950 few other people to notice that. And weirdly enough, that was 99 00:06:22,950 --> 00:06:25,470 where I managed to get my foot in the door of connecting with a 100 00:06:25,470 --> 00:06:28,890 few different people. And, sorry, let me just get a drink 101 00:06:28,890 --> 00:06:32,730 of water. Because I'm talking very quickly, no worries, I just 102 00:06:32,730 --> 00:06:38,640 want to make sure I don't fall over my words, no worries. So 103 00:06:38,640 --> 00:06:40,950 always the same when I start off whenever I'm interviewing 104 00:06:40,950 --> 00:06:43,590 someone or being interviewed, I always find that I'm talking too 105 00:06:43,590 --> 00:06:48,180 quickly. Now you're doing great. But I'm yet to get back to it. 106 00:06:48,210 --> 00:06:51,990 Essentially, I was I was able to get in contact with Ralph 107 00:06:51,990 --> 00:06:54,870 Blumenthal and Leslie Kane. And that's because of a colleague of 108 00:06:54,870 --> 00:06:58,020 mine that Richard Dolan introduced me to, who had a lot 109 00:06:58,020 --> 00:07:00,480 of knowledge on the Wilson documents. And we put together 110 00:07:00,480 --> 00:07:03,990 this kind of big breakdown. And literally within 24 hours of 111 00:07:03,990 --> 00:07:07,410 doing that breakdown, we got contacted by Ralph and Leslie 112 00:07:07,410 --> 00:07:09,930 and they were very interested so that there was a few different 113 00:07:09,930 --> 00:07:12,720 things that happened from that, that allowed me to basically 114 00:07:12,720 --> 00:07:16,230 secure the first interview with Ralph and Leslie, when they put 115 00:07:16,230 --> 00:07:19,500 out their latest. I can't remember which article it was, 116 00:07:19,500 --> 00:07:23,130 it wasn't obviously the first article, it was one in 2018. But 117 00:07:23,130 --> 00:07:25,440 they gave me permission to have the first interview. And that 118 00:07:25,440 --> 00:07:27,780 kind of put me on the map for a few different people. It was the 119 00:07:27,780 --> 00:07:30,150 most viewed interview I've ever had, like I had had, like, you 120 00:07:30,150 --> 00:07:34,140 know, 1000 views on my videos, or maybe just over 1000 views, 121 00:07:34,140 --> 00:07:36,900 and this one got 20,000 within like, you know, a few weeks, so 122 00:07:36,900 --> 00:07:40,260 it was a big uptick for me. And, and that's where people became 123 00:07:40,260 --> 00:07:43,920 aware of my channel a little bit more. But yeah, I kind of try. 124 00:07:43,920 --> 00:07:47,160 And I really try and broaden the conversation to involve 125 00:07:47,610 --> 00:07:50,070 consciousness and nuts and bolts, because I think these are 126 00:07:50,070 --> 00:07:52,260 very important things that should be maybe more 127 00:07:52,260 --> 00:07:55,800 symbiotically approached and not necessarily seen as 128 00:07:55,800 --> 00:07:58,440 bifurcations. And you know, two different subjects that should 129 00:07:58,440 --> 00:08:00,300 be ignored from each other. I think that there's a very 130 00:08:00,300 --> 00:08:04,290 complimentary aspect to the physical and the non physical 131 00:08:04,290 --> 00:08:06,870 aspects of this conversation. So I try and bring it all together 132 00:08:06,870 --> 00:08:09,360 as much as I can by just having different people on, you know, 133 00:08:09,900 --> 00:08:12,240 talk about the nuts and bolts, talk about the consciousness, 134 00:08:12,720 --> 00:08:15,030 talk about all the different issues that I find to be 135 00:08:15,030 --> 00:08:17,820 interesting. And, and so I'm just trying to provide a 136 00:08:17,850 --> 00:08:21,150 platform so that I can learn and through that other people can 137 00:08:21,150 --> 00:08:24,690 learn because I don't pretend to be an authority on any of this, 138 00:08:24,690 --> 00:08:27,090 especially the Wilson leaks. I don't pretend to be an authority 139 00:08:27,090 --> 00:08:29,850 on it. But I've just been fortunate enough to have 140 00:08:29,850 --> 00:08:33,300 conversations with people, network of people. And yeah, 141 00:08:33,300 --> 00:08:37,800 I've been able to solidify myself as a member of the UFO 142 00:08:37,800 --> 00:08:40,920 community in terms of as a researcher as a platform as a 143 00:08:40,920 --> 00:08:44,550 channel. And yeah, if you'd if you'd gone back in time and 144 00:08:44,550 --> 00:08:46,770 asked me a few years ago, if I'd be doing this, I would have said 145 00:08:46,770 --> 00:08:50,040 absolutely not. But here I am. And and I'm happy to be here 146 00:08:50,040 --> 00:08:50,490 tonight, 147 00:08:50,880 --> 00:08:52,980 John Greenewald: I think, and I'm happy to have you. I think 148 00:08:52,980 --> 00:08:56,310 we all feel that way. You know, we can all comfortably say yeah, 149 00:08:56,310 --> 00:08:59,130 if you asked me 10 years ago. Now, I have to say if you asked 150 00:08:59,130 --> 00:09:03,960 me 25 years ago, you know, I'm getting up there in age, but I 151 00:09:03,960 --> 00:09:06,810 think we all feel that way we never expected but that's what 152 00:09:06,810 --> 00:09:10,020 happens to us. One really interesting note for for the 153 00:09:10,020 --> 00:09:14,310 audience, which was a very cool little tidbit of synchronicity 154 00:09:14,640 --> 00:09:17,940 was doing research for all shows that I do, but I always love to 155 00:09:17,940 --> 00:09:21,360 kind of see what the guest likes, you know, gear interviews 156 00:09:21,360 --> 00:09:23,670 towards their interests. Obviously, we have a pretty 157 00:09:23,670 --> 00:09:26,370 tight niche of what we're dealing with here. But I wanted 158 00:09:26,370 --> 00:09:30,300 to really get in to project unity to what you did. And not 159 00:09:30,300 --> 00:09:33,810 only do you do interviews, you do videos, you do audio only 160 00:09:33,810 --> 00:09:37,350 stuff. So you have a wide array. So I would recommend everybody 161 00:09:37,350 --> 00:09:40,110 check it out. Links are in the description below directly to 162 00:09:40,110 --> 00:09:43,710 project unity, make sure that you subscribe. But one of the 163 00:09:43,710 --> 00:09:48,030 videos you had was a show that I had produced for history channel 164 00:09:48,060 --> 00:09:52,890 about Hitler and the occult. And I was like wait a minute, why? 165 00:09:52,920 --> 00:09:56,430 Because again, with our you know, kind of rough start to our 166 00:09:56,430 --> 00:09:59,640 history a couple years back, I thought what is that? What is it 167 00:09:59,640 --> 00:10:02,880 so I have To say like, Oh my god, that was my, that was my 168 00:10:02,880 --> 00:10:06,030 baby for a while and forgive me I misspoke. It was National 169 00:10:06,030 --> 00:10:10,110 Geographic Channel, not history. But but it was a amazing little 170 00:10:10,110 --> 00:10:13,350 thing of synchronicity there that you had pulled that clip. 171 00:10:13,350 --> 00:10:17,100 And I remember writing that segment, I remember the actor, I 172 00:10:17,100 --> 00:10:20,490 was friends with him for years, who played who actually played 173 00:10:20,640 --> 00:10:24,600 Adolf Hitler in that show, and it was an amazing thing. So it's 174 00:10:24,600 --> 00:10:26,610 fun to kind of see that synchronicity that I think we 175 00:10:26,610 --> 00:10:30,030 have a lot more in common than we might have imagined 176 00:10:30,030 --> 00:10:33,360 originally. So let me take you. Let me take you back to the the 177 00:10:33,360 --> 00:10:38,400 Wilson Davis documents because you have done a lot of work, 178 00:10:38,430 --> 00:10:41,040 doing the videos and researching, and I would 179 00:10:41,040 --> 00:10:43,710 respectfully disagree, I think you are an authority. When I 180 00:10:43,710 --> 00:10:48,090 asked on Twitter, who out there, you know, is somebody we should 181 00:10:48,090 --> 00:10:51,600 talk to about this because I wanted to revisit, most of the 182 00:10:51,600 --> 00:10:55,290 people said you there was a short list of people. You know, 183 00:10:55,290 --> 00:10:58,980 you were you were on that list. So you're you're definitely in 184 00:10:58,980 --> 00:11:04,170 authority. No pressure, no pressure. So, so don't mess 185 00:11:04,200 --> 00:11:07,920 Don't mess this up, Jay. No, I but I wanted to say that just 186 00:11:07,920 --> 00:11:11,250 simply because you have done that research. And that even 187 00:11:11,250 --> 00:11:14,850 though we may not agree at the end, but who knows? By the end 188 00:11:14,850 --> 00:11:18,300 of this, you've done that work so that I can appreciate. But 189 00:11:18,300 --> 00:11:21,930 what made you look at the Wilson Davis documents. I mean, if you 190 00:11:21,930 --> 00:11:24,630 walked up to somebody on the street, and they go, what's the 191 00:11:24,630 --> 00:11:27,090 Wilson Davis documents? Why have you Why do you want to bring 192 00:11:27,090 --> 00:11:29,790 attention to that? What would you say? Um, 193 00:11:29,819 --> 00:11:33,419 Jay: well, I came across it. I think I think the main thing 194 00:11:33,419 --> 00:11:36,449 that I saw first of all was actually Richard Dolan's video, 195 00:11:36,449 --> 00:11:38,849 when he put out that first the leak of the century 196 00:11:38,879 --> 00:11:42,659 presentation, I'm pretty sure that was my first time being 197 00:11:42,659 --> 00:11:45,209 exposed to the notes maybe slightly before then maybe 198 00:11:45,209 --> 00:11:48,389 someone has sent me a link to where it was hosted on on Imgur 199 00:11:48,389 --> 00:11:55,019 or mg or whatever you call it. Yeah. But yeah, that was when I 200 00:11:55,019 --> 00:11:58,349 first became aware of the documents. And, you know, I just 201 00:11:58,349 --> 00:12:01,619 I downloaded them, I was reading through them. And I think what 202 00:12:01,619 --> 00:12:06,239 interested me was that I, before I properly embedded myself in 203 00:12:06,239 --> 00:12:08,459 the UFO conversation, like I said, I started in 204 00:12:08,459 --> 00:12:12,239 consciousness. And one of the things I started in was kind of 205 00:12:12,269 --> 00:12:15,419 going through, I think you'll appreciate this the CIA freedom 206 00:12:15,419 --> 00:12:17,789 of information, that library is just trying to find anything I 207 00:12:17,789 --> 00:12:22,289 can on, you know, mysterious physics, exotic concepts. And 208 00:12:22,289 --> 00:12:24,899 you know, and I was finding a lot of this remote viewing stuff 209 00:12:24,899 --> 00:12:28,859 in Stanford Research Institute, and how put off and so I was 210 00:12:28,859 --> 00:12:32,249 hearing mention of these people. And I had seen interviews of 211 00:12:32,249 --> 00:12:35,069 people like Edgar Mitchell, when he was first talking about this 212 00:12:35,069 --> 00:12:38,699 issue. But I hadn't had that time before I was, you know, 213 00:12:38,699 --> 00:12:41,429 before I saw the nodes, I hadn't threaded these people together 214 00:12:41,429 --> 00:12:43,709 in that way. So when I saw the notes, and they were all being 215 00:12:43,709 --> 00:12:46,109 mentioned within it, and you had, you know, Greer, and you 216 00:12:46,109 --> 00:12:49,619 have Miller and Mitchell, I was just like, Okay, I'm interested 217 00:12:49,619 --> 00:12:53,309 in this. And I at the time, like I said, I just kind of wanted 218 00:12:53,309 --> 00:12:56,579 to, I think what what I was planning to do at the beginning, 219 00:12:56,609 --> 00:12:59,519 once I decided that this was interesting enough to go through 220 00:12:59,519 --> 00:13:02,729 was I was going to do like a dramatized reading of the notes. 221 00:13:03,239 --> 00:13:05,939 So I was kind of writing out like a script, almost where I 222 00:13:05,939 --> 00:13:07,349 fleshed out a script. 223 00:13:09,210 --> 00:13:10,140 John Greenewald: I'm just trying to 224 00:13:11,940 --> 00:13:16,800 Jay: me all along, john, it's my years ago, I'm I'm older than I 225 00:13:16,800 --> 00:13:20,790 look. Now, but it's a serious seriously, I was looking at 226 00:13:20,790 --> 00:13:23,910 writing, like kind of like a more fleshed out version of it, 227 00:13:23,910 --> 00:13:27,210 so that I could read it in a in a dramatize way, but still have 228 00:13:27,210 --> 00:13:29,880 all of the necessary, you know, components of the notes 229 00:13:29,880 --> 00:13:32,640 included. And I never really got around to doing that. And it's 230 00:13:32,640 --> 00:13:36,090 evolved into something else that I'm looking to do now. But um, 231 00:13:36,120 --> 00:13:39,270 yeah, that's where my interest started. And so I put out this 232 00:13:39,300 --> 00:13:42,240 little promotional video for those notes. And like I said, I 233 00:13:42,240 --> 00:13:45,780 got connected to Richard Dolan and a few other people. And now 234 00:13:45,780 --> 00:13:49,470 I'm, you know, very good friends with James Rigby and Ross 235 00:13:49,470 --> 00:13:52,800 Coltart and a few of the others who've been involved in this in 236 00:13:52,800 --> 00:13:57,510 this research effort. And I just, I just think that's it, 237 00:13:57,600 --> 00:14:01,830 it's worthy. It's, I honestly think it's worthy of trying to 238 00:14:01,830 --> 00:14:04,110 keep this within the conversation and not let it 239 00:14:04,110 --> 00:14:06,840 gather dust in the attic and just become a long forgotten 240 00:14:06,840 --> 00:14:09,960 story. I would never say that everything in that document is 241 00:14:09,960 --> 00:14:12,570 100%. Real. And I know that as a fact, because that would be 242 00:14:12,570 --> 00:14:15,180 really arrogant. And it's not true. I don't know that I just 243 00:14:15,180 --> 00:14:19,170 don't. But I do think that this represents a potential situation 244 00:14:19,170 --> 00:14:24,300 where you've got a very clear indication of subversion of 245 00:14:24,300 --> 00:14:27,120 standardized governmental oversight on programs. You've 246 00:14:27,120 --> 00:14:30,060 got very, you know, compelling information about the idea that 247 00:14:30,060 --> 00:14:34,590 they are keeping very sensitive technologies and materials away 248 00:14:34,590 --> 00:14:37,440 from the public in relation to UFOs and potentially 249 00:14:37,440 --> 00:14:42,060 extraterrestrials we don't know. So I just think that when you 250 00:14:42,060 --> 00:14:45,480 look at other areas of this research effort, it's not like 251 00:14:45,480 --> 00:14:50,040 this is the only example that is hinting towards hidden programs 252 00:14:50,040 --> 00:14:52,620 and black programs and reverse engineering. We've got you know, 253 00:14:52,620 --> 00:14:57,090 quite a few different examples, one that I would like to 254 00:14:57,090 --> 00:14:59,400 highlight because it was actually in my recent interview 255 00:14:59,400 --> 00:15:02,790 with Ross co And I think a lot of people now know about this 256 00:15:02,790 --> 00:15:06,180 example is, is the former director of the US Navy Science 257 00:15:06,180 --> 00:15:09,810 and Technology Division Nat ko bits. And he was interviewed by 258 00:15:10,200 --> 00:15:14,220 Ross who met him the man was unfortunately dying of cancer. 259 00:15:14,730 --> 00:15:18,060 And and he he did confirm to Ross on the you know, when he 260 00:15:18,060 --> 00:15:20,610 was speaking with him that he had been involved, he'd been 261 00:15:20,610 --> 00:15:23,730 read into and briefed on retrieval and re engineering 262 00:15:23,730 --> 00:15:26,490 programs that he was shown very anomalous metals, because he 263 00:15:26,490 --> 00:15:29,460 kind of you know, was, he was the head honcho of the science 264 00:15:29,460 --> 00:15:33,600 and tech division of the US Navy had a lot of bone a few days in 265 00:15:33,600 --> 00:15:37,230 that in that kind of subject matter. So we've got lots of 266 00:15:37,230 --> 00:15:40,290 different converging possibilities, this stuff's 267 00:15:40,290 --> 00:15:42,750 real. And I just think that the admiral Wilson leaks is one of 268 00:15:42,750 --> 00:15:46,830 those areas, which should perhaps be scrutinized more, and 269 00:15:46,830 --> 00:15:49,950 just, I just don't want to see it left alone and fade away from 270 00:15:49,950 --> 00:15:53,430 memory. I, you know, it's not like we can break the door open 271 00:15:53,430 --> 00:15:57,150 with this right now. But I think that developments are still 272 00:15:57,150 --> 00:16:00,210 possible in the future with this, if we keep it going, if we 273 00:16:00,210 --> 00:16:02,640 keep asking questions, if we keep bringing it up and going, 274 00:16:02,640 --> 00:16:05,370 Hey, but what about this? Can you answer this question about 275 00:16:05,370 --> 00:16:08,640 these leaks? Maybe one day, we'll get an another notch up on 276 00:16:08,640 --> 00:16:10,890 the development ladder. But yeah, I just don't want to see 277 00:16:10,890 --> 00:16:13,950 it stay as a static situation in the shadows of UFO ology, you 278 00:16:13,950 --> 00:16:18,090 John Greenewald: know, sure. Yeah, no, I understand that. We 279 00:16:18,090 --> 00:16:22,290 don't have to go through every, like bullet point of the Wilson 280 00:16:22,290 --> 00:16:25,890 Davis documents, just because you have done an extensive 281 00:16:25,890 --> 00:16:30,030 overview of it. On my channel, I've done you know, minus the 282 00:16:30,030 --> 00:16:34,440 theory, which we'll get into later, in extensive overview. So 283 00:16:34,500 --> 00:16:37,920 I kind of want to move forward with the understanding the 284 00:16:37,950 --> 00:16:41,610 audience who's watching this probably has a rough overview of 285 00:16:41,610 --> 00:16:44,610 what the notes are. But let me ask you, though, what do you 286 00:16:44,610 --> 00:16:50,610 feel out of the notes, is the most important part that you 287 00:16:50,610 --> 00:16:55,920 feel shouldn't be lost, you know, to history. But what what 288 00:16:55,920 --> 00:16:59,070 is that one thing that you take away from the notes? 289 00:16:59,669 --> 00:17:03,029 Jay: Unfortunately, there isn't. It's not about one thing, it's 290 00:17:03,029 --> 00:17:06,239 about a coalescing of data is about a compounding of 291 00:17:06,239 --> 00:17:09,539 information. It's about chronological, historical 292 00:17:09,539 --> 00:17:13,139 context of statements made by various people involved. So I 293 00:17:13,139 --> 00:17:16,739 mean, I can't give you one smoking gun, the actual document 294 00:17:16,739 --> 00:17:19,589 itself I would consider to be a smoking gun, but that's because 295 00:17:19,589 --> 00:17:22,409 of all of the information outside of it. It's not just ink 296 00:17:22,589 --> 00:17:25,919 on paper, there are statements from people involved. Edgar 297 00:17:25,919 --> 00:17:28,559 Mitchell, Eric Davis, help put off you know, there were, there 298 00:17:28,559 --> 00:17:31,229 were interesting comments and interesting events that 299 00:17:31,229 --> 00:17:35,309 transpired. So I, you know, I, like I said, I've got a lot of 300 00:17:35,309 --> 00:17:38,249 notes here. I don't want to have to take up the whole time going 301 00:17:38,249 --> 00:17:41,609 through every single one. But I do have quite a few different 302 00:17:41,609 --> 00:17:44,759 things I'd like to go through. I mean, three on it. You know, the 303 00:17:44,759 --> 00:17:47,369 first thing that I think is worth mentioning is Edgar 304 00:17:47,369 --> 00:17:51,419 Mitchell, right? So Apollo Apollo 14 astronauts, six months 305 00:17:51,419 --> 00:17:54,359 walk on the moon, you know, incredibly intelligent and 306 00:17:54,359 --> 00:17:58,019 honorable man. And you know what we know about these documents. 307 00:17:58,019 --> 00:18:00,449 We know they came from a reputable source. It's an 308 00:18:00,449 --> 00:18:02,639 absolute fact that these documents were rescued from 309 00:18:02,639 --> 00:18:06,179 Edgar Mitchell's estates by a close friend after Edgar passed 310 00:18:06,179 --> 00:18:08,789 away because his family were looking to get rid of many of 311 00:18:08,789 --> 00:18:13,109 his files, you know, and this friend, who is known to two of 312 00:18:13,109 --> 00:18:16,529 my colleagues, James Rigney, and Ross Coltart discovered the 313 00:18:16,529 --> 00:18:19,859 documents and I think most people who have looked into this 314 00:18:19,859 --> 00:18:23,399 situation know the chronology of the the events from here they 315 00:18:23,399 --> 00:18:26,489 went from the friend of Edgar Mitchell to James Rigney from 316 00:18:26,489 --> 00:18:29,519 James Rigby to Grand Cameron and through a small group connected 317 00:18:29,519 --> 00:18:32,969 to grant eventually they were leaked online. Nothing is also 318 00:18:32,969 --> 00:18:35,399 worth mentioning to be further these were not the only UFO 319 00:18:35,399 --> 00:18:38,189 related documents in Akers files, which is not massive 320 00:18:38,189 --> 00:18:41,429 surprise, but Ross Coulter was permitted to be the primary 321 00:18:41,459 --> 00:18:45,539 Archivist of Edgar's files by his family friend who wishes to 322 00:18:45,539 --> 00:18:48,629 remain anonymous, you know, and there are good reasons for that. 323 00:18:48,629 --> 00:18:52,169 And there is far more in his archives than just the Wilson 324 00:18:52,169 --> 00:18:55,949 documents. But these documents I think, are the most explicit in 325 00:18:55,949 --> 00:18:59,339 relation to potential cover ups and sensitive programs. Right. 326 00:18:59,339 --> 00:19:02,789 So I think that was important to remember is that Edgar Mitchell 327 00:19:02,789 --> 00:19:05,579 was in a key position within Robert Bigelow's research group, 328 00:19:05,609 --> 00:19:08,369 the National Institute of discovery science, better known 329 00:19:08,369 --> 00:19:12,329 as knids. And, you know, Edgar was on the advisory board member 330 00:19:12,329 --> 00:19:16,229 of Ned's alongside both Dr. Eric W. Davis and Dr. help put off. 331 00:19:16,289 --> 00:19:19,919 And so the very idea that this transcript between Eric and the 332 00:19:19,919 --> 00:19:23,549 admiral would be circulated amongst the core group of a high 333 00:19:23,549 --> 00:19:26,639 of highly qualified individuals within the Advisory Board of a, 334 00:19:26,969 --> 00:19:29,249 an institute that was essentially dedicated to 335 00:19:29,249 --> 00:19:32,039 uncovering the truth around paranormal and UFO related 336 00:19:32,039 --> 00:19:35,549 issues. This, you know, the, the Institute of nibs, it's 337 00:19:35,549 --> 00:19:39,209 extremely likely that these individuals would actually 338 00:19:39,209 --> 00:19:41,429 communicate and trust each other on something like this, you 339 00:19:41,429 --> 00:19:43,739 know, they were for the most part, all holding security 340 00:19:43,739 --> 00:19:47,819 clearances, and they knew how to keep a secret. So the idea that 341 00:19:48,509 --> 00:19:50,969 Eric would share this information with the likes of 342 00:19:50,969 --> 00:19:54,239 for example, it can Mitchell or help us off is not outrageous. 343 00:19:54,359 --> 00:19:56,819 You know, in fact, it's extremely likely in my opinion, 344 00:19:56,819 --> 00:19:59,969 that this was even and it's outlined in the notes when 345 00:19:59,999 --> 00:20:03,089 Admiral Wilson asks Eric, what he intends to do with the notes 346 00:20:03,119 --> 00:20:05,819 to which he responds that he'll be using it for private research 347 00:20:05,819 --> 00:20:08,909 efforts to better I think he says understand the signal to 348 00:20:08,909 --> 00:20:12,689 noise ratio within you, ufology. So I think Eric circulating 349 00:20:12,689 --> 00:20:15,689 these documents amongst trusted colleagues within knids is very 350 00:20:15,689 --> 00:20:19,949 likely. But um, yeah, there's a few different points I've got on 351 00:20:19,949 --> 00:20:21,359 Edgar Mitchell. So I wonder if you 352 00:20:22,140 --> 00:20:24,990 John Greenewald: can I can just jump in. I'm you have all the 353 00:20:24,990 --> 00:20:28,140 time you want. But I want to just ask a question on that. 354 00:20:28,470 --> 00:20:33,240 Because this is something I'm curious about. Yeah. Is there 355 00:20:33,240 --> 00:20:38,520 anybody, including the friend that's not named foreword, that 356 00:20:38,520 --> 00:20:44,310 can speak to the context of why Edgar Mitchell had these notes 357 00:20:44,340 --> 00:20:45,270 in his archive? 358 00:20:48,540 --> 00:20:51,420 Jay: Let me just unpack that question. So is there any Is 359 00:20:51,420 --> 00:20:54,000 there anyone who is what come out on the record that can 360 00:20:54,000 --> 00:20:54,510 attest? 361 00:20:54,600 --> 00:20:58,770 John Greenewald: Right, they can say, and this will kind of lead 362 00:20:58,770 --> 00:21:01,140 into other questions, but I don't want to take away from 363 00:21:01,140 --> 00:21:03,720 what you want to go through. So I'm not trying to derail that. 364 00:21:04,290 --> 00:21:09,090 But where I'm going to go where I'm going with this is a this is 365 00:21:09,090 --> 00:21:12,330 a silly example, in my archive, right, I've got a national 366 00:21:12,330 --> 00:21:14,670 enquirer article that was obtained through the Freedom of 367 00:21:14,670 --> 00:21:17,460 Information Act from the National Security Agency. Does 368 00:21:17,460 --> 00:21:20,940 that mean that I believe that that national enquirer article 369 00:21:20,940 --> 00:21:24,540 is real? No, of course not. But the context of why I have it is 370 00:21:24,540 --> 00:21:29,310 the story. That's where I'm curious, like, why did Mitchell 371 00:21:29,760 --> 00:21:34,530 have these I can somebody really say, what Eric Davis gave him? 372 00:21:34,800 --> 00:21:39,480 Jay: The things I think, I think the the best person to refer 373 00:21:39,480 --> 00:21:42,060 back to as Edgar Mitchell himself, because he does confirm 374 00:21:42,060 --> 00:21:45,030 that there was a report generated much later than the 375 00:21:45,030 --> 00:21:47,130 phone calls that they received from Admiral Wilson that 376 00:21:47,130 --> 00:21:49,980 confirmed his denial of access that they received a report much 377 00:21:49,980 --> 00:21:52,950 later than that, that confirmed the legitimacy of the admirals 378 00:21:52,950 --> 00:21:56,370 denial of access. So yeah, I mean, obviously, you don't have 379 00:21:56,520 --> 00:22:01,680 direct Eric said this, but it seems to be implying that there 380 00:22:01,680 --> 00:22:04,710 was some level of extensive report about the admirals 381 00:22:04,710 --> 00:22:08,430 situation that was then given two members of the Ned circle, 382 00:22:08,430 --> 00:22:11,100 which as I highlighted before, they were all in this trusted 383 00:22:11,100 --> 00:22:14,070 network of trying to figure out the truth about this situation. 384 00:22:14,070 --> 00:22:18,480 And then situations like this also, I and I'll acknowledge 385 00:22:18,480 --> 00:22:20,850 that I can't remember the source. But I know that he did 386 00:22:20,850 --> 00:22:24,150 say this. Edgar Mitchell did say that a colleague of his 387 00:22:24,180 --> 00:22:27,060 interviewed Admiral Wilson in Las Vegas, that is an on record 388 00:22:27,060 --> 00:22:29,610 statement that can be found online. I can't remember exactly 389 00:22:29,610 --> 00:22:33,180 where I'd be happy to try and find it after the fact and post 390 00:22:33,180 --> 00:22:34,920 on Twitter for anyone interested. But 391 00:22:35,550 --> 00:22:37,500 John Greenewald: yeah, and I want just not to step on you. I 392 00:22:37,500 --> 00:22:42,540 won't dispute that I believe that it was UFO Joe's blog. And 393 00:22:42,540 --> 00:22:46,920 I believe that the insinuation was that Eric date? And I think 394 00:22:46,950 --> 00:22:51,210 it goes to Well, I actually I don't want to misspeak. I 395 00:22:51,210 --> 00:22:53,190 thought it was how put off saying that one of his 396 00:22:53,190 --> 00:22:55,890 colleagues and interviewed and they felt that how put off had 397 00:22:56,340 --> 00:22:58,560 slipped up when he gave that comment that 398 00:22:59,609 --> 00:23:01,559 Jay: I've got that comment as well here and I'll 399 00:23:01,560 --> 00:23:02,460 John Greenewald: show you're talking about something 400 00:23:02,460 --> 00:23:04,380 different. Okay. And so then I didn't want to misspeak. 