coming up on this edition of the black
vault radio I sit down with legendary
UFO researcher mr. Stanton T Friedman if
it had been ours I believe the word
would have been put out to keep the damn
mouth shut and everybody would have paid
attention believe me they people in
power want to stain
no ideas come to be accepted not because
your opponents come to believe in them
but because their opponents die and a
new generation a custom all that and
much more so stay tuned the black vault
radio is about to begin
more than 20 years ago I began a journey
my quest for the truth my name is John
Greenwald and I have hammered the United
States government with Freedom of
Information Act requests trying to get
answers I have more than two million
pages of declassified documents for you
to download at the black vault calm now
I attempt to dive even deeper and talk
to some of the most brilliant minds on
this planet no government secret is
off-limits and no question is off the
table all I aim for is the truth this is
the black vault radio
[Music]
welcome everybody to the premiere
episode of the black vault radio I am
your host John Greenwald jr. and I'm
gonna be honest with you it feels
awesome to be back on the air and
finally getting this project off of the
ground this radio show and I'm even
apprehensive of calling it that because
you'll hear in a moment um kind of not
doing it the traditional way but this
audio channel is a phrase I like a
little bit better than radio show or
podcast this audio channel is literally
decades in the making now for those of
you who have followed my my work and the
black vault for quite some time you'll
know my history and radio it started
with hosting a show with my friend the
late dr. Roger Leir dr. Leir really gave
me my first shot back when I was about
17 18 years old I think I was 18 and he
called me introduced himself and asked
me to speak for his local MUFON group
and in Ventura Santa Barbara here in
California and I was excited I had never
done that before I had been on an art
bell around that time but had never
lectured before and so I went out there
and had a great time met dr. Leir we hit
it off and as the years went on and our
friendship continued we ended up hosting
a show together called Millennium
mysteries and we had a lot of fun with
it together
I I missed that man that he did great
work he was obviously a pioneer when it
came to the abduction phenomena and
potential alien implants we we just had
an all-around great time and as my
career kind of continued in television
and so on I did a rendition of the black
vault radio which was broadcast for
quite some time and this is going to
differ from that there's going to be a
lot of differences between this and that
format for those of you who remember now
life got in the
way sadly I had to put that project on
hold I didn't plan on having it go for
years on hold but it did life kind of
got in the way and I had to put that on
the back burner but I'm really excited
to say that that hold today comes to an
end I had aimed to do this in the
beginning of 2018 in January that was
one of my new year's resolutions sadly I
ended up in the hospital and spent about
a week in for complications due to
pneumonia didn't really advertise it
that much but I had some pretty severe
complications spent some time in the
hospital and got to know the nursing
staff pretty well on my wife's Hospital
that she works at and wasn't a lot of
fun but still I'm still after all these
months healing they said we'll take over
six months but hey you know what there
is no time like now and I thought this
is it this is the time
I love being interviewed on different
radio shows but it's time to really come
back to making an audio channel that you
guys want and I've heard your
frustrations I've read it on comments
social networks Twitter I see what you
guys want and that's what I want to
really aim to bring to you with the
black vault radio now what is that well
you heard me to say just a couple
minutes ago that I did not want to call
this a radio show it is but I just I
kind of kind of leaned towards a very
traditional format whenever I hear that
term and let's face it there are 78
million options when it comes to podcast
and radio shows and I know because I've
experienced this myself
you guys will hear a good show good
interview good momentum and the mint and
it really starts to get good the music
comes on a commercial break comes about
and you got to wait five minutes for
everybody to come back start talking
again the problem with that when you're
having a conversation the momentum is
gone the break is there and it really
kind of breaks the momentum now I get it
commercials kind of a necessity in this
day and age but really in the middle of
an interview what I want to do is kind
of go straight through
and that's what you're gonna hear today
when I bring my friend and colleague on
mr. Stanton Friedman and that will be a
characteristic of this show moving
forward where those interviews take
place break free except when they last
more than an hour that's just a courtesy
to all of us
simply because well let's just face it
we need a break sometimes while we're
doing a long conversation and that's
kind of the idea I'm looking to profile
some independent artists figure out a
fun way but I'm not going to break it
and you know go to a commercial for
deodorant or anything like that in the
middle of an interview the show is also
going to have a couple other segments
and and that's really the format of this
and I wanted to take a minute or two
before we get really started with the
with the show talking about the format
of how this show is laid out now
obviously you heard the tease already
you heard some sound bites and sound
clips from Stanton Friedman but also
you're gonna have a couple different
segments before we get rolling here with
Stanton and the first and foremost every
week or every episode I should say
because there actually will be more than
one episode per week on some weeks not
all the time
but there will be where there's multiple
episodes that are dropped onto the black
Volcom that you can listen to but every
episode is going to have a new segment
and the tbv news segment is literally
just that where there are headlines I'm
not trying to be a new show or breaking
news or anything like that but rather
it's to keep tabs on the headlines that
I feel that you guys should be aware of
they pertain to the topics that I will
deal with here on the black vault radio
now just so you know - this is not going
to be just geared towards a UFO or
paranormal realm that is not what this
show is I'll deal with those topics but
rather I am NOT trying to be the next
UFO show or paranormal show rather the
black vault radio tackles pretty much
every government secret out there all of
those stories that you hear about from
historical aspects to the paranormal
aspects to top secret military aircraft
all sorts of different topics I dive
into
in essence I'm taking that 2 million
page archive that I have and I'm trying
to bring it to life because I know deep
down that those documents are not the
complete story
there's no humanity behind that there's
no voice behind those records and so my
idea is to bring some of the most
brilliant minds to use those documents
as a as a starting point and then expand
on them figure out what more to the
story is there with these brilliant
minds that I don't want to bring on to
the show so we're gonna start with those
headlines on the tbv news segment the
segment with our guests will be tbv
dialogues and that is going to be the
main brunt of the show that's gonna be
the main length of it that's where
you're gonna get the most talking back
and forth we aim for 1 hour interviews
but I'm giving the guests the option if
they don't have that much time
that's fine it'll be a little bit
shorter if they want to go longer even
better I will break it at the hour maybe
have some fun music or something like
that but the tbv dialogues we aim for at
least an hour if not two and hey if a
guest wants to hang out for even longer
I'm all for it so expect a longer show
in the future and lastly a segment
called tbv unredacted now what is this
every episode out of those 2 million
pages that I have I'm gonna be honest
with you and say that sometimes I forget
what the heck is in that archive and I
live it and breathe it and I've created
it so if I forget I'm thinking that
maybe the audience may miss a heck of a
lot in that archive reason is it's just
huge I never imagined that it would get
that big this fast I mean it granted
it's been over two decades but to have
millions of pages and and the effort to
try and organize that for me it's been
challenging it really has so what I want
to do with tbv unredacted is just take a
couple minutes every episode and profile
a random document sometimes it'll be a
document that pertains to the guest
that way it'll tie in and you can see
some of the
real information that's come out of the
government other times it will just be
literally just that random something new
something old something I got 20 years
ago and I totally forgot about I'm
looking for those random gems in my
archive to profile every episode for you
because I think that once I post it
maybe this is my fault and I shouldn't
do this but I just kind of don't feel
like I should just keep posting it over
and over meaning a document goes up on
Monday
I don't really post it again and that
might be a bad thing but I mean there's
so much new stuff that I put online
unless you guys want posts every eight
seconds it would be kind of impossible
to keep profiling this so that's the
point of that segment is I want to
really highlight those documents the
important ones that have a fascinating
story because I will say this too two
things actually number one it's not
always the content of the document that
is the interesting part
sometimes it's the lack thereof that is
the interesting part now what do I mean
by that sometimes it's the redacted
portions the blacked out stuff that
might frustrate you and think well why
is that important and a lot of times the
fact that they're blacking out material
tells part of the story and as the
episodes are posted as I start exploring
all of these documents you will
absolutely see what I mean and the one
this week this episode I think you will
really enjoy because it's not redacted
and it tells a fascinating fascinating
story and the fact that it's not
redacted
I believe plays a gigantic role into how
important this topic is but you're gonna
have to stay tuned to find out what
document that is also in the coming
episodes there's a document that will
profile not necessarily the content of
it but the fact if you can believe it
and I'm not exaggerating the fact is I
waited fourteen and a half years for
that document to arrive now think about
that think how long that is fourteen and
a half years after I filed the original
request for that record I finally got it
that is an insane amount of time we
really think about how frustrating that
is to wait 14
and a half years but that is exactly
what I had to do so all those documents
are coming up in the coming episodes of
tbv unredacted plus a heck of a lot more
so that being said thank you all for
tuning in we're going to get on with the
show very soon with Stanton Friedman but
before we do like I said it's time for
some headlines on TBB news
[Music]
up next in the tbv news segment i want
to speak just about a couple of things
before we get going here the shows
probably a little bit longer just simply
because of the longer introduction to
give you guys an idea about what the
show is all about and kind of give you
the rundown but as we move forward I'm
not gonna do that obviously every time
so it'll be a little bit shorter but
this time in the tbv news segment i want
to talk about a couple of things that
you may have missed now one of the
topics that's going to be coming up here
not only with my friend Stan Freeman
who's gonna be joining me in the next a
few minutes but also in the coming
episodes the topic of to the stars
Academy led by former rock star current
rock star whichever way you look at it
Tom DeLonge and his efforts to bring out
more UFO information he's done that
since last October with a big press
conference and he brought forward and I
give him a lot of credit for this
brought forward a man who headed a
project within the Pentagon
investigating UFOs an unidentified
aerial phenomena now I have been
skeptical about the scope of that and I
was very intrigued when it all went down
last October and then in December it
really broke in the media this is gonna
be something we talked about quite a bit
simply because it's going on now it's
all unfolding now and that leads me to
the first story here in the in the
headlines is just this week just I think
in the last 24 hours or so let me see if
I can get a date the to the stars
Academy posted on Instagram and Twitter
and and yes it was posted on July 2nd so
just this week to the stars Academy
posted a post posted a post I should
find a way to better way to say that
post did our science and this is a quote
our scientists are all smiles while
welcoming Lu Elizondo in his delivery to
their lab happy hashtag world UFO day
and linked over to the Instagram photo
now Lou Elizondo or Luis Elizondo is the
man who did head
that UFO project the photograph is dr.
