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What is Right Wrong, Our Laws, and what are Sins?
June 9, 2009
6:59 pm
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Cole_Trickle
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Yeah kind of like walking on the moon in the sixties, walking on water way way before that, and Arabs with box-cutters / well you finally get the open minded end of all that drift, A silver lining in every cloud. Welcome aboard Mate! 😀

Cole

June 14, 2009
11:22 am
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fortwynt
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I will tell you very simply what is sin and what is not.

Not that I am an authority...take from it what you will.

Sin is not a laundry list of items handed down from on high, from a white bearded old angry man ready to whap you on the head with a stick if you dont do as he says.

Sin, my friends, is nothing more than going against logical life principles...even beyond whether or not one wishes to believe in God....these principles go beyond that....they are built into the very structure of the universe and nature itself.

One does not wish to murder, because murder is the selifsh taking of the life of another for reasons that are typically not logical or justify-able (except perhaps in the case of self-defense).......one typically commits murder (except perhaps in the case of self-defense or mental illness) out of a sense of pure selfishness or feelings or vengence...all misguided...

One does not wish to steal, why? Because if one cannot afford a thing or work for a thing, then one does not deserve a thing....one does not take a thing someone else has worked for.

and so on and so on.

Sin, is rooted in selfism, selifishness, or generally speaking holding ones self and ones own value or worth in the universe as higher than another....this is illusion and folly.

I isn't that God has dictated this, so much as it is simply a truth and a logic built in to the very nature of existence....you violate this and you are "sinning" against nature and yourself and your fellow man, ..... and as the bible says....what you doest to the least of these, you do to your very God....and this is very serious and important....because as far as God is concerned we are made is his image...quite literally, what you do to your fellow man, you are doing to your God....or to your Self....you steal, you are stealing from yourself....you kill, and you are killing yourself.

This transcends Christianity, or any other thing...this is simply a truth.

Sin is this....forget all the rest of the mumbo jumbo.

June 14, 2009
6:21 pm
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greeney2
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Sounds like what you are saying is all sins would come under the catagory of "wrongs", therfore anything right can not be considered a sin.( that may conflict with many laws ) People who commit wrongs, and repeat it, seem to have no conscience about it, or have no strong sence that sin or wrongful act, carries with it some kind of punishment. We know laws have defined penalties, and most religions teach there are penalties for most sins to higher authorities. Those we can not escape, becasue we all die, and the concept is afterdeath accountability. Most sins in religions, are not forgiven without Confession, before death. The concept of forgiveness, and wanting to be forgiven is something that may separate all these things. OUr laws only prescribe a penalty, but some forgiveness is also part of the system. True remorse and wanting forgivenesss, must always be with the intentions of redeeming yourself in some way for the wrongs or sin. We forgive for reasons of remorse in the form of probation, with conditions attached. A from of grace and lienancy.

Our system of justice defines its forgiveness of a crime complete when a sentence has been completed, but forgiveness of a Sin is complete upon true Confession. Did a person who died the first day in jail and one who died after 75 years not serve the same "life" sentence? Both carried the same burden of Sin, broke the same law, and both had the same opportunity of Confession the first day. Nobody knows for sure what afterdeath brings, but if our religions are correct, sins do have accountabilty even after we have answered for our laws while alive.

June 14, 2009
8:26 pm
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screamzero
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Whatever you do, just try not to miss the target....which isn't possible w/out a little help.

June 15, 2009
2:16 am
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fortwynt
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I suppose my main point was that there is a difference...a stark one...between "true" sin, and what the "church" deems sin from their laundry list of various things....all sin boils down to very simple concepts.

Does someone who breaks a govt law, sin? I say no, not necessarily....because man's law is not Gods law....true the two may intersect at certain points such as murder, theft, etc...but on other areas I think you aren't necessarily sinning just because you break a human law.

For instance, I think it silly to say certain things are sin...such as, "cursing" (that one is tres ridiculous), drinking, smoking....and a whole host of other things that do not involve how one treats their fellow man....yet in a bid to control personal behavior the church has made these things "sin", and laid the guilt trip on thick.