401 00:23:05,280 --> 00:23:08,550 Jay: Yeah, I, I'm sure UFO Joe would probably have it on his 402 00:23:08,550 --> 00:23:11,760 fantastic very, very long breakdown of the of the Wilson 403 00:23:11,760 --> 00:23:13,800 notes on his blog, so people can have a look through there, I 404 00:23:13,800 --> 00:23:16,020 will try and find this because I don't want to say something and 405 00:23:16,020 --> 00:23:19,680 then not be able to back it up. But I thought there was a quote 406 00:23:19,680 --> 00:23:22,530 from from Edgar Mitchell, where he did say he didn't say Eric, 407 00:23:22,530 --> 00:23:25,050 but he said a colleague of his went to Las Vegas and 408 00:23:25,050 --> 00:23:28,440 interviewed the Admiral. So, you know, I just think I just think 409 00:23:28,440 --> 00:23:32,580 that usually I wouldn't base it so loosely on just someone 410 00:23:32,580 --> 00:23:35,880 else's statements, but we're talking about Edgar Mitchell, 411 00:23:35,880 --> 00:23:38,310 and he's a special Boy, you know, because he's a very 412 00:23:38,340 --> 00:23:41,520 honorable, honorable man. He's a very, he's had a lot of 413 00:23:41,520 --> 00:23:43,350 integrity, a lot of intelligence, a lot of 414 00:23:43,500 --> 00:23:47,790 patriotism and a lot of passion for this subject. And, and I 415 00:23:47,790 --> 00:23:54,030 just, I just can't envision him saying things like this, if it 416 00:23:54,030 --> 00:23:57,000 wasn't representative of a situation that he was very, very 417 00:23:57,000 --> 00:24:00,420 familiar with, he wouldn't go on record about it. I mean, for you 418 00:24:00,420 --> 00:24:03,900 know, there's, there's actually a good example of this, if he 419 00:24:03,900 --> 00:24:06,810 absolutely knew he shouldn't go on record about something or if 420 00:24:06,810 --> 00:24:10,290 he absolutely felt that it wasn't necessary to do so. He 421 00:24:10,290 --> 00:24:13,110 wouldn't do it. And one example of that, which was actually 422 00:24:13,110 --> 00:24:17,940 recently brought to light is the fact that he's always on record, 423 00:24:18,270 --> 00:24:21,420 as well, not always, but very frequently on record started by 424 00:24:21,420 --> 00:24:24,180 saying, I just want to preface that I myself have never seen a 425 00:24:24,180 --> 00:24:28,050 UFO. That's not true. He did see a UFO and he didn't see it 426 00:24:28,050 --> 00:24:30,360 because of national security restrictions, because he was a 427 00:24:30,360 --> 00:24:34,320 NASA astronaut. And, and so I think that, you know, he's 428 00:24:34,320 --> 00:24:37,830 someone who chooses his words very carefully. And I think that 429 00:24:37,830 --> 00:24:41,670 when it comes to talking about a situation as delicate as this, I 430 00:24:41,670 --> 00:24:45,060 just, I just think that Edgar Mitchell can be relied on as 431 00:24:45,060 --> 00:24:48,810 quite a strong voice of reason. And and he has made some very 432 00:24:48,810 --> 00:24:51,840 significant hints towards Eric being the one who went out and 433 00:24:51,840 --> 00:24:55,260 into George's and so yes, you're right, there's no direct naming, 434 00:24:55,260 --> 00:24:56,100 but I just 435 00:24:56,129 --> 00:24:58,919 John Greenewald: Yeah, I do want to add one thing because I get a 436 00:24:58,919 --> 00:25:02,189 lot of heat from this. And this may have I don't remember, but 437 00:25:02,189 --> 00:25:04,979 it may have been, you know, part of the rift between you and I 438 00:25:05,009 --> 00:25:08,849 regarding Edgar Mitchell. I've met Edgar Mitchell quite a few 439 00:25:08,849 --> 00:25:13,169 times I had dinner with him. speaking at conferences with him 440 00:25:13,169 --> 00:25:16,409 shared stages with him, I believe I was on a panel with 441 00:25:16,409 --> 00:25:18,599 him, if I remember correctly, I could be wrong on the panel 442 00:25:18,599 --> 00:25:21,329 part. But regardless, there's pictures of me on stage with 443 00:25:21,329 --> 00:25:26,579 them. And the reason why I bring that up is I am not attacking 444 00:25:26,909 --> 00:25:29,759 Edgar Mitchell, he is an American hero, you know, the 445 00:25:29,759 --> 00:25:34,229 space program is something that that I'm a huge fan of my father 446 00:25:34,229 --> 00:25:37,619 worked within it. So I'm very sensitive about those types of 447 00:25:37,619 --> 00:25:41,159 things. But in the same respect, and this, that all leads into my 448 00:25:41,159 --> 00:25:46,199 question to you is, you're absolutely right. He's an 449 00:25:46,199 --> 00:25:49,529 honorable man. Right? And and you're absolutely right, his 450 00:25:49,559 --> 00:25:55,559 intentions, I believe, are pure, I had no bad feeling I get bad 451 00:25:55,559 --> 00:25:57,989 feelings about a lot of people, Edgar Mitchell is not one of 452 00:25:57,989 --> 00:26:04,109 them. But my question is, is it possible that he was told that 453 00:26:04,109 --> 00:26:07,979 this was true, and was too trusting by whomever told him? 454 00:26:09,720 --> 00:26:13,080 Jay: I don't believe so. Because this was something that very 455 00:26:13,080 --> 00:26:15,570 clearly seems to have been circulated amongst the core 456 00:26:15,570 --> 00:26:18,420 group of needs. And I do have details about why I believe that 457 00:26:18,420 --> 00:26:21,060 it was absolutely circulated amongst the core group. And 458 00:26:21,060 --> 00:26:26,010 this, this group did not have within their, you know, network, 459 00:26:26,010 --> 00:26:29,130 the possibility for a falsified script about one of their 460 00:26:29,130 --> 00:26:32,460 members to be circulated amongst this group, and then later 461 00:26:32,460 --> 00:26:38,340 spoken about, essentially, by Edgar Mitchell on on TV. So I 462 00:26:38,340 --> 00:26:40,740 don't think that that's the case, because I think that 463 00:26:40,740 --> 00:26:44,280 there's relatively good evidence to suggest that Eric Davis did 464 00:26:44,280 --> 00:26:47,610 indeed write these notes in including, and, you know, 465 00:26:47,730 --> 00:26:51,180 because I like I said, I've got a lot of notes here, but I think 466 00:26:51,180 --> 00:26:54,150 is relevant for what we're talking about right now. How put 467 00:26:54,150 --> 00:26:58,290 off right. He's given some interesting comments in respect 468 00:26:58,290 --> 00:27:01,410 to Admiral Wilson leaks, because whether it was a slip of the 469 00:27:01,410 --> 00:27:05,400 tongue or a deliberate, delicate and cleverly worded response, 470 00:27:05,400 --> 00:27:08,700 how put off confirms that Eric Davis met with an interview with 471 00:27:08,700 --> 00:27:10,980 Admiral Wilson. Now we'll see that how put off has made 472 00:27:10,980 --> 00:27:14,640 comments about this, claiming that he was merely reciting the 473 00:27:14,640 --> 00:27:18,600 question back for the audience. But I don't think his wording 474 00:27:18,600 --> 00:27:20,040 makes this very likely. But he's 475 00:27:20,189 --> 00:27:21,689 John Greenewald: gonna have the quote in front of you that you 476 00:27:21,689 --> 00:27:21,839 can 477 00:27:22,560 --> 00:27:25,170 Jay: hear is what how put off said during the q&a session of 478 00:27:25,170 --> 00:27:27,750 the transition torque conference that took place in February of 479 00:27:27,750 --> 00:27:31,830 2020. He said, this is a question about the Wilson 480 00:27:31,830 --> 00:27:35,640 documents that apparently got leaked on the internet. Admiral 481 00:27:35,640 --> 00:27:38,280 Wilson was one of the Joint Chiefs of Staff interviewed by 482 00:27:38,280 --> 00:27:41,880 my sign his senior scientists colleague, Eric Davis, since it 483 00:27:41,880 --> 00:27:45,090 discusses potentially ongoing programs, I have no comment. Now 484 00:27:45,090 --> 00:27:47,880 that first section this this is a question about the Wilson 485 00:27:47,880 --> 00:27:50,070 documents that apparently got leaked on the internet. That 486 00:27:50,070 --> 00:27:53,340 part's absolutely nothing other than how put off reciting by the 487 00:27:53,340 --> 00:27:56,430 question to the audience. But the next part doesn't read in a 488 00:27:56,430 --> 00:27:58,890 way that sounds like he's reciting it back, help us off, 489 00:27:58,890 --> 00:28:02,160 says Admiral Wilson was one of the Joint Chiefs of Staff 490 00:28:02,190 --> 00:28:04,380 interviewed by my senior scientists colleague, not 491 00:28:04,380 --> 00:28:07,830 Admiral Wilson was supposed to be one of his lead literally 492 00:28:07,830 --> 00:28:11,280 says Admiral Wilson was. And it just doesn't seem like he's 493 00:28:11,280 --> 00:28:13,830 reciting here. It sounds like he's telling you that Eric 494 00:28:13,830 --> 00:28:17,040 interview the admiral, and then he finishes off with saying he 495 00:28:17,040 --> 00:28:19,650 won't discuss it because it relates to potentially ongoing 496 00:28:19,650 --> 00:28:23,310 programs. I mean, you know, I kind of feel like he's he's 497 00:28:23,340 --> 00:28:26,160 trying to be as clear as he can. This is not a simple No comment. 498 00:28:26,190 --> 00:28:28,620 This is a linguistically strategized statement that 499 00:28:28,620 --> 00:28:31,140 allows how to acknowledge the fact that this occurred without 500 00:28:31,140 --> 00:28:34,620 directly saying it and therefore negating any breaches and 501 00:28:34,620 --> 00:28:35,730 national security. 502 00:28:38,010 --> 00:28:41,430 John Greenewald: Okay, I mean, what's tough about that is we 503 00:28:41,430 --> 00:28:45,000 are reading into potentially what he could or could not have 504 00:28:45,000 --> 00:28:48,510 meant. And I think that that's what's very challenging, about 505 00:28:48,510 --> 00:28:51,150 statements like that. But I'm glad that you have the quote, 506 00:28:51,150 --> 00:28:53,640 because I wanted to make sure that we had that, you know, 507 00:28:53,670 --> 00:28:58,260 exact. Yeah. Other than that, though, how put off has has 508 00:28:58,260 --> 00:29:05,610 primarily given no comments he gave one to James I, endo Lee, 509 00:29:06,090 --> 00:29:08,640 engaging the phenomenon that was the one that I was able to 510 00:29:08,640 --> 00:29:11,730 source for the the video that I did, but I know he's given that 511 00:29:11,730 --> 00:29:17,130 quite quite a few times. I'm kind of jumping around in my 512 00:29:17,130 --> 00:29:19,950 head on the questions, but since we're on no comments, I just 513 00:29:19,950 --> 00:29:21,390 want to throw this question out. 514 00:29:22,020 --> 00:29:24,630 Jay: I'm sure I'll just want to say real quick. Sorry, john, but 515 00:29:25,470 --> 00:29:28,350 I'm sure that most people are aware that, you know, Richard 516 00:29:28,350 --> 00:29:31,560 Dolan was provided two pages of the notes way back in the early 517 00:29:31,560 --> 00:29:35,970 2000s by someone very closely associated with nids and to the 518 00:29:35,970 --> 00:29:38,880 stars Academy. And when these documents were publicly leaked 519 00:29:38,880 --> 00:29:41,160 this this same individual confirmed to Richard off the 520 00:29:41,160 --> 00:29:44,460 record that the documents are legitimate, so obviously, take 521 00:29:44,490 --> 00:29:48,030 what you will from anonymity, but I respect Richard Dolan. And 522 00:29:48,030 --> 00:29:50,280 I know he is telling the truth about his individual both 523 00:29:50,280 --> 00:29:52,860 providing him with a small portion of the documents early 524 00:29:52,860 --> 00:29:56,490 on, and and then also confirming their legitimacy when the leaks 525 00:29:56,490 --> 00:30:00,390 occurred. And you know, he remains nameless, but I People 526 00:30:00,390 --> 00:30:01,320 can fill in the blanks if 527 00:30:01,590 --> 00:30:03,510 John Greenewald: you need it. Well, you answered my question. 528 00:30:03,510 --> 00:30:09,510 So so just for clarity, we don't know who that is. I would rather 529 00:30:09,510 --> 00:30:12,630 not comment on that. So you Okay, so you possibly know who 530 00:30:12,630 --> 00:30:15,660 that is? I'm talking about the collective. Yeah, yeah, they 531 00:30:16,320 --> 00:30:17,880 know me, I have no idea. 532 00:30:19,529 --> 00:30:21,899 Jay: That's why that's why I'm saying take anonymity from what 533 00:30:21,899 --> 00:30:25,679 you will but I respect that you and I work ethic and his honesty 534 00:30:25,679 --> 00:30:29,849 in this so. Okay. And and to be fair, real quick. Kitt green 535 00:30:29,879 --> 00:30:32,219 also spoke with Richard Dolan. You know, he gave me an on 536 00:30:32,219 --> 00:30:35,699 record comment about the Wilson documents. But he gave Richard 537 00:30:35,699 --> 00:30:38,819 permission to say publicly that Kate green also gave him an off 538 00:30:38,819 --> 00:30:41,399 record comment about these links. So again, take from that 539 00:30:41,399 --> 00:30:43,619 what you will, but all of this pushes the needle further 540 00:30:43,619 --> 00:30:46,409 towards this being legit, because these people don't want 541 00:30:46,409 --> 00:30:49,499 to acknowledge this publicly for very obvious reasons. But see, 542 00:30:49,499 --> 00:30:51,689 what was what was the off 543 00:30:51,899 --> 00:30:53,219 John Greenewald: record part of that? 544 00:30:53,489 --> 00:30:56,219 Jay: We don't know. It was off record, but he's good. He gave 545 00:30:56,219 --> 00:30:58,619 an on record statement. I can't remember specifically what that 546 00:30:58,619 --> 00:31:01,499 statement was. But yeah, cuz I was, you know, speaking with 547 00:31:01,499 --> 00:31:03,509 Richard Dolan recently about it. And he said, Yeah, you know, 548 00:31:03,509 --> 00:31:07,319 what, Kate green, gave me a non record statement and then said, 549 00:31:07,619 --> 00:31:09,929 after they got off record, well, I can give you a give you an off 550 00:31:09,929 --> 00:31:12,599 record statement, or Richard Dolan asked him and he agreed. 551 00:31:12,749 --> 00:31:16,049 And then Richard did ask him, can I say that you gave me an 552 00:31:16,049 --> 00:31:18,059 off record statement? And Kitt. Green said, Yes. 553 00:31:18,089 --> 00:31:21,449 John Greenewald: So we have no idea what the record stuff is. I 554 00:31:21,449 --> 00:31:22,409 mean, obviously, it's off 555 00:31:22,410 --> 00:31:24,930 Jay: record. But all I'm saying is, it's just like little like, 556 00:31:24,930 --> 00:31:27,360 why would you need to give an off record statement? Or why 557 00:31:27,360 --> 00:31:29,640 would any of these people need to give off record statements 558 00:31:29,640 --> 00:31:33,120 that apparently, they can't give publicly? And especially when 559 00:31:33,120 --> 00:31:35,640 they haven't actually denied it publicly? Anyway, like Hell's 560 00:31:35,640 --> 00:31:38,520 never denied it? Eric's never denied it. So it's, 561 00:31:39,179 --> 00:31:41,489 John Greenewald: well, okay. And I want to and I want to zone in 562 00:31:41,489 --> 00:31:45,359 on that, since that was brought up here. Because I think that 563 00:31:45,359 --> 00:31:49,559 that is one thing that is brought up a lot. May I ask, and 564 00:31:49,559 --> 00:31:52,709 really quickly, and then I'll expand a little bit? Yep. I've 565 00:31:52,709 --> 00:31:58,739 ever spoken to anyone with a security clearance outside of 566 00:31:58,739 --> 00:32:03,869 the UFO sphere, meaning, you know, you probably have talked 567 00:32:03,869 --> 00:32:07,619 to how put off it sounds like, obviously, he likely either had 568 00:32:07,619 --> 00:32:10,229 or has a security clearance, whatever the answer is, but 569 00:32:10,649 --> 00:32:15,899 outside, have you interviewed anybody and asked them about 570 00:32:15,899 --> 00:32:19,919 security class of classification? And how they 571 00:32:19,919 --> 00:32:23,909 handle talking about classified information? No, not 572 00:32:23,909 --> 00:32:28,679 specifically, I don't think of okay. So I because I don't know, 573 00:32:28,679 --> 00:32:30,899 I don't have a security clearance, and so on. So I 574 00:32:30,899 --> 00:32:34,529 reached out to a small handful of those that do have security 575 00:32:34,529 --> 00:32:39,179 clearances, I can say there are a couple of them that are inside 576 00:32:39,719 --> 00:32:43,289 the Pentagon currently working now. And one that is for a 577 00:32:43,289 --> 00:32:48,929 contractor. In short, I asked them what happens when you have 578 00:32:48,929 --> 00:32:54,599 a classified question posed your way meaning if I if I pulled up 579 00:32:54,599 --> 00:32:58,379 a document, and I said, Okay, this is allegedly top secret, 580 00:32:58,469 --> 00:33:01,679 and they have a top secret clearance. Can you tell me if 581 00:33:01,679 --> 00:33:05,879 this is real or not? And and I didn't, you know, it's not a UFO 582 00:33:05,879 --> 00:33:08,879 document. I'm just saying anything of classification. And 583 00:33:08,879 --> 00:33:13,199 across the board, everybody said, No, you never comment on 584 00:33:13,199 --> 00:33:17,309 it. And the legality is the fact that you are now acting as a 585 00:33:17,309 --> 00:33:20,789 spokesperson for the United States government. Even as silly 586 00:33:20,789 --> 00:33:24,659 as that sounds. It's it's the way that it would be handled 587 00:33:24,659 --> 00:33:29,189 that if you omit a possibility about it, if you say no, if you 588 00:33:29,189 --> 00:33:33,839 say no, that this is not real, that you potentially infringe on 589 00:33:33,839 --> 00:33:39,239 the security oath that you took. So the no comment across the 590 00:33:39,239 --> 00:33:41,489 board. Everybody said the same thing. And no, they do not know 591 00:33:41,489 --> 00:33:44,759 each other. And no, I did not say what the other person had 592 00:33:44,759 --> 00:33:48,959 said. Across the board, they said no, no comment that that's 593 00:33:48,989 --> 00:33:52,229 how they would handle it. And that if you do, sorry, 594 00:33:52,770 --> 00:33:55,380 Jay: that kind of proves the point, because they wouldn't 595 00:33:55,380 --> 00:33:59,340 want to bring down the wrath of the US government national 596 00:33:59,340 --> 00:34:03,240 security on top of their head. So they've never said no, or 597 00:34:03,240 --> 00:34:04,500 Yes, they've been very, 598 00:34:05,070 --> 00:34:07,920 John Greenewald: that's correct. But But where I'm going with 599 00:34:07,920 --> 00:34:11,550 this is a lot of people and I Joe's not here, so I don't want 600 00:34:11,550 --> 00:34:16,860 to make it seem like I'm picking on him. However, I just know his 601 00:34:16,860 --> 00:34:21,390 blog, and it said, they denied it. And in numerous occasions, 602 00:34:21,390 --> 00:34:25,770 mostly with with the will will Miller stuff. When he said like 603 00:34:25,770 --> 00:34:29,250 no comment or whatever. He said, Well, can you can you blame 604 00:34:29,250 --> 00:34:31,380 them? He would have to do that because he wants to keep it 605 00:34:31,380 --> 00:34:35,070 secret. So it seems like there's a leap when you hear a no 606 00:34:35,070 --> 00:34:39,180 comment, that that automatically means that there's some kind of 607 00:34:39,180 --> 00:34:41,070 confirmation of when 608 00:34:42,540 --> 00:34:44,190 Jay: sorry, I don't want to interrupt you, john, please. No, 609 00:34:44,190 --> 00:34:44,310 no, 610 00:34:44,310 --> 00:34:45,030 John Greenewald: no, you're all good. 611 00:34:46,050 --> 00:34:49,800 Jay: I've got I think that we really need to examine what no 612 00:34:49,800 --> 00:34:52,770 comment would be. And especially I think when you talk about 613 00:34:52,770 --> 00:34:56,850 someone like Eric Davis, so Eric Davis, who's supposedly the 614 00:34:56,850 --> 00:35:01,470 author of these notes, Joe Meaux You would be able to attest to 615 00:35:01,470 --> 00:35:04,170 this more than anyone he's good friends very Davis. He's 616 00:35:04,170 --> 00:35:09,750 communicated back and forth. Davis has zero tolerance on BS. 617 00:35:09,840 --> 00:35:13,320 He is very outspoken, he's very quick to like, you know, kind of 618 00:35:13,320 --> 00:35:16,650 jump on anything that he thinks is is ridiculous or not worth 619 00:35:16,650 --> 00:35:21,390 his time or, you know, and I think that the statements that 620 00:35:21,390 --> 00:35:26,400 he's made in relation to this document are so against the 621 00:35:26,400 --> 00:35:29,550 personality traits are very dangerous when dealing with 622 00:35:29,580 --> 00:35:34,350 fabrications or lies, especially when they are literally 623 00:35:34,350 --> 00:35:39,120 implicating him in this situation. So, you know, another 624 00:35:39,120 --> 00:35:42,870 another really interesting aspect of this whole scenario is 625 00:35:42,870 --> 00:35:47,160 the Steven Greenstreet interview with Eric Davis. And this is the 626 00:35:47,160 --> 00:35:49,920 one that he did for the New York Post. This interview has 627 00:35:49,920 --> 00:35:54,390 subsequently been deleted. It has been kept alive via a 628 00:35:54,390 --> 00:35:58,380 transcript on Joe merges blog. But there's no questioning that 629 00:35:58,380 --> 00:36:00,690 the the interview happened plenty of people in the UFO 630 00:36:00,690 --> 00:36:04,350 community saw this interview. And the statement that Eric 631 00:36:04,350 --> 00:36:08,550 Davis gives during this interview. I just it's 632 00:36:08,550 --> 00:36:12,570 incredibly interesting series of comments. And I've got it here. 633 00:36:12,570 --> 00:36:17,250 Actually, I've got what he said. Stephen Greenstreet was very 634 00:36:17,370 --> 00:36:20,160 awesome. He was very persistent with this because he asked about 635 00:36:20,160 --> 00:36:24,270 the Wilson documents. And first of all, Eric Davis is like, I'm 636 00:36:24,270 --> 00:36:27,570 not saying anything about the Wilson documents. Eventually, 637 00:36:27,570 --> 00:36:30,210 though, after literally about three times of him saying but 638 00:36:30,210 --> 00:36:32,730 you're all over this document, you've got to talk about this. 639 00:36:32,730 --> 00:36:36,390 Well, you know, why won't you talk about this? He said this? I 640 00:36:36,390 --> 00:36:39,720 can't address that at all. I won't answer any questions on 641 00:36:39,720 --> 00:36:42,450 the admiral Wilson notes. They're purportedly classified 642 00:36:42,450 --> 00:36:46,560 information. I'm not at liberty to confirm or verify any aspect 643 00:36:46,560 --> 00:36:49,800 of those notes. You know, when you have security clearances, 644 00:36:49,920 --> 00:36:52,350 that's something you don't want to violate, because the 645 00:36:52,350 --> 00:36:55,740 Department of Justice under the Obama administration, and its 646 00:36:55,740 --> 00:36:59,160 continued under the Trump administration policies, is they 647 00:36:59,160 --> 00:37:02,130 will vigorously prosecute anybody with security 648 00:37:02,130 --> 00:37:04,860 clearances, who will go out of their way to discuss any 649 00:37:04,860 --> 00:37:07,890 classified information that got leaked or released into the 650 00:37:07,890 --> 00:37:11,670 public illegally, or through other means now, like, john, 651 00:37:11,670 --> 00:37:14,520 with all due respect, how can we look at that as a no comment? 652 00:37:14,550 --> 00:37:16,380 That's not just a No comment. 653 00:37:17,100 --> 00:37:21,300 John Greenewald: I mean, it. I'll be honest with you, I don't 654 00:37:21,300 --> 00:37:24,750 see it the way that you do what he is saying. And this is one of 655 00:37:24,750 --> 00:37:28,380 the rare occasions where I'm going to agree with Dr. Davis, 656 00:37:28,380 --> 00:37:32,970 because, and we can talk about this I, I can prove that he is 657 00:37:32,970 --> 00:37:36,780 disseminating false information about document, declassification 658 00:37:36,780 --> 00:37:40,110 and UFO related information to a tip that's documented, there's 659 00:37:40,110 --> 00:37:45,390 no, there's no way to dispute it. And he was very dismissive 660 00:37:45,420 --> 00:37:50,160 and just plainly didn't care. So my credibility scale for Dr. 661 00:37:50,160 --> 00:37:53,370 Davis is not as high as yours, however, with what you just 662 00:37:53,370 --> 00:37:57,390 said. And that quote, I don't see it that way. That's exactly. 663 00:37:58,050 --> 00:38:02,490 That's exactly the issue for anybody with a clearance, start 664 00:38:02,490 --> 00:38:08,280 talking about information. Like the notes like what is purported 665 00:38:08,280 --> 00:38:14,850 to be true in the notes that if you say no, then then you again, 666 00:38:14,850 --> 00:38:18,240 are acting essentially as that spokesperson that you are 667 00:38:18,240 --> 00:38:23,700 commenting on something that you are not tasked to comment on. So 668 00:38:24,300 --> 00:38:27,840 is it isn't what you just read? I agree with Dr. Davis. And 669 00:38:27,840 --> 00:38:30,510 yeah, I think I think he said it in black and white. 670 00:38:31,620 --> 00:38:34,860 Jay: But it's, you know, they're very, they're blurring the 671 00:38:34,860 --> 00:38:40,140 lines. This it's definitely linguistically created in a way 672 00:38:40,140 --> 00:38:43,170 that doesn't make them say that they are denying or confirming 673 00:38:43,170 --> 00:38:45,840 like, never have never held puts, or very Davis none of them 674 00:38:45,840 --> 00:38:48,660 have ever confirmed or denied. That's that that's kind of the 675 00:38:48,660 --> 00:38:52,950 point. They're sitting in this gray area, this little, no man's 676 00:38:52,950 --> 00:38:56,190 land between bureaucracy, bureaucracy and freedom of 677 00:38:56,190 --> 00:39:00,600 speech. And so they they're saying, I can't comment on or I 678 00:39:00,600 --> 00:39:03,690 can't confirm or deny. But then that's the point. Like you're 679 00:39:03,690 --> 00:39:07,200 saying, if if they say no, if they say, you know, no, it's not 680 00:39:07,200 --> 00:39:10,980 real. Are you saying that simply that the if they say, No, I 681 00:39:10,980 --> 00:39:14,190 refuse to comment on that they're in there in in essence, 682 00:39:14,190 --> 00:39:16,590 implicating the fact that it's potentially sensitive 683 00:39:16,590 --> 00:39:18,120 information? Is that what you're saying? 684 00:39:18,480 --> 00:39:21,690 John Greenewald: No, I'm saying that what I am seeing from those 685 00:39:21,690 --> 00:39:25,260 with security clearances are what you would legally be 686 00:39:25,290 --> 00:39:28,980 obligated to do, which is skirt, that gray area, that you're not 687 00:39:28,980 --> 00:39:32,940 taking a stance. I'll use a prime example in the press. In 688 00:39:32,940 --> 00:39:36,690 the the press briefing card that I just released that got through 689 00:39:36,690 --> 00:39:40,350 FOIA. It was created by the Pentagon on how to address UFO 690 00:39:40,350 --> 00:39:44,100 related questions. One of which was were your findings 691 00:39:44,340 --> 00:39:47,520 indicative of an extraterrestrial connection? And 692 00:39:47,520 --> 00:39:50,910 they didn't say yes or no. And although that's very 693 00:39:50,910 --> 00:39:54,600 interesting, from an intelligence standpoint, the 694 00:39:54,600 --> 00:39:58,770 moment you say no, you're already hinting at what's in 695 00:39:58,770 --> 00:40:02,970 your classified arena. So that's what I mean that that no comment 696 00:40:03,000 --> 00:40:06,870 is the gray zone. And what I would recommend, and we can move 697 00:40:06,870 --> 00:40:09,120 on or if you want to add anything else, please, I'm not 698 00:40:09,120 --> 00:40:12,450 cutting you off. But we can move on from the no comment stuff. 699 00:40:12,960 --> 00:40:18,300 But what I would say is, what you said how you are framing 700 00:40:18,300 --> 00:40:23,250 them, is exactly how those that if you reach out to those with 701 00:40:23,250 --> 00:40:26,970 clearances outside of the UFO arena, and just see how they 702 00:40:26,970 --> 00:40:30,570 would handle that, it that is what you're supposed to do. 703 00:40:30,840 --> 00:40:35,640 Yeah, do not negate it. You do not confirm it. You skate in the 704 00:40:35,640 --> 00:40:40,170 middle and to comment, even a hint. And this was also 705 00:40:40,170 --> 00:40:44,430 interesting that I didn't point out a few of them. They don't 706 00:40:44,430 --> 00:40:48,000 know each other. I want to beat that dead horse. A few of them 707 00:40:48,000 --> 00:40:52,020 said the exact same phrase, you're playing with fire. That 708 00:40:52,020 --> 00:40:56,070 that was the phrase that multiple clearance holders used 709 00:40:56,100 --> 00:41:00,030 with me trying to figure out how do people address classified, 710 00:41:00,060 --> 00:41:02,580 you know, potentially classified questions. 711 00:41:02,880 --> 00:41:04,710 Jay: I feel like we're getting I don't know if we're getting 712 00:41:04,710 --> 00:41:07,140 stuck in a loop here. So we might have to break it. But I 713 00:41:07,140 --> 00:41:10,470 just you saying that they say you never confirm it, nor you 714 00:41:10,470 --> 00:41:13,260 deny it, you kind of stay in this gray area? Yeah, it's 715 00:41:13,260 --> 00:41:15,390 relating to classified information. And that's what 716 00:41:15,390 --> 00:41:16,980 they've done. They haven't confirmed or denied they've 717 00:41:16,980 --> 00:41:20,340 stayed in this gray area. So it's not a script or a fiction. 718 00:41:20,340 --> 00:41:23,040 It's potentially classified information, right. But they're 719 00:41:23,040 --> 00:41:25,830 treating it like potentially classified information. 720 00:41:26,010 --> 00:41:27,810 John Greenewald: true or not that that's right. That's what 721 00:41:27,810 --> 00:41:31,290 they would have to do. And I think my grander point is that 722 00:41:31,290 --> 00:41:35,190 and I'm not putting this accusation on you. But in what 723 00:41:35,190 --> 00:41:38,850 I've seen about the Wilson Davis debate, is that the moment a no 724 00:41:38,850 --> 00:41:42,660 comment comes out, it's like a hot seat. toldja. They have to 725 00:41:42,660 --> 00:41:45,180 say that they're, they're, they're, they're lying, because 726 00:41:45,180 --> 00:41:48,480 they have to. And what I'm trying to say is, no, they're 727 00:41:48,480 --> 00:41:50,730 doing exactly what he was supposed to be they could they 728 00:41:50,730 --> 00:41:55,350 could know in their head, that it none of it is true. But the 729 00:41:55,350 --> 00:41:59,940 right answer is no comment that that is my overall point that 730 00:41:59,940 --> 00:42:01,470 none of that means 731 00:42:01,890 --> 00:42:04,530 Jay: to be why would they have to do that? If it's just a 732 00:42:04,530 --> 00:42:07,050 script? If it's just a fiction, then it's not classified 733 00:42:07,050 --> 00:42:08,850 information. So why the dance? 734 00:42:09,390 --> 00:42:11,370 John Greenewald: If it's a script, you're talking about, 735 00:42:11,370 --> 00:42:12,810 like the fun, I'm just 736 00:42:12,810 --> 00:42:14,970 Jay: saying, based on like your assertions that it's maybe a 737 00:42:14,970 --> 00:42:18,360 fictional situation, if it's fiction, if it's fictional, Eric 738 00:42:18,360 --> 00:42:21,270 Davis didn't write it, and he very well knows it. Why is he 739 00:42:21,270 --> 00:42:23,970 skirting a classified line of maybe I shouldn't talk about 740 00:42:23,970 --> 00:42:27,390 this. Why is he not going? Hell? No, I didn't write this. And 741 00:42:27,390 --> 00:42:29,940 this is about a real person, I have no Wilson, I'm not going to 742 00:42:29,940 --> 00:42:33,150 be put into this situation and made to seem like I'm doing this 743 00:42:33,300 --> 00:42:35,820 here protect his reputation. What I mean, like that's, that's 744 00:42:35,820 --> 00:42:38,250 kind of what I'm saying about this is my point. Why would they 745 00:42:38,250 --> 00:42:41,040 skirt the edges into this little gray area that you're saying is 746 00:42:41,040 --> 00:42:43,800 kind of the prerequisite to discussing national security, 747 00:42:43,920 --> 00:42:46,800 top secret clearance holding interests and sensitive data? 748 00:42:47,010 --> 00:42:49,590 Why would Why would they skirt in that little middle ground 749 00:42:49,590 --> 00:42:52,110 area of neither confirming or denying, which you just said is 750 00:42:52,110 --> 00:42:55,350 the protocol if it's not classified information, 751 00:42:55,740 --> 00:42:59,340 John Greenewald: because of how Dr. Davis answered it to Stephen 752 00:42:59,340 --> 00:43:02,910 Green Street and the quote that you just read that that that 753 00:43:02,910 --> 00:43:07,260 they don't want to touch it and again, I'm not using that just 754 00:43:07,260 --> 00:43:11,130 to base what I'm saying on I'm talking about and I would 755 00:43:11,130 --> 00:43:13,890 recommend you do this as well reach out to people with 756 00:43:13,890 --> 00:43:17,100 security clearances that are willing to talk and ask them and 757 00:43:17,100 --> 00:43:20,610 explore that. I do know people with security clearances, it's 758 00:43:20,610 --> 00:43:23,010 just the you said specifically outside and outside Yeah, and 759 00:43:23,010 --> 00:43:24,180 that's what I mean because 760 00:43:24,510 --> 00:43:26,790 Jay: but even within that they still had security clearances 761 00:43:26,790 --> 00:43:30,150 and and many of them are pro the Wilson law documents are a 762 00:43:30,150 --> 00:43:33,810 recent one is Bob McGuire and not Bob McGuire, even though 763 00:43:33,810 --> 00:43:37,920 he's he supports Frank Milburn, who was a former British Special 764 00:43:37,920 --> 00:43:42,240 Forces intelligence guy. And and he's behind them now. So I think 765 00:43:42,240 --> 00:43:45,150 that there's a few different card holding individuals that go 766 00:43:45,180 --> 00:43:48,450 Yeah, that seems legit logical, and Frank Milburn's recently 767 00:43:48,450 --> 00:43:50,490 come around on that he was previously skeptical. And he 768 00:43:50,490 --> 00:43:52,950 said, You know what, after really looking into this, and 769 00:43:52,950 --> 00:43:55,740 he's been doing work with I know that, you know, Brit Britain 770 00:43:55,740 --> 00:44:00,660 Wonderland, that lovely young lady. And, and he's now 771 00:44:00,660 --> 00:44:04,050 convinced that they are real. So there are people within the UFO 772 00:44:04,050 --> 00:44:08,250 circles, who did hold security clearances, who are familiar 773 00:44:08,250 --> 00:44:11,010 with the structure of that kind of, you know, kind of 774 00:44:11,010 --> 00:44:13,470 bureaucratic system of what you can and can't say, I mean, Frank 775 00:44:13,470 --> 00:44:16,290 Milburn knows he's under the Official Secrets Act. And trust 776 00:44:16,290 --> 00:44:19,410 me, I mean, you should know, the British Official Secrets Act is 777 00:44:19,410 --> 00:44:21,750 kind of a few levels above what you guys have got in the States, 778 00:44:21,750 --> 00:44:27,330 we do not talk about anything. And so he knows when things are 779 00:44:27,330 --> 00:44:30,180 kind of skirting the edges. And you know, I've asked questions 780 00:44:30,180 --> 00:44:33,660 to him and where he can't answer them. So I think there are 781 00:44:33,660 --> 00:44:36,360 people who are, you know, very knowledgeable of the inner 782 00:44:36,360 --> 00:44:39,540 workings of government security clearances, and what you can and 783 00:44:39,540 --> 00:44:41,550 can't say, who are on the side of this being real. 784 00:44:42,210 --> 00:44:45,240 John Greenewald: So let's sum up and if you want to add anything, 785 00:44:45,240 --> 00:44:48,030 by all means, I'm not cutting you off. But let's let's move on 786 00:44:48,030 --> 00:44:52,050 from the no comment stuff. And talk about the credibility of 787 00:44:52,050 --> 00:44:57,150 the individuals involved. I spoke briefly about Dr. Davis's 788 00:44:57,690 --> 00:45:01,170 information that he's disseminated about at He in 789 00:45:01,170 --> 00:45:03,930 public forum says you'll never find anything with a tip because 790 00:45:03,930 --> 00:45:07,260 it has to go. I think his quote was 25 years before it can be 791 00:45:07,260 --> 00:45:12,150 reviewed, all of which is provably false. And my question 792 00:45:12,180 --> 00:45:16,500 to you is do any of these players, which have turned up 793 00:45:16,500 --> 00:45:19,890 and a lot of different stories, you talk about Project serpo? 