Hal putt-off mr. Allison doe in the
middle and dr. Eric Davis on the right
now what did he deliver and the reason
is is because then the Instagram caption
of this dr. Hal putt-off and dr. Eric
Davis welcome Luis Elizondo to their
laboratory in Austin Texas
everyone's excitement is palpable as the
award-winning physicists prepare to
inspect his delivery happy hashtag world
UFO day now here's my criticism why
tease it right what is he delivering now
I get it
we want to get a little bit of intrigue
here and people talking and so on
but that really is the the biggest
criticism I have is that if you have
evidence right at least show it this is
a public benefit corporation and they
are asking for your money right that's
the whole point they want you to give
them your money to invest and be a
stockholder and yet here they are kind
of teasing you know what a piece of what
a specimen of what what was his delivery
that's the kind of stuff that really
frustrates me as an investigator because
if they are trying to do this for a
public benefit sadly they are not
benefiting the public by just simply
teasing all of this stuff so that being
said don't miss that photograph
definitely subscribe to to the stars
Academy I mean I'll give them the plug I
think you should follow them on Twitter
it is TTS Academy and then on Instagram
it's to the Stars Academy so follow them
both I mean randomly they send out this
stuff who knows what that sample is or
what will come of it of anything but
definitely don't miss that because that
is the first time that they have tweeted
in about a month it looks like so you
know they're not very active sending out
information and when they do you know
hey it's interesting so keep tabs on
that another headline worth mentioning
here in the last couple of weeks is
paranormal investigator Joshua P Warren
now recently I made an appearance in Las
Vegas
and was actually pretty honored to be
asked by George Noory and the producers
Tom Dan Heiser and and Laurie Wagner of
the event to appear at coast-to-coast am
live in Las Vegas I had a lot of fun
with that we had a great time on stage
but after the show I got to meet Joshua
Warren and he introduced himself at the
bar he and I chatted for quite a long
time a very interesting guy and had a
lot of fun just kind of hanging out and
and relaxing a bit and he told me about
some of the experiments that he was
doing now I didn't know that he would
kind of make a discovery around this
timeframe but then within days of that
event I see a Las Vegas news story with
Joshua Warren that he was using what's
called a DT meter and that stands for a
differential time rate meter now I'm not
all I'm not very privy to exactly what
this device does other than measure the
amount of time it takes for a signal to
get from this meter through a hundred
foot cable with a sensor on the end to
send the signal back now really what
this measures is just showing the amount
of time that it takes for this signal to
pass through it will stay constant with
this time where we are on earth now
according to Joshua Warren and this is a
quote that signal is always supposed to
travel at the same rate of time at any
particular place the only way that could
change is if a black hole approached
earth or something like that which is
never supposed to happen and yet then on
June 18th and 2018
Joshua Warren actually measured on this
device that time slowed down for 20
microseconds now this was in the desert
between the i-15 and Route 93 as just
north of Las Vegas now if you're
familiar with the area there's also kind
of another big thing in that general
vicinity and that would be area 51 so
it's interesting that he made this
discovery out there what does it mean
was it a machine malfunction well
according to him
he hasn't registered this at all at any
other time during any other experiment
now knowing Joshua Warren after talking
to him he's an interesting guy I mean he
knows his science and so in the coming
episodes I'm gonna invite Joshua on
explain that meter a little bit more but
if you're interested go to Fox 5 Vegas
dot-com I'll also link it in the show
notes but Fox 5 Vegas dot-com and search
for Joshua Warren you'll come up with
that story it's interesting hey look
there's a lot about science we don't
know about I can prove that all the time
with government documents they're proven
wrong all the time when scientists
working for the feds make a discovery
that they didn't know the day prior so
who knows maybe he stumbled on something
out there towards area 51 that really
shows that the laws of physics are being
altered and time really is slowing down
in one particular spot so definitely
check that out last headline I want to
talk about is a little bit closer to
home this one deals with the black vault
now you may not have heard about a new
project that I launched late last year
at the beginning of this year around
December - January of this year called
tbv investigations now I was getting a
ton and I mean that literally a ton of
UFO and paranormal related cases just
because of my appearances on television
on a worldwide scale on various
documentaries and shows and so on over
the years and I didn't know really what
to do with them so I started archiving
these cases these witness testimonials
and I realized that there were just too
many good cases that I just didn't have
time to investigate I mean I'm not a
field investigator I don't claim to be
one where I go out into the field and
take soil samples and so on and so forth
now obviously there's a couple
organizations that do that they trained
investigators researchers to go out
there and do it but I wanted to make a
different approach I'm not taking away
from anything from those other
organizations okay they do great work
they have great people involved I'm
friends with them I I'm in good standing
with them I am NOT trying to compete
with them so that's not what this
project is
about but rather I wanted to bring
together researchers on a global scale
and I built a complete infrastructure
with a case management system in the
background ways to communicate with the
witnesses ways for investigators to
communicate all in the background while
in the foreground people like you
curious minds even those that have
witnessed something can go on and see
every case that has been put in the
system and there are thousands already
that are into the system all put on a
global map now the reason I bring this
up is twofold for the headline number
one is for those who just want to look
and read that the case files do not miss
it because like I said there are
thousands of cases now there is almost
40 investigators in about eight
different countries involved in tbv
investigations that literally take on
cases manage the case themselves
investigate it try and find answers
sometimes they can sometimes they can't
but they're doing amazing work so I want
to make sure that you guys know about
that resource because I'll be profiling
a lot of these cases in the coming
episodes to get into that system log on
to www.hsn.com so it's definitely worth
a look
the other part of this though and I want
to mention before we move on if you're
interested in getting involved in UFO
research or paranormal related research
you know whether it be goats or
cryptozoology since I get all of those
reports the infrastructure I built it'd
be silly for me to turn them down
because investigators not not the entire
team
everybody has their niche and interest
but some of them want to take on those
cases and that also might be you so if
you're interested this is open to
anybody to write me let me know that you
want to investigate it's okay if you've
never done this before we're here to
help that's the whole point of this as
as we kind of move forward because it's
a fairly new project still I mean we're
I'm only about seven months in fairly
new project but we all help each other
and it's a very cool group of people
something I'm very very proud of so if
you want to apply as being an investment
to be an investigator and you want to
take part in this send me an email
pretty easy and straightforward contact
at the black vault comm that's the email
again contact cont a CT at the black
vault comm let me know about your
background let me know what you want to
do but we're definitely looking for more
investigators and more locations because
the case load the amount of cases that
are coming into the black vault is
increasing dramatically now we
definitely need your help if you're
interested and don't worry there's no
time commitment I don't demand that you
do 60 cases a day and work 90 hours a
week it's not about that it is designed
to be at your own pace and those are the
headlines coming up
mr. Stanton Friedman in this episode's
tbv dialogue segment
this week on the tbv dialogue segment
I'm very excited to welcome the man the
myth the legend but most of all my
friend mr. Stanton T Friedman now
Stanton gave his first lecture back in
1967 on the UFO topic he's a nuclear
physicist by trade but we will always
remember him as the original civilian
investigator of the Roswell incident but
his story after me knowing him for so
many years his story goes much much
deeper than that
Stanton welcome to the black vault radio
delighted to be here I am very excited
to have you on this show now I kind of
want to tell a quick story before we get
going and the reason the reason is is
because I love telling the story of how
we met and if you can believe it it is
over 21 years ago that you have a heart
yeah I know it is very very hard to
believe but over 21 years ago I was 15
years old
and I was fascinated by this topic and I
looked into everybody that was involved
in everything in every angle and so on
and I tried to write letters to
everybody out there all the big names of
ufology and as a fifteen-year-old kid
you know I wasn't sure who would write
back if anybody I will not name names of
who all I wrote but I will name you you
are the only one that wrote me back as a
15 year old kid and here we are more
than 21 years later you sent me I don't
know if you remember this you sent me a
package of material for me to read on
your own dime in your own time and you
sent that to me via snail mail I still
have all of it and that motivate