June 15, 2009
6:10 am
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screamzero
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Blocking yourself from virtue is a sin.

June 15, 2009
7:16 am
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fortwynt
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"screamzero" wrote: Blocking yourself from virtue is a sin.

hmm well, i can mostly agree with that.

June 15, 2009
7:26 pm
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adamwarlock2099
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"fortwynt" wrote: I suppose my main point was that there is a difference...a stark one...between "true" sin, and what the "church" deems sin from their laundry list of various things....all sin boils down to very simple concepts.

Does someone who breaks a govt law, sin? I say no, not necessarily....because man's law is not Gods law....true the two may intersect at certain points such as murder, theft, etc...but on other areas I think you aren't necessarily sinning just because you break a human law.

For instance, I think it silly to say certain things are sin...such as, "cursing" (that one is tres ridiculous), drinking, smoking....and a whole host of other things that do not involve how one treats their fellow man....yet in a bid to control personal behavior the church has made these things "sin", and laid the guilt trip on thick.

You got that right on the nose. And pretty much the whole reason why what man considers sin being irrelevant. If one does believe in a higher being that is watching over us, why does what man says really matter.

So I take it as doing the best that I can to love/take care of my wife and children, as they are my only priorty in life and meet that higher being, if there be one, when the time comes. Cause honestly, everyone wants to say "god" is speaking through them. So rather than sift through all the dirt to find one little speckle of glass, I just ignore it all and deal with it when the time comes.

"That's the problem with drinking ... If something bad happens you drink in attempt to forget; if something good happens you drink in order to celebrate; and if nothing happens you drink to make something happen." -- Charles Bukowski

June 16, 2009
3:31 am
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fortwynt
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I would say you are right, except for one thing...if you are living a life where you are forgiving others, meek in spirit, charitable to those less fortunate than yourself, etc...you are already speaking with the voice of God...it doesnt need to be a profound lightning bolt from heaven...it is far more mundane and simple than that....if you are living right, according to valid and logical spiritual princples, you are already living by the will of God and speaking with the authority of such....

my only problem with what you have said, that i could possibly come up with, is that it is very important to do good unto others, not necessarily just your loved ones....for it is easy enough to love those who love you already....even the wicked can do this....the hard thing is to do good to strangers, and *gasp* those who curse you and despitefully use you....that is the true test of how Godly someone is living.....not what church you go to, or how many hail marys you say, or how nice you dress, or how many bible quotes you can remember, or etc etc etc.....i would say you dont even have to go to church, or even READ the bible, or *gasp* even KNOW about jesus, if one is merely doing unto others as you'd have them do unto you (or more accurately, do NOT unto others as you'd NOT have them do unto you)....then you are already living a pure life.

June 17, 2009
8:03 pm
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adamwarlock2099
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I try to be good to all, yes. It's not that I don't care about others at all, but if someone doesn't like me for some reason, what religion I am or not, that I enjoy alcohol, dated a black woman, whatever, then I am not going to get bent out of shape trying to please them. Some people look to be offended and they thrive on it. It's their spark or their relevance in life. These are the people (like my parents) that have some hope in me that I will turn my life around and "find" god again. The problem is, it's their perception of what they believe god expects out of me, not what god might actually expect out of me. Again, if he even cares.

As far as what you said about living a good life and being good to others as you would want them to do to you, is speaking through god, I guess it's my past dealings with religion that have turned me a bitter person to want to even be associated with god, much less man's religion.

If I do ever change. If. I am more of the line of thought that you said about it's not so much what people see you do, but what you are really doing. It's not about show, it's about what is really in your heart. So if god is watching me, and can forgive my bitterness, and I want him to, then I have a good feeling that I am alright with him.

"That's the problem with drinking ... If something bad happens you drink in attempt to forget; if something good happens you drink in order to celebrate; and if nothing happens you drink to make something happen." -- Charles Bukowski

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