794 00:45:20,130 --> 00:45:23,550 You know, you talk about some of these crazy out there stories 795 00:45:23,550 --> 00:45:26,970 that have been around for many, many, many years. They all seem 796 00:45:26,970 --> 00:45:30,330 to keep turning up. Dr. Davis is one of them that has turned up 797 00:45:30,540 --> 00:45:35,370 in a couple of these types of situations. Do you feel across 798 00:45:35,370 --> 00:45:40,770 the board that the main characters involved forgive the 799 00:45:40,770 --> 00:45:45,600 word choice there, but the main people are credible? And you 800 00:45:46,350 --> 00:45:48,090 don't question when they talk? 801 00:45:48,930 --> 00:45:51,960 Jay: I don't think necessarily, I would say that I don't ever 802 00:45:51,960 --> 00:45:56,370 question when they talk. You know, I've got a feel a healthy 803 00:45:56,400 --> 00:46:00,390 drip of skepticism with a lot of different people that have come 804 00:46:00,390 --> 00:46:03,120 out of the government structure into the UFO community in 805 00:46:03,120 --> 00:46:06,480 whatever way and you know, I try and make sure I'm not being 806 00:46:06,480 --> 00:46:11,880 overly biased on either on either side. But um, you know, I 807 00:46:11,880 --> 00:46:16,650 think, I think when it comes to Eric Davis, I didn't actually I 808 00:46:16,650 --> 00:46:19,080 didn't know about the ATF stuff. So you know, this is where your, 809 00:46:19,500 --> 00:46:22,890 for your research and your expertise is shining a light on 810 00:46:22,890 --> 00:46:27,090 something. But I do think that Eric Davis has developed as 811 00:46:27,090 --> 00:46:31,470 demonstrated, even if you want to question his credibility, and 812 00:46:31,470 --> 00:46:33,750 I'm sorry, if you're listening to this, Eric, because I do 813 00:46:33,750 --> 00:46:34,920 appreciate you know, 814 00:46:34,950 --> 00:46:36,870 John Greenewald: what, you're he's big, he's a big fan of the 815 00:46:36,870 --> 00:46:37,800 show. So that's 816 00:46:38,700 --> 00:46:41,160 Jay: what you're doing, Eric, but you know, he's, he's kind of 817 00:46:41,160 --> 00:46:43,620 been demonstrated to have a bit of an ego and especially there 818 00:46:43,620 --> 00:46:47,400 has been some, you know, publicly put out email threads 819 00:46:47,640 --> 00:46:51,810 to bring actually bank back to Frank Melbourne in his baisa 820 00:46:51,810 --> 00:46:55,320 Center, the Center for Strategic Studies, white paper that he did 821 00:46:55,320 --> 00:46:57,390 for this defense journalists that well, this kind of think 822 00:46:57,390 --> 00:47:02,610 tank, he had in there some email exchanges between Eric Davis and 823 00:47:02,610 --> 00:47:06,630 jack sarfati, and a few other individuals. And you know, Eric 824 00:47:06,630 --> 00:47:09,900 Davis's personality sure does come across when he's when he's 825 00:47:09,900 --> 00:47:13,560 kind of being questioned. And and Joe murgia, can attest to 826 00:47:13,560 --> 00:47:19,500 this, that he is very no BS kind of person. This is a story that 827 00:47:19,500 --> 00:47:25,380 is telling a bold faced lie about Eric Davis. And if that's 828 00:47:25,380 --> 00:47:27,930 the case, that's what I you know, hypothetically, if, if 829 00:47:27,930 --> 00:47:31,590 it's just a fiction, he would he would have to say something 830 00:47:31,590 --> 00:47:35,670 about it, there's no way that he would like the very, you know, 831 00:47:35,670 --> 00:47:38,340 twisty turny quote that I just gave you from Steven green 832 00:47:38,340 --> 00:47:41,100 streets interview about security restrictions in the Obama 833 00:47:41,100 --> 00:47:43,800 administration and how he can't talk about potentially ongoing 834 00:47:43,800 --> 00:47:47,550 programs. That's just not Eric, that's not Eric, that does not 835 00:47:47,550 --> 00:47:51,480 work if it's if it's about him, and it's a lie, and it's making 836 00:47:51,480 --> 00:47:53,820 him seem like he's doing something that would suck would 837 00:47:53,820 --> 00:47:57,360 tarnish his reputation. I mean, you know, if if, if he doesn't 838 00:47:57,390 --> 00:48:00,660 address the fact that a document that is in very clear 839 00:48:00,660 --> 00:48:04,020 circulation of the public's, you know, the public's sphere, I 840 00:48:04,020 --> 00:48:06,990 mean, within the niche of your apology, but still very much in 841 00:48:06,990 --> 00:48:10,290 the public sphere and accessible to the public. If there was a 842 00:48:10,290 --> 00:48:12,900 series of documents that were saying that he had gone to this 843 00:48:13,170 --> 00:48:16,350 interview with, you know, a former director of the CIA, a 844 00:48:16,350 --> 00:48:21,240 real person that they're really naming, he wouldn't let that sit 845 00:48:21,240 --> 00:48:26,100 by I just I don't see that I see a very big disconnect between 846 00:48:26,100 --> 00:48:30,810 his actual personality trend, and this and this idea, because 847 00:48:30,990 --> 00:48:33,750 you're right, maybe, you know, he's obviously done things that 848 00:48:33,780 --> 00:48:37,140 would make us question some of his credibility in terms of what 849 00:48:37,140 --> 00:48:39,270 he says, and then he releases some documents, and he wasn't 850 00:48:39,270 --> 00:48:42,240 supposed to or whatever that situation is that you're you're 851 00:48:42,240 --> 00:48:45,330 highlighting there about the ativ situation. I think that 852 00:48:45,330 --> 00:48:48,480 that doesn't detract from the fact that people who know Eric 853 00:48:48,480 --> 00:48:52,410 Davis have said he would not put up with this, he would stomp his 854 00:48:52,410 --> 00:48:52,980 foot down. 855 00:48:53,129 --> 00:48:56,579 John Greenewald: Let me since you brought up the ego, we are 856 00:48:56,579 --> 00:49:02,909 100% in in agreement there. He strikes me as somebody who would 857 00:49:02,909 --> 00:49:06,659 want the attention. Do you believe that that? I mean, have 858 00:49:06,659 --> 00:49:12,989 you considered that this group and I don't want to just pick on 859 00:49:12,989 --> 00:49:19,799 him, but he absolutely. I think collectively we see that ego may 860 00:49:19,799 --> 00:49:25,949 love that attention. And by playing into that, you feed that 861 00:49:25,949 --> 00:49:31,949 ego I mean, I'm not saying that's 100% it but I'm saying 862 00:49:31,949 --> 00:49:35,369 you can't get away from that, that when when some of these 863 00:49:35,369 --> 00:49:40,109 guys and I'm broadening it here just to not pick on him. I truly 864 00:49:40,109 --> 00:49:45,539 believe that they want the mystique around their character 865 00:49:46,679 --> 00:49:51,989 to just make it seemed like they are either more important more 866 00:49:51,989 --> 00:49:56,969 in the no more read in that maybe they really are. And I 867 00:49:56,969 --> 00:50:01,529 hate to say it, but he strikes me as the same And I go back to 868 00:50:01,529 --> 00:50:06,059 that, again that that public display of of information, 869 00:50:06,539 --> 00:50:09,989 educating public forums about document, declassification, and 870 00:50:09,989 --> 00:50:14,279 so on. That's just not true. And so what was that? Right? You 871 00:50:14,279 --> 00:50:16,649 have a couple different things. It could just be he didn't know. 872 00:50:16,679 --> 00:50:20,129 And that's fine. totally understandable. But he didn't 873 00:50:20,129 --> 00:50:25,079 care about any type of rebuttal with cited sources and so on. So 874 00:50:25,079 --> 00:50:30,569 then is it misinformation? Is he maliciously doing that? Or is it 875 00:50:30,809 --> 00:50:34,679 I want the attention, and I know more than this entire forum. So 876 00:50:34,679 --> 00:50:39,479 I am going to tell everybody how much I know. Does he strike you 877 00:50:39,509 --> 00:50:40,979 as that type of a person? 878 00:50:43,830 --> 00:50:46,440 Jay: Well, I think it's worth considering Now, of course, but 879 00:50:46,440 --> 00:50:48,780 I think that it's probably caused more probably seems to 880 00:50:48,780 --> 00:50:51,600 have caused more problems than it has he it's not like he's 881 00:50:51,600 --> 00:50:55,470 exactly keen to mention it. He never mentions it unless someone 882 00:50:55,470 --> 00:50:58,650 brings it up. And then he's kind of tries to skirt around it. And 883 00:50:58,650 --> 00:51:01,170 in fact, he won't answer anything now because he's in 884 00:51:01,170 --> 00:51:04,500 Aerospace Corporation. An Aerospace Corporation is a big 885 00:51:04,500 --> 00:51:08,400 deal. And and he won't talk to anyone now about anything that 886 00:51:08,400 --> 00:51:11,280 could be going on to an open record statement. And I think 887 00:51:11,280 --> 00:51:15,360 that people like how and Eric, I don't know them, I've never met 888 00:51:15,360 --> 00:51:18,510 them personally. And although you said that you feel I've 889 00:51:18,510 --> 00:51:21,300 spoken to how I actually haven't, I haven't had any 890 00:51:22,020 --> 00:51:22,950 apologies, I 891 00:51:22,950 --> 00:51:25,020 John Greenewald: thought you had apologize. 892 00:51:26,040 --> 00:51:27,960 Jay: I'm just just confirming for the record, you know, I 893 00:51:27,960 --> 00:51:30,930 haven't had close interactions with these people. I've had a 894 00:51:30,930 --> 00:51:34,020 couple of email exchanges very Davis. But the last one was 895 00:51:34,050 --> 00:51:36,390 basically saying now that I'm with Aerospace Corporation, I 896 00:51:36,390 --> 00:51:39,210 can't answer any questions that you know, yada, yada. I think 897 00:51:39,210 --> 00:51:41,580 that I honestly think these people are probably trying to 898 00:51:41,580 --> 00:51:44,220 get the golden ticket. I think they want to get into the inner 899 00:51:44,250 --> 00:51:47,610 sanctum of these classified programs and find out as much as 900 00:51:47,610 --> 00:51:51,210 possible. And and who knows, potentially, maybe every day, 901 00:51:51,210 --> 00:51:53,790 there are people that believe that Aerospace Corporation could 902 00:51:53,790 --> 00:51:57,690 be one of the, you know, core secret corporations, they didn't 903 00:51:57,690 --> 00:52:00,480 want to mention in the documents. Of course, that is 904 00:52:00,510 --> 00:52:04,530 pretty much just speculation. But um, it's it's a big deal. 905 00:52:04,770 --> 00:52:08,250 aerospace defense contractor. And, and so I think that there's 906 00:52:08,250 --> 00:52:12,810 no questioning Eric's intelligence and capability and 907 00:52:12,840 --> 00:52:15,990 obviously, his portfolio, I mean, his portfolio must be very 908 00:52:15,990 --> 00:52:19,170 impressive. And and actually, one thing that I think is quite 909 00:52:19,170 --> 00:52:22,560 important, because you mentioned data, but Lou Elizondo has also 910 00:52:22,560 --> 00:52:25,710 made statements that I think, push the needle forward a little 911 00:52:25,710 --> 00:52:28,200 further on two separate interviews, he's been asked 912 00:52:28,200 --> 00:52:30,660 about the Wilson documents where I mean, he's been asked about it 913 00:52:30,660 --> 00:52:33,720 a few times, but on these specific interviews, his 914 00:52:33,720 --> 00:52:36,150 response was that he could not speak about the documents or 915 00:52:36,150 --> 00:52:39,390 verify, verify them in any way, which is what he always says. 916 00:52:40,650 --> 00:52:42,870 But he finished both of these interview responses by saying 917 00:52:42,870 --> 00:52:45,600 that how put off and Eric Davis are two of the most brilliant, 918 00:52:45,600 --> 00:52:48,270 most intelligent, connected and respected people, he knows you 919 00:52:48,270 --> 00:52:51,270 really, he really talked them up. And he also said, He only 920 00:52:51,270 --> 00:52:54,630 said this once or twice, but definitely once. He said he 921 00:52:54,630 --> 00:52:57,990 believes Eric Davis is incapable of lying. Now, I know that I'm 922 00:52:57,990 --> 00:53:01,530 inviting you to read between the lines, but I don't. I don't 923 00:53:01,530 --> 00:53:05,550 know. I mean, don't you think that it's appropriate for a 924 00:53:05,550 --> 00:53:07,980 counter intelligence officer to make these kind of statements, 925 00:53:07,980 --> 00:53:09,990 you know, you need to read between the lines of these 926 00:53:09,990 --> 00:53:13,140 people sometimes and and he's saying that he believes Eric 927 00:53:13,140 --> 00:53:16,110 Davis is incapable of lying. And he's saying that in response to 928 00:53:16,110 --> 00:53:18,300 a question about the authenticity of the Wilson 929 00:53:18,300 --> 00:53:22,020 documents. So you know, what he seems to be inferring here is 930 00:53:22,020 --> 00:53:24,930 that Eric Davis has never confirmed these were false 931 00:53:24,930 --> 00:53:28,800 documents, because Eric Davis is incapable of lying and and to 932 00:53:28,800 --> 00:53:31,380 say they were fake would be to tell a lie. So he's telling us 933 00:53:31,380 --> 00:53:33,840 they are legitimate. Obviously, I do understand we are reading 934 00:53:33,840 --> 00:53:37,620 between lines. And it's it's not fact we're not. But that's not 935 00:53:37,620 --> 00:53:39,570 what I'm trying to present. I don't think that we're dealing 936 00:53:39,570 --> 00:53:42,180 entirely in facts. I think there's some very interesting 937 00:53:42,180 --> 00:53:44,970 data points around the corner circumference of this whole 938 00:53:45,090 --> 00:53:48,360 leak. But there are also just some very interesting comments 939 00:53:48,360 --> 00:53:50,880 and statements and things like this where, you know, Lou 940 00:53:50,880 --> 00:53:54,180 Elizondo is just really not wanting to talk about it. But 941 00:53:54,180 --> 00:53:57,870 then he really brings up the credibility of these two people 942 00:53:57,870 --> 00:54:00,900 and says they're fantastic. And Eric can't lie. Like, you know, 943 00:54:00,900 --> 00:54:04,020 he's basically incapable of lying. I just feel like they're 944 00:54:04,020 --> 00:54:06,360 making these statements on purpose, you know, like, 945 00:54:07,920 --> 00:54:10,440 John Greenewald: I mean, sure, I don't I don't think we'll find 946 00:54:10,440 --> 00:54:13,950 common ground there with what Luis Elizondo said about the 947 00:54:13,950 --> 00:54:16,920 documents and not commenting again, reinforces the security 948 00:54:16,920 --> 00:54:20,160 clearance, potentially, you know, commenting on behalf of 949 00:54:20,160 --> 00:54:22,860 the US government. I'll throw this out really quickly and 950 00:54:22,860 --> 00:54:27,360 we'll move on but with Luis Elizondo you'll note on on many 951 00:54:27,360 --> 00:54:31,080 of his interviews, he constantly says I'm not speaking on behalf 952 00:54:31,080 --> 00:54:33,960 of the US government. There's a reason why he says stuff like 953 00:54:33,960 --> 00:54:38,040 that and I truly believe it is because you know, he has to be 954 00:54:38,040 --> 00:54:41,670 very careful and and the way he answered that is is right on 955 00:54:41,670 --> 00:54:44,940 board with anybody with a clearance but with Eric Davis, 956 00:54:44,940 --> 00:54:46,080 what I'm you know, 957 00:54:47,100 --> 00:54:49,680 Jay: I go I'm not trying to beat a dead horse, but I go back to 958 00:54:49,680 --> 00:54:51,990 that, that misinformation, whatever you want to call it. 959 00:54:52,350 --> 00:54:55,770 Whether that was a malicious lie, I really don't know. But 960 00:54:56,400 --> 00:55:00,390 maybe the guy can't lie, but he could be misinformed or he Can 961 00:55:00,630 --> 00:55:03,270 you No, absolutely post information that isn't true? 962 00:55:03,270 --> 00:55:06,570 Because that part is, is provable? And that's what's kind 963 00:55:06,570 --> 00:55:10,080 of frustrating about how that makes us informed about 964 00:55:10,080 --> 00:55:12,870 something he supposedly wrote, you can't be misinformed about 965 00:55:12,870 --> 00:55:15,900 something that supposedly you wrote. I mean, he either didn't 966 00:55:15,900 --> 00:55:20,400 write it, or he did write it. And so if you didn't write it, I 967 00:55:20,400 --> 00:55:23,130 really don't see why he'll be making the comments he's making 968 00:55:23,130 --> 00:55:26,280 now, which there needs to be a desperate escaped to try and 969 00:55:26,280 --> 00:55:30,090 escape, acknowledging or denying they're real. I mean, like you 970 00:55:30,090 --> 00:55:32,430 said, he's got a bit of an ego. Maybe he's trying to show it, 971 00:55:32,430 --> 00:55:35,460 and maybe he's trying to show off, but I don't know, I just I 972 00:55:35,460 --> 00:55:39,120 just think that another part of his personality is the fact that 973 00:55:39,120 --> 00:55:41,730 he wouldn't want to be tied towards something that would 974 00:55:41,760 --> 00:55:46,020 affect his ability to network his reputation if it was known 975 00:55:46,230 --> 00:55:49,110 that, like internally, I'm not saying publicly if it was known 976 00:55:49,110 --> 00:55:52,800 internally, that this was just nonsense, that it wasn't true. I 977 00:55:52,800 --> 00:55:55,440 just don't see why Eric Davis would make these comments. And 978 00:55:55,440 --> 00:55:58,800 also, I think that we have to fall back on Edgar Mitchell, 979 00:55:58,800 --> 00:56:00,930 because Edgar Mitchell was a part of the briefings, the 980 00:56:00,930 --> 00:56:04,560 initial Pentagon briefings, and there are other people in this 981 00:56:04,560 --> 00:56:07,710 that seem to confirm the fact that there was, you know, a 982 00:56:07,710 --> 00:56:10,680 report generated later by someone like Gary Davis, I mean, 983 00:56:10,680 --> 00:56:14,190 Commander Miller received a phone call from Admiral Wilson, 984 00:56:14,190 --> 00:56:16,890 he even acknowledged he received a phone call. And Edgar Mitchell 985 00:56:16,890 --> 00:56:19,800 said on a couple of different occasions, that they received a 986 00:56:19,800 --> 00:56:22,830 phone call. In fact, you know, I've got the quote here from 987 00:56:22,830 --> 00:56:27,360 when Edgar Mitchell was on CNN with Larry King. And he said, I 988 00:56:27,360 --> 00:56:30,480 eventually went to the Pentagon and asked for a meeting with the 989 00:56:30,480 --> 00:56:33,330 Intelligence Committee of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, which I 990 00:56:33,330 --> 00:56:36,300 got with another naval officer who had many similar 991 00:56:36,300 --> 00:56:39,570 experiences. And we told our story, and I just want to break 992 00:56:39,570 --> 00:56:41,820 from the quotes and just mention, for those that aren't 993 00:56:41,820 --> 00:56:44,070 aware that Edgar Mitchell's referring to this Pentagon 994 00:56:44,070 --> 00:56:46,350 meeting, this initial meeting that had been confirmed to have 995 00:56:46,350 --> 00:56:49,170 taken base, even by Admiral Wilson, Admiral Wilson confirmed 996 00:56:49,170 --> 00:56:51,540 this meeting took place. And this was the one with Edgar 997 00:56:51,540 --> 00:56:54,420 Mitchell commander Miller, Dr. Steven Greer, where they 998 00:56:54,420 --> 00:56:58,500 presented, you know, lots of different information, including 999 00:56:58,530 --> 00:57:01,110 a National Reconnaissance Office document, we've listed code 1000 00:57:01,110 --> 00:57:03,930 names and programs. So just to continue with the quote, he 1001 00:57:03,930 --> 00:57:06,870 said, I went with another naval officer who had many similar 1002 00:57:06,870 --> 00:57:10,170 experiences. And we told our story. And this gentleman, a 1003 00:57:10,170 --> 00:57:14,160 vice admiral said to us, well, I don't know about that. But I'm 1004 00:57:14,160 --> 00:57:17,550 going to find out and called a few weeks later, and said he had 1005 00:57:17,550 --> 00:57:20,400 found the source of the black budget funding for this project, 1006 00:57:20,640 --> 00:57:23,130 and that he was going to subsequently investigate because 1007 00:57:23,130 --> 00:57:25,800 if it was real, he should know about it. As a matter of fact, 1008 00:57:25,800 --> 00:57:31,170 you should be in charge, those will come in sometime later. And 1009 00:57:31,170 --> 00:57:34,050 a report much later than that. They had found the people 1010 00:57:34,050 --> 00:57:36,990 responsible for the cover up and the people in the know, and was 1011 00:57:36,990 --> 00:57:39,330 told, I'm sorry, you do not have a need to know here. And so 1012 00:57:39,330 --> 00:57:42,510 goodbye. And this is also in the notes where Admiral Wilson 1013 00:57:42,510 --> 00:57:46,950 expresses his aggravation towards commander Miller for 1014 00:57:46,980 --> 00:57:50,610 actually telling Steven Greer that this phone call took place 1015 00:57:50,610 --> 00:57:53,700 when Admiral Wilson called up to basically after this initial 1016 00:57:53,700 --> 00:57:56,340 brief briefing took place. Admiral Wilson calls up a few 1017 00:57:56,340 --> 00:58:00,240 weeks later tells commander Miller Yeah, this is real, I 1018 00:58:00,240 --> 00:58:04,020 found this organization, I think he even mentions mj 12. And some 1019 00:58:04,020 --> 00:58:07,710 other things. And and then, and then this was laid down the 1020 00:58:07,710 --> 00:58:11,670 grapevine from commander Miller to Edgar Mitchell and to Steven 1021 00:58:11,670 --> 00:58:15,510 Greer. And so Edgar Mitchell's telling us about the phone calls 1022 00:58:15,510 --> 00:58:18,300 and the latest report being generated before this document 1023 00:58:18,300 --> 00:58:22,680 comes out back in the 90s. Back on Stephen, on Larry King. So 1024 00:58:22,680 --> 00:58:24,630 it's just like, there's so many different like, kind of 1025 00:58:24,630 --> 00:58:27,960 chronological areas to go with this where it's not just we're 1026 00:58:27,960 --> 00:58:30,660 not just relying on Eric statements or house statements, 1027 00:58:30,660 --> 00:58:34,860 or, you know, we've got quite a few different people and a long 1028 00:58:34,860 --> 00:58:37,950 stretch of history where this is being addressed before even 1029 00:58:37,950 --> 00:58:41,550 becomes public knowledge. So I just think that there's there's 1030 00:58:41,550 --> 00:58:44,880 a lot of converging points, which seemed to push it towards 1031 00:58:44,880 --> 00:58:46,440 being legitimate in my opinion. 1032 00:58:46,740 --> 00:58:49,140 John Greenewald: So you said the 90s just a quick point of 1033 00:58:49,140 --> 00:58:51,930 clarification. So the Edgar Mitchell thing on CNN was July 1034 00:58:51,930 --> 00:58:56,520 4 2008. Sorry, no, no, that that's, that's okay. It. I 1035 00:58:56,520 --> 00:58:59,310 wasn't trying to call you out on it. But but it leads into the 1036 00:58:59,310 --> 00:59:04,590 chronology of my next question, which that was July 4 2008. In 1037 00:59:04,590 --> 00:59:10,110 2006, going backwards, Steven Greer had talked about this as 1038 00:59:10,110 --> 00:59:14,760 well. And I can read just just the last passage of it. 1039 00:59:15,330 --> 00:59:17,730 Essentially, everything's the same. So for time purposes, I'm 1040 00:59:17,730 --> 00:59:21,480 not going to read you know, everything here. But in 2006, 1041 00:59:21,480 --> 00:59:26,070 Dr. Steven Greer said after Wilson was denied, he says, Now, 1042 00:59:26,100 --> 00:59:29,190 you can imagine being an admiral j to the head of intelligence 1043 00:59:29,190 --> 00:59:32,310 for the Joint Chiefs of Staff at the Pentagon and being told 1044 00:59:32,340 --> 00:59:36,060 we're not going to tell you well, he was shocked and angry. 1045 00:59:37,080 --> 00:59:42,510 Going backwards again in 2001. Steven Greer at a portland 1046 00:59:42,510 --> 00:59:47,010 oregon talk in September of 2001. Again, skipping the whole 1047 00:59:47,010 --> 00:59:49,860 quote, but but finishing it up and essentially the head of 1048 00:59:49,860 --> 00:59:53,670 intelligent Joint Staff said, I'm horrified that this is true. 1049 00:59:53,670 --> 00:59:56,100 I've been in plenty of black projects, but when we tried to 1050 00:59:56,100 --> 01:00:00,420 get into this one, he was told and I quote Sir, you Do not have 1051 01:00:00,420 --> 01:00:03,240 a need to know the head of intelligent joints, the joint 1052 01:00:03,570 --> 01:00:08,610 staffs, you don't have a need to know. So there's multiple 1053 01:00:08,610 --> 01:00:13,320 instances where, again, Admiral Wilson reaches out, he's denied 1054 01:00:13,530 --> 01:00:16,410 the way that Mitchell says it, essentially he's like hung up 1055 01:00:16,410 --> 01:00:20,010 on, they say goodbye, you know, they don't do it. The notes has 1056 01:00:20,010 --> 01:00:25,410 a different story. The story is he, he was he denied Sure, 1057 01:00:25,410 --> 01:00:30,780 arguably, but he flies out, meets in a vault gets all of the 1058 01:00:30,780 --> 01:00:35,880 information about the program. So in in in one breath, so to 1059 01:00:35,880 --> 01:00:38,880 speak, there's three instances where Greer and Mitchell are 1060 01:00:38,880 --> 01:00:43,260 saying he tried but failed, then the notes has a completely 1061 01:00:43,260 --> 01:00:48,060 different story, where he flies out goes to see the private 1062 01:00:48,060 --> 01:00:51,270 contractor gets told, essentially the confirmation 1063 01:00:51,270 --> 01:00:55,260 about alien technology, and so on and so forth. And there's so 1064 01:00:55,260 --> 01:00:59,400 many other details. Now with the chronology. The notes were 1065 01:00:59,400 --> 01:01:05,940 written in 2002. So from 2002 to 2008, on Larry King, why 1066 01:01:05,940 --> 01:01:10,080 wouldn't Mitchell say what I would consider the climax of the 1067 01:01:10,080 --> 01:01:14,550 story, which is Yeah, Wilson was denied. But he sat there with 1068 01:01:14,550 --> 01:01:18,240 the contractors and the attorneys, and got stone called 1069 01:01:18,240 --> 01:01:22,470 confirmation that the that they had extraterrestrial technology. 1070 01:01:22,830 --> 01:01:27,090 Why in all of those instance, instances, is the story in the 1071 01:01:27,090 --> 01:01:29,520 notes different than all of the rest? 1072 01:01:29,670 --> 01:01:32,490 Jay: Well, there isn't that there's actually another quote 1073 01:01:32,490 --> 01:01:35,010 that I've got from Edgar Mitchell on this where he and 1074 01:01:35,370 --> 01:01:40,080 I've got a link to where this took place. I think it was 1075 01:01:40,080 --> 01:01:43,620 actually believe it or not a discovery channel interview it 1076 01:01:43,620 --> 01:01:47,670 was on it was found on the on the Wayback Machine. I don't 1077 01:01:47,670 --> 01:01:50,040 know if it's actually still publicly available. But I've got 1078 01:01:50,040 --> 01:01:54,960 a link. And he says, I did take my story to the Pentagon, not 1079 01:01:54,960 --> 01:01:58,020 NASA, but the Pentagon and asked for a meeting with the 1080 01:01:58,020 --> 01:02:00,510 Intelligence Committee of the Joint Chiefs of Staff and got it 1081 01:02:00,510 --> 01:02:04,830 and told them my story. And ignite, I won't skip it, 1082 01:02:04,830 --> 01:02:06,840 actually, because it's important that we say, No, no, read the 1083 01:02:06,840 --> 01:02:10,140 whole thing, and told them my story and what I know and 1084 01:02:10,140 --> 01:02:13,170 eventually had that confirmed by the admiral that I spoke with 1085 01:02:13,380 --> 01:02:16,140 that indeed, what I was saying was true. In other words, there 1086 01:02:16,140 --> 01:02:20,070 was a UFO crash, there was an alien spacecraft, this gentleman 1087 01:02:20,070 --> 01:02:23,280 tried his damnedest to get in. And like so many of us in the 1088 01:02:23,280 --> 01:02:27,540 administration over the last 60 years, since j, JFK, his time, 1089 01:02:27,810 --> 01:02:30,390 was unable to he was told Admiral, you don't have a need 1090 01:02:30,390 --> 01:02:32,760 to know and therefore go get lost. So it's a similar 1091 01:02:32,760 --> 01:02:35,340 statement, but he does mention the fact that there was a UFO 1092 01:02:35,340 --> 01:02:38,280 crash, there was an alien spacecraft, this gentleman tried 1093 01:02:38,280 --> 01:02:41,520 his damnedest to get in. So it was 1094 01:02:41,520 --> 01:02:43,530 John Greenewald: when was that Discovery Channel interview? 1095 01:02:43,530 --> 01:02:45,090 Because I haven't seen that quote. 1096 01:02:45,330 --> 01:02:48,450 Jay: Let me get it up on the links that I've, I've got with 1097 01:02:48,720 --> 01:02:50,700 with me in my emails, hang on a second. 