motivated me to do what I have done and
here I am more than 21 years later still
at it and honored to have you on this
show and it's a true testament to who
you are because we all know you're an
amazing researcher right I mean that
that's that's a given your your history
in this field is extensive but I wanted
to point that out for those who don't
know you personally because it really is
a testament to who you are as a person
in addition to a researcher so I wanted
to tell you on this inaugural show
of the black vault radio that you truly
were the original inspiration for me to
do what I do so thank you for that
you're very welcome I wish there were
more that I could say that I am that I
am inspired but I've been impressed with
your approach to things John that seems
to me you put facts first how amazing
yes
shockingly there's not a whole lot of
people that do that nowadays
and that is what struck me about you in
the very beginning is that you truly I
think pioneered the original research
angle I mean a lot of what we hear today
and not to take away from anybody but a
lot of what we hear today is stuff that
just kind of been rehashed or hashed
over people taking one thing from one
person and another term from another and
then just kind of putting it together
and then they make a blog out of it and
they feel like that's theirs but you
really pioneered that original research
angle and that's always what what has
impressed me about you
and just because I've been in 220
archives John yeah and and that and and
the amazing numbers too I mean 20
archives I don't know how many documents
you you've gone to you want to take a
guess at how many documents you've
probably gone through no I read an awful
lot of stuff and I comes out of when I
was working in industry I found that I
had to get the facts in hand mm-hmm I
was in radiation shielding on advanced
nuclear systems and there were times and
we had disputes about the best way to do
this or that and mahat facts in hand
before putting mouse in gear or you're
gonna look like an idiot I wish more
people take that advice yeah and well I
think it's necessary and there's enough
conflict in the world without putting
fake news out there or thinking
something is true because somebody heard
it from and heard it from somebody else
that's not good enough yeah and you get
surprises but there's nothing like being
eyed if somebody would pay me I would
have spent full time at archives would
be nice well the eyes narrow library
library and non Library of Congress
manuscript division and all that sort of
stuff a lot of great stuff out there but
it takes work I mean you got a s for it
and we got to go there and read it and
it's it's effort but it's fascinating
and you know there are a lot of
mysteries in the world at this time
ufology is only one of them but I think
it's very important that we recognize
that our place in the universe it is not
at the top of the heap mm-hmm that's
right and I think that that is the fear
for a lot of people to make that
realization you know I think people like
like us and maybe a lot of people
listening to this can handle it fine but
I think that there are a lot of people
out there that that want to be the top
and if they find out that they're not
that in itself is the national security
risk and to be honest with you I think
that that is the motivation for this
cover-up now before we get into all that
I want to back you up into your
beginning days you touched on it very
briefly already but I want to ask you a
little bit more before you got into the
Roswell incident and really started with
your ufology can you kind of give the
audience a little bit of a background of
you know who stands Keith Reaser was
prior to that it's easy when I was a kid
I read lots of science fiction mm-hmm
well I went on to become a scientist I
didn't read much science fiction I was
too busy working my way through college
and university and stuff believe it or
not I was a union waiter at a good
restaurant in Chicago for three years
while I was taking the Roasterie of
Chicago learned a lot about food that I
didn't I'll tell you that couldn't have
a war to go there myself you learn a lot
about people too doing I I was a faux
fur and bartender myself and I miss it
but you learn a lot about humans by
doing that yes you certainly do learn a
lot about people and so I worked my way
through school and you know I was naive
I got a job with General Electric and my
dad had worked for the same company
American Cyanamid for 37 years and I was
looking at the charts gee I can retire
gee he's got several nuclear division I
was particularly interested in nuclear
because Enrico Fermi was at the
University of Chicago and I
was very impressed with him died while I
was there nothing cuz of me and a laugh
at that but I got you the idea is that I
started with GE with the idea I stay
with them until I could retire at age 57
why not you know after three years and
their program people many Americans
don't have any concept of how much money
was spent on these advanced programs but
at General Electric aircraft for nuclear
propulsion Department Cincinnati
basically even deal Ohio if you want to
be technical
in 1958 we spent 100 million dollars we
employed 3400 people of whom 1,100 were
engineers and scientists we're not
talking about six professors sitting
around a table with ten grad students
mm-hmm was a major program I was very
lucky I worked I was one of the younger
guys I hadn't been in the military and
there were a lot of guys I've been GI
Bill and all that sort of thing and so I
was fascinated by the work but I could
see the handwriting on the wall that I
didn't see I told people and I left that
I didn't think there'd be a JEA MP
project in a year or two because there
was no leadership being provided I mean
the company had nothing invested except
the rug on the boss's floor literally
there's an old government facility and
so forth so I it was fascinating work
exciting I did experiments on citizen at
Oak Ridge and Idaho and radiation
shielding that was my bag how to protect
people from radiation and you know I
went on four separate jobs that all got
canceled the urgent general nucleonic
scum packed reactors for space vehicle
applications and I worked at General
Motors ålesund division again compact
reactors that you could transport from
place to place and the crowning glory
was westinghouse astra no clear lab in
pittsburgh pennsylvania where I worked
on nuclear rocket engines and I'd say
the high point in my industrial
career was when we successfully operated
the NR xa6 nuclear rocket engine
propulsion system out not far from area
51 at the nuclear tests I hate Wow and
you know here we get his reactor total
diameter was under eight feet power
level was 1,100 megawatts and Hoover Dam
produces 2,000 megawatts and I have a
lot bigger than eight feet and I asked
and you know and they played we had live
we could listen to the actual test of
that and our classified facility and it
was exciting because we didn't have any
idea how long that thing would operate
nobody had done this before I mean the
exhaust temperature the liquid hydrogen
going in it was cold when I went in it
was 4,000 degrees Fahrenheit when it
came out Wow we had no idea how well
this thing would stay together mm-hmm
you know would be shaken to pieces would
dump the filament through the nozzles
who knows so that was the high point
there but I got started on UFOs really
in a sense because I'm a cheapskate I
was ordering books from marburo books a
long time ago mailer place I need one
more books I wouldn't have to pay
shipping mm-hmm and there was a book to
report on unidentified flying objects by
Captain Edward J route of Project Blue
Book in the early 50s and it was marked
down from 299 to a book so because it
would my shipping would be covered for
the rest of the order it was costing me
nothing so what the heck
our program was co-sponsored by the Air
Force in the Atomic Energy Commission in
a big rocket program so you know it's
exciting and it was cheap and the book
intrigued me it didn't convince me but
it intrigued me and I was surprised what
what made me angry a little bit later
that was in 1958 when I read that book
it was at the University of California
Berkeley library in the early 60s
and I found a copy of Project Blue Book
special report number 14 now that did
surprise me because it hadn't been
mentioned by that time I'd read ten
books some of which were garbage and
none of them had mentioned Blue Book
expression report fourteen biggest study
ever done for the Air Force
how come wasn't mentioned those other
books and dr. Leon Davidson who had
gotten it published had included the Air
Force press release from the early 50s
which included the crazy statement on
the basis of this study we believe that
no objects such as those properly
described as flying saucers have
overflown the United States even the
unknown three percent excuse me could
have been identified as conventional
phenomena or illusions of more complete
observational data had been available
mm-hmm it seems straightforward the only
trouble was I had to report the unknowns
weren't 3% or 6% or 12% year 21 and a
half first and mmm-hmm that's not three
rounded off or icons and also they had
quality evaluations of 3201 sightings
charts tables graphs maps loaded with
data and evidence and a quality
evaluation showed the better the quality
of the sighting the more likely to be
unexplainable that's what you'd expect
if the sightings were real mm-hmm
and so that report made me angry I don't
like being lied to
especially by the air force sector the
air force is quoted as making that
statement and so that I wanted to I got
to turn I'm going to find out what's
really going on here there has to be
something going on if the government
lies so blatantly you know I'm a mess
accustomed to dealing with security and
tiptoeing around the truth sometimes but
this was a blatant lie and so I joined a
pro and I cap the two big UFO groups to
get their newsletters and stuff to learn
more and my you know somebody at work
asked me to speak to their book review
club oh I got to know Frank Edwards yes
flying saucers serious business he was
living in Indianapolis and I got a copy
of his book and then when I was working
