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Alternative Futures 2.1
May 28, 2009
3:04 am
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CodeBlack
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Are you suggesting that we herd all Americans into New England? That would suck. Cities, and especially N.E., are filthy, run down, noisy, crime ridden, garbage dumps. Humans don't know how to build cities and humans never take care of anything they own. Community property, which is supposed to be managed by government, is even worse. Most people hate cities. People have a right to spread out.

N2TheBlack

May 28, 2009
5:30 am
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Aquatank
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No I'm not suggesting everyone move to New England that would waste of too many resources. But what I am saying is that every little village to city in the USA can become nearly self sufficient in many of needs and stop being as wasteful. If no one says "Hey this is a better way or looks for a better way then things will stagnate in the status quo. A status quo of stagnation which you seem quite happy to live with Codeblack. Personally, I'm a bit fed up of looking at the world with that attitude, I like looking forward to better alternative futures and trying to achieve and spread the word how to, its more fruitful than complaining about humanity's faults. All that I've been advocating is for the world too stop dragging a travois and start pulling a wheeled wagon.

April 14, 2009
4:17 pm
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Lashmar
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Not to mention the in breeding to get cattle as big as they are.

Read between the lies

April 14, 2009
7:15 pm
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Dark-Samus
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Well yes...but there are also other ways to infect meat...
Like...contamination,water supply, etc etc...

Truth doesn´t control you, you control it...

April 14, 2009
7:58 pm
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Lashmar
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Water supply was already covered.

But we’re on about the way the cattle have lived rather than the slaughter itself (I think that’s what you were on about by ` contamination`.

Read between the lies

June 10, 2009
7:45 pm
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Aquatank
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Okay folks Windpower might have hit its first real snag, which means Geothermal may be the best option until things are worked out. Don't count wind out but keep an eye on the skies.
http://www.charlotteobserver.c.....72690.html

June 11, 2009
1:44 am
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CodeBlack
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😆

N2TheBlack

June 11, 2009
4:37 am
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Aquatank
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Go ahead laugh it up, but I feel its important to bring up shortcomings as much as perks. Just remember a turbine that generates electricity a 3mph is still operating if winds drop to 8 mph. I rather doubt wind will disappear but if does there won't be any weather patterns and thusly you are looking at major droughts. This would mean geothermal energy, hydroponics. and water recycling are imperative. It doesn't change the need to go green only accelerates the need to get off fossil fuels now because if there is no wind that means the pollution stays localized and causes deaths. This has happened before in 1952 London had the worst case of smog in history over a 4 day period 4000-8000 people died from it. http://www.history.com/this-day-in-hist ... e&id=52515

I still support the wind power though because the cost estimates dollars per kwh on the new geothermal techniques aren't as available yet. The trouble is deciding how much of an investmemnt is needed in each and how quickly we can get off fossil fuels to reverse any adverse trends created by them.

April 15, 2009
5:35 am
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Aquatank
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Lashmar
I'm still working on the hydroponics idea, the calculations below let me reduce the building size, but its still an electricity hog. However the size might be more manageable for architectural designs that get real sunlight.

Biosphere 2 had 8 people and 2500 sq Meters (.62 acres/26909.77 sq feet) of agriculture which provided 83% of total diet..
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biosphere_2
So a Four person with hydroponics that would mean a minimum 1250square meters/.31acres/13454.885 sq feet or 116ft.x116ft) for growing. That being said it could be a 3 story building at 58ft x 58ft with two stories of hydroponics requiring 26,909,770 lumen and 5382 t-5 54 watt bulbs requiring 290628 watt hours..

As for the hydroponic meat issue: Few of us kill,skin, bleed, and butcher the animals we eat, generally we only cut up what is in the supermarket, I see no difference in the consumer end of the equation, only in the source end. As an example of the silliness of this, I eat bread comes from a can (B & W Brown Bread) sometimes, why should I prefer a bag? The best current analogy today (and its a bit greasy which hydroponic meat wouldn't be) is spam versus ham. I eat both, but the spam is more likely to be similar in many respects to hydroponic meat, square uniform and the same taste as the original ham.

June 12, 2009
8:46 pm
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CodeBlack
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Well, ironically I live in the windiest state in the US and wind power "works", sort of, here but I still think its a boondoggle. Water conservation/recycling is very do-able though, only a matter of cost. There is more dollars for doughnuts in water recycling than any other green tech. We waste enormous amounts of water, but Bill Clit-on mandating washing machines that don't clean my clothes and B.O. mandating toilets that don't flush the doo-doo down is not helping. Pool waste, yard watering, industrial waste and pollutants like pesticides (home & industry use) in the city water supply greatly increase the cost of treating water which forces us to add more fresh water.

If only America would switch to organics in their yards that would save huge amounts of water. I water much less than my neighbors and my yard looks as good. Typical summer yard watering uses multiples of the amount of water a household normally uses, 1,600-2,000 gallons, without watering, vs. 20,000-35,000 gallons, with watering, a month, on 1/3 acre (~5,000 gallons on my 8,000 ft^2 for 1 inch per week, if it doesn't rain)! And I didn't factor in the lower pollutants thru organics!

The conserving washer and toilet ain't doing squat.

N2TheBlack

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