1098 01:02:50,760 --> 01:02:52,230 John Greenewald: Yeah, no worries. And then we'll put it 1099 01:02:52,230 --> 01:02:53,730 in the show notes as well. 1100 01:02:53,940 --> 01:02:57,330 Jay: Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. But yeah, I just 1101 01:02:57,330 --> 01:03:02,370 think i think that some of these statements by Edgar Mitchell, I 1102 01:03:02,370 --> 01:03:06,720 really don't think that they should be avoided or kind of 1103 01:03:06,720 --> 01:03:10,920 ignored, because we don't seem to be confirming peripheral 1104 01:03:10,950 --> 01:03:13,470 evidence about what was described in the notes. Now, 1105 01:03:13,500 --> 01:03:16,590 you're right, is none of it to the baits or none of it. And 1106 01:03:16,590 --> 01:03:19,200 now, you know, and aberle went to the programs and was denied 1107 01:03:19,200 --> 01:03:22,410 access to the programs. And, you know, but he did fly out and 1108 01:03:22,410 --> 01:03:26,100 meet these people. Perhaps there's reasons why he decided 1109 01:03:26,100 --> 01:03:29,250 that level of information should be remained, you know, he might 1110 01:03:29,250 --> 01:03:33,480 have even been told by Eric or how, like, don't be too 1111 01:03:33,480 --> 01:03:36,480 specific. Let's not talk about this too intensely. Obviously, 1112 01:03:36,480 --> 01:03:39,240 I'm speculating here. But I'm just saying that the sensuality 1113 01:03:39,240 --> 01:03:43,290 is for there to be other reasons why he would not be extremely 1114 01:03:43,290 --> 01:03:46,650 explicit. But he still makes the point that he went and he spoke 1115 01:03:46,650 --> 01:03:49,590 to a vice admiral, this Vice Admiral went off. And I think 1116 01:03:49,590 --> 01:03:54,090 what's interesting here is, you know, if we're going to take 1117 01:03:54,120 --> 01:03:57,840 Edgar Mitchell's word for this, that does run contrary to 1118 01:03:57,870 --> 01:04:00,270 Admiral Wilson statements, because Admiral Wilson says he 1119 01:04:00,270 --> 01:04:02,910 didn't do any subsequent investigation after that initial 1120 01:04:02,910 --> 01:04:06,660 briefing took place at the Pentagon. And Edgar Mitchell 1121 01:04:06,660 --> 01:04:09,060 says he does. He says he does multiple times. I mean, 1122 01:04:09,060 --> 01:04:12,540 obviously, again, doesn't say Admiral Thomas R. Wilson, but he 1123 01:04:12,540 --> 01:04:14,970 says the Vice Admiral he was told Well, I don't know about 1124 01:04:14,970 --> 01:04:17,040 that. I'm going to find out when to find out. I was told he 1125 01:04:17,040 --> 01:04:19,950 couldn't get in, told them that he couldn't get in. So So. 1126 01:04:21,090 --> 01:04:23,880 John Greenewald: Yeah, you and and we'll add the link that 1127 01:04:23,880 --> 01:04:26,070 you're talking to. So you can send that to me after the show. 1128 01:04:26,070 --> 01:04:29,370 And I'll update the notes and everything. But you you bring up 1129 01:04:29,370 --> 01:04:32,370 a great segue to my next question, which is Admiral 1130 01:04:32,400 --> 01:04:36,330 Thomas Wilson. And going back earlier in the show you were 1131 01:04:36,330 --> 01:04:39,240 talking about the honor and integrity of Edgar Mitchell and 1132 01:04:39,240 --> 01:04:43,800 for that I have no objection, and 100% in agreement with you. 1133 01:04:44,340 --> 01:04:47,400 I would also argue the same could be attributed to Admiral 1134 01:04:47,400 --> 01:04:52,410 Thomas Wilson. Obviously a very distinguished military career, 1135 01:04:52,950 --> 01:04:56,460 highly regarded, you know, no controversy or anything in the 1136 01:04:56,460 --> 01:05:01,080 sense that he left, dishonorably or anything like that. He says 1137 01:05:01,080 --> 01:05:06,180 this entire thing is fiction. So my question is, we're, we're 1138 01:05:06,180 --> 01:05:09,750 arguing Edgar Mitchell being honorable, he has to, you know, 1139 01:05:09,840 --> 01:05:12,210 essentially be telling the truth, which again, I'm not 1140 01:05:12,450 --> 01:05:16,890 gonna sit and argue that that fact. Why are we calling Admiral 1141 01:05:16,890 --> 01:05:21,120 Thomas Wilson a? I'm not putting words in your mouth, but 1142 01:05:21,120 --> 01:05:22,950 essentially, he's lying. We're calling him a liar. 1143 01:05:24,060 --> 01:05:26,790 Jay: Because he has to, because he simply asked it and because 1144 01:05:26,790 --> 01:05:29,040 he said he would. I mean, obviously, I'm basing this off 1145 01:05:29,040 --> 01:05:32,400 what's said in the notes, but he says he would do exactly this 1146 01:05:32,400 --> 01:05:36,450 and the the two people that said that they would deny this, have 1147 01:05:36,450 --> 01:05:39,780 denied it. And as will Miller and as Admiral Wilson, will 1148 01:05:39,780 --> 01:05:42,870 Miller deny the letter. And Admiral Wilson has denied 1149 01:05:42,960 --> 01:05:46,110 everything, even when it runs contradictory to statements. For 1150 01:05:46,110 --> 01:05:48,990 example, we've got Oh, Shannon, so you know, when the leaks 1151 01:05:48,990 --> 01:05:52,350 first went public, Shannon was asked if he knew Admiral Wilson, 1152 01:05:52,560 --> 01:05:55,170 and he said he does know Admiral Wilson, which runs contrary to 1153 01:05:55,170 --> 01:05:58,080 Admiral Wilson's own responses about not remembering Oceana, 1154 01:05:58,080 --> 01:06:00,990 and eventually admitting they may have crossed paths, but 1155 01:06:00,990 --> 01:06:03,540 these cross paths of many people in his career and he can't 1156 01:06:03,540 --> 01:06:06,330 remember them all. You know, nevertheless, so Shannon has 1157 01:06:06,330 --> 01:06:08,880 refrained from commenting further, because he does not 1158 01:06:08,880 --> 01:06:11,640 wish to embarrass or upset the Admiral. But he's never taken 1159 01:06:11,640 --> 01:06:14,400 back his initial comments about knowing Thomas Wilson when the 1160 01:06:14,730 --> 01:06:16,980 when the notes first went public. So I think, you know, 1161 01:06:16,980 --> 01:06:18,360 that absolutely matters. 1162 01:06:18,630 --> 01:06:21,120 John Greenewald: And in fairness, though, he hasn't 1163 01:06:21,120 --> 01:06:26,220 denied everything. He he concurs with the 1997 meeting. And his 1164 01:06:26,220 --> 01:06:29,220 explanation was that Edgar Mitchell being that esteemed 1165 01:06:29,220 --> 01:06:33,540 American, what was he doing? And so so he's never shied away from 1166 01:06:33,540 --> 01:06:37,740 that in fairness to him. No, it was, but he shot it. Sorry, I'm 1167 01:06:37,740 --> 01:06:39,900 sorry. I'm not meaning to No, no, no, it's all good. 1168 01:06:41,100 --> 01:06:43,890 Jay: I think that he Yeah, he hasn't denied that meeting. But 1169 01:06:43,890 --> 01:06:47,130 he's tried to distance any sorts of ties to Oh, Shannon, because 1170 01:06:47,220 --> 01:06:50,970 Shannon seems to have been the intermediary between Eric Davis 1171 01:06:50,970 --> 01:06:53,280 and Admiral Wilson kind of meeting together because he 1172 01:06:53,280 --> 01:06:56,490 vouched for his character. But you know, there's actually quite 1173 01:06:56,490 --> 01:06:59,820 a quite an interesting thing to mention, because there's no 1174 01:06:59,820 --> 01:07:02,850 easily identifiable connection between oak Shannon and Eric 1175 01:07:02,850 --> 01:07:05,580 Davis. Remember, in the notes, it was about Shannon that 1176 01:07:05,580 --> 01:07:08,280 essentially bridge the communication gap between the 1177 01:07:08,280 --> 01:07:10,560 admiral and Eric, he was he was the one that got the ball roll 1178 01:07:10,590 --> 01:07:15,120 rolling. So why was Eric communicating evoke Shannon? 1179 01:07:15,150 --> 01:07:18,870 Well, in the in the Wilson notes, there was a clear mention 1180 01:07:18,870 --> 01:07:21,840 of the a PT, which is the advanced theoretical physics 1181 01:07:21,840 --> 01:07:25,110 group, and the initials J. A, are mentioned in the notes as 1182 01:07:25,110 --> 01:07:28,290 well, doesn't take much of a stretch of the imagination to 1183 01:07:28,290 --> 01:07:30,990 say that j stands for john alexander, who was one of the 1184 01:07:30,990 --> 01:07:33,540 founding fathers of the advanced theoretical physics group. And 1185 01:07:33,540 --> 01:07:36,930 interestingly enough, in john Alexander's book, UFOs, 1186 01:07:36,930 --> 01:07:40,230 mysteries, conspiracies and realities. He provides a list of 1187 01:07:40,230 --> 01:07:43,290 multiple people who participated and two of the names on that 1188 01:07:43,290 --> 01:07:46,920 list that Eric W Davis and oak Shannon, and so these guys were 1189 01:07:46,920 --> 01:07:50,430 all moving in the same circles all interested in the UFO issue. 1190 01:07:50,670 --> 01:07:54,420 So it's not surprising that oak Shannon mentioned, was mentioned 1191 01:07:54,420 --> 01:07:57,270 as an intermediary because he was connected with very Davis 1192 01:07:57,270 --> 01:07:59,580 via the advanced theoretical physics group. So he would have 1193 01:07:59,580 --> 01:08:02,850 had a good reason to tell Admiral Wilson, that Eric was a 1194 01:08:02,850 --> 01:08:05,400 team player and that he would keep his mouth shut and obey 1195 01:08:05,400 --> 01:08:08,700 protocol. And, and this is what he stated in the notes that Oh, 1196 01:08:08,700 --> 01:08:12,210 Shannon vouched for Eric Davis to Admiral Wilson. So it's 1197 01:08:12,210 --> 01:08:14,820 interesting that Admiral Wilson has made relatively contrary 1198 01:08:14,820 --> 01:08:18,180 statements to even knowing oak shattered and when oak Shannon 1199 01:08:18,180 --> 01:08:21,030 seems to be without directly saying it, which seems to be a 1200 01:08:21,030 --> 01:08:23,940 trend in this entire thing is people not directly saying 1201 01:08:23,940 --> 01:08:27,960 anything. But oh, Shannon seems to basically be saying no, he 1202 01:08:27,960 --> 01:08:32,160 does know Admiral Wilson. So they're, you know, there's that 1203 01:08:32,160 --> 01:08:34,860 that's I think that's an interesting connection, because 1204 01:08:35,490 --> 01:08:39,480 Admiral Wilson, Eric Davis, Oak Shannon, where did that 1205 01:08:39,480 --> 01:08:42,180 connection come from? It came from the advanced theoretical 1206 01:08:42,180 --> 01:08:44,910 physics group, it came from an association with this kind of 1207 01:08:44,910 --> 01:08:46,260 core group of people. 1208 01:08:48,360 --> 01:08:51,120 John Greenewald: One of the other denials, which you brought 1209 01:08:51,120 --> 01:08:58,560 up was wil Miller, who was there in the 1997. The 1997 meeting 1210 01:08:58,590 --> 01:09:01,920 and the two page letter that was within these notes that was 1211 01:09:01,950 --> 01:09:06,120 paper clipped in according to the notes. I only laughed at 1212 01:09:06,120 --> 01:09:09,450 that note that was, you know, paper clipped in. But anyway, so 1213 01:09:09,480 --> 01:09:14,520 well, Miller's letter is in there, essentially saying for 1214 01:09:14,820 --> 01:09:19,020 close to $200 an hour he could help how put off and Eric Davis, 1215 01:09:19,590 --> 01:09:23,340 essentially unlock the secrets of the universe for $200 an 1216 01:09:23,340 --> 01:09:28,920 hour. Now, when he's asked from what I understand, well, Miller 1217 01:09:28,920 --> 01:09:32,130 says he remembers part of the letter, but felt that other 1218 01:09:32,130 --> 01:09:39,210 parts were fabricated. Again, distinguished military officer, 1219 01:09:39,960 --> 01:09:43,650 you know, you might have the same answer, but we're saying 1220 01:09:43,650 --> 01:09:46,470 that he's lying. Is that because he has to? 1221 01:09:47,009 --> 01:09:49,259 Jay: Well, I mean, I think I think again, it is worth 1222 01:09:49,259 --> 01:09:52,109 highlighting that he was explicit that if this was to 1223 01:09:52,109 --> 01:09:54,659 come out, he doesn't want any association with his name. He 1224 01:09:54,659 --> 01:09:57,659 doesn't want any association with this. He'll deny it. You 1225 01:09:57,659 --> 01:09:58,169 know, because the 1226 01:09:58,170 --> 01:09:59,700 John Greenewald: notes because then you're getting that from 1227 01:09:59,700 --> 01:10:00,930 the note Just a couple of hours. Yeah, 1228 01:10:01,020 --> 01:10:03,480 Jay: I'm getting that for notes. But then we also again, I'm 1229 01:10:03,480 --> 01:10:06,360 taking into account other things like the fact that he got a 1230 01:10:06,360 --> 01:10:09,360 phone call from the admiral and Edgar Mitchell and the other 1231 01:10:09,360 --> 01:10:11,910 things I've mentioned, but you know, in terms of the letter, 1232 01:10:12,120 --> 01:10:14,370 because he says it was like a cut and paste job or something 1233 01:10:14,370 --> 01:10:17,580 like that, and I'm pretty sure Dr. Steven Greer did say that it 1234 01:10:17,580 --> 01:10:21,570 was very much like, you know, wills, writing style. But an 1235 01:10:21,570 --> 01:10:24,210 interesting little tidbit in regards to the will Miller 1236 01:10:24,210 --> 01:10:27,510 letter is the mention of Bob Beckwith and his advanced 1237 01:10:27,510 --> 01:10:30,510 physics theories, because Bob Beckwith is a real person, he 1238 01:10:30,510 --> 01:10:32,910 does have various theories that relate back to what was said 1239 01:10:32,910 --> 01:10:36,240 about him, and will mill his letter. He has a small digital 1240 01:10:36,240 --> 01:10:39,000 footprint, my colleague who briefed Leslie Kane and Ralph 1241 01:10:39,000 --> 01:10:42,150 Blumenthal was able to find trace information about this 1242 01:10:42,150 --> 01:10:46,470 individual. And, you know, again, the same individual found 1243 01:10:46,470 --> 01:10:50,280 that the company won mark, Inc. and Joe zakuro, which are two 1244 01:10:50,280 --> 01:10:53,640 mentions in the at the end of this letter. Were at one time 1245 01:10:53,640 --> 01:10:56,850 listed on LinkedIn, I don't know I haven't To be fair, I haven't 1246 01:10:56,850 --> 01:10:59,070 double checked if they're still on LinkedIn. So if it's not on 1247 01:10:59,070 --> 01:11:01,470 there, now, might as well disregard that as a nothing 1248 01:11:01,470 --> 01:11:05,040 comment. But if it's still there, it's still there. And 1249 01:11:05,070 --> 01:11:07,650 that was apparently and this you know, this individual is 1250 01:11:08,070 --> 01:11:10,950 trustworthy in their research, because they were going back and 1251 01:11:10,950 --> 01:11:13,950 forth with Leslie and Ralph, filling them in on different 1252 01:11:13,950 --> 01:11:17,610 areas of this for a while when, when we took down this breakdown 1253 01:11:17,610 --> 01:11:21,360 video that I mentioned at the beginning of the of the talk. So 1254 01:11:21,390 --> 01:11:23,670 there are there are, there are areas of this letter that 1255 01:11:23,670 --> 01:11:26,790 actually, you know, make sense. And it's not like it's just been 1256 01:11:26,940 --> 01:11:29,820 jumbled together from you know, random things and copied and 1257 01:11:29,820 --> 01:11:34,710 pasted. So, but when it comes to Mila denying it, yeah, I will 1258 01:11:34,710 --> 01:11:37,440 admit, I do fall back on the document, because I still think 1259 01:11:37,440 --> 01:11:41,910 the documents real and he says he had denied it. So the two 1260 01:11:41,910 --> 01:11:44,430 people that said they would deny it, have denied it. They 1261 01:11:44,430 --> 01:11:45,180 followed suit, 1262 01:11:45,510 --> 01:11:47,820 John Greenewald: don't you think it's I'm just this is kind of a 1263 01:11:47,820 --> 01:11:49,710 humorous question. But really quick, don't you think it's 1264 01:11:49,710 --> 01:11:54,030 weird that the guy who's saying, hey, hire me for $180 an hour, 1265 01:11:54,030 --> 01:11:57,810 and I'll find you the Extra Terrestrial connection ends his 1266 01:11:57,810 --> 01:12:00,270 letter by saying, hey, do you know how to contact this guy 1267 01:12:00,270 --> 01:12:03,240 from this corporation? Like, like, he's gonna unlock the 1268 01:12:03,240 --> 01:12:03,630 secrets. 1269 01:12:04,380 --> 01:12:09,360 Jay: But I don't think he was really obscure company that was 1270 01:12:09,360 --> 01:12:12,840 dealing in like a type of pepper spray or something like that. 1271 01:12:12,840 --> 01:12:15,390 So, you know, yeah, you're right. It's, it's, it's weird, 1272 01:12:15,390 --> 01:12:18,870 but maybe, maybe he knew that, you know, these guys would 1273 01:12:18,870 --> 01:12:21,540 probably move in the same circles, because we know we're 1274 01:12:21,540 --> 01:12:24,600 dealing. I mean, we're probably dealing with a time when it 1275 01:12:24,600 --> 01:12:27,780 wasn't as informative in terms of the Internet, and then being 1276 01:12:27,780 --> 01:12:31,890 able to utilize that to add authority for these people. So I 1277 01:12:31,890 --> 01:12:33,780 don't know. I mean, you're right. It's it. 1278 01:12:34,080 --> 01:12:35,760 John Greenewald: Just, it struck me It's funny. 1279 01:12:35,820 --> 01:12:39,600 Jay: It's a fair point, though. It's a fair point because he's 1280 01:12:39,600 --> 01:12:42,330 saying he's got all this access, but it's a different thing. It's 1281 01:12:42,330 --> 01:12:44,910 a different you know, he's he's saying that through his networks 1282 01:12:44,910 --> 01:12:47,670 through the people he's already spoken to he's he's able to 1283 01:12:47,670 --> 01:12:49,740 provide them with information about I think he said, like a 1284 01:12:49,740 --> 01:12:53,340 flag rank officer who, you know, was connected to this issue. I 1285 01:12:53,340 --> 01:12:56,820 can't remember for verbatim what he was saying. But um, but yeah, 1286 01:12:56,820 --> 01:12:58,620 like posing that question. I always thought it was 1287 01:12:58,620 --> 01:13:01,020 interesting that that end question and I was wanting to 1288 01:13:01,020 --> 01:13:04,170 know why he wanted to find out who they were or or contact 1289 01:13:04,170 --> 01:13:05,130 them. But yeah, yeah. 1290 01:13:05,579 --> 01:13:07,949 John Greenewald: Yeah, it was a weird, weird, again, humorous 1291 01:13:07,949 --> 01:13:11,669 thing I just wanted to ask credibility of Steven Greer, I 1292 01:13:11,669 --> 01:13:15,419 don't expect you to, you know, slander anybody, nor am I. But 1293 01:13:15,419 --> 01:13:17,759 again, these are just some of the key players involved in all 1294 01:13:17,759 --> 01:13:20,969 of this. And why I bring up credibility with Steven Greer 1295 01:13:20,969 --> 01:13:25,109 specifically to this is many, many, many moons ago, because 1296 01:13:25,109 --> 01:13:29,069 I've mentioned I'm old on this program before I was writing for 1297 01:13:29,069 --> 01:13:33,719 UFO magazine with when it was headed by Bill Bill Burns. And 1298 01:13:33,719 --> 01:13:35,999 Bill had given me a call and I was writing on and off of them 1299 01:13:35,999 --> 01:13:38,819 and he says, Hey, can you write an article on the Disclosure 1300 01:13:38,819 --> 01:13:42,449 Project? And as I dug in, realized that there was a rift 1301 01:13:42,449 --> 01:13:47,189 between Edgar Mitchell and Dr. Steven Greer that Steven Greer 1302 01:13:47,189 --> 01:13:51,299 was essentially overstepping and, and I forget the word that 1303 01:13:51,329 --> 01:13:54,599 Dr. Mitchell use, but essentially over extending the 1304 01:13:54,599 --> 01:14:00,599 claims and he was very upset at being named as a witness. How 1305 01:14:00,599 --> 01:14:06,929 credible is Dr. Steven Greer in this story? I mean it you know, 1306 01:14:06,929 --> 01:14:11,459 because you again you have that direct conflict between Edgar 1307 01:14:11,459 --> 01:14:14,819 Mitchell and Dr. Steven Greer at least many many years ago 1308 01:14:15,090 --> 01:14:17,310 Jay: so that's that's why I didn't include that quote, 1309 01:14:17,310 --> 01:14:21,720 because I was always frustrated and I you know, I've met one of 1310 01:14:21,720 --> 01:14:23,850 the one of the first things that actually got me into the UFO 1311 01:14:23,850 --> 01:14:27,210 subject was my best friend recommending on acknowledged and 1312 01:14:27,240 --> 01:14:29,370 you know, I watched that acknowledge and I was like, wow, 1313 01:14:29,370 --> 01:14:31,830 I was fascinated. That was one of the first things that got me 1314 01:14:31,830 --> 01:14:34,500 interested. So you know, hats off to him for that documentary, 1315 01:14:34,500 --> 01:14:40,680 but I never included I've never included Edgar Mitchell 1316 01:14:40,680 --> 01:14:44,970 statement there because the full interview, he says something 1317 01:14:44,970 --> 01:14:48,630 along the lines of well if we are to believe the individuals 1318 01:14:48,630 --> 01:14:51,870 within government who have, you know, hinted at this Yes, there 1319 01:14:51,870 --> 01:14:55,350 are extraterrestrials yesterday at craft and that was cut to 1320 01:14:55,350 --> 01:14:58,710 just say, yes, there are extraterrestrials. Yes. And as 1321 01:14:58,710 --> 01:15:02,130 if he's confirming it as is a absolute fact. And I was always 1322 01:15:02,280 --> 01:15:05,400 frustrated because I knew because I don't even know why he 1323 01:15:05,400 --> 01:15:08,610 did it because you have access to the full interview, you can 1324 01:15:08,610 --> 01:15:12,870 quite clearly see that it was got emphasis towards it being 1325 01:15:13,080 --> 01:15:15,900 Edgar Mitchell's acknowledgement rather than him saying, Well, if 1326 01:15:15,900 --> 01:15:20,040 we believe these people. So yeah, I know we all know about 1327 01:15:20,040 --> 01:15:23,520 Dr. Steven Greer, we don't like you know, really need to go over 1328 01:15:23,520 --> 01:15:26,160 loads and loads of things about his credibility, let's, let's be 1329 01:15:26,160 --> 01:15:29,640 honest, he has absolutely paved the way for years he was top 1330 01:15:29,640 --> 01:15:33,780 dog. And I have to admit, he has fallen somewhat from grace for 1331 01:15:33,780 --> 01:15:37,050 you know, a lot of people in recent years. And some of those 1332 01:15:37,050 --> 01:15:40,170 reasons are understandable. So some people seem to think that 1333 01:15:40,170 --> 01:15:42,270 because I'm into the consciousness side, and I've had 1334 01:15:42,270 --> 01:15:45,780 experiences that I just kind of blindly follow Greer or 1335 01:15:45,780 --> 01:15:48,870 something and I don't I try and objectively look at everyone and 1336 01:15:48,870 --> 01:15:51,840 decide what I want. And I pick and choose. And Steven Greer 1337 01:15:51,840 --> 01:15:57,390 has, as demonstrated a absolute passion, a very keen 1338 01:15:57,390 --> 01:16:01,320 intelligence, a an ability to network a historical involvement 1339 01:16:01,320 --> 01:16:04,590 in this issue and a big old ego. And that big old ego is what 1340 01:16:04,590 --> 01:16:07,980 gets them in trouble. And and so you know, you're right, you're 1341 01:16:07,980 --> 01:16:11,550 right to bring up his his credibility issues. But I think 1342 01:16:11,580 --> 01:16:14,400 again, it doesn't just fall on Greer, this, this whole 1343 01:16:14,400 --> 01:16:17,400 situation doesn't fall on the credibility of Greer doesn't 1344 01:16:17,400 --> 01:16:19,620 even just fall on the credibility of Eric Davis. 1345 01:16:19,710 --> 01:16:22,470 There's so many different moving parts in this that I've 1346 01:16:22,470 --> 01:16:25,860 mentioned all already in terms of statements and interesting 1347 01:16:25,860 --> 01:16:28,680 scenarios and situations that I think you don't need to 1348 01:16:28,680 --> 01:16:31,410 necessarily rely on one person, especially because they 1349 01:16:31,410 --> 01:16:35,850 delivered information that we know to be true. So we've got 1350 01:16:35,850 --> 01:16:38,280 the National Reconnaissance Office document, that's a real 1351 01:16:38,280 --> 01:16:42,780 document, Admiral Wilson, you know, was shown that document in 1352 01:16:42,780 --> 01:16:46,650 a briefing at the Pentagon. That's what, you know, Steven 1353 01:16:46,650 --> 01:16:49,950 Greer has claimed, but that's also what's been acknowledged by 1354 01:16:49,950 --> 01:16:52,590 Admiral Wilson. And it was also been acknowledged by Edgar 1355 01:16:52,590 --> 01:16:54,840 Mitchell that this briefing took place. So, you know, he's 1356 01:16:54,840 --> 01:16:57,150 telling the truth about going into this briefing and 1357 01:16:57,150 --> 01:16:59,280 presenting this information. This is the information I 1358 01:16:59,280 --> 01:17:03,510 presented, this NRO document was a particular interest. So in 1359 01:17:03,510 --> 01:17:07,380 this particular scenario, I would say that, yeah, I do trust 1360 01:17:07,380 --> 01:17:10,230 Steven Greer to be being sincere in this because I'm not just 1361 01:17:10,230 --> 01:17:14,580 relying on Steven Greer, to know what the situation might have 1362 01:17:14,580 --> 01:17:18,120 been about I again, and I know, I'm sounding like a broken 1363 01:17:18,120 --> 01:17:21,540 record, but I really do fall a lot back onto Edgar Mitchell. 1364 01:17:21,570 --> 01:17:24,960 And I just think that this individual would not have got 1365 01:17:24,960 --> 01:17:28,410 himself into this situation where he was confidently talking 1366 01:17:28,410 --> 01:17:32,130 about a scenario that seems very reminiscent of the admiral 1367 01:17:32,130 --> 01:17:37,080 Wilson scenario, if he did not believe it to be true. So yeah, 1368 01:17:37,080 --> 01:17:40,170 you're right to bring up Steven Greer, but I don't think that 1369 01:17:40,530 --> 01:17:44,790 his credibility issues that people know about, really 1370 01:17:44,790 --> 01:17:48,000 reflect too much on this particular scenario. Other than 1371 01:17:48,060 --> 01:17:52,020 the the mention of of that interview, where he spliced it 1372 01:17:52,140 --> 01:17:54,930 cleverly to make it seem like Edgar Mitchell was confirming 1373 01:17:54,930 --> 01:17:58,860 something when he wasn't, you know, that was, that was sneaky. 1374 01:17:58,890 --> 01:18:02,040 But yeah, in terms of his involvement in this particular 1375 01:18:02,040 --> 01:18:05,520 scenario, I mean, you've you've seen the citizens disclosure 1376 01:18:05,520 --> 01:18:07,860 conference where he's there talking about the document, and 1377 01:18:07,860 --> 01:18:10,560 he's got it and he's holding it. I believe what he's saying. And 1378 01:18:10,560 --> 01:18:13,110 when he says that you spoke with general Patrick Hughes, I think, 1379 01:18:13,110 --> 01:18:16,350 and he brought the ET doll off the shelf and said, this is all 1380 01:18:16,350 --> 01:18:19,170 I've been given for my, you know, my question is up the 1381 01:18:19,170 --> 01:18:22,950 chain of command. I do believe that, that that took place, you 1382 01:18:22,950 --> 01:18:25,860 know, and I don't think that particular area gives me too 1383 01:18:25,860 --> 01:18:28,560 much doubt. But, um, I understand why you asked that 1384 01:18:28,560 --> 01:18:29,310 question, for sure. 1385 01:18:29,850 --> 01:18:31,680 John Greenewald: Are you okay with time? I know, we had a 1386 01:18:31,680 --> 01:18:33,240 little bit of technical hiccups there. 1387 01:18:33,330 --> 01:18:37,290 Jay: You're right. It's Yeah, it's it's 1130. But I'm happy to 1388 01:18:37,290 --> 01:18:41,850 go for however long you want to go me? I'm okay. You coffees and 1389 01:18:41,880 --> 01:18:43,260 a bit of nicotine. So I'm good. 1390 01:18:43,500 --> 01:18:46,170 John Greenewald: Good. Good. Okay. Well, I won't keep you, 1391 01:18:46,200 --> 01:18:49,320 you know, keep you all night, but but I want to definitely get 1392 01:18:49,320 --> 01:18:53,790 to a couple other things. Yeah. And one thing that I don't feel 1393 01:18:53,790 --> 01:18:58,770 that we've dealt with and I wanted to ask you about is truly 1394 01:18:58,770 --> 01:19:02,490 the origin of these notes. The meeting between Thomas Wilson 1395 01:19:03,120 --> 01:19:08,580 going to Las Vegas meeting with Dr. Eric Davis. Do you have in a 1396 01:19:08,580 --> 01:19:14,580 nutshell why Davis? It's just clearing my throat there. Sorry. 1397 01:19:14,940 --> 01:19:15,450 No problem. 1398 01:19:16,470 --> 01:19:20,730 Jay: Well, again, I think I'd probably go back on what I what 1399 01:19:20,730 --> 01:19:23,310 I said about Oh, Shannon and the fact that they were connected 1400 01:19:23,310 --> 01:19:26,010 through the advanced theoretical physics group. So these guys 1401 01:19:26,010 --> 01:19:30,900 moved in the same circles. Eric Davis is a brilliant theoretical 1402 01:19:30,900 --> 01:19:34,380 physicists with an extremely strong interest in UFOs and a 1403 01:19:34,380 --> 01:19:39,120 background in research and yet at a high level. And so I think 1404 01:19:39,120 --> 01:19:42,510 that it would make sense if he was moving in the same circles 1405 01:19:42,540 --> 01:19:45,840 as oak Shannon. For him to be you know, it could have very 1406 01:19:45,840 --> 01:19:48,900 easily in my opinion been Harold put off instead that could have 1407 01:19:48,900 --> 01:19:51,630 gone and done this, but it just happened to be Eric Davis out of 1408 01:19:51,630 --> 01:19:55,260 the two. Perhaps Eric Davis spoke to hell about it because 1409 01:19:55,260 --> 01:20:00,360 he was you know, how was his boss at the time and so Yeah, I 1410 01:20:00,360 --> 01:20:03,900 mean, I think that I think that it was probably just a case of 1411 01:20:04,080 --> 01:20:07,320 he was the most logical person maybe he asked, oh, Shannon, I 1412 01:20:07,320 --> 01:20:10,290 mean, the thing is, we have to then delve into speculation of 1413 01:20:10,290 --> 01:20:13,530 like, how did the conversation go, but I think that the the 1414 01:20:13,530 --> 01:20:16,650 connection that is prevalent or present sorry, the connection 1415 01:20:16,650 --> 01:20:20,460 that's present between oak Shannon, Eric Davis, and you 1416 01:20:20,460 --> 01:20:22,980 know, john alexander helped us off advanced theoretical physics 1417 01:20:22,980 --> 01:20:27,420 group. This seems like a pretty important reason for it to be 1418 01:20:27,420 --> 01:20:31,050 Eric Davis. And if you know, if you remember in the, in the in 1419 01:20:31,050 --> 01:20:34,980 the notes, Admiral Wilson, supposedly he said, You know, I 1420 01:20:34,980 --> 01:20:37,290 was very impressed with your, your Airforce slides, your 1421 01:20:37,290 --> 01:20:39,480 Lockheed slides, like all these kinds of things in your 1422 01:20:39,480 --> 01:20:42,750 portfolio. I mean, he's got a fantastic portfolio. That's why 1423 01:20:42,750 --> 01:20:45,450 he's an Aerospace Corporation now doing stuff that he can't 1424 01:20:45,450 --> 01:20:48,420 talk about. So I think that he's a pretty strong candidate. I 1425 01:20:48,420 --> 01:20:51,270 mean, I'm sure there's other unknown scientists and 1426 01:20:51,270 --> 01:20:54,030 physicists in the do the infrastructure that have a 1427 01:20:54,030 --> 01:20:57,840 capability, but Eric Davis, at least in the public sphere seems 1428 01:20:57,840 --> 01:21:01,410 to be one of the most prevalent so yeah, it doesn't surprise me 1429 01:21:01,410 --> 01:21:04,650 that he would want to try and get hold of Admiral Wilson. And 1430 01:21:04,650 --> 01:21:07,680 it doesn't surprise me that Oh, Shannon could have acted as the 1431 01:21:07,710 --> 01:21:10,200 kind of intermediary between that happening. 1432 01:21:10,800 --> 01:21:14,850 John Greenewald: So. Okay, so so connected to that group, no 1433 01:21:14,850 --> 01:21:20,340 surprise. So let's talk about the security behind what Admiral 1434 01:21:20,340 --> 01:21:24,060 Wilson was conveying if this all took place. And I want to make 1435 01:21:24,060 --> 01:21:26,430 sure we're on the same page. And if you disagree with me, please, 1436 01:21:26,430 --> 01:21:31,320 this is why I'm asking. Would you agree that the existence the 1437 01:21:31,350 --> 01:21:34,650 the the knowledge of the existence of a highly classified 1438 01:21:34,650 --> 01:21:38,280 program, such as what is described in the notes, that 1439 01:21:38,280 --> 01:21:42,930 that knowledge in and of itself would be classified? Would you 1440 01:21:42,930 --> 01:21:43,680 agree with that? 1441 01:21:43,800 --> 01:21:46,380 Jay: Yeah. And I know, what you're going to say is like, why 1442 01:21:46,380 --> 01:21:49,350 in the hell would Admiral Wilson even acknowledge this to Eric 1443 01:21:49,350 --> 01:21:50,580 Davis? If it was that? Well, 1444 01:21:50,610 --> 01:21:53,100 John Greenewald: that Okay, so then that's again, leading into 1445 01:21:53,100 --> 01:21:55,590 this honorable thing. So he flies out to Las Vegas, and now 1446 01:21:55,590 --> 01:22:00,930 he's divulging classified information and a car in Las 1447 01:22:00,930 --> 01:22:05,340 Vegas to Dr. Eric Davis of all people. My question is, he 1448 01:22:05,340 --> 01:22:07,530 clearly doesn't have a need to know because according to the 1449 01:22:07,530 --> 01:22:11,130 story, the admiral didn't have a need to know. So he's out there 1450 01:22:11,130 --> 01:22:16,170 putting highly classified information at his position out 1451 01:22:16,170 --> 01:22:21,300 there into the ether, and tells Dr. Eric Davis, why would he do 1452 01:22:21,300 --> 01:22:21,660 that? 1453 01:22:21,840 --> 01:22:26,400 Jay: I think he was very disturbed. And again, this is a 1454 01:22:26,400 --> 01:22:29,520 we have to just preface this by saying, I'm speculating. I 1455 01:22:29,520 --> 01:22:33,660 don't, I understand. But I think I'm trying to kind of see a 1456 01:22:33,660 --> 01:22:38,700 pattern out of the chaos and see where I feel it fits. And I 1457 01:22:38,700 --> 01:22:43,290 think that he would have told him because taking away the size 1458 01:22:43,290 --> 01:22:45,480 of oak Shannon, getting in contact and saying, hey, you 1459 01:22:45,480 --> 01:22:47,430 need to talk to this guy called Eric, why would Admiral Wilson 1460 01:22:47,430 --> 01:22:51,000 give this information? Eric? I think he was really disturbed by 1461 01:22:51,000 --> 01:22:55,560 what he what he encountered, and he was battling with that. And I 1462 01:22:55,560 --> 01:23:00,480 think that I think that he took a real chance with this and it 1463 01:23:00,480 --> 01:23:04,620 backfired. I mean, that's why, in my opinion, he is saying 1464 01:23:04,650 --> 01:23:08,490 absolutely not this situation didn't occur. No, I refuse. Why 1465 01:23:08,490 --> 01:23:09,360 John Greenewald: did it backfire? 