in Pittsburgh and Westinghouse I called
Frank I said Frank you know everybody it
was a newsman and he did know and give
me some names here in Pittsburgh you
know I want to go public so he gave me
some names and one of them was the
producer of a radio show called contact
would you believe and I was on and I
wasn't as good then as dealing with the
nasty noisy negative is but apparently I
did okay and somebody at work and that
Westinghouse heard the program she had a
book review Club and they were reading
Frank's book and asked if I would give a
talk to her calm so that my first
lecture was in her living room oh wow
you know not a big production yeah but I
did the show Graham several times more
was on KDKA which is the biggest station
in Pittsburgh and I got a got asked one
day these things happened by accident
one of two days in the three year period
where I got a ride in to work with Joel
an PhD from Carnegie Tech at Carnegie
Mellon University and was telling her
how much I'd like to speak at Carnegie
Mellon she said well did you talk to the
Dean and I said no she's my husband Stan
he's heard on the radio give him a call
and so I called him and a talk was
arranged and was amazing
the place the crowd was great a few
hundred mm-hmm and there were no nasty
noisy negative questions and you know
things went extremely well
and it gave me a taste and the guy
the guy whose wife I had talked to I
sent a nice letter to the agency through
a boom we had booked the other speakers
and they booked me I mean from him he is
last question to me only was how much do
you want as you know a hundred dollars I
would have taken 50 but he booked me and
because I knew his wife he told me where
he was paying the other speakers 1517
and at that time that's probably a lot
of money I mean that's a lot of money
now so that's why I'm saying that you
know like he sent a nice letter to the
agent when booked me mm-hmm and then I
booked the the agent booked me at the
Engineering Society of Detroit how much
more respectable can you again I mean I
read Japanese of cars but that doesn't
count
yeah and they were sold out two weeks in
advance for a thousand people thousand
and eight people for dinner and a talk
I'll always remember that number and no
nasty negative attitudes and that
impressed me frankly and I was so pretty
darn young 2008 people holy cow
you know so I we had our successful test
a nuclear rocket engine and naturally as
a result of that the program was
canceled yeah no it seems to always be
the case with stuff with with success
let me ask you because you said that you
were at Westinghouse while you were
doing a lot of this was it weird and I
can only assume I'll let you talk about
it you know security clearances my
assumption as you probably had one at
this time oh I had a Q clearance from it
took a couple of months and get one when
I started work at GE good night all
during that time and I've been 56 and
this was
in late seventies yes and I had a cute
clearance the whole time so was it weird
was it weird to have that weird for you
to have the clearance be working in
these security projects but then on your
own time you're researching the lies and
the cover-ups of the same agencies that
the companies you're working for are
contracted by weird might not be the
word I would have used but I was well
aware of and and it's why I will say
this it's one of the things that kept me
as honest as you could possibly be I
didn't want to get into any trouble
mm-hm and I respected security and you
know there's a basic rule you can't tell
your friends without also telling your
enemies they read the newspapers they
listen to the radio and all the rest of
that so I've had people say well of
course you told your wife would you were
doing no I never told my wife anything
yeah so fine it's against the rules I
can lose my job and I don't know where
there's a spy sitting around no you
don't very important and I know once I
had to carry my own slides with me for a
classified program I was going to be
giving about probably no terrible
chilling from the care of it and I'll
tell you they sit you down and they
indoctrinate you and you know the slides
go with you not in the trunk of your car
that you're driving not the rental car
no with you on your person and if the
plane crashes we need your itinerary to
point crashes we don't care about you we
care about the slice right McCarran
calling aside I was so glad they're rid
of that stuff imagine so I and I think I
did once have somebody X went over to
his home after a lecture I gave in Texas
and indicated that he would they I was
being kept the reserves and I being kept
on me but that they approved what I was
doing I was not
it was okay that was a relief and I was
not surprised somebody was paying
attention but pleased that I wasn't
stepping across the line and it's
something I've always tried to be very
careful about and again because it could
cost my job and national security is not
a trivial matter yeah you know I know
some people think it doesn't matter to
anybody but it does to me even though I
haven't had a clearance you know since
the first fourteen years so that would
be from 1970 on I haven't had a
clearance and I look security is
necessary for a lot of things it's like
the first spice at like the corona spy
satellite again people don't appreciate
maybe the first 12 launches we knew the
YouTube would be destroyed at some point
which it was oh you're probably not even
older to remember that but it came as
quite a shock on the worst five points
with very powers yeah no I wasn't around
then but I do definitely know the story
and have gone after quite a few
documents about it
yeah and security is important yeah he
do have to be careful about it and when
I mentioned the corona spy satellite we
knew that the u2's would be would reach
their limit there were 12 unsuccessful
launches of the attempt to put a corona
spy satellite in space mm-hmm the 13th
one works they can imagine how much
money we're talking about here yeah and
it got more data so we had military
construction you know it's just going
round and round and looking I then all
the u2 flights that had preceded it it
was not Declassified it went on for many
years
mm-hmm and it was only Declassified
after it got replaced by other ones I
got a real kick out of one of the things
about Corona they D orbited the film
they kicked it out of the spacecraft
and an airforce plane caught it like a
big net no kidding out over the Pacific
in secret yeah I mean that's kind of
neat
that's actually very cool I've never
heard that about Corona I think one of
the things on your point that most
people don't realize today and I'm often
ridiculed for saying this because I've
spent now more than half of my life
decades of my life going after
government secrets but I come from a
family who has who has had clearances
top secret clearance my grandfather
worked on propulsion systems and we
believe we kind of traced some of his
research and we believe that it led into
the the Saturn 5 rockets that that took
us to the moon he was working at Bell
Aircraft and worked on the bell x-1 and
then the Bell x5 that crushed every
where I got the x1 yeah very cool but
where I'm often ridiculed is I actually
support that some secrets should be kept
and I think a lot of people you know
they back people like Edward Snowden and
I don't know what your thoughts are on
that but I have been very outspoken
about what he has done and people trying
to spill the beans about some of these
classified programs and classified you
know things that are going I'm not for
the bean Spillers yeah and neither am i
and I'm glad to hear you say that but I
I think it's important and I think
you've reinforced it that some secrets
should be kept and that that's gonna
lead me to my next question to you so
after you read all this material on UFOs
you went from intrigue to anger because
obviously you're feeling lied to
obviously you kind of went full bore and
went after the Roswell incident and and
and really did an amazing job getting
out in the field literally talking to
people going to archives going through
documents what made you push on that
specifically on Roswell versus you know
Socorro or some of these other UFO clubs
what was it about Roswell I I got very
lucky I heard about it from a television
program producer
Louisiana I was giving a lecture and the
students brought me to the station to do
three interviews and when I finished one
of them the third one the producer says
you know the guy got a task to talk to
is Jesse Marcel and brilliant
investigator than I am I said who's he
yeah well his next sentence changed my
life he handled records or one of those
saucers you're interested in when he was
in the military what you know it came
out of the blue and there was nobody
around he wasn't joking
this was not a casualty loss foundry
mark what do you know about him he lives
over in Houma great guy turns out they
were ham-radio buddies from it had been
for years
and I when I later asked him what did
Jesse tell you he didn't tell me
anything this guy the producer had seen
the articles in the newspaper back there
and 47 you know army captures flying
saucer on ranch in Roswell region and a
few hours later Air Forces only weather
balloon radar reflector combination I
took care of that you know and so
Roswell intrigued me I was impressed I
called information for the young people
that's how you used to get phone numbers
it didn't go on your computer because
they didn't have one yeah you called
information and the information our
operators were very knowledgeable you
could say is that in a nice part of town
things fine they would know a lot times
I got a number for Jesse now I was
impressed by him as a person but also
look at his position he was the
intelligence officer for the only atomic
bombing group in the entire world at the
time in the world the Russians didn't
have one until 49 and so you don't get
to be dad without having a lot on the
ball and general the man who was head of
the 509 what went on he was he was a
colonel when he was at Roswell but he
went on to be a four-star general was
vice chief to Stan
for the United States Air Force when he
died of a massive heart attack again not
a dink and so I found out about Roswell