1466 01:23:10,440 --> 01:23:13,980 Jay: No. Why did it backfire? Because it became public, it 1467 01:23:13,980 --> 01:23:17,670 became public, you know, I think that he honestly, was assured by 1468 01:23:17,670 --> 01:23:21,030 old Shannon, that this guy was a complete straight shooter, that 1469 01:23:21,030 --> 01:23:23,610 you would have no issues with him, and that he's very 1470 01:23:23,610 --> 01:23:26,160 interested in talking about the UFO issue. I don't know how 1471 01:23:26,160 --> 01:23:29,610 they, you know, if he was to get in contact with this guy, oh, 1472 01:23:29,610 --> 01:23:34,350 Shannon must have really, you know, built up Eric Davis. And I 1473 01:23:34,350 --> 01:23:38,010 think that potentially, we could just draw this down to a weak, 1474 01:23:38,250 --> 01:23:40,740 you know, subjective, really, because I think it was a 1475 01:23:40,740 --> 01:23:43,260 brilliant thing that he did if he did it, but a moment of 1476 01:23:43,260 --> 01:23:47,490 weakness in his patriotism allegiance. And, and, and he 1477 01:23:47,490 --> 01:23:50,430 thought, you know, what, if I do this in a very, very clandestine 1478 01:23:50,430 --> 01:23:53,280 manner, we do this very carefully. I talk about it in a 1479 01:23:53,280 --> 01:23:56,430 in an area where I'm comfortable. I will tell you 1480 01:23:56,430 --> 01:24:00,360 certain details, and I don't want this to go anywhere near 1481 01:24:00,360 --> 01:24:03,120 the public sector. You know, he wasn't talking to a greasy 1482 01:24:03,120 --> 01:24:06,300 journalist, he was talking to, you know, a very, very 1483 01:24:06,300 --> 01:24:08,610 professional theoretical physicist who had an interest in 1484 01:24:08,610 --> 01:24:10,890 this issue. I can see you smiling when I said, a very 1485 01:24:10,890 --> 01:24:11,550 professional 1486 01:24:13,980 --> 01:24:14,820 John Greenewald: hoping I was biting my tongue 1487 01:24:15,750 --> 01:24:19,170 Jay: that much. I see it but no, you know, I'm just saying I 1488 01:24:19,170 --> 01:24:23,190 think that, in my opinion, it could be that it's a it's a 1489 01:24:23,190 --> 01:24:27,420 situation that Admiral Wilson, really, really regrets he ever 1490 01:24:27,420 --> 01:24:30,180 did. He really wishes he had never, ever done this. And so he 1491 01:24:30,180 --> 01:24:34,680 denies it. And, you know, but potentially, maybe there were 1492 01:24:34,680 --> 01:24:38,070 some very strong words said to him, maybe he wasn't taken to a 1493 01:24:38,070 --> 01:24:40,590 black site and had his nails ripped out by the, you know, 1494 01:24:40,950 --> 01:24:44,370 Guantanamo Bay people. But perhaps he was taken to the side 1495 01:24:44,370 --> 01:24:46,740 and said, You have crossed the line with this. I don't know. 1496 01:24:46,740 --> 01:24:48,150 Again, it falls into specialists. 1497 01:24:48,390 --> 01:24:50,640 John Greenewald: And I and I get it this but I mean, this You 1498 01:24:50,640 --> 01:24:55,110 follow? You have to speculate points. Yeah, but but I think 1499 01:24:55,110 --> 01:24:58,260 that where I'm missing it and where I kind of wanted your 1500 01:24:58,260 --> 01:25:02,070 feedback is if he Didn't want this public, he was so angry. 1501 01:25:02,070 --> 01:25:05,760 He's a J. Two, he's being denied access. There's alien technology 1502 01:25:05,760 --> 01:25:09,660 out there, we have it, and he can't access it. And it's all 1503 01:25:09,660 --> 01:25:14,070 hidden, you know, in the private sector? What then is the motive 1504 01:25:14,070 --> 01:25:17,520 if he doesn't want it to go public? Why tell Eric Davis, 1505 01:25:17,520 --> 01:25:20,040 What is he trying to achieve? What's David's gonna do? 1506 01:25:20,340 --> 01:25:24,600 Jay: I think that maybe he was told by someone like, oh, 1507 01:25:24,600 --> 01:25:27,690 Shannon, look, there's a guy from this group, very well 1508 01:25:27,690 --> 01:25:31,830 funded, you know, billionaire funding this group, and you're 1509 01:25:31,830 --> 01:25:34,680 talking about lead magnets. Yeah. So you know, he's got this 1510 01:25:34,680 --> 01:25:39,960 background. And these are very, you know, very intelligent and 1511 01:25:39,960 --> 01:25:43,620 highly sought after people within the kind of scientific 1512 01:25:43,620 --> 01:25:46,110 infrastructure of God and things like that, you know, these are 1513 01:25:46,110 --> 01:25:49,830 very interesting, folks. And they are trying to get to the 1514 01:25:49,830 --> 01:25:52,980 bottom of this. And I think that maybe Admiral Wilson saw this as 1515 01:25:52,980 --> 01:25:56,430 an opportunity to pass along, the little bit of attempt that 1516 01:25:56,430 --> 01:25:59,550 he had tried in the hopes that maybe these fellows could dig 1517 01:25:59,550 --> 01:26:02,100 down even deeper, and uncover it. And he, you know, he's not 1518 01:26:02,100 --> 01:26:04,410 going to go public with this information, because that would 1519 01:26:04,410 --> 01:26:07,500 just be far too devastating for his own career and his own 1520 01:26:07,500 --> 01:26:10,650 reputation. But if he could maybe pass the bottle on the 1521 01:26:10,650 --> 01:26:13,440 message in the bottle to the next rose and say, hey, look, 1522 01:26:13,440 --> 01:26:16,740 you see what you can do with this. Don't ever mention my name 1523 01:26:16,740 --> 01:26:19,590 or connection to me, I'll deny anything that I've ever said to 1524 01:26:19,590 --> 01:26:22,590 you, this conversation never happened, but use what I'm 1525 01:26:22,590 --> 01:26:26,490 giving you now and see what you can do. Because I tried, and 1526 01:26:26,490 --> 01:26:29,070 they get, you know, they wouldn't even let me, you know, 1527 01:26:29,070 --> 01:26:32,370 into the program or, you know, so i think i think that perhaps 1528 01:26:32,370 --> 01:26:35,370 we're dealing with a situation where this guy was like, we're 1529 01:26:35,370 --> 01:26:38,280 we're Admiral Admiral Wilson was like, I'm, I'm going to try and 1530 01:26:38,310 --> 01:26:42,420 see if I can push this forward for other people. And not 1531 01:26:42,420 --> 01:26:44,580 necessarily take it publicly because that would just be too 1532 01:26:44,580 --> 01:26:47,640 much of an explosion. And he was too patriotic to bring down a 1533 01:26:47,640 --> 01:26:49,770 system to like, you know, literally say there are a cut, 1534 01:26:49,770 --> 01:26:52,350 there's a cover up and go on CNN. He didn't want to do that. 1535 01:26:52,350 --> 01:26:55,800 So I think the best option was a fortuitous, perhaps Oh, Shannon 1536 01:26:55,800 --> 01:26:58,500 was the first person to message him I'd imagine it was I don't I 1537 01:26:58,500 --> 01:27:01,050 can't imagine Admiral Wilson was reaching out to see if he could 1538 01:27:01,050 --> 01:27:03,420 speak to someone. I'm sure that Oh, Shannon made the 1539 01:27:03,420 --> 01:27:06,810 introductions. And, you know, maybe he just molded over a 1540 01:27:06,810 --> 01:27:09,270 couple of nights and said, Yeah, all right. I'm gonna talk to him 1541 01:27:09,270 --> 01:27:10,440 about this, see what they can do. 1542 01:27:10,710 --> 01:27:13,050 John Greenewald: So obviously, he intended those something to 1543 01:27:13,050 --> 01:27:16,500 be something to happen billionaire funded private, at 1544 01:27:16,500 --> 01:27:20,640 this point, non government contractor which again, I but 1545 01:27:20,640 --> 01:27:23,490 for sake of time, I won't argue that that point. But I mean, 1546 01:27:23,490 --> 01:27:26,910 it's hard to believe that he would divulge to a, a 1547 01:27:26,940 --> 01:27:29,910 organization like this now bass where the government contract 1548 01:27:29,910 --> 01:27:32,520 and security clearance, okay, like I get on board with that. 1549 01:27:32,520 --> 01:27:37,590 But let's just operate that that's true. And that the career 1550 01:27:38,160 --> 01:27:42,360 concern that his career would be would be, you know, hurt by all 1551 01:27:42,360 --> 01:27:45,720 of this. Okay, I get on board with that. His career's done in 1552 01:27:45,720 --> 01:27:50,610 the sense that he has, he has now done a lot, you know, I 1553 01:27:50,610 --> 01:27:54,690 mean, he has lived his career life, if he knows something that 1554 01:27:54,690 --> 01:28:00,090 will change this planet. And deep down years ago, he was 1555 01:28:00,090 --> 01:28:06,420 willing to give Dr. Eric Davis in this car, that that 1556 01:28:06,420 --> 01:28:10,230 information that classified information, I can understand 1557 01:28:10,230 --> 01:28:14,010 why you don't want it out then. But now what's he got to lose? 1558 01:28:14,010 --> 01:28:18,210 He's clearly got no consideration for a security 1559 01:28:18,210 --> 01:28:21,690 oath. He's telling classified information to people that don't 1560 01:28:21,690 --> 01:28:25,890 have a need to know, even though friends are vouching where I 1561 01:28:25,890 --> 01:28:29,370 would again, just kind of respectfully disagree, that 1562 01:28:29,370 --> 01:28:33,360 there's such a leap there that these guys would be told this 1563 01:28:33,360 --> 01:28:37,230 information that, that that I believe somebody of Admiral 1564 01:28:37,230 --> 01:28:42,840 Wilson's position, if it was true to him being denied, he 1565 01:28:42,840 --> 01:28:46,350 would never take it beyond or if he did, you would have like an 1566 01:28:46,350 --> 01:28:49,290 Edward Snowden type situation where he would just go to the 1567 01:28:49,290 --> 01:28:52,560 press and go, you know what, let's change the world and and 1568 01:28:52,560 --> 01:28:55,110 do this. So back to my question, because, again, that's 1569 01:28:55,140 --> 01:28:59,460 speculation on my part. Why? Why doesn't he just come clean at 1570 01:28:59,460 --> 01:29:01,920 this point and just say, you know, what, yeah, it happened. 1571 01:29:01,950 --> 01:29:02,550 Come get me. 1572 01:29:03,840 --> 01:29:06,330 Jay: Again, I mean, it's, you know, it's a good, it's a good 1573 01:29:06,330 --> 01:29:12,570 question. And I do just kind of fall back on my own feelings. 1574 01:29:12,570 --> 01:29:14,970 And, you know, this is, again, we're, we're just wading into 1575 01:29:14,970 --> 01:29:17,820 the gray area of expressing our different feelings on this 1576 01:29:17,820 --> 01:29:22,440 issue, rather than any sort of kind of trail of evidence, but I 1577 01:29:22,440 --> 01:29:26,910 just, I think that he sees this as a big mistake. You know, I 1578 01:29:26,910 --> 01:29:31,560 think that he really regrets ever speaking to them. And for 1579 01:29:31,560 --> 01:29:37,110 whatever reason, I mean, yeah, I would have to just fall back, 1580 01:29:37,350 --> 01:29:42,300 personally on him making a decision that he later regretted 1581 01:29:42,330 --> 01:29:45,030 because it suddenly came out in the public and why would he not 1582 01:29:45,030 --> 01:29:49,440 talk about it now? You're right. Why wouldn't he talk about it 1583 01:29:49,440 --> 01:29:52,740 now? Like, what maybe one day he will he is still alive? You 1584 01:29:52,740 --> 01:29:56,760 know, the day before this is over. Admiral Wilson will say, 1585 01:29:56,760 --> 01:30:00,330 you know, I was I was not telling the truth. This is a 1586 01:30:00,330 --> 01:30:04,410 real situation. I don't know, maybe someone came to his house 1587 01:30:04,410 --> 01:30:06,780 put a gun to his family's head and said, if you ever say 1588 01:30:06,780 --> 01:30:09,030 anything about this situation, again, they're all going to die. 1589 01:30:09,060 --> 01:30:11,970 I mean, obviously, we don't know, I just, I'm just saying 1590 01:30:11,970 --> 01:30:15,900 that there could be a whole number of reasons after the fact 1591 01:30:16,110 --> 01:30:20,790 that he's decided to absolutely avoid this at all costs. And 1592 01:30:20,790 --> 01:30:24,120 then yeah, why would he reach out to this organization and 1593 01:30:24,150 --> 01:30:27,180 essentially be very laissez faire with his national security 1594 01:30:27,180 --> 01:30:32,670 restrictions and just tell these people. I do think that it was 1595 01:30:32,670 --> 01:30:35,910 just perhaps the end of the line for him when he was contacted by 1596 01:30:35,910 --> 01:30:38,520 OIC and made clear that people were trying to find out and that 1597 01:30:38,520 --> 01:30:40,800 they might be able to do something that they've got the 1598 01:30:40,800 --> 01:30:43,230 backing that they've got the resources, the knowledge, the 1599 01:30:43,230 --> 01:30:47,550 clearances, the collections. I think maybe he just had a moment 1600 01:30:47,550 --> 01:30:52,530 where his his allegiance to the national security bureaucracy, 1601 01:30:52,830 --> 01:30:55,650 architecture just kind of collapsed. And he had this 1602 01:30:55,650 --> 01:30:59,070 moment of weakness, why was he not flowing away to an a prison 1603 01:30:59,070 --> 01:31:02,010 forever? Who knows? Maybe he really was threatened in a 1604 01:31:02,010 --> 01:31:05,250 different way. And that's why he won't open his mouth. But again, 1605 01:31:05,880 --> 01:31:08,940 this seems to be the theme of this particular part of the 1606 01:31:08,940 --> 01:31:11,130 conversation. Yeah. It just speculate 1607 01:31:11,160 --> 01:31:13,080 John Greenewald: speculation now, and I picked up on 1608 01:31:13,080 --> 01:31:15,090 something you said, and I want to go back to the evidence, 1609 01:31:15,090 --> 01:31:18,270 because I want to focus on what what you want to bring out. I 1610 01:31:18,270 --> 01:31:20,640 don't want to get you in the weeds on speculating. But I do 1611 01:31:20,640 --> 01:31:24,240 want to ask one follow up on what you just said, about knids, 1612 01:31:24,240 --> 01:31:28,110 where they had the clearances and the access now back then, 1613 01:31:28,110 --> 01:31:33,210 and in 2001 2000, to 2002, excuse me, you know, with knids, 1614 01:31:33,240 --> 01:31:37,050 granted billionaire, you know, put pumping money into this, and 1615 01:31:37,050 --> 01:31:40,710 quite a few very smart scientists and so on. But what 1616 01:31:41,250 --> 01:31:44,730 government slash clearances, are you referring to where they 1617 01:31:44,730 --> 01:31:46,590 would have the access to do something? 1618 01:31:46,950 --> 01:31:50,730 Jay: Well, didn't? Didn't Eric Davis already have a background 1619 01:31:50,730 --> 01:31:53,130 with the Air Force? He had his Air Force portfolio where he'd 1620 01:31:53,130 --> 01:31:56,340 done like ball lightning studies and other other sorts of studies 1621 01:31:56,340 --> 01:31:56,880 was that yeah, 1622 01:31:56,880 --> 01:31:58,560 John Greenewald: I mean, I'm sure there was a clearance level 1623 01:31:58,560 --> 01:32:01,740 at some point for that. But we're not talking because I got 1624 01:32:01,740 --> 01:32:05,700 those under under FOIA. And I'll link those in the show notes 1625 01:32:05,700 --> 01:32:08,280 too. So people can see he did have these contracts with the 1626 01:32:08,280 --> 01:32:12,420 Air Force Research Lab. You know, we're able to do that. But 1627 01:32:12,420 --> 01:32:15,360 not a, you know, top secret classified. Yeah. 1628 01:32:15,360 --> 01:32:18,450 Jay: And so, obviously, you know, these guys weren't in some 1629 01:32:18,450 --> 01:32:21,870 sort of, you know, oversight position in special access 1630 01:32:21,870 --> 01:32:24,990 programs or anything like that. But at the 1631 01:32:24,990 --> 01:32:26,670 John Greenewald: end, that's, and that's not to step on yet. 1632 01:32:26,670 --> 01:32:29,550 That's what I mean by the question is, if Wilson truly 1633 01:32:29,550 --> 01:32:33,900 wanted somebody to do something about it, it goes back to that 1634 01:32:33,900 --> 01:32:36,750 question of, Okay, why the knids guys, because, again, very 1635 01:32:36,750 --> 01:32:42,120 brilliant, very smart, scientific minded individuals. I 1636 01:32:42,120 --> 01:32:44,010 have nothing bad to say I'm trying to find the right way to 1637 01:32:44,040 --> 01:32:47,400 work, though. But but very smart in their own right. But why 1638 01:32:47,400 --> 01:32:53,100 wouldn't you go to a contact at like a Lockheed or something 1639 01:32:53,100 --> 01:32:56,670 that are into those black budget programs that have those high 1640 01:32:56,670 --> 01:33:01,650 level clearances that are getting into? Well, that arena? 1641 01:33:01,710 --> 01:33:04,590 I mean, I can't find the connection between the people in 1642 01:33:04,590 --> 01:33:07,980 knids and knids. itself and Bigelow, at that time, 1643 01:33:08,130 --> 01:33:13,590 connecting it to the motive for Wilson to say, you know what, 1644 01:33:13,800 --> 01:33:18,750 I'm going to chance that Shannon is being right, and Davis is 1645 01:33:18,750 --> 01:33:21,960 gonna keep his mouth shut. I just don't see why he would 1646 01:33:21,960 --> 01:33:23,580 gamble. And that's what I'm missing. 1647 01:33:23,940 --> 01:33:29,940 Jay: Yeah, no, totally. I think right. So Edgar Mitchell, when 1648 01:33:29,940 --> 01:33:32,850 Edgar Mitchell was part of the briefing in the initial Pentagon 1649 01:33:32,850 --> 01:33:35,550 briefing, he was already in its I'm pretty sure he was already a 1650 01:33:35,550 --> 01:33:36,780 member of the National Institute, 1651 01:33:37,110 --> 01:33:38,430 John Greenewald: advisory board, I believe, 1652 01:33:38,940 --> 01:33:42,780 Jay: as we bought. So the people so a member of this needs 1653 01:33:42,780 --> 01:33:48,210 advisory board was the was part of the briefing, you know, group 1654 01:33:48,240 --> 01:33:52,440 that first activated his interest in his desire to go off 1655 01:33:52,440 --> 01:33:54,720 and find these programs. And then he was apparently, you 1656 01:33:54,720 --> 01:33:57,570 know, subsequently denied access. So I think that had 1657 01:33:57,570 --> 01:34:00,840 already probably been demonstrated that knids was a 1658 01:34:00,840 --> 01:34:03,630 capable group because they were the ones that basically 1659 01:34:03,630 --> 01:34:07,410 alongside Dr. Steven Greer, but you know, all working as a team. 1660 01:34:08,220 --> 01:34:11,820 We're the first ones to show him potentially evidence of this 1661 01:34:11,820 --> 01:34:15,540 type of thing that set him off on this journey. So I also fall 1662 01:34:15,540 --> 01:34:18,090 back on the idea that I don't think he was particularly 1663 01:34:18,090 --> 01:34:21,810 reaching out to anyone after he made his you know, phone calls 1664 01:34:21,990 --> 01:34:25,560 to command the Miller and through it and then Edgar 1665 01:34:25,560 --> 01:34:29,070 Mitchell down the grapevine down the grapevine heard those, those 1666 01:34:29,070 --> 01:34:33,690 calls. I think that was probably the extent of it for him at that 1667 01:34:33,690 --> 01:34:36,990 time. You know, according to the nodes, he was threatened to be 1668 01:34:36,990 --> 01:34:39,060 chewed out, you know, dishonorable retirement, 1669 01:34:39,060 --> 01:34:43,230 basically. And so I think that they approached him they again, 1670 01:34:43,230 --> 01:34:45,990 Oak Shannon fru, Eric Davis, advanced theoretical physics 1671 01:34:45,990 --> 01:34:49,350 group, this little network. Oh, Shannon, for whatever reason, 1672 01:34:49,350 --> 01:34:52,920 maybe Eric mentioned it to him, decided to reach out to Admiral 1673 01:34:52,920 --> 01:34:56,340 Wilson and I guess provided a compelling enough reason for 1674 01:34:56,340 --> 01:35:01,140 Admiral Wilson to go well, I was chewed out for This, but I'm 1675 01:35:01,140 --> 01:35:03,480 going to, I'm going to do it I'm going to talk to you about it. 1676 01:35:03,480 --> 01:35:06,150 So I, you know, I don't think that Admiral Wilson was 1677 01:35:06,150 --> 01:35:10,980 particularly on the on the warpath at that time to try and 1678 01:35:10,980 --> 01:35:14,610 prove a point, I think that he had already faced that music 1679 01:35:14,610 --> 01:35:17,310 through his investigations and through being threatened by the 1680 01:35:17,310 --> 01:35:22,440 senior review group. And and then was basically prodded again 1681 01:35:22,440 --> 01:35:26,580 by oak Shannon. And for whatever reason, he decided to speak up 1682 01:35:26,580 --> 01:35:27,090 about it. 1683 01:35:27,510 --> 01:35:29,460 John Greenewald: I think that compelling reason which you had 1684 01:35:29,460 --> 01:35:33,000 said, and again, that's, that's what I'm missing. And it sounds 1685 01:35:33,000 --> 01:35:36,330 like maybe nobody knows that. Yeah, compelling reason fair to 1686 01:35:36,330 --> 01:35:38,250 say, ugly, because you need to, you'd need 1687 01:35:38,250 --> 01:35:40,860 Jay: to say something pretty bloody compelling to get someone 1688 01:35:40,860 --> 01:35:43,920 like this guy to open up, I completely agree with you, that 1689 01:35:43,920 --> 01:35:48,930 it's a crazy anomaly for someone like him to actually divulge 1690 01:35:48,930 --> 01:35:52,230 this kind of information. But I think that in alignment with 1691 01:35:52,260 --> 01:35:54,870 other parts of this conversation, again, that we've 1692 01:35:54,870 --> 01:35:57,810 mentioned, like Edgar Mitchell, statements about this, indeed 1693 01:35:57,810 --> 01:36:00,360 happening in a report being generated. And, you know, I 1694 01:36:00,360 --> 01:36:03,030 think that there's other areas of this, which just seem to 1695 01:36:03,030 --> 01:36:06,420 confirm or lean very, very heavily towards this being a 1696 01:36:06,420 --> 01:36:09,810 real scenario. So, yes, it's an anomaly. And I guess the 1697 01:36:09,810 --> 01:36:12,660 question is, why did this anomaly occur? If it occurred? 1698 01:36:12,690 --> 01:36:15,030 We don't have the answer for that. We don't we none of us 1699 01:36:15,030 --> 01:36:17,880 know. So, you know, that's, I think that is an issue of the 1700 01:36:17,880 --> 01:36:20,460 admiral Wilson leaks is there, there are areas of this where we 1701 01:36:20,460 --> 01:36:23,640 absolutely are having to rely on speculation. But there are also 1702 01:36:23,640 --> 01:36:26,190 areas of this where I think you are connecting dots, and there's 1703 01:36:26,190 --> 01:36:29,310 a lot of dots, there are quite a few flowing around. When you 1704 01:36:29,310 --> 01:36:32,490 start stringing them together, something really does seem to be 1705 01:36:32,490 --> 01:36:37,590 taking shape. And, you know, I mean, for example, I don't want 1706 01:36:37,590 --> 01:36:41,700 to speak for you on your theory, but with the TV script, or the 1707 01:36:41,700 --> 01:36:45,390 film script or anything like that. I mean, okay, I'll admit 1708 01:36:45,390 --> 01:36:48,720 that the carpark of eg and G special programs is a mysterious 1709 01:36:48,720 --> 01:36:50,940 sounding plays, and when, you know, it makes a brilliant 1710 01:36:50,940 --> 01:36:54,030 introductory scene in any good spy or intelligence based 1711 01:36:54,030 --> 01:36:57,720 thriller. But this is not enough to push for the case for this 1712 01:36:57,720 --> 01:37:00,660 being fictional, for example, not when you juxtapose this with 1713 01:37:00,660 --> 01:37:03,840 the, the compounding of all these other data points. And if 1714 01:37:03,840 --> 01:37:07,950 this was a film, or or, or TV treatment or storyboard, you 1715 01:37:07,950 --> 01:37:13,050 know, you'd have you'd have terminologies such as interior 1716 01:37:13,050 --> 01:37:15,960 or exterior, closer, mid range, long shot, you'd have some level 1717 01:37:15,960 --> 01:37:18,750 of like, you know, camera lighting, set directions, and 1718 01:37:18,750 --> 01:37:22,200 perhaps some description of the, of the weather or the ambience, 1719 01:37:22,230 --> 01:37:25,080 you know, you'd have notes from the script writers so that you 1720 01:37:25,080 --> 01:37:30,090 have a visual concept of how one thing can be shot. So that's 1721 01:37:30,090 --> 01:37:33,690 always appeared a little bit weak to me, because, you know, 1722 01:37:33,690 --> 01:37:36,720 not a single term using this transcript relates to production 1723 01:37:36,720 --> 01:37:40,080 terminologies at all. So, you know, obviously, the script, 1724 01:37:40,080 --> 01:37:41,520 sorry, just just real quick, no, no, no, 1725 01:37:41,550 --> 01:37:43,200 John Greenewald: that that's fine. I wanted to bring this up, 1726 01:37:43,200 --> 01:37:45,480 because I want you to throw whatever you want at me. But I 1727 01:37:45,480 --> 01:37:52,230 do want before we segue to that, again, going back about quite a 1728 01:37:52,230 --> 01:37:55,560 few minutes now, about your comment about evidence. And I 1729 01:37:55,560 --> 01:37:58,680 don't want to just keep you in the realm of speculation. So 1730 01:37:58,680 --> 01:38:01,620 before we get into the movie script, I want to go back to 1731 01:38:01,620 --> 01:38:05,400 that evidence part. Where what what am I missing? What do you 1732 01:38:05,400 --> 01:38:12,420 want to bring up? that supports the 2002? meeting? Outside of eg 1733 01:38:12,420 --> 01:38:16,590 and g? Like, what what evidence do you want to make sure that we 1734 01:38:16,590 --> 01:38:18,060 have in here that I've missed? 1735 01:38:18,119 --> 01:38:21,509 Jay: Well, I think I think I've gone for quite a few of the of 1736 01:38:21,509 --> 01:38:24,179 the reasons that I've given I mean, especially in relation to 1737 01:38:24,179 --> 01:38:27,389 comments. So you know, like the the admission, that seems to be 1738 01:38:27,389 --> 01:38:30,329 a pretty direct admission, in my opinion from hell puts off 1739 01:38:30,689 --> 01:38:35,339 about, about Eric Davis meeting the admiral and and interviewing 1740 01:38:35,339 --> 01:38:39,959 him about Edgar Mitchell, commercial confirming numerous 1741 01:38:39,959 --> 01:38:43,859 occasions that there was indeed this continuation from just this 1742 01:38:43,859 --> 01:38:48,419 particular one briefing of Shannon, you know, making it 1743 01:38:48,419 --> 01:38:51,089 quite clear that he does know Abra Wilson, this is kind of 1744 01:38:51,089 --> 01:38:56,249 what I'm saying is that, yes, there is no definitive fact, 1745 01:38:56,369 --> 01:39:00,689 that is the the most hardcore thing to focus on. It really 1746 01:39:00,689 --> 01:39:03,239 does seem to me that when you click a lot of these different 1747 01:39:03,389 --> 01:39:08,189 comments over time, you know, events that have transpired, it 1748 01:39:08,189 --> 01:39:11,459 really just seems to conglomerate into something that 1749 01:39:11,459 --> 01:39:15,689 has a lot of potential legitimacy behind it. And I just 1750 01:39:15,989 --> 01:39:18,929 the way that Admiral Wilson's behave, the way that commander 1751 01:39:18,929 --> 01:39:22,979 Miller's behave is exactly how they should behave if this is 1752 01:39:22,979 --> 01:39:27,179 real. And, you know, again, the statement from Eric Davis about 1753 01:39:27,179 --> 01:39:30,779 national security restrictions and ongoing programs and his own 1754 01:39:30,779 --> 01:39:34,169 personality traits that seemed to run contradictory to how he 1755 01:39:34,169 --> 01:39:37,109 would handle this if it was fictional, especially if it was 1756 01:39:37,109 --> 01:39:41,159 fictional. Eric Davis wouldn't wouldn't sit back and let this 1757 01:39:41,159 --> 01:39:44,159 happen. So you know, it's a lot of the things that I've already 1758 01:39:44,159 --> 01:39:47,009 mentioned I mean, George George Knapp as well is probably worth 1759 01:39:47,009 --> 01:39:49,649 mentioning just because he's a journalistic powerhouse in UFO 1760 01:39:49,649 --> 01:39:53,669 ology. Very well respected and connected. And, you know, he 1761 01:39:53,669 --> 01:39:55,949 he's very good friends with the folks over at nerds, especially 1762 01:39:55,949 --> 01:39:58,829 Robert Bigelow. So I think it's relevant to mention the fact 1763 01:39:58,829 --> 01:40:02,039 that George Knapp is also on record that the notes are real, 1764 01:40:02,069 --> 01:40:06,149 and that the meeting happened. And no. And also, you know, 1765 01:40:06,149 --> 01:40:08,999 you're aware of the recent work done by the researcher named 1766 01:40:08,999 --> 01:40:11,699 Britt, you know, she has done some very interesting digging 1767 01:40:11,699 --> 01:40:16,049 and uncovered, you know, government documentation that 1768 01:40:16,049 --> 01:40:19,799 strengthens the existence of gaps in oversight as it relates 1769 01:40:19,799 --> 01:40:23,879 to special access programs, subcategories. And so, you know, 1770 01:40:24,419 --> 01:40:26,999 I just think that it's more about the coalescing of 1771 01:40:26,999 --> 01:40:29,099 different data points and starting to string them 1772 01:40:29,099 --> 01:40:33,599 together. And I, I really do see a picture taking place here. And 1773 01:40:33,599 --> 01:40:36,869 yes, there are gaps. And yes, there are anomalies in this in 1774 01:40:36,869 --> 01:40:40,379 this issue. But I really don't think that the the, the 1775 01:40:40,379 --> 01:40:45,689 anomalies outweigh the signifiers of something very 1776 01:40:45,689 --> 01:40:48,839 strange going on here, you know, whether or not all of it is 1777 01:40:48,869 --> 01:40:55,229 honest and true, maybe not. But I am pretty, pretty certain that 1778 01:40:55,739 --> 01:40:58,919 the documents are real, that Eric Davis met with the admiral, 1779 01:40:59,009 --> 01:41:02,969 and, you know, there are off record comments, which is the 1780 01:41:02,999 --> 01:41:06,449 most frustrating thing that I've ever, you know, I before I came 1781 01:41:06,449 --> 01:41:10,439 into this subject, I was never dealing with people talking 1782 01:41:10,439 --> 01:41:13,469 about things off record. And on record, I've had to learn very 1783 01:41:13,469 --> 01:41:17,309 quickly to be able to understand how to talk about things online 1784 01:41:17,339 --> 01:41:21,239 and on a public forum, as I'm sure you have experience in the 1785 01:41:21,239 --> 01:41:23,939 same of having to do a little dance sometimes when students 1786 01:41:24,059 --> 01:41:27,209 come to you in the background. So you know, there are off 1787 01:41:27,209 --> 01:41:29,789 record comments that seem to very much strengthen the 1788 01:41:29,789 --> 01:41:34,679 legitimacy. So, you know, I understand that that comes from 1789 01:41:35,009 --> 01:41:37,859 the privilege of being in connection with certain people 1790 01:41:37,859 --> 01:41:40,559 and getting to hear things that most people don't get to hear. 1791 01:41:40,559 --> 01:41:43,169 So for anyone listening, it's just like, well, that's great, 1792 01:41:43,169 --> 01:41:45,299 you know, you get to hear something special and no one 1793 01:41:45,299 --> 01:41:49,889 else does. Well, you know, you know, boohoo for you like it 1794 01:41:49,889 --> 01:41:55,349 really does suck i understand that but those things the public 1795 01:41:55,349 --> 01:41:57,899 stuff, I just think that there's something here like I said at 1796 01:41:57,899 --> 01:42:00,929 the right at the beginning of this I'm not trying to sell the 1797 01:42:00,929 --> 01:42:05,579 documents as the entire situation from start to finish 1798 01:42:05,579 --> 01:42:08,879 is absolutely on point and everything in it is real. But it 1799 01:42:08,879 --> 01:42:12,149 really does seem to me like this is something that should be kept 1800 01:42:12,149 --> 01:42:16,769 within the you ufology circle, thrown around, examined over 1801 01:42:16,769 --> 01:42:20,969 time maybe trying to develop upon it. Like, you know, the the 1802 01:42:20,969 --> 01:42:23,729 mention of Brett is an important thing, because before Brett 1803 01:42:23,729 --> 01:42:26,789 turned up and kind of found a few extra little tidbits that 1804 01:42:26,789 --> 01:42:29,879 seemed to point towards the possibility of, you know, like 1805 01:42:29,879 --> 01:42:34,079 an obfuscation of oversights in these programs. This whole synth 1806 01:42:34,109 --> 01:42:36,839 situation was static for a minute. So it's kind of just 1807 01:42:36,869 --> 01:42:39,149 edged a little bit further forward, in my opinion, with the 1808 01:42:39,149 --> 01:42:41,429 fact that we've got documentation that confirms 1809 01:42:41,429 --> 01:42:45,599 that, hey, you know, oversight, oversight issues can exist, 1810 01:42:45,599 --> 01:42:48,029 especially in special access programs where things get very 1811 01:42:48,029 --> 01:42:52,829 murky. So, you know, I think that we've time this genuinely 1812 01:42:52,829 --> 01:42:56,309 might be developed upon to a very, very clear point. And, and 1813 01:42:56,309 --> 01:42:58,499 I think that, you know, the fact that people like Leslie Kane and 1814 01:42:58,499 --> 01:43:03,059 Ralph Blumenthal were, you know, willing to talk about this on 1815 01:43:03,059 --> 01:43:06,539 and off record. I just think that there's a lot of people 1816 01:43:06,539 --> 01:43:09,539 that find this to be very interesting and worthy of, you 1817 01:43:09,539 --> 01:43:11,219 know, scrutiny. So, 1818 01:43:11,430 --> 01:43:14,370 John Greenewald: so I'm with Ralph and Leslie. And before we 1819 01:43:14,370 --> 01:43:21,000 move to the, the, you know, the wild and crazy movie script, if 1820 01:43:21,000 --> 01:43:25,290 they're willing to look at it, and despite gaps and so on, I 1821 01:43:25,290 --> 01:43:29,640 mean, I've seen UFO stories that have a heck of a lot of gaps get 1822 01:43:29,640 --> 01:43:32,940 reported. Yeah. Why haven't we seen this in the New York Times? 