you know in the 70s and I first heard
about it from somebody else on some time
around on what I was just talking about
a woman named Lydia slippy we calling
and I had talked to her son who had had
a good sight and he said you ought to
talk to my mom and we did and she had
lived in Albuquerque and she had a the
Roswell story to some limited extent in
other words and so you know you do your
thing but it was only after talking to
Jesse that Bill Moore and I went after
finding people first year we found 60
people in conjunction with Roswell
mmm-hmm and one of them of course was
Walter Haut you know and talked about
luck John you know about this every once
in a while good things happen you're not
expecting them I didn't know anything
about Roswell so I looked and Oh they've
got a newspaper I looked in editor &
Publisher Roswell Daily Record called
them and asked trying to get some more
information I have a story here about
something that happened years ago and it
mentions Walter Haut or hot his name is
spelled three different ways in the
articles I had mm-hmm and I was shocked
when the gal on the other end says Oh
his wife works here
what Wow so I talked to the wife then I
talked to Walter and he was a great help
he had a copy of the base your book
which he made for me and he remembered a
lot of the people he was the PIO at but
he also for those who say law public
information I was a big deal
he was also a World War two bomb but
here more than 20 bombing missions over
Japan and dropped the instrument package
and one of the nuclear weapons tests in
1946 you pick your best guy to do that
because we didn't have a lot of nuclear
weapons back then you want a waste one
if you don't have your instrument
package in the right place at the right
time
it's a wasted expression that's silly
so Walter was very special and I did
check he was well thought of in town but
bill Moore and I found over 60 people in
the first year after that I was
impressed with the people I talked to
their backgrounds and what I could dig
out from the newspapers and stuff and so
rocks well yeah you could say I'm
fixated on Roswell they love me in
Roswell but to give your audience
some idea of how interested people are
last year the International UFO Museum
and Research Center in Roswell had two
hundred and twenty three thousand
visitors that's crazy
from all over the world I mean
especially when you consider Roswell in
the middle of nowhere yeah I mean it's
200 miles from Albuquerque 200 miles
around Marilla Turner miles from El Paso
it's not on the way to anywhere you know
it's not a place people cry but you got
to want to go there I've been there
myself you had you literally have to
it's it's like you said it's not on the
road and you take a five minute detour
it's it's out there it's quite a hike
yeah and so I say that not to impress
people about me but to let them know
there are a lot of people interested in
the subject they wouldn't make that
dragged their kids
you know to Roswell and to me it's only
fitting John you realized that the base
was closed they've got a 13,000 foot
runway their runways are typically nine
or ten thousand at the Roswell Army
Airfield because that's where the five
or ninth was based and these huge Beach
thirty Six's were lumbering in there and
so I it it's special all right
but when Lyndon Johnson ran for
president in 64 New Mexico didn't vote
for him so after he became president he
closed the base in New Mexico and moved
it to Texas amazing yeah
so it seems fitting to me that they get
the benefit of the government lives and
cover up and all that sort of stuff
there are lots of people working at the
base and they were put out of work for
no good reason at all yeah sadly that
happens way too often around the country
but specifically in Roswell after you
spoke to everybody Walter Haut and all
these people that had the direct
connection to kind of bottom-line it for
the audience how convinced are you that
it was an alien spacecraft and not some
other top-secret
weather balloon oh very very convinced
partly because remember that Jesse
Marcel had a top-secret clearance when
he was there as the intelligence officer
for the 509 mm-hmm and the way the
government would deal with something
like that was to say look this is
classified technology and we cannot say
anything about it yeah you know and
nobody did anything like that and and I
think that that's not to interrupt you
that's a very important point because
with a top-secret clearance being who he
was on that base anything in or around
or on that base that was highly
classified he would know about it so as
decades go on you get involved the Air
Force keeps changing their story you
would think that that he would you know
in essence have the quote-unquote real
answer if it was technology but what did
he tell you did he tell you it was alien
just to make sure the audience knows
what you heard from him he no he he had
handled wreckage
he saw the pieces of wreckage because
Mac Brazel had brought them into the
sheriff's office and the sheriff had
sent him to the base and he talked to
Jesse and he talked to a lot of people
and Walter and had talked to a lot of
people and they made very clear that
there was no indication from Colonel
been Colonel Blanchard you know that
this was how
technology and as I say from my own
working unclassified programs mm-hmm
if it had been ours I believe the word
would have been put out to keep your
damn mouth shut
yeah and everybody would have paid
attention believe me they would mm-hmm
all right because that's how these
things work so you know the story was
buried very quickly but the more
witnesses you talk to and the more data
you heard I I was stuck
mm-hmm this darn thing was real and you
know there have been debunkers all over
the place debunk is easy you don't need
to know anything just denial denial
denial if the first explanation doesn't
work try a second one that doesn't work
try a third one just keep trying until
something sticks yeah yeah and so
Roswell
you know I focused a lot of attention on
it sure but I was able to get because I
started you know somewheres near the
time somebody who was directly involved
Jesse get access to lots of people and
get stories from lots of people mm-hmm
and what can I say not everybody in the
world is a liar all the time which is
what you'd have to say if you say the
story isn't true mm-hmm do I believe
everything everybody ever anybody ever
told me of course not
mm-hmm but you try to evaluate on the
basis of who's trustworthy and as I say
Blanchard went on to be a four-star
general Mike's chief of staff of the Air
Force this is not a dink yeah you know
this is not somebody with nothing better
to do with twiddle his thumbs and make
up stories and stuff like that and I did
talk to Blanchard's daughter and two
sons you know I talked to an awful lot
of people because he was dead when I got
involved in this thing yeah and I
couldn't talk to him I would have if I
could have but I don't know how to get
to the other side yeah and after all
you've done and you're convinced so now
you know you you're saying that you're
convinced and that to be honest with you
knowing you personally and knowing your
back
crime that's good enough for me when it
comes to Roswell just simply because I
know you've done the legwork it's not
one or two or three people that support
this story but rather you know you have
talked to an exceptional amount let me
ask you then before we move away from
Roswell what do you feel after
everything that you've done and
researched and who you've talked to what
do you feel the motivation is by the
military and by the government to cover
this up and the reason why I ask other
than the obvious one is it is so blatant
not only with your research and your
books which by the way for those
listening if you haven't checked them
out definitely check out the books you
can order them online and see a lot more
about Stanton Friedman at
www.stanford.edu n FR IE DM aen dot-com
definitely check out those books but
stand after everything that that you've
done that in itself is amazing but when
you look at how blatant the lie really
is I love doing public lectures and I
start with the most recent explanation
quote-unquote for the Roswell incident
by the government and it is so easy to
dismiss pretty much everything that they
try and claim about the Roswell incident
it's not a stretch there's no leaked
documents there's not one guy who told
me something in a dark garage one day it
is using their own documents to disprove
their own story why is that right Oh
dummies dropped six years later good
enough for you yeah I mean it's
ridiculous how how blatant the cover-up
is meaning the lies and you can prove it
why is it meaning why are they doing
this why is it so easy to disprove it
and what is their to motivation to keep
the lie going well I I'm worried about
that obviously I may have noticed I
don't speak for the government right oh
I I think there are several reasons
major one is technology in other words
if we have wreckage and of trying to
learn from it
and if the right our enemies find that
out they can put it together with what
they have learned and maybe they can
beat us to the punch and you know
developing a higher faster further kind
of vehicle secondly I think that we tend
to forget I don't I've got to look up
the latest number how many countries
there are on planet earth but it's I
think it's over 190 there aren't many
people thinking of themselves as
earthlings people in power want to stay
in power and III think that's one of the
reasons you don't want to get the world
thinking that this is a planet and
should have a government because of it
does and I'm not going to be doing what
I'm doing in charge also I think there
is a feeling that the aliens at some
time or other may decide not to land on
a White House lawn which is one of those
silly notions
it's a no-fly zone you know but to come
clean and times have changed look the
Pope has talked about life in outer
space you know time thanks really have
changed and the biggest thing is the
Kepler satellite space telescope if you
will when Frank Drake and Carl Sagan
were talking about life in outer space
and let's listen for radio signals you