1823 01:43:32,940 --> 01:43:38,250 Why haven't we seen a mainstream media outlet? Look at this, and 1824 01:43:38,250 --> 01:43:42,120 come up with even just a question mark, the shout out 1825 01:43:42,120 --> 01:43:46,410 that I want to give Billy Cox, who has done quite a bit over 1826 01:43:46,410 --> 01:43:49,110 the years, I'm not sure if you like his angle or not. But 1827 01:43:49,110 --> 01:43:52,620 regardless, my shout out is he digs and he's trying to get 1828 01:43:52,620 --> 01:43:56,340 these on the record comments. And from what I understood with 1829 01:43:56,340 --> 01:44:00,060 the online rumor mill, was that the New York Times was doing 1830 01:44:00,060 --> 01:44:05,580 this crash retrieval Wilson Davis story notes, expos a, and 1831 01:44:05,580 --> 01:44:09,510 we were gonna like that was it? This is gonna be, you know, a 1832 01:44:09,510 --> 01:44:12,330 disclosure, because New York Times is going to put their 1833 01:44:12,330 --> 01:44:16,020 masthead on it. And we all know that that just fell flat. Yeah. 1834 01:44:16,020 --> 01:44:19,380 So what is your opinion on that? I mean, if the evidence is 1835 01:44:19,380 --> 01:44:22,830 strong, why don't may and may not even be the New York Times, 1836 01:44:22,830 --> 01:44:26,850 but why not someone some outlet, take the gamble and go, you know 1837 01:44:26,850 --> 01:44:30,660 what, there is enough to at least say maybe. 1838 01:44:31,770 --> 01:44:36,540 Jay: So this is going back to what I was saying before about 1839 01:44:36,630 --> 01:44:40,260 how I've had to have a steep learning curve in knowing what I 1840 01:44:40,260 --> 01:44:48,690 can and can't say on record. But I know, I know that this was 1841 01:44:48,690 --> 01:44:51,600 something that they wanted to include in the New York Times, 1842 01:44:51,630 --> 01:44:57,300 and it wasn't necessarily it was it wasn't necessarily their own 1843 01:44:57,300 --> 01:45:00,390 actions that caused that to potentially not be In the New 1844 01:45:00,390 --> 01:45:03,480 York Times, so I mean, there's, there's a bit more of a 1845 01:45:03,480 --> 01:45:08,460 backstory to that. Yeah, I yeah, I've got to be a bit cautious 1846 01:45:08,460 --> 01:45:08,940 with that. 1847 01:45:08,999 --> 01:45:11,159 John Greenewald: I understand and and they probably interest 1848 01:45:11,159 --> 01:45:14,909 and that's fine. where I'm going with this as if this is solid 1849 01:45:14,909 --> 01:45:17,849 and the New York Times powers that be want to say yeah, you 1850 01:45:17,849 --> 01:45:22,319 can't no way which I would doubt because they've taken Gamble's 1851 01:45:22,349 --> 01:45:26,099 they did the a tip story, kudos to them which coincided with the 1852 01:45:26,099 --> 01:45:29,069 political story but they broke that they're breaking those 1853 01:45:29,069 --> 01:45:30,119 types of boundaries. 1854 01:45:30,659 --> 01:45:34,109 Jay: I think I think one of the issues sorry to cut you off but 1855 01:45:34,109 --> 01:45:37,649 no, no, it's okay. I think one of the issues and this is 1856 01:45:37,649 --> 01:45:41,009 something that I'm sure you will understand is that they weren't 1857 01:45:41,009 --> 01:45:43,859 able to get people to go on record about confirming the 1858 01:45:43,859 --> 01:45:49,229 legitimacy of these documents. So I think that they tried, and 1859 01:45:49,229 --> 01:45:52,019 this is just kind of informed speculation on my side, but I 1860 01:45:52,019 --> 01:45:55,529 think that they tried their best to model this within any sort of 1861 01:45:55,529 --> 01:46:00,659 potential articles. As, as an addition to other conversations 1862 01:46:00,659 --> 01:46:02,609 they were may be having, I mean, you got to remember that Eric 1863 01:46:02,609 --> 01:46:05,369 Davis was quoted by the New York Times to say that there have 1864 01:46:05,369 --> 01:46:07,829 been offworld retrievals, and, you know, offworld, vehicle 1865 01:46:08,069 --> 01:46:11,789 retrievals, he was quite brazen about that in the New York 1866 01:46:11,789 --> 01:46:17,819 Times. And, and I want to say he said, not from this earth or not 1867 01:46:17,819 --> 01:46:21,089 of this earth, there was the quote, and this is very close to 1868 01:46:21,089 --> 01:46:23,939 what was said in the Wilson documents when it said, you 1869 01:46:23,939 --> 01:46:27,119 know, that these crafts were offworld, not made by human 1870 01:46:27,119 --> 01:46:27,539 hands 1871 01:46:27,570 --> 01:46:31,020 John Greenewald: made by human not made by man, not by human 1872 01:46:31,020 --> 01:46:32,280 hands. That's exactly 1873 01:46:32,280 --> 01:46:35,670 Jay: what this for. And so and so, you know, you've got a quite 1874 01:46:35,670 --> 01:46:38,550 similar wording structure with the quotes that they were given 1875 01:46:38,550 --> 01:46:43,320 by Eric Davis, but I think that it probably did come down to, 1876 01:46:43,890 --> 01:46:46,560 unfortunately, the New York Times looking at it as a 1877 01:46:46,560 --> 01:46:49,890 situation that didn't have enough behind it. So that's fair 1878 01:46:49,890 --> 01:46:53,520 enough to acknowledge that I do acknowledge that simply because 1879 01:46:53,640 --> 01:46:57,150 they have a kind of strict prerequisite for getting 1880 01:46:57,150 --> 01:46:59,610 something into the New York Times, which involves, I think 1881 01:46:59,610 --> 01:47:02,130 they said, when they were on their interview with me that you 1882 01:47:02,130 --> 01:47:05,760 usually need at least two corroborating sources that are 1883 01:47:05,760 --> 01:47:09,300 willing to go out and put their name on the line for something 1884 01:47:09,300 --> 01:47:13,320 like this to take place. And so they didn't reach that with with 1885 01:47:13,320 --> 01:47:16,140 the with the admiral Wilson scenario. And so I think that if 1886 01:47:16,140 --> 01:47:20,790 there was any sort of plan to include that, it was, it was 1887 01:47:20,790 --> 01:47:23,610 probably taken out because of the fact that they can't 1888 01:47:23,820 --> 01:47:27,780 directly unequivocally confirm it to be accurate, which is a 1889 01:47:27,780 --> 01:47:30,510 shame, because I think that you should still be able to put out 1890 01:47:30,510 --> 01:47:33,780 an opinion piece, I still think that this should this could very 1891 01:47:33,810 --> 01:47:37,860 easily. And you know, in fact, I spoke with Stephen Greenstreet, 1892 01:47:37,860 --> 01:47:42,300 not that long ago, and, and when we were having a back and forth, 1893 01:47:42,300 --> 01:47:44,940 he was like, you know, I'm probably going to try and pitch 1894 01:47:44,940 --> 01:47:48,210 this up to the New York Post, again, through this way of 1895 01:47:48,270 --> 01:47:50,790 looking at it that you've just explained, because I said, you 1896 01:47:50,790 --> 01:47:53,880 know, it doesn't have to be an opinion, it doesn't have to be 1897 01:47:54,000 --> 01:47:57,000 like absolute fact, it can still be an opinion piece, it could 1898 01:47:57,000 --> 01:48:00,300 still be written in a way that allows for people to finish that 1899 01:48:00,300 --> 01:48:03,930 and go, Oh, maybe that could be true. Or maybe it's not, um, get 1900 01:48:03,930 --> 01:48:06,000 people thinking about it, you don't have to have a really 1901 01:48:06,000 --> 01:48:08,790 biased perspective of like, you know, there's, there's no way 1902 01:48:08,790 --> 01:48:11,400 this can be denied, because that's not true. There are ways 1903 01:48:11,400 --> 01:48:14,550 in which this can be questioned. But I think there's enough there 1904 01:48:14,790 --> 01:48:18,090 for people to be interested and enough there for people to be, 1905 01:48:18,120 --> 01:48:20,100 you know, intrigued as to whether or not this could 1906 01:48:20,100 --> 01:48:24,870 happen. And it could, it could spark the wheel of momentum. And 1907 01:48:24,870 --> 01:48:27,660 maybe you'd get more people from the intelligence infrastructure 1908 01:48:27,660 --> 01:48:31,350 coming out and putting something towards this. So I think that 1909 01:48:31,350 --> 01:48:36,630 it, it represents a capability to be in the mainstream media, I 1910 01:48:36,630 --> 01:48:39,030 just think that they were dealing in fact, I know, they 1911 01:48:39,030 --> 01:48:42,420 were dealing with some very strenuous editorial processes 1912 01:48:42,420 --> 01:48:46,230 going through the New York Times superstructure. Sure. You know, 1913 01:48:46,230 --> 01:48:51,120 so I think that there's a lot of red tape involved in that side. 1914 01:48:51,180 --> 01:48:53,640 John Greenewald: And like I said, I think that even if it 1915 01:48:53,640 --> 01:48:56,460 wasn't the New York Times, you know, Leslie Kane is a 1916 01:48:56,460 --> 01:48:59,700 freelancer. And I believe Ralph, although work and I could be 1917 01:48:59,700 --> 01:49:02,760 wrong, but worked for them at one point is now considered a 1918 01:49:02,760 --> 01:49:05,640 freelancer and so on. So as a freelancer, they can just say, 1919 01:49:05,670 --> 01:49:08,880 Alright, you guys want to do your stupid red tape thing? sia, 1920 01:49:09,150 --> 01:49:11,850 and you know, somewhere else if it was strong enough, but maybe 1921 01:49:11,850 --> 01:49:15,870 we'll see that before I move on. Evidence wise, just to close 1922 01:49:15,870 --> 01:49:19,800 that. I want to make sure that I am not cutting you off or 1923 01:49:19,800 --> 01:49:22,350 anything like that. Is there anything else that you want to 1924 01:49:22,350 --> 01:49:24,240 make sure that you get in before we move on? 1925 01:49:24,420 --> 01:49:27,090 Jay: I'm happy to go where you want to take this now. You know, 1926 01:49:27,090 --> 01:49:30,150 we've almost been going for two hours. Now. This is crazy. I 1927 01:49:30,150 --> 01:49:30,390 think 1928 01:49:30,420 --> 01:49:32,340 John Greenewald: I you know, I know we had a little bit of the 1929 01:49:32,340 --> 01:49:36,900 technical hiccup but about an hour hour 45 or so more. I'm 1930 01:49:36,900 --> 01:49:39,750 happy to keep going. I'm here Okay, for another 15 minutes or 1931 01:49:39,750 --> 01:49:43,770 so. Yeah, yeah. Perfect. Awesome. So then so now we'll go 1932 01:49:43,770 --> 01:49:46,140 to the movie script which you had brought up and just to kind 1933 01:49:46,140 --> 01:49:48,750 of preface it for the audience who isn't aware I've got a video 1934 01:49:48,750 --> 01:49:52,890 link it into the show notes, where I post a theory and I want 1935 01:49:52,890 --> 01:49:55,980 to stress the word theory. I was not saying that I believed 1936 01:49:55,980 --> 01:49:59,070 wholeheartedly. These were the notes. It was a possible 1937 01:49:59,070 --> 01:50:03,540 explanation. Also in the title of the thing of the video, I 1938 01:50:03,540 --> 01:50:06,450 think that that got misconstrued not by Jay or placing the 1939 01:50:06,450 --> 01:50:09,480 accusation. But in the twitterverse, you know that john 1940 01:50:09,480 --> 01:50:14,190 thinks it's a movie script. My intention was to show a, in my 1941 01:50:14,190 --> 01:50:19,020 opinion, very plausible, alternate explanation. And what 1942 01:50:19,020 --> 01:50:22,440 I found fascinating was number one, the reaction to it, right? 1943 01:50:22,440 --> 01:50:25,920 I mean, like, there was some some very choice words from 1944 01:50:25,920 --> 01:50:30,870 people. But number two, it was, well, I'm sorry to say that 1945 01:50:30,870 --> 01:50:31,230 again. 1946 01:50:31,650 --> 01:50:34,410 Jay: I said probably for me as well. I'm sorry for anyone 1947 01:50:34,410 --> 01:50:37,410 previous previous Twitter comments, I threw your way, 1948 01:50:37,410 --> 01:50:37,740 john. 1949 01:50:37,890 --> 01:50:40,170 John Greenewald: No, I and I'm not worried about it. Like you 1950 01:50:40,170 --> 01:50:43,890 use Twitter, you have to have a thick skin and like we've water 1951 01:50:43,890 --> 01:50:47,910 under the bridge note no problem. But that said, the 1952 01:50:47,910 --> 01:50:51,690 intent was to show again, that positive alternative, a story 1953 01:50:51,690 --> 01:50:55,350 based on real characters with real names, and real events 1954 01:50:55,350 --> 01:51:00,360 using as a launching point to create a narrative. And you 1955 01:51:00,360 --> 01:51:03,540 noted it, that it doesn't look like a script, there's no 1956 01:51:03,540 --> 01:51:06,450 elements in this and that, but if you watch the video, what I 1957 01:51:06,450 --> 01:51:11,370 do is explain that yes, it's a very amateurish attempt, which 1958 01:51:11,370 --> 01:51:14,250 in television, I've produced quite a bit for networks over 1959 01:51:14,250 --> 01:51:18,000 here, History Channel discovery. And in those processes, when 1960 01:51:18,000 --> 01:51:21,480 you're, I worked my way up to a supervising producer. So when 1961 01:51:21,480 --> 01:51:24,570 you're in that position, a lot of times you'll have people that 1962 01:51:24,570 --> 01:51:27,570 will come to you and say, Hey, do you mind looking at this and 1963 01:51:27,570 --> 01:51:30,780 taking a look at it, see where I go wrong? Those that one to move 1964 01:51:30,780 --> 01:51:34,590 up and right? And they take stabs at scripts, those are what 1965 01:51:34,590 --> 01:51:38,400 I liken this to somebody who wants to do it, or maybe wants 1966 01:51:38,400 --> 01:51:42,690 to take a stab at it, but hasn't necessarily gone through, you 1967 01:51:42,690 --> 01:51:47,640 know, the formal training now, where I look at this. And again, 1968 01:51:47,640 --> 01:51:51,480 close the pose, the theory is that you have dialogue, you have 1969 01:51:51,480 --> 01:51:54,360 scene settings, which are script elements. I know you can say 1970 01:51:54,360 --> 01:51:59,490 that, or admit to that part. But also the interjections which I 1971 01:51:59,490 --> 01:52:02,430 thought were silly, you know, like Thomas Wilson going let me 1972 01:52:02,430 --> 01:52:05,520 finish with an exclamation point, those types of quirky 1973 01:52:05,520 --> 01:52:09,060 things now as Dr. Davis, you know, quirky. And that's how he 1974 01:52:09,060 --> 01:52:13,950 makes notes. Sure, I could be open to that. Or this was just a 1975 01:52:13,980 --> 01:52:17,730 dialogue. But again, the intent was to show what could be a 1976 01:52:17,730 --> 01:52:21,870 plausible explanation. The people that came after me about 1977 01:52:21,870 --> 01:52:26,250 it just said it was stupid. But they never really countered with 1978 01:52:26,250 --> 01:52:29,790 anything other than, well, that can't be true. And it's like, 1979 01:52:29,790 --> 01:52:35,100 you don't want to, not you, but the those that are advocating 1980 01:52:35,100 --> 01:52:39,540 that these notes are real, they don't want to have the burden of 1981 01:52:39,540 --> 01:52:42,750 proof, meaning, there's a lot of conjecture, which you've 1982 01:52:42,750 --> 01:52:45,540 admitted, you have to speculate a little bit, you got to fill in 1983 01:52:45,540 --> 01:52:50,220 the gaps, and so on. But with an alternate theory, dismiss it 1984 01:52:50,220 --> 01:52:54,780 outright. No way. That's not true. I know for a fact, no way. 1985 01:52:54,960 --> 01:52:58,530 And they, they, they go back to it being real. And again, I'm 1986 01:52:58,530 --> 01:53:01,500 not, I'm not accusing you of that, unless you want to say 1987 01:53:01,500 --> 01:53:04,530 that that's how you feel, which is fine. But but that's what I 1988 01:53:04,530 --> 01:53:08,940 gathered from that was, that can't be true, because I don't 1989 01:53:08,940 --> 01:53:12,930 want to believe it, ergo, it's not true. But this is true. But 1990 01:53:12,930 --> 01:53:15,720 we have to speculate fill in the gaps and maybe twist some words 1991 01:53:15,720 --> 01:53:19,560 here and there. And so that is the conclusion that they have 1992 01:53:19,680 --> 01:53:23,490 come to. And so that's really kind of the foundation that I 1993 01:53:23,490 --> 01:53:26,550 wanted to make sure everybody who hasn't seen those videos 1994 01:53:26,550 --> 01:53:29,670 know that that's where I was coming from. So I'll pass it to 1995 01:53:29,670 --> 01:53:29,910 you. 1996 01:53:30,150 --> 01:53:35,850 Jay: So I mean, yes, speculating about, you know, the ifs and 1997 01:53:35,940 --> 01:53:40,260 buts and maybes of the documents. I mean, there's, 1998 01:53:40,290 --> 01:53:43,770 there's no, there's no direct real evidence of this being a 1999 01:53:43,770 --> 01:53:47,580 script, as you've acknowledged in terms of terminologies. So 2000 01:53:47,580 --> 01:53:49,830 you're, you're having to speculate that it's a very 2001 01:53:49,830 --> 01:53:53,190 amateur script, because I actually write down all of the 2002 01:53:53,190 --> 01:53:55,860 dialogue between you and I, and then just say, that's a script, 2003 01:53:56,100 --> 01:53:59,670 you know, and for a movie or something. And, and that's 2004 01:53:59,670 --> 01:54:03,090 basically what you've got, yes, there's very strange ways in 2005 01:54:03,090 --> 01:54:07,770 which is worded. But Eric Davis is a bit of a weird like savant, 2006 01:54:07,770 --> 01:54:11,670 who seems to remember so much detail. So he was, and it seems 2007 01:54:11,670 --> 01:54:13,980 like based on what Admiral Wilson was saying to him in the 2008 01:54:13,980 --> 01:54:16,830 description, in the notes, that he was aware that he was taking 2009 01:54:16,830 --> 01:54:19,290 notes that he was jotting down things because he says, What are 2010 01:54:19,290 --> 01:54:22,680 you going to do with all this information? So I think that he 2011 01:54:22,680 --> 01:54:26,160 was probably taken very quick notes in real time and fleshed 2012 01:54:26,160 --> 01:54:30,060 it out maybe after the fact. But I think that it's it's more, 2013 01:54:30,090 --> 01:54:33,870 it's more just likely a testament to his, his intellect, 2014 01:54:34,410 --> 01:54:39,690 that there's this very strange level of detail. But the the 2015 01:54:39,690 --> 01:54:42,990 script, the script writing thing gets me because I feel like you 2016 01:54:42,990 --> 01:54:48,660 have to juxtapose the amateur script writing that has no 2017 01:54:48,660 --> 01:54:52,530 production terminologies in it whatsoever. With the exquisit 2018 01:54:53,100 --> 01:54:55,770 knowledge in detail that is presented in the admiral Wilson 2019 01:54:55,770 --> 01:54:59,370 documents relating to program terminologies, you know, Special 2020 01:54:59,370 --> 01:55:03,090 Access Program. The chairman of the Office of our staff, there's 2021 01:55:03,090 --> 01:55:06,810 a lot of terminology, the ATP, the advanced theoretical physics 2022 01:55:06,810 --> 01:55:07,200 group. 2023 01:55:08,309 --> 01:55:10,349 John Greenewald: But what in there not to step on you? What 2024 01:55:10,349 --> 01:55:15,869 in there is new? That wasn't publicly available? No, 2025 01:55:16,499 --> 01:55:20,339 Jay: absolutely, but definitely not widely publicly available. 2026 01:55:20,339 --> 01:55:23,159 So I'm just wondering who wrote this script? For what for what 2027 01:55:23,159 --> 01:55:26,039 reason? Why was it never adapted into anything? Why have we never 2028 01:55:26,039 --> 01:55:29,309 heard about a company that was looking to do this, there's, I'm 2029 01:55:29,309 --> 01:55:32,789 just saying that they based on face value of, of calling it a 2030 01:55:32,789 --> 01:55:35,519 script, that doesn't seem to be a whole lot of evidence for it 2031 01:55:35,519 --> 01:55:38,939 being a script, other than the fact that it's, you know, well, 2032 01:55:38,969 --> 01:55:42,929 well worded and kind of like beefed out and seems almost a 2033 01:55:42,929 --> 01:55:47,609 little too, you know, data intense to even be a 2034 01:55:47,639 --> 01:55:51,869 conversation. But we are dealing with someone who, like, you 2035 01:55:51,869 --> 01:55:55,349 know, Lou Elizondo said is a very brilliant mind. And he does 2036 01:55:55,349 --> 01:55:59,339 have an extremely keen memory. But the thing is, as well, in 2037 01:55:59,339 --> 01:56:04,259 order to, in order for this to be a fictional script, we do 2038 01:56:04,259 --> 01:56:08,819 have to be calling Eric Davis or help us off liars, you know, 2039 01:56:08,819 --> 01:56:12,269 individuals who've dedicated their careers towards finding 2040 01:56:12,269 --> 01:56:15,869 out as much as they can about the UFO issue. I just don't 2041 01:56:15,869 --> 01:56:19,499 know, why would they decide to write a fictional script? Or if 2042 01:56:19,499 --> 01:56:20,279 it was, if it was, 2043 01:56:20,310 --> 01:56:21,390 John Greenewald: who said they wrote it? 2044 01:56:21,570 --> 01:56:23,880 Jay: Well, that was about to say, if if it was given to them 2045 01:56:23,970 --> 01:56:27,540 circulated amongst the core members of a highly professional 2046 01:56:27,540 --> 01:56:30,450 UFO research group, and then allow Edgar Mitchell to go live 2047 01:56:30,450 --> 01:56:34,020 on CNN with Larry King to talk about it? And then give their 2048 01:56:34,020 --> 01:56:36,540 strange comments, and then, you know, there's been other 2049 01:56:36,540 --> 01:56:40,680 statements, you know, I just, I just it like, there's there 2050 01:56:40,680 --> 01:56:44,430 doesn't seem to be enough for me to say, yeah, there's there's 2051 01:56:44,430 --> 01:56:46,830 definitely something here that says that it could be a 2052 01:56:46,830 --> 01:56:50,370 production storyboard even a short, really basic one, even a 2053 01:56:50,400 --> 01:56:51,540 really basic one. 2054 01:56:51,960 --> 01:56:54,180 John Greenewald: So I know you suck, because you commented on 2055 01:56:54,180 --> 01:56:57,210 it. You had a an animated GIF response, where there was 2056 01:56:57,210 --> 01:56:59,640 somebody who worked in television and said to them, it 2057 01:56:59,640 --> 01:57:02,520 looked like a movie script or something like that. There's 2058 01:57:02,520 --> 01:57:05,190 been quite a few comments on the video as well. And both ways 2059 01:57:05,190 --> 01:57:07,380 people attack I'm not saying that all of my audience agrees 2060 01:57:07,380 --> 01:57:10,440 with me. No, I'm not saying that. What I'm saying, though, 2061 01:57:10,440 --> 01:57:13,410 is that there are people that support that theory in the sense 2062 01:57:13,410 --> 01:57:16,890 that they have that background, they can, they can see that 2063 01:57:16,890 --> 01:57:19,860 connection. But here's my overall point is that, again, 2064 01:57:19,860 --> 01:57:23,400 it's just a possibility. I'm not betting my house on this. But in 2065 01:57:23,400 --> 01:57:28,140 order for the script theory to really be made, to really be 2066 01:57:28,140 --> 01:57:31,740 solidified, you need to essentially speculate, right, 2067 01:57:31,950 --> 01:57:35,100 you need to fill in the gaps, right, you need to fill in the 2068 01:57:35,100 --> 01:57:38,340 holes, because not everything there is to prove that this is a 2069 01:57:38,340 --> 01:57:41,610 script. And you need to take the support structure from other 2070 01:57:41,610 --> 01:57:45,990 people that are out there that may know and feel that this is a 2071 01:57:45,990 --> 01:57:49,290 script that they come along bored with it. And here's my 2072 01:57:49,290 --> 01:57:51,810 point. Is that what's different with that, 2073 01:57:52,140 --> 01:57:56,520 Jay: Jones? I just lost my Wi Fi connection. That's okay. I just 2074 01:57:56,520 --> 01:57:58,590 lost about 1015 seconds. 2075 01:57:58,800 --> 01:58:01,410 John Greenewald: No problem. I can go back, which was the last 2076 01:58:01,410 --> 01:58:01,800 you. 2077 01:58:04,110 --> 01:58:06,660 Jay: I honestly can't remember because I was just frantically 2078 01:58:06,660 --> 01:58:08,250 trying to get my Wi Fi to come out. That's, 2079 01:58:08,370 --> 01:58:11,610 John Greenewald: that's okay. Just take back your phone. So 2080 01:58:11,610 --> 01:58:14,040 yeah, yeah. Then I'll start the thought over and hopefully make 2081 01:58:14,040 --> 01:58:18,690 it more concise. But so in order for the script theory, because 2082 01:58:18,690 --> 01:58:21,930 again, I'm not betting my house on this to make sense. or excuse 2083 01:58:21,930 --> 01:58:25,890 me, let me start over and I'll edit that stumble out. No, I 2084 01:58:25,890 --> 01:58:29,430 want this. So everybody can see my stumbles. I don't want to cut 2085 01:58:29,430 --> 01:58:33,180 anything out. So in order for the script theory to make sense, 2086 01:58:33,180 --> 01:58:36,150 I'm not betting my house on this, that this is the absolute 2087 01:58:36,150 --> 01:58:39,690 truth. But in order for that, to make sense, you need to fill in 2088 01:58:39,690 --> 01:58:42,660 the gaps, right? You need to speculate a little bit. Because 2089 01:58:42,660 --> 01:58:45,390 the evidence is not there. I fully admit that that this is 2090 01:58:45,390 --> 01:58:48,900 100%, a movie scripts, just a theory. But you need to 2091 01:58:48,900 --> 01:58:51,960 speculate you need to fill in the gaps. There are enough 2092 01:58:51,960 --> 01:58:56,550 people that have commented that have, according to them a 2093 01:58:57,180 --> 01:59:00,480 entertainment background where they can see the possibility. So 2094 01:59:00,480 --> 01:59:03,660 I have a support structure. I'm not saying my entire audience 2095 01:59:03,660 --> 01:59:07,230 feels that way. In fact, a lot of people disagree. But I have 2096 01:59:07,230 --> 01:59:10,650 that support structure from people that know about it that 2097 01:59:10,650 --> 01:59:14,400 say, You know what? That's very well, that could very well be 2098 01:59:14,400 --> 01:59:18,450 true. So I have all of that. And my question to you is what is 2099 01:59:18,450 --> 01:59:22,980 different than what we've talked about for the last hour 45, from 2100 01:59:23,010 --> 01:59:27,450 what I feel, is kind of the same way for advocating for the 2101 01:59:27,450 --> 01:59:30,300 documents, you have gaps, you have to speculate a little bit, 2102 01:59:30,450 --> 01:59:33,930 you got to read in between the lines a little bit, you got to 2103 01:59:34,440 --> 01:59:37,710 essentially, forgive that the phrasing but make up the middle 2104 01:59:37,980 --> 01:59:41,340 to get to the end where these things are real. And that's what 2105 01:59:41,340 --> 01:59:45,390 I was so fascinated by that people would dismiss the theory 2106 01:59:45,840 --> 01:59:49,710 and call me every name in the book and say it was stupid, but 2107 01:59:49,710 --> 01:59:52,920 they never really explained why they just said no that you can't 2108 01:59:52,920 --> 01:59:54,720 be proved. So what is the difference? 2109 01:59:54,960 --> 01:59:58,080 Jay: Well, I think because I you know I haven't worked in the 2110 01:59:58,080 --> 02:00:00,930 industry, but I did a degree in TV and film. So I've got a 2111 02:00:00,930 --> 02:00:03,450 background in like reading scripts or treatments or 2112 02:00:03,450 --> 02:00:07,140 storyboards or anything like that. If I was given the notes 2113 02:00:07,140 --> 02:00:09,930 and I had no background in UFO ology, and I didn't know about 2114 02:00:10,230 --> 02:00:13,980 these people, and I read it, I'd say, Well, yeah, but that looks 2115 02:00:13,980 --> 02:00:16,320 like it's a story. Like, you know, this looks like it could 2116 02:00:16,320 --> 02:00:20,760 be a story. But I think that, that you did say, and you're 2117 02:00:20,760 --> 02:00:23,190 right, there's speculation on both sides. I feel like there's 2118 02:00:23,190 --> 02:00:26,100 more speculation on the script side, because there's no 2119 02:00:26,100 --> 02:00:29,790 evidence for being a script, like there's no direct evidence 2120 02:00:29,820 --> 02:00:33,780 in the actual writing of it being used for production or any 2121 02:00:33,780 --> 02:00:36,780 intention of it being used for production. But when you look at 2122 02:00:36,780 --> 02:00:40,380 the other side of this, there seems to be and again, like, I 2123 02:00:40,380 --> 02:00:42,630 can't go through everything that I've gone over. But the 2124 02:00:42,630 --> 02:00:47,220 statements the the connections to things in the in the in the 2125 02:00:47,250 --> 02:00:50,880 in the notes, like the ATP being mentioned, there's a lot of 2126 02:00:50,880 --> 02:00:56,730 stuff in here that would suggest a very, very detailed knowledge 2127 02:00:56,760 --> 02:01:00,900 of not only UFO ology, but the inner workings of the 2128 02:01:00,900 --> 02:01:04,230 governmental structure of special access programs, who 2129 02:01:04,230 --> 02:01:08,130 coordinates them who looks at the oversight. And, and again, 2130 02:01:08,130 --> 02:01:10,680 you do have these statements from people like Edgar Mitchell 2131 02:01:10,680 --> 02:01:14,520 and the strange statements from helpers, often Eric Davis. So I 2132 02:01:14,520 --> 02:01:17,340 think that there's I think there's a lot more supporting 2133 02:01:17,340 --> 02:01:19,590 the idea that this is potentially legitimate than 2134 02:01:19,590 --> 02:01:22,770 there is for supporting, you know, the script, if there was 2135 02:01:22,770 --> 02:01:26,400 one, bracket, e x t, close bracket in there, I would be 2136 02:01:26,400 --> 02:01:29,670 very suspicious, you know, saying that it was some sort of 2137 02:01:29,670 --> 02:01:33,960 a particular shot or some sort of particular scene, open scene, 2138 02:01:34,080 --> 02:01:38,280 Eg and G, you know, the admiral pulls up the car, you know, that 2139 02:01:38,280 --> 02:01:38,670 all of 2140 02:01:38,670 --> 02:01:40,770 John Greenewald: that is what three quarters of what you just 2141 02:01:40,770 --> 02:01:44,070 said is in there, it just didn't have X t for exterior in the 2142 02:01:44,070 --> 02:01:47,580 script. And I think that that that again, leans into the 2143 02:01:47,580 --> 02:01:53,730 amateurish approach that that I think somebody could take, so 2144 02:01:53,730 --> 02:01:57,930 it's speculation to just say, well, we didn't see e x t. So we 2145 02:01:57,930 --> 02:01:58,620 have to 2146 02:01:58,830 --> 02:02:02,460 Jay: write right, like, like I said, I am honestly just gonna 2147 02:02:02,460 --> 02:02:05,040 have to fall back on all of the things that I've already listed 2148 02:02:05,040 --> 02:02:07,920 in this conversation and say that I feel like there's more of 2149 02:02:07,920 --> 02:02:11,160 those things than there are for being on the side of a script. 2150 02:02:11,160 --> 02:02:15,090 Like if there was a lot of different signifiers of this 2151 02:02:15,090 --> 02:02:19,350 being some sort of dramatize situation, you know, then I 2152 02:02:19,350 --> 02:02:22,440 would, I would agree, but the thing is, there's dialogue in 2153 02:02:22,470 --> 02:02:25,890 these notes that's been confirmed by people outside of 2154 02:02:25,890 --> 02:02:28,680 just the existence of these notes. Again, Edgar Mitchell 2155 02:02:28,680 --> 02:02:31,380 confirming that there was some sort of investigatory journal 2156 02:02:31,500 --> 02:02:34,800 journey done by a vice admiral who was denied access, and other 2157 02:02:34,800 --> 02:02:37,980 people who have also said similar things. So you've got, I 2158 02:02:37,980 --> 02:02:41,730 feel like you've got more on the side of this being a real 2159 02:02:41,730 --> 02:02:46,170 situation, I'm not seeing, like, I guess you're not seeing on my 2160 02:02:46,200 --> 02:02:48,750 on my perspective on some of this, I'm not seeing enough 2161 02:02:48,750 --> 02:02:52,800 evidence for me to be satisfied with it being a production 2162 02:02:52,800 --> 02:02:57,510 script. I'm happy to acknowledge that there could be issues in 2163 02:02:57,510 --> 02:03:01,950 this story. Maybe Admiral Wilson was told lies, maybe he lied to 2164 02:03:01,950 --> 02:03:05,910 Eric Davis. So we don't know if everything is completely, you 2165 02:03:05,910 --> 02:03:13,200 know, true. But I personally am not seeing the evidence for a TV 2166 02:03:13,200 --> 02:03:18,870 script outside of some dramatize styles of writing. And an Eric 2167 02:03:18,870 --> 02:03:25,320 Davis is a is an interesting guy, and has a has a penchant 2168 02:03:25,320 --> 02:03:29,640 for drama. So he's, he's quite dramatic character anyway, so I 2169 02:03:29,640 --> 02:03:33,120 could imagine him writing it in this way. But um, yeah, when it 2170 02:03:33,120 --> 02:03:36,750 comes to kind of like the war of speculations, I kind of feel 2171 02:03:36,750 --> 02:03:41,970 like there's more speculation for it to be incorporated into a 2172 02:03:42,000 --> 02:03:45,930 treatment script storyboard than there is for this to be a 2173 02:03:45,930 --> 02:03:48,150 potentially real scenario. 2174 02:03:50,100 --> 02:03:53,460 John Greenewald: I, I find it interesting that one of the key 2175 02:03:53,460 --> 02:03:58,560 players and advocates for the notes who's involved with it is 2176 02:03:58,560 --> 02:04:02,880 heavily involved with making entertainment scripted programs. 2177 02:04:03,270 --> 02:04:08,550 Who's Steven Greer. Right, and he's got now I will not say that 2178 02:04:08,550 --> 02:04:11,970 I think that he made it but what I will say is that's in the same 2179 02:04:12,000 --> 02:04:14,910 arena from those who are advocating that there's 2180 02:04:14,910 --> 02:04:18,390 something real. And it just so happens that there's this, I 2181 02:04:18,390 --> 02:04:22,440 would say, dark and shady past that Edgar Mitchell himself, was 2182 02:04:22,440 --> 02:04:26,460 very upset that Steven Greer was overreaching with the claims 2183 02:04:26,460 --> 02:04:29,610 that he was making. And so that's why in my opinion, well, 2184 02:04:29,610 --> 02:04:32,160 I sit here and go I think Steven Greer wrote this No, that's not 2185 02:04:32,160 --> 02:04:35,190 what I'm saying. But I'm saying you can't say he didn't either. 2186 02:04:35,490 --> 02:04:39,870 Because the past is there with the honorable American that you 2187 02:04:39,870 --> 02:04:44,700 speak very highly, highly of and Soto I was pretty upset at Dr. 2188 02:04:44,700 --> 02:04:49,500 Steven Greer for saying things that weren't true. And when, you 2189 02:04:49,500 --> 02:04:52,800 know, when I asked Dr. Greer, are the notes real? And the 2190 02:04:52,800 --> 02:04:55,530 quote I'm paraphrasing he said yeah, pretty much across the 2191 02:04:55,530 --> 02:04:59,220 board, and that he would want to go line by line with me and 2192 02:04:59,250 --> 02:05:02,640 while I mean we'll see if That never happens. But there's just 2193 02:05:02,640 --> 02:05:06,390 something weird here. And I think that there's a discounting 2194 02:05:06,420 --> 02:05:12,660 of those types of things for substituting the the advocating 2195 02:05:12,660 --> 02:05:16,350 that this is all real. And that going back to the the fictional 2196 02:05:16,350 --> 02:05:19,890 script idea was, again, not not trying to say like, Look, this 2197 02:05:19,890 --> 02:05:23,790 is definitely a script. But rather, there's the same, in my 2198 02:05:23,790 --> 02:05:26,790 opinion, and I know you'll disagree, but in my opinion, the 2199 02:05:26,790 --> 02:05:33,090 same amount of evidence, per se, with a very comparable amount of 2200 02:05:33,090 --> 02:05:36,570 speculation and gap filling, to either say this is a 2201 02:05:36,570 --> 02:05:41,220 fictionalized account, or that it's real. And I think that 2202 02:05:41,220 --> 02:05:44,040 that's what we're missing in this entire conversation. And I 2203 02:05:44,040 --> 02:05:47,280 appreciate you showing up here to have this conversation. So 2204 02:05:47,280 --> 02:05:50,250 I'm not directing this at you. But a lot of people will 2205 02:05:50,250 --> 02:05:54,930 discount any other theory, simply because they believe that 2206 02:05:54,930 --> 02:05:58,170 it's real. And you've acknowledged that a lot of it 2207 02:05:58,200 --> 02:06:01,920 falls back on off the record, and anonymously sourced 2208 02:06:01,950 --> 02:06:05,820 statements. And that, to me, makes this an incredibly 2209 02:06:05,850 --> 02:06:08,760 difficult situation to buy into. 2210 02:06:10,920 --> 02:06:16,080 Jay: So let me ask, let me ask you, if Eric Davis didn't write 2211 02:06:16,080 --> 02:06:20,520 these notes, and let's just say for the sake of argument, Steven 2212 02:06:20,520 --> 02:06:24,840 Greer wrote these notes, and and has circulated them under false 2213 02:06:24,840 --> 02:06:29,790 pretenses. Why is Eric Davis not said that this is just a bunch 2214 02:06:29,790 --> 02:06:30,750 of BS? 2215 02:06:31,590 --> 02:06:34,170 John Greenewald: You? That's a great question. And I don't 2216 02:06:34,170 --> 02:06:38,640 know. But I do fall back on what you lead off with, with his with 2217 02:06:38,640 --> 02:06:42,390 the ego. And and I agree with you, and does he want that 2218 02:06:42,390 --> 02:06:45,750 attention? Does he care if his name is involved in a 2219 02:06:45,750 --> 02:06:49,860 fictionalized whatever, because look, there is an army of people 2220 02:06:50,250 --> 02:06:55,290 that support these documents that that feel that they are 2221 02:06:55,350 --> 02:07:00,270 real, and that the main character of the story, the two 2222 02:07:00,270 --> 02:07:04,260 main characters includes Dr. Eric Davis. So I would 2223 02:07:04,260 --> 02:07:07,830 absolutely put up the argument that based on what we see 2224 02:07:07,830 --> 02:07:11,910 publicly from him from that egotistical standpoint, that he 2225 02:07:11,910 --> 02:07:15,870 would want that he wants that Mystique. And, and in that group 2226 02:07:15,870 --> 02:07:18,930 of people, I know I said it probably an hour and a half ago. 2227 02:07:19,350 --> 02:07:22,200 But I'll repeat it here is that that group of people I think, 2228 02:07:22,500 --> 02:07:27,540 likes the mystique. I think they like the aura around them of 2229 02:07:27,540 --> 02:07:33,810 mystery, and intrigue, and that they are more in the know, than 2230 02:07:33,810 --> 02:07:37,980 all of us. And one thing I'll say about Dr. Hal put off who 2231 02:07:37,980 --> 02:07:42,390 I've spoken with, directly, and I give him credit, because he's 2232 02:07:42,390 --> 02:07:44,580 one of the very few that writes me back. And I know he's not a 2233 02:07:44,580 --> 02:07:49,020 fan of mine. But he will absolutely respond for the most 2234 02:07:49,020 --> 02:07:52,200 part when I reach out to him and I and I give him credit for 2235 02:07:52,200 --> 02:07:56,970 that. But if the rumors are true that he believes in this mj 12 2236 02:07:56,970 --> 02:07:59,730 particular document, I don't want to spiral off into that. 2237 02:08:00,060 --> 02:08:03,390 But my whole point is, is that if that really if that rumor is 2238 02:08:03,390 --> 02:08:05,610 true, because I couldn't get him to confirm that that was the 2239 02:08:05,610 --> 02:08:10,770 document. If that is true, then there's a another layer here of 2240 02:08:10,770 --> 02:08:15,000 an issue, that if he's privately telling people that that mj 12 2241 02:08:15,000 --> 02:08:18,450 document is real, I believe definitively that that is a 2242 02:08:18,450 --> 02:08:22,200 hoax. And this is the SN ie the National Intelligence estimate 2243 02:08:22,200 --> 02:08:26,490 document. Again, I don't want to spiral off into that. But my 2244 02:08:26,490 --> 02:08:30,420 whole point is, is if all of that is true, he may want that. 2245 02:08:30,780 --> 02:08:35,010 That Mystique as well that he knows certain things about UFO 2246 02:08:35,010 --> 02:08:39,090 crash retrievals and alien bodies that nobody else knows. 2247 02:08:39,480 --> 02:08:45,540 Jay: So would you would you say then that either Eric or how 2248 02:08:45,570 --> 02:08:49,050 lied to Edgar Mitchell? Why was that? Why was a conventional 2249 02:08:49,050 --> 02:08:52,260 talking about an associate of his interviewing an admiral in 2250 02:08:52,260 --> 02:08:55,170 Las Vegas, or the fact that the admiral was denied and got a 2251 02:08:55,170 --> 02:08:58,260 reports later than the calls that confirmed it. I mean, you 2252 02:08:58,260 --> 02:09:01,260 know, he was obviously very convinced that this was real. So 2253 02:09:01,260 --> 02:09:05,070 someone lied to work eventually, just in your theory of Sure, was 2254 02:09:05,070 --> 02:09:08,790 the way it went down. And Eric Davis was actually aware that 2255 02:09:08,790 --> 02:09:12,870 this was fake, but wanted to boost his own ego. He, he he 2256 02:09:12,870 --> 02:09:17,730 risks he risked the credibility of the knids infrastructure and 2257 02:09:17,760 --> 02:09:21,600 potential, you know, reputations with people that were his very 2258 02:09:21,600 --> 02:09:24,900 close colleagues, by lying to them and allowing them to talk 2259 02:09:24,900 --> 02:09:27,420 about something like this on on live television. 2260 02:09:27,930 --> 02:09:30,600 John Greenewald: So that goes back to the Discovery Channel. I 2261 02:09:30,600 --> 02:09:32,820 think you said discovery quote, right, that we talked about, 2262 02:09:32,820 --> 02:09:33,810 because I wrote it down. And it 2263 02:09:33,900 --> 02:09:36,720 Jay: was actually a different quote, I have actually got links 2264 02:09:36,720 --> 02:09:39,600 for these quotes in an email. So I'm happy to send them to you. 2265 02:09:39,660 --> 02:09:40,980 You can put them in the description. I 2266 02:09:40,980 --> 02:09:43,440 John Greenewald: will put them all in so everybody knows what 2267 02:09:43,440 --> 02:09:46,680 we're talking about today. To answer your question, though, 2268 02:09:46,680 --> 02:09:49,500 what was Edgar Mitchell lied to? I mean, that's a powerful 2269 02:09:49,500 --> 02:09:52,710 accusation to make and I don't want to sit here and say that 2270 02:09:52,710 --> 02:09:57,390 they sat there and totally misled Dr. Edgar Mitchell, but 2271 02:09:57,390 --> 02:10:02,040 what I would be open to is that these Notes somehow, because 2272 02:10:02,040 --> 02:10:05,010 again, that context is missing, which is why one of my first 2273 02:10:05,010 --> 02:10:08,400 questions to you is what was the context of why these notes were 2274 02:10:08,400 --> 02:10:12,750 in, you know, his possession? That the context that plays a 2275 02:10:12,750 --> 02:10:16,020 huge role in how to answer your question, and I can't, because 2276 02:10:16,020 --> 02:10:20,160 nobody can answer that question for me on why he had that. He 2277 02:10:20,160 --> 02:10:24,630 was with knids. I'm talking about the okay. But But again, I 2278 02:10:24,630 --> 02:10:28,980 mean, I think and this is challenging my memory, because 2279 02:10:28,980 --> 02:10:32,250 it was a couple hours ago now. But I had asked about the actual 2280 02:10:32,250 --> 02:10:38,820 context of what the like you said it and correct me if I'm 2281 02:10:38,820 --> 02:10:42,390 wrong, that nobody can say that either. Davis handed these to 2282 02:10:42,390 --> 02:10:46,080 Edgar Mitchell and said, I sat down in a car with Thomas 2283 02:10:46,080 --> 02:10:46,440 Wilson. 2284 02:10:47,039 --> 02:10:50,759 Jay: No, but like the fact that Edgar Mitchell talks about it 2285 02:10:50,759 --> 02:10:53,789 with such confidence, at least hinting towards the short 2286 02:10:53,969 --> 02:10:56,969 version, that seems to be this issue, the fact that he talks 2287 02:10:56,969 --> 02:10:59,309 about it with such confidence, and he has this background in 2288 02:10:59,309 --> 02:11:02,579 the needs advisory board connected to Edgar Mitchell and 2289 02:11:04,199 --> 02:11:07,169 you know, will not a conventional Eric Davis help us 2290 02:11:07,169 --> 02:11:12,179 off? Well, Miller. I think that that is a pretty good reason why 2291 02:11:12,179 --> 02:11:15,509 he would be in have access to this kind of information that 2292 02:11:15,509 --> 02:11:18,449 would be circulated through knids. And I think it was, let 2293 02:11:18,449 --> 02:11:22,379 me just make sure I've got my my facts, right, but commander 2294 02:11:22,379 --> 02:11:28,589 Miller told, yeah, Commander commander Miller told Steven 2295 02:11:28,589 --> 02:11:32,669 Greer and I believe he also told Edgar Mitchell about the 2296 02:11:32,699 --> 02:11:37,199 Admiral's phone calls and then in the notes, because, again, 2297 02:11:37,199 --> 02:11:39,929 we're having to use the notes, but we're referring back to a 2298 02:11:39,929 --> 02:11:42,149 real interview that took place, which is the Larry King 2299 02:11:42,149 --> 02:11:46,169 interview, where he says they had calls in a report. And if 2300 02:11:46,169 --> 02:11:48,029 you're if you're kind of comparing that with what's said 2301 02:11:48,029 --> 02:11:51,509 in the notes, Eric Davis confirms that it was Edgar 2302 02:11:51,509 --> 02:11:55,949 Mitchell that told him about the phone calls from Mila, you know, 2303 02:11:55,949 --> 02:11:59,519 this whole kind of phone call trajectory. So there's there's 2304 02:11:59,519 --> 02:12:02,729 things outside of the documents that seem to confirm what's 2305 02:12:02,729 --> 02:12:05,999 written in the documents about the way in which this kind of 2306 02:12:05,999 --> 02:12:10,079 traveled down the grapevine of this group, and again, if it was 2307 02:12:10,079 --> 02:12:13,319 going to be circulated through knids, because Eric Davis, and 2308 02:12:13,319 --> 02:12:17,099 how put off were prominent members, and the guy that was on 2309 02:12:17,099 --> 02:12:20,969 the advisory board, who also did the initial briefing for Admiral 2310 02:12:20,969 --> 02:12:23,909 Wilson, Edgar Mitchell, of course, he's going to be tied 2311 02:12:23,909 --> 02:12:27,029 into that. And given the documents, they came that they 2312 02:12:27,029 --> 02:12:30,749 came from his estate, they came from his estate in a cache of 2313 02:12:30,779 --> 02:12:36,749 files all to do about the UFO issue. So I think the it's very, 2314 02:12:37,349 --> 02:12:40,259 it's it's, again, I know, I know, we're having to kind of 2315 02:12:40,259 --> 02:12:42,689 move into speculation, but I feel like it's kind of like 2316 02:12:42,689 --> 02:12:46,499 informed speculation where you've got a good idea as to why 2317 02:12:46,529 --> 02:12:49,079 a man like Edgar Mitchell would have these documents in his 2318 02:12:49,079 --> 02:12:52,169 possession. He was moving in the same circles as the people that 2319 02:12:52,169 --> 02:12:56,249 supposedly got this information into their group. And he was 2320 02:12:56,249 --> 02:13:00,299 also the guy alongside Greer and Miller, who was at the initial 2321 02:13:00,299 --> 02:13:03,479 briefing of the Pentagon. So he's in a perfect position to be 2322 02:13:03,479 --> 02:13:05,519 let you know read in on that, by Sure. 2323 02:13:06,540 --> 02:13:09,030 John Greenewald: So this this next question, and you may 2324 02:13:09,030 --> 02:13:12,420 believe this aspect to the story or discounted I've never seen a 2325 02:13:12,420 --> 02:13:15,810 disc discounted or discredited. And I don't mean this, this 2326 02:13:15,810 --> 02:13:19,140 question to be disrespectful to the late Dr. Edgar Mitchell. But 2327 02:13:19,140 --> 02:13:23,520 I do have to ask because he has talked with assertion about 2328 02:13:23,520 --> 02:13:29,130 other things, specifically, being remote healed by a healer, 2329 02:13:29,460 --> 02:13:34,350 in Canada of kidney cancer. Do you believe that to be true? 2330 02:13:35,280 --> 02:13:35,730 JOHN, 2331 02:13:35,760 --> 02:13:39,210 Jay: I went into my back garden got into a calm state of mind. 2332 02:13:39,630 --> 02:13:43,440 meditative state of mind very coherently planned my thought 2333 02:13:43,440 --> 02:13:47,850 process of what I wanted to happen and be exposed to and had 2334 02:13:47,850 --> 02:13:51,180 orange orbs of light flow over the house that I'm currently 2335 02:13:51,180 --> 02:13:55,230 living in. And people can call bs on that as much as they want, 2336 02:13:55,230 --> 02:13:57,690 I really don't care, because that happened to me. And that's 2337 02:13:57,690 --> 02:14:01,560 one of the most important reasons why I'm still invested 2338 02:14:01,560 --> 02:14:04,740 in this subject because of the actionability of consciousness 2339 02:14:04,860 --> 02:14:08,400 in a non local format, the exchange of quantum information 2340 02:14:08,550 --> 02:14:12,330 between separate systems in space and time via the medium of 2341 02:14:12,330 --> 02:14:16,590 consciousness. And I think that, absolutely, I am willing to 2342 02:14:16,590 --> 02:14:19,740 believe or trust in the fact that he had these kinds of 2343 02:14:19,740 --> 02:14:22,650 experiences because I'm not yet willing to discount the 2344 02:14:22,650 --> 02:14:26,670 actionability of consciousness in and its way to interact with 2345 02:14:26,670 --> 02:14:29,730 other bodies. And there are people who have, you know, who 2346 02:14:29,730 --> 02:14:33,390 claimed to be able to speak with spirits or to be able to do 2347 02:14:33,390 --> 02:14:37,170 this, that and the other. The the entire fear field is filled 2348 02:14:37,170 --> 02:14:40,290 with charlatans, and then there's real people, you know, 2349 02:14:40,320 --> 02:14:43,230 there are real people. I mean, you know, a little example of 2350 02:14:43,230 --> 02:14:46,980 this is my mother went to a medium once and, you know, the 2351 02:14:46,980 --> 02:14:49,410 information that was given to her and this, you know, what, 2352 02:14:49,410 --> 02:14:53,850 I'll always trust a medium that lives on just a random estate, 2353 02:14:53,880 --> 02:14:57,420 like in a rundown house who's not on a TV show, who just lets 2354 02:14:57,420 --> 02:14:59,970 people come for free and do a reading. That's the kind of meat 2355 02:15:00,000 --> 02:15:03,420 I'm on trust. And and she she managed to produce some 2356 02:15:03,480 --> 02:15:06,570 fascinating results about my mom's personal life that just 2357 02:15:06,570 --> 02:15:09,960 blew her away. So I think that when we're talking about like, 2358 02:15:10,170 --> 02:15:12,630 should we consider Edgar Mitchell credible? Because he 2359 02:15:12,630 --> 02:15:14,460 believes in these kinds of things? Yeah, I think that 2360 02:15:14,460 --> 02:15:17,250 absolutely, because this is an unknown physics that is still 2361 02:15:17,250 --> 02:15:19,770 being addressed. In fact, it was, you know, addressed in the 2362 02:15:19,770 --> 02:15:23,790 a tip, slide nine, you know, comments about how these things 2363 02:15:23,790 --> 02:15:26,460 seem to be able to affect cognitive human interface and 2364 02:15:26,460 --> 02:15:29,880 all sorts of strange ideas around consciousness. And, and 2365 02:15:29,880 --> 02:15:33,000 what was once called the phenomenon or what was once 2366 02:15:33,000 --> 02:15:36,870 paranormal is now quantum physics. And so I think that 2367 02:15:36,900 --> 02:15:39,600 yeah, that doesn't, that doesn't strike me as a particularly big 2368 02:15:39,600 --> 02:15:42,210 red flag, just because from my own perspective, and I'm sure 2369 02:15:42,210 --> 02:15:46,890 you have some, you know, very intelligent, but materially, you 2370 02:15:46,890 --> 02:15:50,010 know, aligned individuals within your demographic who would say, 2371 02:15:50,010 --> 02:15:52,920 No, this is just woowoo silliness. But I have to draw 2372 02:15:52,920 --> 02:15:57,120 back on my own subjective, hopefully, subjective evidence, 2373 02:15:57,120 --> 02:15:59,820 that's my own personal evidence that there is something about 2374 02:15:59,820 --> 02:16:03,270 the perturbing of the mind the perturbing of consciousness. And 2375 02:16:03,300 --> 02:16:06,480 and its potential to act in an in an expanded state that 2376 02:16:06,480 --> 02:16:09,660 doesn't just interact with this, you know, this, this human body? 2377 02:16:09,660 --> 02:16:12,810 So, yeah, my perspective on that, because consciousness is 2378 02:16:12,810 --> 02:16:17,070 kind of my jam. Is that? Yeah, this is this is not necessarily 2379 02:16:17,070 --> 02:16:17,940 a red flag for me. 2380 02:16:18,450 --> 02:16:21,090 John Greenewald: Yeah. And I think, just to clarify the 2381 02:16:21,090 --> 02:16:24,360 question, because I grew up in a very, my mom was very 2382 02:16:24,360 --> 02:16:27,930 metaphysical growing up. And so I've been been around that kind 2383 02:16:27,930 --> 02:16:31,110 of stuff. That's a totally different show in itself. So I'm 2384 02:16:31,110 --> 02:16:34,860 not turned off by that idea. But I think the root of why I'm 2385 02:16:34,860 --> 02:16:40,980 asking it essentially leads into your question of, you know, was 2386 02:16:40,980 --> 02:16:44,190 he lied to? And that's the, that's the thing. We don't know 2387 02:16:44,190 --> 02:16:47,190 if they even had a conversation with them. We don't know, the 2388 02:16:47,190 --> 02:16:50,640 true and exact nature and to your admission, you have to kind 2389 02:16:50,640 --> 02:16:54,870 of fill in those gaps. And, you know, was he lied to? Or did he 2390 02:16:54,870 --> 02:16:59,880 just believe a little bit more easily than he should? The one 2391 02:16:59,880 --> 02:17:03,810 quote that I did write down that I want to see, you said that he 2392 02:17:03,810 --> 02:17:07,560 was he expanded on the story, the quotes that I had pulled to 2393 02:17:07,560 --> 02:17:11,040 read, and all the ones that I saw, stopped at a certain point. 2394 02:17:11,040 --> 02:17:14,160 So again, it was like the notes had all these other details, but 2395 02:17:14,160 --> 02:17:17,550 all of the interviews by Edgar Mitchell, you know, kind of 2396 02:17:17,550 --> 02:17:20,550 stopped there. But if you have something great, I'd love to see 2397 02:17:20,550 --> 02:17:23,880 it. But I think that that going back to the question you asked 2398 02:17:23,880 --> 02:17:26,820 me It's so hard to answer, because we have to speculate 2399 02:17:26,940 --> 02:17:31,110 that he was even told anything that we don't know the true 2400 02:17:31,650 --> 02:17:34,530 cost. And I know that we can assume certain things, but the 2401 02:17:34,530 --> 02:17:38,250 true context of why he had it, and did Dr. Davis give it to him 2402 02:17:38,250 --> 02:17:41,430 and say, Look, this is what I had. This is what I experienced. 2403 02:17:41,430 --> 02:17:45,000 This is what I saw this right. I heard. I don't know that. And 2404 02:17:45,000 --> 02:17:49,080 until somebody comes along, we can't really say for sure. 2405 02:17:49,230 --> 02:17:51,540 Jay: Well, I agree. I mean, you know, I mean, what would your 2406 02:17:51,540 --> 02:17:56,640 personal opinion be on why he said, We got a call a few weeks 2407 02:17:56,640 --> 02:17:59,880 later, and a report much later than that, that confirmed that 2408 02:17:59,880 --> 02:18:02,730 this indeed, like happened. I mean, what what, what do you 2409 02:18:02,730 --> 02:18:05,970 think he was referring to in regards to a report? Other than 2410 02:18:06,450 --> 02:18:06,840 that, what 2411 02:18:06,840 --> 02:18:09,090 John Greenewald: I what I could get? That's a great question, 2412 02:18:09,120 --> 02:18:14,850 what I could take away and kind of believe from that, is that 2413 02:18:14,850 --> 02:18:17,940 Admiral Wilson stepped on something that maybe was not for 2414 02:18:17,940 --> 02:18:22,140 whatever reason, in his need to know and that he was denied, I 2415 02:18:22,140 --> 02:18:25,470 could buy that. It would, I would still put up an argument, 2416 02:18:25,770 --> 02:18:33,780 but I could buy that much of it. But I kind of lost my train of 2417 02:18:33,780 --> 02:18:37,770 thought. What was the way you asked the question? Because I 2418 02:18:37,770 --> 02:18:38,160 started 2419 02:18:38,760 --> 02:18:41,970 Jay: just fine. I was just saying, in relation to Edgar 2420 02:18:41,970 --> 02:18:45,120 Mitchell on CNN saying that there was a call and then a 2421 02:18:45,510 --> 02:18:47,130 John Greenewald: call on the report, I'm sorry, I kind of 2422 02:18:47,130 --> 02:18:50,520 went off on a different way. So that that's the part that I 2423 02:18:50,520 --> 02:18:54,990 could, you know, hop on to. And so for him to get a call could 2424 02:18:54,990 --> 02:18:57,600 absolutely be supported where Thomas Wilson says, Look, man, 2425 02:18:57,600 --> 02:19:01,770 I, I got into some we'll call it Department of Energy, you know, 2426 02:19:01,770 --> 02:19:04,830 type program, I'm just saying that because that I could buy 2427 02:19:05,070 --> 02:19:07,740 that he tried to access something that was a little bit 2428 02:19:07,740 --> 02:19:11,910 out of his need to know being a j two with the D o t. But you 2429 02:19:11,910 --> 02:19:15,270 know, over there with DLP, which has a whole nother level of 2430 02:19:15,270 --> 02:19:20,040 secrecy. They go Look, I mean, this isn't a god, jurisdiction, 2431 02:19:20,040 --> 02:19:24,180 so to speak. So you're not allowed. I could buy that. And 2432 02:19:24,180 --> 02:19:28,230 so the phone call and the report, I didn't take him saying 2433 02:19:28,230 --> 02:19:32,640 report as a written report. Just like it was a report like yeah, 2434 02:19:32,640 --> 02:19:36,330 I called I got denied access. Let me get back to you. And then 2435 02:19:36,330 --> 02:19:39,960 he reported back and solidified. Yeah, I tried and I couldn't 2436 02:19:40,140 --> 02:19:40,890 enjoy again, that's 2437 02:19:42,090 --> 02:19:43,890 Jay: sorry, I just say the wording of it, because he said 2438 02:19:43,890 --> 02:19:46,920 like he said, we received phone calls, and then a report much 2439 02:19:46,920 --> 02:19:49,050 later than that. So it seems like there's a differential 2440 02:19:49,050 --> 02:19:51,480 between a phone call and what he's claiming to be a report. I 2441 02:19:51,480 --> 02:19:54,000 John Greenewald: mean, are you claiming that that's the notes? 2442 02:19:54,600 --> 02:19:57,600 Jay: I think it's probably likely that that's the notes. I 2443 02:19:57,600 --> 02:20:00,540 mean, I can't think of anything else. I mean, obviously This is 2444 02:20:00,540 --> 02:20:03,750 the only thing we have within the public sphere, these notes 2445 02:20:03,750 --> 02:20:07,920 to kind of go by but if I was going to if I had been exposed 2446 02:20:07,950 --> 02:20:12,060 to phone calls and then a report by Eric Davis like a transcript 2447 02:20:12,060 --> 02:20:15,270 by Eric Davis like this, I would probably consider that a report, 2448 02:20:15,660 --> 02:20:16,290 you know that 2449 02:20:16,290 --> 02:20:22,200 John Greenewald: more than a four year gap. So, so 1997 they 2450 02:20:22,200 --> 02:20:25,200 meet in the Pentagon with Wilson Greer, will Miller and so on. 2451 02:20:25,410 --> 02:20:30,690 Right. He goes out, they they try and or he Wilson goes out, 2452 02:20:30,690 --> 02:20:36,390 he tries to gain access gets denied. If the report is that's 2453 02:20:37,440 --> 02:20:42,540 Yeah, 2002. So that's, that's a, that's a five year gap. That's 2454 02:20:42,540 --> 02:20:46,020 more than five years. So if it was, I think April of 97 is when 2455 02:20:46,020 --> 02:20:49,470 the rumor was I think April 9, or something somebody quoted was 2456 02:20:49,470 --> 02:20:52,890 quoted saying, I don't know, we'll just call it 1997. The 2457 02:20:52,890 --> 02:20:56,970 notes were not written until 2002. So you're talking about, 2458 02:20:56,970 --> 02:20:59,370 again, that five year gap, so 2459 02:20:59,880 --> 02:21:03,300 Jay: alright, know that I'll acknowledge that. That could be 2460 02:21:03,720 --> 02:21:09,300 pretend I'm trying to fit? Yeah. That's definitely Yeah, that's 2461 02:21:09,300 --> 02:21:13,590 definitely the right chronology, isn't it, that he made those 2462 02:21:13,590 --> 02:21:17,910 statements prior to the prior to the notes being made? 2463 02:21:18,300 --> 02:21:20,160 John Greenewald: Correct. I mean, assuming that the meeting 2464 02:21:20,160 --> 02:21:25,050 was, you know, 2002, as as written, and there's a four year 2465 02:21:25,050 --> 02:21:29,610 gap between Stephen Greer's retelling of the story, but that 2466 02:21:29,610 --> 02:21:34,500 also Ends with You know, he tried and and stopped access, 2467 02:21:34,500 --> 02:21:37,260 you know, he could couldn't get couldn't get access. 