know and all this kind of stuff
Frank was talking about 8-thousand there
may be 8,000 places I could be sending
us signals 8,000 planets mm-hmm
the latest numbers from Kepler indicate
there are 1.6 planets per star so in our
galaxy alone that would be well over a
hundred billion planets hmm and I'm
saying they all have life and maybe only
10% maybe 2% you're still talking about
a huge number no even a fraction 1,000
usually the kids learned that the
nearest star is 4.3 light years away but
if you look at the
the neighborhood there loads of stars
and have other stars much much closer to
them than that my favorite paired Zeta 1
and Zeta 2 Reticuli from the Benny Hill
star map stuff described in my book
captured etcetera I those two stars only
thirty nine point three light-years from
here but from each other they're only an
eighth of a Lightyear apart
the other one is visible all day long
from a planet around the other one
that's more than 30 times closer to each
other than we are to the next star over
so we're in the Belize mm-hmm we're on
the ad states but the other thing that's
changed
you know Bishop Ussher in the 16th
century I guess it was figured out he
was interested in sex he looked at all
the big gaps in the Bible and figured
out that the world was created in about
4004 BC so it's six six thousand years
old now we know that the earth alone is
good four billion years old give or take
them a few million tons of millions of
years so that makes time for others to
have developed trips to the neighbors
mm-hmm because everybody is going to ask
two questions among many are we alone
and how do you get there mm-hmm and you
know what do they want out there and
when you start looking at things that
way all right
everybody is also going to ask an
obvious question how does the Sun work
mm-hmm people don't realize 100 years
ago we thought the Sun was a massive
burning gas and yeah and it turns out it
isn't it's nuclear fusion going on there
now I'm one of the few people can say I
worked on a study of fusion proposing
way back in 1962 and if you got the
dough you can go that was so I'm saying
every civilization is going to ask the
question how does
star of ours produce its energy yeah we
figured it out in 1938 that's after I
was born
mm-hmm and you know frisson and then
fusion and again people don't understand
how much of a jump it is these aren't
just a little better than a chemical
rocket a big bomb in World War two and
which there were many dropped was a
10-ton Blockbuster released the energy
of ten tons of dynamite Wow I think a
big hole in the ground all right all
right okay the first atomic bomb 1945
efficient device releasing energy of
15,000 tons of dynamite 10 tons 15,000
tons the first
h-bomb of fusion device 1950 to reduce
the energy of 10 million tons of
dynamite mm-hmm and the Russian set off
Tsar Bomba name yes you know very how
big 15 million tons of dynamite that's
insane that is the biggest explosion
right to date yes yeah and the kicker is
what I'm saying is not to scare people
about nuclear explosions but to realize
to any alien in this neighborhood he
knows we couldn't go out and bother them
fusion would do the job and our track
record is pretty damn bad if you'll
pardon the expression but we killed 50
million people in World War 2 we
destroyed 1700 cities when everybody in
the neighborhood want us to take our
brand of friendship out there yeah I
don't think so they keep their eye on us
and you know maybe you say well we're
really good guys at heart yeah but look
at the evidence now 50 million deaths
you don't value life very much do you
earthlings yeah yeah I don't know that's
a huge conversation in itself where in
would aliens then at that point
care to either come here or if they've
been here come back you know what I mean
because if there are as one civilization
that has the ability to reach us and can
visit planet Earth the biggest question
that I've struggled with now for more
than 20 years is I don't know if they've
been here or not but if they have would
they ever care to come back I mean we
are that anthill in my opinion the
anthill in the middle of the Sahara
Desert that isn't worth their time you
know what I mean we have a quarantine
izj ah yeah kind of I mean we'll
quarantine but but just by quarantine
they can just ignore you know what I
mean I mean we just don't have it have I
show up on their doorsteps with nuclear
weapons rather too ready to enforce
their will on us yeah us on them but do
you do you think they don't think the
Galactic Federation wants to allow that
kind of stuff to go on if and this is an
honest question because I think that
this is a big one do you think which it
doesn't even have the biggest nuclear
bomb that we've exploded that when the
Soviets did it do you think that that
would even threaten them at all it
threatens us and it scares the bejeebers
out of probably a lot of people who
weren't aware of the magnitude of the
nuclear weapons but to a civilization
who can traverse the Stars and this is
an honest question do you think that
that that would even be remotely close
to the technology and the weaponry
that's that someone like that has I know
probably not because we haven't been
around long enough to develop the
ultimate if you will but it would be
enough to say keep your eye on the
idiots over there yeah at the rate
they're look we have exploded 2,000
nuclear weapons on this planet mm-hmm
you know and some of them underwater and
all the rest of them huge that isn't the
point it tells you something about the
civilization here so I don't think the
Galactic Federation Intelligence Agency
I just made up a new alphabet soup page
yes I would want to let us zip along in
our own speed and come out and threaten
them mm-hmm we're more like
were nasty like I say 50 million lives
is not peanut butter you know so I think
that I think they're good reasons for
their not landing and saying okay guys
here's the way you got to do business I
think there are rules because I think an
advanced civilization makes rules to
protect its citizens and we haven't
really done that you know here we're at
the war they're at war that's the way it
goes on earth yeah it's probably a song
there no and there absolutely is a song
there's a hundred and ninety five
countries to go back to what you were
saying before yeah so there's a hundred
ninety five countries as we talk and to
be honest with you there's a hundred and
ninety five mindsets of how this planet
should be run and to your point I don't
think there's any unity to that fact
meaning and the number is growing from
what I understand from 109 right so I
mean people aren't coming together and
joining hands and and and living in a
paradise sadly it is quite the opposite
where we have Wars going on and
different parts of the world in
different countries and people who hate
each other still hate each other and so
on and so forth so sadly there's just no
unity here on the planet Earth and not
to sound a little new agey but sadly we
do need to get to that point where we
work together and and figure out because
we are gonna have to figure out how to
get off this planet and join that
galactic federation if it exists we have
a space force now so why not you know
create and join the the Galactic
Federation because I did a show stand I
don't know if you saw it but it was
about the end of the world that was on
History Channel and I got to produce and
write this thing and it was called I
didn't well between you and me and
everyone listening I didn't care for the
ultimate title it ended up originally it
was called the end but it ended up
doomsday ten ways the planet will die
and every episode talked about nuclear
war or an asteroid impact or so on and
so forth so this production company
called me and they said okay we've got
an episode the synopsis is if aliens
come here and they're in
is malicious what happens and so I got
to literally write a one-hour show yeah
it was it was a lot of fun I'll have to
send you a link to it so you can walk
because you can watch my whole point is
is is and that goes to my question to
you earlier was do we even could we even
ding their Armour or so to speak with
what we've got because if they're there
and they can traverse the Stars they've
got an awful lot that travel is not such
a big deal and I mentioned nuclear I
didn't point out that for example um
world war ii submarine you know u-boats
big threat to shipping everywhere could
stay underwater for 24 hours mm-hmm now
they can go around the world without
coming to surf yeah yeah and we have
nuclear-powered aircraft carriers they
need a tanker nearby they can operate
for 18 years without refueling just
mm-hmm
so that's what I'm saying part of the
picture you remember the Malmstrom Air
Force Base case they're paying attention
to where we have nuclear weapons
so we're looming large and somebody's
public's ago keep your eye on the idiot
and that's us in the laughs yeah in the
last 10 minutes here with you Stan
because I know you're you're packing
your bags literally to go to Roswell
here in the next the next day so I do
appreciate you taking the time but in
the last 10 minutes I want to talk about
today ufology today in the state of
research into this field I mean
obviously the last seven months has been
fairly seven eight months has been
fairly exciting we've got news of a you
know a secret Pentagon UFO study which
is fairly controversial still we don't
know a whole lot about it
a lot of speculation and rumor out there
we don't know you know exactly what it
is but with that being said it's an
exciting time and sadly you did announce
your retirement earlier this year from
the field and as a friend of yours I'm
telling you you seem more busy in your
retirement than you did while you were
active so hopefully you were getting
some rest
and well I'm look this trip to Roswell
which I leave tomorrow mm-hmm
is my last big trip I've got another
lecture booked in South Carolina which
has been booked for many many months and
maybe one in California and that's it
mm-hmm hey I'm gonna be 84 John yeah
well 84 you're supposed to be traipsing
around the neck galactic neighborhood
when you're 84 yeah well you've done
you've done amazing in the the 84 years
young that you've been around let me let