2468 02:21:37,650 --> 02:21:39,840 Jay: I think that then in that case, yeah, the report the 2469 02:21:39,840 --> 02:21:43,890 reports, it could be considered to be, you know, questionable, 2470 02:21:43,890 --> 02:21:46,770 since it seems like it might require time travel. But 2471 02:21:48,840 --> 02:21:50,040 John Greenewald: which could happen, hey, I'm, 2472 02:21:50,910 --> 02:21:54,360 Jay: well, I've heard things. But um, no, I think I think that 2473 02:21:54,390 --> 02:21:57,780 what he's still outlining in there, which, which, again, he 2474 02:21:57,780 --> 02:22:01,470 does outline the fact that there was a subsequent investigatory 2475 02:22:01,470 --> 02:22:05,190 journey from just this preliminary briefing in the 2476 02:22:05,190 --> 02:22:09,480 Pentagon. So yeah, I'll concede that point on the report most 2477 02:22:09,480 --> 02:22:12,540 likely not being represented of the of the notes, because it 2478 02:22:12,540 --> 02:22:17,280 seems to be in contradiction with the timelines. But he does 2479 02:22:17,400 --> 02:22:20,460 in that interview in that statement, describe the 2480 02:22:20,460 --> 02:22:23,550 situation that seems to be indicative of the admiral Wilson 2481 02:22:23,550 --> 02:22:27,240 leaks in terms of this denial of access. And I do have to go back 2482 02:22:27,240 --> 02:22:30,720 onto that fact that the admiral Wilson himself has only ever 2483 02:22:30,720 --> 02:22:33,090 confirmed this briefing took place and denied everything 2484 02:22:33,090 --> 02:22:36,870 else. So it just seems strange to me that Edgar Mitchell words, 2485 02:22:36,900 --> 02:22:40,440 you know, basically say that this is not the case that there 2486 02:22:40,440 --> 02:22:44,040 was a continuation, there was an investigatory effort on behalf 2487 02:22:44,040 --> 02:22:47,130 of the Vice Admiral within the fellow within the defense 2488 02:22:47,130 --> 02:22:51,120 infrastructure. So yeah, no, good point. Good. I, like I 2489 02:22:51,120 --> 02:22:53,460 said, I'm happy to be fact checked. And I want to be able 2490 02:22:53,460 --> 02:22:55,800 to have an objective conversation about this. There's 2491 02:22:55,800 --> 02:23:00,540 no inherent bias on my side, or at least I try not to be. But I 2492 02:23:00,540 --> 02:23:03,870 still think that there's moments in that statement that still 2493 02:23:03,870 --> 02:23:07,530 seem to lean towards this being true that the incidents that 2494 02:23:07,530 --> 02:23:11,400 were described in the documents do seem to be representative of 2495 02:23:11,400 --> 02:23:15,120 this statement of, hey, this guy went on after our briefing and 2496 02:23:15,120 --> 02:23:17,820 started trying to find things turn over stones and you know, 2497 02:23:17,820 --> 02:23:20,220 was basically told to, to go away. 2498 02:23:21,690 --> 02:23:25,950 John Greenewald: One last thing that I want to just kind of get 2499 02:23:25,950 --> 02:23:28,680 your comment on, and then I'll pass it to you, I want to make 2500 02:23:28,680 --> 02:23:31,170 sure you have every opportunity to say whatever closing words 2501 02:23:31,170 --> 02:23:33,420 you would like, I know it's getting late over there. So I 2502 02:23:33,420 --> 02:23:39,600 appreciate you sticking around. And it's the final, I think, 2503 02:23:39,600 --> 02:23:43,230 concern for me to get on board that any of this can be 2504 02:23:43,230 --> 02:23:45,840 legitimate. And it goes back to the security questions, which 2505 02:23:45,840 --> 02:23:48,450 we've already talked about a little bit. But I want to kind 2506 02:23:48,450 --> 02:23:52,530 of give a summary of what we have to accept when it comes to 2507 02:23:52,530 --> 02:23:57,210 breaking security oaths, by many of these individuals to accept 2508 02:23:57,210 --> 02:24:00,900 that this is true. And this is where I want your reaction. We 2509 02:24:00,900 --> 02:24:03,750 talked a little bit about Thomas Wilson himself being that J. 2510 02:24:03,750 --> 02:24:07,410 Two, that he goes, he violates his oath, you know, with Dr. 2511 02:24:07,410 --> 02:24:09,930 Eric Davis, you responded to that, but I at least want to 2512 02:24:09,930 --> 02:24:14,040 give that that bullet point again. Greer also reinforces the 2513 02:24:14,040 --> 02:24:19,320 violation of that oath, per his speeches, and a written book. So 2514 02:24:19,320 --> 02:24:23,550 in essence, he's because we're on the same page that the idea 2515 02:24:23,850 --> 02:24:26,970 of these programs existing should they exist, would be 2516 02:24:26,970 --> 02:24:30,840 classified in nature. So all of this is being published by major 2517 02:24:30,870 --> 02:24:35,040 publishing houses, including being said in public classified 2518 02:24:35,040 --> 02:24:38,880 information. nobody's doing anything about it. Per the 2519 02:24:38,880 --> 02:24:41,940 notes, we didn't talk about this part, but Thomas Wilson's aide 2520 02:24:42,300 --> 02:24:49,230 had told Miller that mj 12 exists or an mj 12 like group, 2521 02:24:49,710 --> 02:24:52,770 that in itself again, it sounds like we're in agreement would be 2522 02:24:52,800 --> 02:24:57,360 essentially a classified in nature idea. And the aid says 2523 02:24:57,360 --> 02:25:00,000 oh, we were denied access, but they're confirming it to will 2524 02:25:00,000 --> 02:25:03,510 Miller, who is not cleared, it doesn't matter if he has an 2525 02:25:03,510 --> 02:25:05,880 active clearance or not, he likely doesn't have a need to 2526 02:25:05,880 --> 02:25:10,680 know about an mj 12. Like group. Same deal with, you know, Eric 2527 02:25:10,680 --> 02:25:14,370 Davis No need to know we talked about that. And lastly, Steven 2528 02:25:14,370 --> 02:25:18,210 Greer with his NRO list. And I'm hoping you can send me that 2529 02:25:18,210 --> 02:25:22,950 document because I'm sure it's out there. The the program, the 2530 02:25:22,950 --> 02:25:26,820 NRO document that he talks about, I tried to find that and 2531 02:25:26,820 --> 02:25:30,390 prep for this show. And it's, it's on his website, 2532 02:25:30,420 --> 02:25:33,600 that I must have missed it. So if you could send that to me, 2533 02:25:33,600 --> 02:25:38,700 but regardless, according to him from what I was reading in his 2534 02:25:38,700 --> 02:25:41,520 book, and everything, they were secret code words, right. 2535 02:25:41,850 --> 02:25:47,520 Alright. So this was a leaked document, correct? Yeah. Okay. 2536 02:25:47,790 --> 02:25:53,010 So a leaked classified document is flashed to the J two. And 2537 02:25:53,430 --> 02:25:58,830 they confirm that its real, which in essence, would be a 2538 02:25:58,830 --> 02:26:01,230 breach of classified information. Now, all of a 2539 02:26:01,230 --> 02:26:04,830 sudden, you have all of these, you know, secret code words and 2540 02:26:04,830 --> 02:26:09,030 consumer code words and project names out there in the cosmos. 2541 02:26:09,030 --> 02:26:11,970 Now, I want to give one example, and I want to throw it to you of 2542 02:26:11,970 --> 02:26:14,940 why none of that, to me is plausible. And this is in the 2543 02:26:14,940 --> 02:26:20,340 public realm, anybody can verify this, a researcher by the name 2544 02:26:20,340 --> 02:26:24,810 of Lee Graham, very nice guy, very smart has been at this for 2545 02:26:24,810 --> 02:26:28,980 years. He's got to be in his 80s, maybe 90s. Now, but I met 2546 02:26:28,980 --> 02:26:34,320 him about 25 years ago. And he had a, at least a secret 2547 02:26:34,320 --> 02:26:38,160 clearance, maybe top secret through Aero jet. And he was 2548 02:26:38,160 --> 02:26:43,440 inadvertently given the code names, senior trend, which was 2549 02:26:43,440 --> 02:26:47,580 the classified at the time program name for the F 117 2550 02:26:47,580 --> 02:26:50,880 stealth fighter. Now, why I'm bringing this up is he didn't 2551 02:26:50,880 --> 02:26:55,500 have a need to know. But he he was inadvertently told that code 2552 02:26:55,500 --> 02:26:59,430 name highly classified program. What happened next was a 2553 02:26:59,430 --> 02:27:03,660 nightmare for him huge investigation, he was forced to 2554 02:27:03,660 --> 02:27:07,530 sign a classified document that said he would never talk about 2555 02:27:07,530 --> 02:27:11,220 it, that it was all a mistake, and that he in essence, would 2556 02:27:11,220 --> 02:27:14,550 have to forget about it. And it was then later declassified in 2557 02:27:14,550 --> 02:27:18,570 1990. So he was able to talk about it. What's my point? All 2558 02:27:18,570 --> 02:27:24,930 of these issues that I have with this, in my opinion, is 2559 02:27:24,930 --> 02:27:29,130 dismissible by verifiable fact and Lee Graham again being that 2560 02:27:29,130 --> 02:27:32,610 public story that anybody can verify. And I'll put the 2561 02:27:32,610 --> 02:27:36,870 document in the show notes as well. It's the the affidavit he 2562 02:27:36,870 --> 02:27:42,090 had to sign. You know, what hits the fan when classified 2563 02:27:42,090 --> 02:27:47,730 information gets out. Even with those that have a security 2564 02:27:47,730 --> 02:27:52,020 clearance. When they hear information like this, it hits 2565 02:27:52,020 --> 02:27:56,970 the fan, Lee Graham is a verifiable example. So that's my 2566 02:27:56,970 --> 02:28:02,940 schpeel. In that all of that has to be accepted as true. And all 2567 02:28:02,940 --> 02:28:08,190 of that has to be the Accept the rare exception to the rule that 2568 02:28:08,190 --> 02:28:11,280 I haven't seen anybody come back and say, Hey, Well, look, it 2569 02:28:11,280 --> 02:28:13,650 happened with this, or it happened with that, or it 2570 02:28:13,650 --> 02:28:17,310 happened with this. What is your reaction to that? And can you 2571 02:28:17,310 --> 02:28:21,060 cite any high level security breach like this, where the 2572 02:28:21,060 --> 02:28:24,840 people that heard classified information, just got away with 2573 02:28:24,840 --> 02:28:25,020 it? 2574 02:28:26,640 --> 02:28:29,490 Jay: So you brought up a brilliant point. And, you know, 2575 02:28:29,490 --> 02:28:33,810 I don't I don't personally know enough about the intricacies of, 2576 02:28:33,990 --> 02:28:37,380 you know, kind of like clearance, bureaucracy and 2577 02:28:37,380 --> 02:28:40,980 linguistics and how you can word things to know entirely why 2578 02:28:40,980 --> 02:28:45,180 these kind of situations might have gone through, you know, 2579 02:28:45,180 --> 02:28:49,200 this, this, this process and almost been basically allowed to 2580 02:28:49,200 --> 02:28:52,440 happen, because you bring up a really good point. But I think 2581 02:28:52,440 --> 02:28:56,010 that I did have a train of thought on this, because I was 2582 02:28:56,010 --> 02:28:57,120 thinking about it while you're talking. 2583 02:28:57,300 --> 02:29:00,690 John Greenewald: I'm keeping you up late. So I totally, it's 22 2584 02:29:00,690 --> 02:29:02,940 one in the morning right now. So I'm so sorry. 2585 02:29:03,150 --> 02:29:06,750 Jay: It's alright, don't worry. And this is kind of like a very 2586 02:29:06,780 --> 02:29:09,090 intensive question that I'm trying to wrap my head around, 2587 02:29:09,090 --> 02:29:12,180 because you're absolutely right to bring it up. I think that one 2588 02:29:12,180 --> 02:29:15,540 issue would be and this is just me reaching. But I think one 2589 02:29:15,540 --> 02:29:19,260 issue might be that this is about UFOs. And it's about 2590 02:29:19,260 --> 02:29:23,730 reverse engineering. And it's about one of the biggest secrets 2591 02:29:23,760 --> 02:29:27,480 that could be potentially being kept. And so by bringing further 2592 02:29:27,480 --> 02:29:30,540 attention to it, they may actually make it worked for 2593 02:29:30,540 --> 02:29:32,790 themselves, because by that point, you're acknowledging it. 2594 02:29:32,790 --> 02:29:35,370 So if you're going to press show, because I mean, one of the 2595 02:29:35,370 --> 02:29:38,250 things, and obviously we can talk about the credibility of 2596 02:29:38,250 --> 02:29:40,260 Steven Greer, but one of the things that he made a point of 2597 02:29:40,260 --> 02:29:42,930 saying quite a few times over the years, is because these 2598 02:29:42,930 --> 02:29:46,590 things are operating in some sort of very murky level of, you 2599 02:29:46,590 --> 02:29:50,040 know, essentially a legal oversight, that they're not 2600 02:29:50,040 --> 02:29:52,890 actually bound by constitutional and you know, kind of 2601 02:29:52,890 --> 02:29:55,350 congressional governmental oversight procedures and 2602 02:29:55,350 --> 02:29:57,960 standardized legal procedures. So they're not actually 2603 02:29:57,990 --> 02:30:04,260 operating in the It legal zone that we know of, and that by by 2604 02:30:04,260 --> 02:30:07,170 virtue of that that kind of knowledge voids all of the 2605 02:30:07,170 --> 02:30:10,320 security clearance restrictions on this type of issue if it's 2606 02:30:10,320 --> 02:30:14,340 been managed in a way that's obfuscating legal oversight or 2607 02:30:14,340 --> 02:30:17,370 standardized oversight on a governmental level, so perhaps 2608 02:30:17,640 --> 02:30:20,850 there is actually a loophole with one of the most sensitive 2609 02:30:20,850 --> 02:30:24,240 issues in the portfolio of the United States government, where 2610 02:30:24,240 --> 02:30:28,380 it's so sensitive, that if you if you're actually going to talk 2611 02:30:28,380 --> 02:30:31,290 about it, it's best just to not say anything to these people or 2612 02:30:31,290 --> 02:30:34,170 let them just kind of fade away into the, into the madness of 2613 02:30:34,170 --> 02:30:37,800 the UFO community, which has been D stigmatize stigmatized 2614 02:30:37,800 --> 02:30:40,650 for so long, and kind of like, you know, put into the corner. 2615 02:30:40,980 --> 02:30:44,280 So obviously, I am speculating here on the on the fat because 2616 02:30:44,310 --> 02:30:46,620 yes, there are some pretty significant what you would 2617 02:30:46,620 --> 02:30:49,830 imagine to be breaches of classified information. I mean, 2618 02:30:49,860 --> 02:30:53,310 the notes themselves aren't classified, because it's it's a, 2619 02:30:53,520 --> 02:30:56,700 it's a document written privately outside of government. 2620 02:30:56,700 --> 02:30:59,550 So the actual document itself is not stamped with a 2621 02:30:59,550 --> 02:31:03,330 classification stamp. Obviously, the information is extremely 2622 02:31:03,330 --> 02:31:07,560 sensitive, and most likely does breach some level of national 2623 02:31:07,560 --> 02:31:12,660 security agreements between the parties. But I think that 2624 02:31:12,660 --> 02:31:17,430 perhaps it's not at the kind of level where they would actually 2625 02:31:17,430 --> 02:31:22,080 make a point of, you know, arresting or putting criminal 2626 02:31:22,080 --> 02:31:24,780 charges down on these people there, there really could be the 2627 02:31:24,780 --> 02:31:28,080 case that this is existing in such an obvious gated manner, 2628 02:31:28,410 --> 02:31:31,530 that it's just better to let people say something about this, 2629 02:31:31,710 --> 02:31:35,880 and ignore it, than to press charges and kind of solidify 2630 02:31:35,880 --> 02:31:39,630 legitimacy for the issue. So I mean, I think that that's one 2631 02:31:39,630 --> 02:31:43,890 potential reason. And like I said, I do like, I'm just a 26 2632 02:31:43,890 --> 02:31:46,380 year old guy from the UK with no background in government, and 2633 02:31:46,380 --> 02:31:48,900 I've picked up on all this stuff over the past couple of years, 2634 02:31:48,900 --> 02:31:52,410 and I'm trying my best to kind of formulate structures that are 2635 02:31:52,410 --> 02:31:55,020 based on something I've not been privy to in my life. And I'm 2636 02:31:55,020 --> 02:31:59,040 only just learning about now. So I'm quite happy to be shown to 2637 02:31:59,040 --> 02:32:01,740 have a lack of knowledge in certain areas. But I do fall 2638 02:32:01,740 --> 02:32:07,650 back on people, you know, like Ross Coulter to spend decades 2639 02:32:07,680 --> 02:32:11,130 going through defense journalism and networking with people with 2640 02:32:11,130 --> 02:32:14,910 security clearances. He's also a trained lawyer, he knows how to 2641 02:32:14,910 --> 02:32:17,760 handle things confidentially. And he's quite versed on the 2642 02:32:17,760 --> 02:32:21,240 intelligence community's you know, Frank Milburn, former 2643 02:32:21,240 --> 02:32:25,170 strategic analyst and British, you know, Special Forces, Bob 2644 02:32:25,170 --> 02:32:28,350 McGuire, the former founder of the human center of the national 2645 02:32:28,350 --> 02:32:31,380 security and technology studies at Virginia Tech, like there's a 2646 02:32:31,380 --> 02:32:35,790 few different people that seem to have a background in at least 2647 02:32:35,790 --> 02:32:39,060 knowing what the procedures would be like and what can and 2648 02:32:39,060 --> 02:32:41,880 can't be said, who are still quite happy to sit behind this 2649 02:32:41,880 --> 02:32:45,090 and say, there's enough here for me to feel that this is actually 2650 02:32:45,090 --> 02:32:48,090 a legitimate scenario, and I'm willing to put my weight behind 2651 02:32:48,090 --> 02:32:52,200 it to talk about it. So, you know, from from my very layman 2652 02:32:52,200 --> 02:32:55,110 perspective, I can only kind of grasp at straws as to the 2653 02:32:55,110 --> 02:32:59,130 reasons why something like this would be able to escape the kind 2654 02:32:59,130 --> 02:33:02,370 of klore of us bureaucracy and national, you know, national 2655 02:33:02,370 --> 02:33:09,390 security implications. I have to just fall back on the knowledge 2656 02:33:09,390 --> 02:33:13,140 that I know some of my colleagues have, and an imagine 2657 02:33:13,140 --> 02:33:16,020 that they're probably talking from a point of authority. So 2658 02:33:16,020 --> 02:33:17,880 just like you've had people speak to you, it seems like 2659 02:33:17,880 --> 02:33:20,670 there's differences of opinion, even within the intelligence 2660 02:33:20,670 --> 02:33:24,630 community, even even with people that manage the kind of networks 2661 02:33:24,630 --> 02:33:27,060 and structures that we're both talking about there, there seems 2662 02:33:27,060 --> 02:33:31,500 to be a difference of opinion. So this is why for me, this 2663 02:33:31,500 --> 02:33:35,010 whole situation falls back on the fact that it needs to be 2664 02:33:35,310 --> 02:33:38,580 talked about scrutinized, addressed, kind of kept in the 2665 02:33:38,580 --> 02:33:41,310 momentum of the UFO conversation, and maybe we'll 2666 02:33:41,310 --> 02:33:44,280 get further developments that can corroborate and confirm and, 2667 02:33:44,490 --> 02:33:48,210 and give us a good reason why something like this would escape 2668 02:33:48,210 --> 02:33:51,870 because you're absolutely right to bring up something like this. 2669 02:33:52,080 --> 02:33:55,530 these are these are the issues that needs to be understood and 2670 02:33:55,530 --> 02:33:58,650 addressed. How could something like this be talked about? And 2671 02:33:58,650 --> 02:34:01,710 these people are still roaming free? I think that's an 2672 02:34:01,710 --> 02:34:04,860 important question. I don't think I have the answer for it. 2673 02:34:05,910 --> 02:34:08,640 But I'd like I said, I do fall back on some of the people I 2674 02:34:08,640 --> 02:34:13,560 know that believe it's real. And and potentially, the fact that 2675 02:34:13,560 --> 02:34:17,010 this is actually so sensitive, that they'd rather just not even 2676 02:34:17,010 --> 02:34:19,260 acknowledge that these people are actually talking about a 2677 02:34:19,260 --> 02:34:22,320 real situation, and they will just fizzle out on its own, 2678 02:34:22,350 --> 02:34:24,780 which kind of has I mean, you know, outside of the UFO 2679 02:34:24,780 --> 02:34:27,180 community who know who knows about this, no one knows about 2680 02:34:27,180 --> 02:34:29,010 the admiral Wilson leaks, you know, I'd stop anyone in the 2681 02:34:29,010 --> 02:34:31,950 street and they would know about it. So it has been suppressed 2682 02:34:31,950 --> 02:34:35,550 very, very much. So in terms of, you know, if this if this issue 2683 02:34:35,550 --> 02:34:39,240 actually is real, I mean, that, you know, no pun intended, the 2684 02:34:39,240 --> 02:34:43,530 gravity behind this situation is intense if it's actually a real 2685 02:34:43,530 --> 02:34:47,010 situation. This should be across every world media platform. 2686 02:34:47,010 --> 02:34:50,760 There is, as we all know, in the UFO community with much 2687 02:34:50,760 --> 02:34:54,570 frustration that is not usually what occurs only until recently 2688 02:34:54,570 --> 02:34:57,690 have we seen a sudden address all of this issue in a modern 2689 02:34:57,690 --> 02:35:01,470 context. But when it comes Talking about stuff like this, 2690 02:35:01,470 --> 02:35:04,200 especially legacy programs. I think we've all seen that 2691 02:35:04,200 --> 02:35:08,250 there's no intention within this mainstream narrative. We've seen 2692 02:35:08,250 --> 02:35:11,340 adapt from 2017. There's no intention to open up the 2693 02:35:11,340 --> 02:35:13,740 discussion of programs that might exist from the US 2694 02:35:13,740 --> 02:35:16,110 government's perspective. You know, there's nothing in the UAP 2695 02:35:16,110 --> 02:35:21,150 report about investigating Special Access Programs. So I 2696 02:35:21,150 --> 02:35:23,520 think that this, you know, there is a potential reality for this 2697 02:35:23,520 --> 02:35:27,720 to exist in such a, an obfuscated level of government 2698 02:35:27,720 --> 02:35:31,140 that it's barely even legal. You know, I think Richard Dolan 2699 02:35:31,140 --> 02:35:33,930 calls it legal illegality, so it's like, you know, it's on 2700 02:35:33,930 --> 02:35:37,830 this. It's, it's so close to being absolutely unacceptable. 2701 02:35:37,980 --> 02:35:42,660 So and and before I finish this thought off, again, I withdraw 2702 02:35:42,660 --> 02:35:46,260 from other sources who have claimed these programs exist. 2703 02:35:46,560 --> 02:35:50,430 The Admiral Wilson documents, isn't the only document or isn't 2704 02:35:50,430 --> 02:35:54,000 the only situation, which seems to be inferring that there is 2705 02:35:54,000 --> 02:35:57,210 this kind of level of clandestine research and 2706 02:35:57,210 --> 02:36:00,000 development happening in the black. So it's not the only 2707 02:36:00,000 --> 02:36:02,610 situation is pointing towards that it just happens to be one 2708 02:36:02,610 --> 02:36:06,840 of the more detailed ones. So I think that I think that there 2709 02:36:06,840 --> 02:36:09,840 are reasons to be skeptical about the documents, I wouldn't 2710 02:36:09,840 --> 02:36:12,960 say that there isn't, you've listed some very important 2711 02:36:12,960 --> 02:36:16,590 reasons to have some skepticism. But it's not enough skepticism, 2712 02:36:16,590 --> 02:36:20,070 in my opinion, to dilute the entire story down to nothing. 2713 02:36:20,070 --> 02:36:24,000 But you know, just a Fugazi. It's, it's, it's something 2714 02:36:24,000 --> 02:36:26,820 interesting, and and i think that it needs to be developed 2715 02:36:26,820 --> 02:36:31,590 upon over time. So yeah, I'm, I'm having to kind of like, word 2716 02:36:31,590 --> 02:36:34,440 my way through this, because I don't have a truly definitive 2717 02:36:34,440 --> 02:36:37,080 answer as to why they were able to get away with saying these 2718 02:36:37,080 --> 02:36:40,560 things and why they even thought of saying these things. But I 2719 02:36:40,590 --> 02:36:43,230 don't personally feel that it's just black and white, there 2720 02:36:43,230 --> 02:36:46,170 might be reasons why that was able to occur, you know, 2721 02:36:46,649 --> 02:36:49,979 John Greenewald: nothing, usually black and white. And 2722 02:36:49,979 --> 02:36:54,629 that was no, that was that was well said, and here's my 2723 02:36:54,629 --> 02:36:58,679 takeaway. And I want you to know this, I have a lot of respect 2724 02:36:58,679 --> 02:37:02,819 for people that will step into the vault like this, and know 2725 02:37:02,849 --> 02:37:07,379 that we don't see eye to eye with this, but sit here for two 2726 02:37:07,379 --> 02:37:12,119 and a half hours, and have a conversation. And walking away. 2727 02:37:13,589 --> 02:37:17,909 You know, my respect level for you? rose considerably, not that 2728 02:37:17,909 --> 02:37:22,499 I was disrespectful going into this, but rather, I want you to 2729 02:37:22,499 --> 02:37:26,489 know how much I appreciate that. And and that I hope that this 2730 02:37:26,489 --> 02:37:29,819 serves as a testament to those out there that maybe did go in 2731 02:37:29,819 --> 02:37:32,639 the weeds like both of us, you know, and I think I said it 2732 02:37:32,639 --> 02:37:36,089 privately. But if not, I'll say publicly that I apologize, you 2733 02:37:36,089 --> 02:37:41,129 know, for those social media battles a year or two ago, but 2734 02:37:41,159 --> 02:37:44,579 how we've risen above that can have a conversation like this, 2735 02:37:44,909 --> 02:37:48,809 that has to happen more often. So my hat's off to you for that. 2736 02:37:48,809 --> 02:37:52,829 And I hope you don't stop asking questions. I hope you continue 2737 02:37:52,829 --> 02:37:57,179 doing what you are doing, which I know you will. But there needs 2738 02:37:57,179 --> 02:38:00,959 to be more people like you out there that, again, the I don't 2739 02:38:00,989 --> 02:38:03,839 expect everyone to agree with me, but the fact that you 2740 02:38:03,839 --> 02:38:07,799 listened, and the fact that you took the questions and and gave 2741 02:38:07,799 --> 02:38:11,759 them out as well. My hat's off to you. So I really want to say 2742 02:38:11,759 --> 02:38:12,599 thank you for that 2743 02:38:12,840 --> 02:38:15,270 Jay: was really, really kind of you, john. And you know, I'd 2744 02:38:15,270 --> 02:38:18,720 like to just echo back the same sentiments because, you know, I 2745 02:38:18,750 --> 02:38:21,900 like I said before, I have a lot of respect for you with the work 2746 02:38:21,900 --> 02:38:26,010 of black volt. But we did have areas of contention on this. And 2747 02:38:26,490 --> 02:38:30,630 I you know, I did my fair share of silly little snide comments 2748 02:38:30,630 --> 02:38:34,590 and responses over Twitter. And I really, I'm really happy with 2749 02:38:34,590 --> 02:38:37,500 how this has turned out. I will admit, I'm not ashamed to admit 2750 02:38:37,530 --> 02:38:40,740 I was a little bit anxious about how this might go down between 2751 02:38:40,740 --> 02:38:42,930 you and me, because even though we did reach out where you 2752 02:38:42,930 --> 02:38:46,020 reached out to me and we both, you know, shook hands water 2753 02:38:46,020 --> 02:38:48,420 under the bridge, no problems given because I'm not a kind of, 2754 02:38:48,450 --> 02:38:50,640 I don't like to hold on to grudges, and no one likes to 2755 02:38:50,640 --> 02:38:54,540 hold on to grudges. So I was, you know, a little bit like, Oh, 2756 02:38:54,540 --> 02:38:57,480 I hope this goes well. But I'm really, really happy with this. 2757 02:38:57,480 --> 02:39:00,600 I feel like we've both looked at this from our perspectives. We 2758 02:39:00,600 --> 02:39:04,830 both agreed on certain points that seem to be you know, mixed 2759 02:39:04,830 --> 02:39:09,870 into, is it real? Is it not real? And yeah, I'm I'm really, 2760 02:39:09,870 --> 02:39:14,130 really happy with how this whole thing went down. And I just want 2761 02:39:14,130 --> 02:39:16,650 to thank you for giving me the opportunity to have this kind of 2762 02:39:16,650 --> 02:39:20,640 conversation. Because this this is exactly what we need in the 2763 02:39:20,640 --> 02:39:24,600 UFO community. There's, there's and I do think as I said to you 2764 02:39:24,600 --> 02:39:27,510 in the DMS A lot of it does come back to social media, social 2765 02:39:27,510 --> 02:39:31,560 media is a brilliant tool, but it's also a pretty devastating 2766 02:39:31,560 --> 02:39:38,160 weapon because it does create a much shorter fuse in our ability 2767 02:39:38,160 --> 02:39:41,730 to deal with people, especially if you're a content creator or a 2768 02:39:41,730 --> 02:39:45,210 researcher and you've got a lot of people commenting and, and 2769 02:39:45,210 --> 02:39:48,540 you can get quite dismissive quite quickly if you're finding 2770 02:39:48,540 --> 02:39:50,610 yourself disagreeing with a lot of people about different 2771 02:39:50,610 --> 02:39:54,690 things. So I think social media exasperates that level of the 2772 02:39:54,690 --> 02:39:58,290 human mind, the ego the reptilian aggressive fighting 2773 02:39:58,290 --> 02:40:01,950 mind and and that's Not always the true representation of a 2774 02:40:01,950 --> 02:40:05,580 person. And I have to admit, this is the first time we've had 2775 02:40:05,580 --> 02:40:09,120 a full dialogue between each other. And I have a much a much 2776 02:40:09,150 --> 02:40:12,270 grander and a much clearer assessment of you as an 2777 02:40:12,270 --> 02:40:15,300 individual than I did just having short, sharp comments 2778 02:40:15,300 --> 02:40:18,240 between each other on Twitter. So I think that that can be a 2779 02:40:18,240 --> 02:40:21,300 lesson for everyone listening, is try and remember that you 2780 02:40:21,300 --> 02:40:24,900 know, on Twitter on social media, people aren't always the 2781 02:40:24,900 --> 02:40:28,260 way that they normally are. And you don't always get to give the 2782 02:40:28,260 --> 02:40:31,950 most amount of detail the best perspective so try and take 2783 02:40:31,980 --> 02:40:34,770 those types of interactions with a pinch of salt and it's always 2784 02:40:34,770 --> 02:40:37,410 good to have this kind of thing because it proves that we're 2785 02:40:37,410 --> 02:40:42,960 able to have a calm, civil, you know, matures conversation 2786 02:40:43,050 --> 02:40:46,260 whilst still disagreeing with each other, while still moments 2787 02:40:46,260 --> 02:40:48,990 where we don't agree with each other. But being able to finish 2788 02:40:48,990 --> 02:40:51,300 it, which I think we're gonna have to do now. I was I might 2789 02:40:51,300 --> 02:40:52,350 actually pass out. 2790 02:40:52,590 --> 02:40:54,630 John Greenewald: Yeah, no, that was that was my that was my 2791 02:40:54,630 --> 02:40:57,420 closing remark to you. And I wanted to make sure you had the 2792 02:40:57,420 --> 02:41:00,390 last word you gave a brilliant response before, but I wanted to 2793 02:41:00,390 --> 02:41:02,640 make sure if there was anything else you wanted to add, you had 2794 02:41:02,640 --> 02:41:03,900 an opportunity to do so. 2795 02:41:04,200 --> 02:41:07,710 Jay: I'm just happy we did this. And I think it's been the best 2796 02:41:07,710 --> 02:41:11,490 possible result that we could have hoped for. You know, and I 2797 02:41:11,490 --> 02:41:13,920 hope you agree with the No, absolutely. It's 2798 02:41:13,920 --> 02:41:15,390 John Greenewald: a shame I didn't press record. So we'll 2799 02:41:15,390 --> 02:41:19,650 have to do it all over again. Now, that that that said, Get 2800 02:41:19,650 --> 02:41:23,100 some much needed sleep, thank you to everyone who tuned in, 2801 02:41:23,280 --> 02:41:26,970 please make sure that you that you give a thumbs up. Make sure 2802 02:41:26,970 --> 02:41:30,030 that you subscribe to the channel and also check out Jays 2803 02:41:30,210 --> 02:41:33,900 project unity also linked in the show notes, click on that, check 2804 02:41:33,900 --> 02:41:37,440 out his videos, get all the information that you can, 2805 02:41:37,620 --> 02:41:40,680 because he's got a lot on there about all sorts of topics, not 2806 02:41:40,680 --> 02:41:43,860 just the Wilson Davis stuff, but quite a bit. Jay, thank you. 2807 02:41:43,890 --> 02:41:46,380 Again, thank you all for listening and watching. This is 2808 02:41:46,380 --> 02:41:48,990 John Greenewald, Jr signing off, and we'll see you next time.