me go back to that question though of
what you feel today is are you happy
with with what the field is today from
from the late 1960s on are you disturbed
what's what's going on I I think it's a
it's a mix there are things that bother
me there are things that please me I I
think that I noticed the MUFON Journal
is getting fancier looking good serious
effort what I want to know and you
mentioned that the release of
information last December in January
louise Elizondo and others and the fact
that there was a secret program for cost
we only spent 22 million dollars which
is peanuts but the question I want to
have an answer to and I've been
impressed with what I've seen
Elizondo and some of the others but my
quick question is where is the paper you
don't have government-sponsored programs
without there being reports generated
the nature of the beast you know you
can't avoid paper progress reports
quarterly reports semiannual reports
annual reports technical reports they're
all over the place we haven't seen one
yep yeah and then why and was it because
the original stuff story came out and
they were afraid to prosecute the people
for releasing it because and that would
be admitting that it was true but
they're withholding the rest I don't
know it bothers me mm-hm I want to see
those reports guys yeah no I and I agree
and that's been one of the red flags and
concerns for me now I will say that the
official line from the
government side is that the reports
everything that you just mentioned and
your this is why I love you to death is
that you know what to go after so those
are the reports that I'm going after and
according to a couple different agencies
now mostly the office of the Secretary
of Defense everything that you just
mentioned would be at the Defense
Intelligence Agency and sadly out of the
entire government federal etc the that
is the worst agency that it could be yet
because they are roughly approximately
about two years backlogged I literally
just got a FOIA response from them I kid
you not about a week and a half ago that
was in response to a request I did in
2014 so that could yeah and so I mean
four years on that one alone the average
is about a year and a half to two years
now so to go back to your point where is
everything where's the beef
the official line that's at the DIA but
once it gets processed we could wait two
years for nothing because that request
that I did in 2014 if you can believe it
the responsive records were 100%
classified so I waited four years for
them to tell me that they couldn't give
it to me so that being said I'm with you
I want to see the beef I want to see the
original stuff the the progress reports
the quarterly reports you know and but
again that's that's a show in itself so
tomorrow where do you think you follow
gee is I think it's sitting waiting for
old guys like me to retire I guess among
other things but no we don't want you to
go to be honest with you at all I'm
still at the end of a phone you know
yeah I can do that easily without I went
to Arkansas several months ago three
four flights they get there from here
thanks that's walking around airports
I'll tell you at my age anyway but I
think there is definitely a difference
in attitude I don't get many people
saying with
the only ones anymore mm-hmm and you
know there's an old saying if you will
new ideas come to be accepted not
because your opponents come to believe
in them but because there's a their
opponents die and a new generation grows
up that's accustomed to them mm-hmm
and I think we're living at a time where
we're accustomed to the idea of there
being aliens out there you know it's not
a shocking notion to young people oh
sure we can go in space why couldn't
they be going in space and so I'm
pleased that I think we're going to be
moving forward and I think there will be
more people who take it seriously
I think that there will be more stories
maybe we won't get the documents an
optimist about that but I think there
will be more people who may make
deathbed confessions because the ground
has already been walked on so to speak
mm-hmm all right and so I'm still an
optimist John yeah sure I would like to
have said 20 years ago Oh we'll know
everything in 10 years you know I
couldn't have said then and I won't now
but I think the tone is right that is I
think people have grown accustomed to
the notion that there are aliens out
there not necessarily that they're
coming here that the government is
covered up although I always get a great
response when I show an NSA UFO document
where you can read one sentence per page
or you know there's those hundreds of
CIA documents all blacked out redacted
that sounds so much better than yeah and
that's why they use whiteout on some of
them so it doesn't look as striking well
yeah the NSA documents I got 156 pages
of top-secret Umbra material you can
read one sentence per page mm-hmm and
the NSA actually put out a memo haven't
looked at in a long time saying that we
have reason to believe that some or all
of our agencies shall be will receive
requests from Stanton Friedman I gave my
address what they block that out
God for information about UFOs if such a
request is received do not respond is
required by Air Force regulation blah
blah blah blah instead sending requests
to headquarters if there's nothing to
cover up what do you make statements
like that for yeah they're worried
they're worried that people ask
questions like you have done and have
done beautifully for decades they're
afraid of that and I think people are
most people are just comfortable taking
what I call the company line and moving
on they go back to their cell phones and
their reality TV and they don't care to
to ask questions and I think as
indicative by that memo you just talked
about when people like you come along
and they ask questions and they push
back that in itself is is part of that
national security problem about UFOs
that keeps me curious I don't know if
you feel the same way but it's that
cover-up that is so blatant I just I
can't lose interest I can't I can't stop
you know I just keep kind of pushing oh
the feeling John and I look at people
ask me who's coming along that you would
trust and yours is the first name that
comes to mind well I'm honored somebody
who's pushed it was pushed hard and how
shall I put it legally you've gone
through channels you've done things the
right way you haven't disgraced the
field my there are people who wail
loudly making all kinds of claims it
isn't good enough to make claims yeah do
something about it yeah you know show me
the paper that's right and there's not a
whole lot of original true original
research out there and you know I could
talk to you all day long and sadly you
know this is kind of the end of the hour
that we allotted for our dialogue here
but I really do hope obviously we're
friends that will continue to talk but
on the air I want to tell you hopefully
you do realize not only with me how much
of an inspiration that you have been
because of that original research and
because of that hard work I mean you
truly were the pioneer in this and
showing others hey
don't be afraid to do this don't be
afraid to ask questions I can tell you
that I probably don't just speak for
myself with that so I hope when when we
hang up even though we'll probably talk
again very soon for for everyone out
there just know that that that that
you're an inspiration to them too and I
think that for anybody who wants to
learn more about Stanton he really is
the real deal I don't say it that often
as you guys will listen to this show and
hopefully continue to listen week after
week it is very rare for me to truly
endorse the work of somebody stanton is
definitely one of them check him out at
WWSD n friedman calm amazon has you
listed stand as the author of 12 books
is that an accurate number I would have
said 6 but there are some things that
some people call books and I don't go I
gotcha
ok well it spits out 12 I believe on
Amazon
regardless by Amal if you're listening
there definitely well worth it well
researched and again that original
research that we all know and love so
Stanton thank you so so much for joining
me on this first episode it was only
fitting out of this entire field for me
to ask you to appear with me on this on
this first show which I'm very excited
about and there's a lot of exciting
shows coming but thank you for taking my
pleasure John thanks for having me thank
you and that wraps up my interview with
Stanton Friedman but don't go anywhere
because coming up is that one document
I'm gonna profile this episode and it's
one that is on the top of my list as not
only being important but it's one of my
favorites stay tuned for this episode's
edition of tbv unredacted
[Music]
this week's document and tbv unredacted
is kind of fitting for my first show not
only as you just heard mr. Stanton
Friedman who I have known longer than
anybody in the UFO field let me tell you
he's an amazing person to know not only
because of who he is but of the
knowledge that he has that it goes well
beyond Roswell and we only scratched the
surface you can only do that
barely in an hour with Stanton but I
also felt it fitting that this episode's
first TBB unredacted highlight is the
first document that I ever got under the
Freedom of Information Act now here's
the backstory when I was 15 years old
like I told Stanton in the introduction
I was fascinated by the topic never
thought that I would be an investigator
never thought that I would actually go
out there and start filing for your
request and trying to get answers and
that method rather I was just looking
for information online I wanted to see
what was out there and I read about this
document it had been out before and it
was called the 1976 Iran incident that's
what it's been infamously known as and
it was a four-page government document
or so this website claimed and I read
through it and I thought to myself
there's no way that this document could
be real now I'll get to the story in a
second so when I was 15 this website
kind of knew that there would be some
skepticism behind what this document was
was all about and people would doubt it
and that's exactly what I did because
there are so many bunk stories out there
I just didn't believe that this one was
real and so it talked about this thing
called the Freedom of Information Act
now I had no idea what the Freedom of
Information Act even was at this point
but it said if you want to get the
document itself you can all you have to
do is ask for it now I thought there's
no way that the government is gonna send
little old me anything for free but
that's what this website said so they
gave you kind of a form letter that you
could copy and paste asking for this
specific record it was only four pages
and sure enough
I filed that request and within about a
month I think it took the government
sent it to me now I was shocked because
this document was real now what's the
contents well it's an incident that
happened in September of 1976 it goes a
little something like this
the base commander there at the local
Imperial Iranian Air Force Base was
receiving multiple phone calls from
people all around the city they were
talking about a UFO an unknown aircraft
in their vicinity that shouldn't be
there and they were asking well what do
you guys have in the air well the base
commander tried to tell everybody that
they were just seeing stars in the sky
but after quite a few phone calls
according to this document he went
outside took some field binoculars sure
enough he sees the UFO now it shouldn't
have been there
all right that's that's point number one
he knew everything that was in that area
he was the base commander and he didn't
have anything in the air so he scrambles
an f4 phantom jet to go take a look now
as it gets about 25 nautical miles from
the object something strange happens
this document says that the f4 phantom
jet lost all communication and most of
his control panels everything just kind
of shut down so thinking it was a plane
malfunction or something like that it
had turned away from the object
seemingly no longer a threat to whatever
this UFO was it regained everything now
that's not my assumption if you could
believe it the document actually is the
one that says that itself it says and I
quote as the f4 approached a range of 25
nautical miles
he lost all instrumentation and
communications parenthesis UHF and
intercom he broke off the intercept and
headed back to sure okie that's the
airbase when the f4 turned away from the
object and apparently was no longer a
threat to it the aircraft regained all
instrumentation and communications
unquote now that's a pretty interesting
summation in this document because it
was showing that whatever this object
was had intelligence now the base
commander once this f4 phantom returned
scrambled a completely different f4
phantom jet to go take a look and it
approached at about 25 nautical miles
the exact same distance as the first one
when it lost all communications and and
instrumentation and then something
strange happened this time a second UFO
appeared out of the first one now
instead of flying around or staying
stationary this second UFO darted
straight forward towards the f4 phantom
jet now for any military pilots that are
listening if you see something come off
of a aircraft that you're approaching
and engaging and it comes at you chances
are that's some kind of offensive
maneuver or a missile of some kind so
the pilot is pretty much nervous at this
point and he arms his aim for missiles
to fire back he goes to fire three two
one pushes the button everything shuts
down all communication instrumentation
he has no control of his aircraft or
those missiles that he just armed so now
he's a sitting duck he sees this
incoming object thinking that it's a
missile but before impact according to
the document it drops down loops around
his aircraft then Jets back to the
original UFO for a perfect rejoin the
pilot even says that he thought it was
going so fast there was going to be a
collision but there was not this object
was able to perfectly rejoin to that
first UFO seconds later a third UFO was
seen this one comes out of the side of
the first UFO now this one instead of
jetting straight towards that pilot it
goes straight down also at a great rate
of speed and right before impact on the
ground it cast a light about a third of
a kilometer in diameter according to
this document now this is the strange
part what happens next and I'm not sure
the document seemingly just kind of
jumps over the most important part kind
of the the pinnacle of this story where
this UFO what lands on the ground does
it blow something up to a
and bodies come out we don't really know
and that's the frustrating part because
this document then kind of skips towards
the fact that the pilot eventually
regained control communications turned
around returned to base saw a fourth UFO
his senses instrumentation was not
working correctly he had to go way out
into the desert turn around for a long
approach that way he didn't crash it was
night time and saw a fourth UFO while
doing that he said described it as a
cigar shaped UFO the original craft the
one I wish I didn't have this term it's
the only one that makes sense though but
like the mothership of the original UFO
he described it as a parent the apparent
size of one third the size of the moon
so that was the description that he gave
the apparent us one third the apparent
size of the moon is the exact quote so
as you look at a full moon in the sky
one third of that full moon at 25
nautical miles that is approximately
what size this object was so fairly
sizable by by a vision by by his
eyeballs and so that's um that's what he
saw now the report then goes on after he
lands back at base they go out the next
morning to where this craft allegedly
had landed or hovered above the ground
didn't see anything on the ground but
they saw a small shack or house nearby
they landed in their helicopter
questioned the residence asked them
specifically did you guys see or hear
anything last night they did recount
seeing a lot of bright flashing lights
through the windows but they didn't dare
look outside they also heard some loud
crashing like noises but again they did
not want to go outside of their home to
take a look at what's going on the
report ends with the fact that they
collected soil samples for radiation and
that the results when available would be
forwarded over that's a pretty amazing
four-page document there's even more
details I invite you to check out the
show notes with links to this document
read it yourself it's only for
pages but one of the most fascinating
things for me when I first received it I
didn't realize how important this aspect
was but one of the most fascinating
characteristics to it is the fact that
you can read it there are no redactions
and it is considered unclassified now
really stop and think about that fact
and the reason is is because the fact
that you can read it and it's not
redacted in the coming episodes and
jumped the gun on me don't wait for me
to tell you about them go to the archive
on the black vault comm go to the UFO
section and look at how many UFO related
documents are considered top-secret to
this day blacked out or in the NSA's
case whited out and they will not tell
you what the contents are of those
documents now when you can read this one
this four-page document that's not
redacted not classified considered
unclassified in the intelligence world
if you can read it what the heck is in
those other top-secret documents that we
can't
the last thing I'll point out about this
incident is this was 1976 this was seven
years after the United States Air Force
closed their official investigation
known as Project Blue Book now the
reason why that's important is that once
Project Blue Book closed the United
States military and the United States
government alike claimed that they had
zero interest in the UFO phenomena and
on on that note they claimed that the
UFO phenomena in their investigations of
more than 12,000 600 sightings never saw
evidence that a UFO case was a threat to
national security now I can tell you
there are quite a few examples of that
very thing in the project Bluebook files
but that's for another episode with this
particular document this proved beyond
any shadow of a doubt that the United
States military the United States
government should be investigating this
it was a threat to national security we
don't even have this technology today
for craft to strategically shut down
communication and controls of another
aircraft and then give it back when it's
no longer a threat that is amazing
technology in 1976 let alone here in
2018 so what exactly was this object I
know we have drones flying around and
I'm sure a lot of them can handle other
aircraft and drones and you know they
can fly in the sky and piggyback on each
other and that's fine
but this was 1976 how many descriptions
of mother ship type aircraft I'm sorry
to be a little sci-fi with the lingo
there but how many mother ship type
scenarios do you have in 1976 where
multiple crafts are fitting inside of a
bigger one that is why this document
deserves to be the first document that I
profile here on tbv unredacted because
it is the first document I ever got it
is an absolutely fascinating story but
more than anything else this document
serves as really the reason why I got
hooked on this topic and Here I am more
than 21 years later talking about this
document still because it is that's
important to me but talking to you on
the air about it and I hope you do take
a couple minutes and read it because the
implications behind this are absolutely
staggering with that being said thank
you so much for listening to the first
and premier episode of the black vault
radio I'm your host John Greenwald jr.
and there are many more episodes to come
I don't have a set date they will be
dropped onto the channel at random times
including new features to come along
this includes new segments with more
information and more data that you can
use in your journey as you try and
uncover the truth there's gonna be
segments where I'm gonna be asking you
guys for questions we'll play them live
on the air for the guests to answer and
on top of that there's even a thing
called the vault cam coming your way
what is that you're just gonna have to
stay tuned so thank you all for
listening and we will see you next time
right here on the black
radio
[Music]