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RIP Christopher Hitchens
December 20, 2011
6:08 pm
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greeney2
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"Here's hoping both of our beliefs are wrong Greeney, and Hitch is somehow able to live on, in a pleasent afterlife"

Both of us wrong? I believe there is God, I already have Hope and I have the Faith you disregard.

Isn't that the point, the hope of something more, that God is real, that God exists. That Faith, the word you can't understand might be a real tangable thing, and all we are given to hang on to. I do not understand your logic of insisting there is no God, but switching to "Yes he does exist", but in a form you are mad at, all the time? The merciful part, you do not believe. Or if you believe in no afterlife, any memorial/honoring would have no purpose, it would only be too late if you believe nothing. You seem to be stuck in the Hope part, with still a schread of Hope it is real. Only a fool gets to the last breathe and still doesn't take it Hoping there is an afterlife, and that God really exists.

Put yourself to the test, with the only thing between "HItch" and really Resting in Peace, is for his friend "Humphrey" to just ask God for it on his behalf? Are you so set in your beliefs, that even you would not privately, with none of us looking in, simply ask God for this, for the sake of him? Maybe consider telling God you hope you are wrong, and take a leap of Faith as they say, because all you may have is the Hope you were herd, and Hope God is merciful. This is just between you and God, a pretty small price to pay for a friend, or God forbid a real loved one.

December 20, 2011
7:39 pm
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humphreys
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Hi, Greeney. I'm not mad at "God", I don't even know exactly what you're referring to when you say "God". For example, your God is quite different from Tom's God, whose is quite different from At1's God.

No two "Gods" are quite the same, so who could I be mad at?

I get mad at times at the concepts of Gods we humans create, and how those concepts are used to cause harm and distress to others, to manipulate, cause guilt, and hold back progress.

If I were truly to hope for anything it is that there is no "God" resembling the fundamentalist view of Christianity or Islam, and that there are not billions suffering in a Hell. Or maybe I'm just being a drama-queen again, as is apparently the new buzzword around here.

Is atheism not more hopeful than an afterlife where billions suffer in eternal torment? Why not put your faith in a Universe where no God is out there waiting to punish you for choosing the wrong set of beliefs?

Put yourself to the test, with the only thing between "HItch" and really Resting in Peace, is for his friend "Humphrey" to just ask God for it on his behalf? Are you so set in your beliefs, that even you would not privately, with none of us looking in, simply ask God for this, for the sake of him?"

This concept of God you're describing now does not resemble the God of any religious texts I know of. If Christianity is true, Hitch is almost certainly in hell, with no chance of reprieve, simple as that.

Should I conjure up my own God, simply for the purpose of deluding myself into a set of beliefs that I find comforting? Isn't that just the epitome of weakness, to admit you can't handle the real world?

Hitchens would be appalled at anyone abusing reason like that.

"All of our behavior can be traced to biological events about which we have no conscious knowledge: this has always suggested that free will is an illusion."

- Sam Harris

December 20, 2011
10:15 pm
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greeney2
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"This concept of God you're describing now does not resemble the God of any religious texts I know of. If Christianity is true, Hitch is almost certainly in hell, with no chance of reprieve, simple as that.

Should I conjure up my own God, simply for the purpose of deluding myself into a set of beliefs that I find comforting? Isn't that just the epitome of weakness, to admit you can't handle the real world?

Hitchens would be appalled at anyone abusing reason like that."
And if was just a simple as you saying a prayer for him, you are unwilling to lower yourself to help him!

If anyone is conjuring up anything it is you. Not a single person said a word about Hell, only you and EH have. Yet you conjure up "no chance of reprieve" making your mind up about God's Grace, and a Merciful God, and how billions of people are in Hell. Its all a fairytale, but you believe the Bad part of God is Real, and Billions are actually in Hell. You do not know what you beleive with your back and forth arguments. The epitome of weakness may be you unwilling to lower yourself into the concept you may be wrong.

"Hi, Greeney. I'm not mad at "God", I don't even know exactly what you're referring to when you say "God". For example, your God is quite different from Tom's God, whose is quite different from At1's God.

No two "Gods" are quite the same, so who could I be mad at?"

Good trick if you can do it, you can't see one God, now you are seeing two! Laugh Sounds like a double vision problem to me, since we all believe there is only one God on this side of the fence. Could have fooled all of us with the "Not mad" part.

December 21, 2011
5:15 am
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event_horizon
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"frrostedman" wrote: EV,

Quit being such a drama queen.

FR,

I think orangutan is rubbing off on you too much with the whole "drama queen" bit. You're being a hypocrite. Both you and greeny have been acting like a couple of the biggest drama queens on the planet....it's like I'm talking to Meryl Streep and Barbra Streisand. Laugh

"frrostedman" wrote: I'll say it again. I am confident. You will see all the evidence for God's existence and then some, eventually.

Just like I have.

You see, I am quite convinced that you are going to be a believer at some point in your life.

Don't say "I'll say it again," because that's not what you said before.

:liar: :liar: :liar:

horizon

 

The mixed breed three-eyed half grey alien half cyclops mutant from a galaxy so far away you can't even get there if you folded space.

December 21, 2011
5:19 am
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event_horizon
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"frrostedman" wrote: Just remember, anything derogatory that an Atheist said in this thread, is "an obvious joke," and to say otherwise is to victimize them. But the Christians on the other hand; anything we say that can be taken out of context to be cruel and hateful, was meant as cruel and hateful and couldn't possibly have been constructed any other way.

The thread was a set up. Hence the disingenuous "R.I.P."

*disclaimer*
Any statements made in this post that could possibly be taken as anything but truthful and positive, should be recognized as an obvious joke. I reserve the right to play the victim card if challenged or held accountable for anything I say.

horizon

 

The mixed breed three-eyed half grey alien half cyclops mutant from a galaxy so far away you can't even get there if you folded space.

December 21, 2011
5:28 am
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event_horizon
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"frrostedman" wrote: The thread was a set up. Hence the disingenuous "R.I.P."

Definition of rest:

1. stopping of work or activity: a state or period of refreshing freedom from exertion
2. sleep: the repose of sleep that is refreshing to body and mind and is marked by a reduction in metabolic activity
3. absence of movement: the cessation of movement or action

http://www.bing.com/search?q=rest+defin ... p=1&sc=5-8

horizon

 

The mixed breed three-eyed half grey alien half cyclops mutant from a galaxy so far away you can't even get there if you folded space.

December 21, 2011
5:31 am
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event_horizon
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"humphreys" wrote: [quote="frrostedman"]You see, I am quite convinced that you are going to be a believer at some point in your life.

Well, since according to the Bible only a miniscule percentage of people will manage to escape a vile hell of an afterlife, I'd like to know how/why you're confident of this?

Unless you mean he'll find out too late, and still end up in hell, in which case, it still sounds like gloating on your part.

Given your beliefs that:

a) A person cannot come to believe in God without his intervention, and at which point, he'll have no choice to believe, and
b) A tiny percentage of people will become believers in time and get to heaven

The odds for him and myself are pretty terrible, yes, given that you are correct?

Basically, either he's a liar, or he's just plain ignorant.

horizon

 

The mixed breed three-eyed half grey alien half cyclops mutant from a galaxy so far away you can't even get there if you folded space.

December 21, 2011
5:36 am
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event_horizon
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"greeney2" wrote: If anyone is conjuring up anything it is you. Not a single person said a word about Hell, only you and EH have.

For the luva whatchamacallit. How many times do I have to tell you? I simply made a remark based on what I saw going on around the Internet. I didn't intend for it to blow up into this huge argument.

Just get over yourself already and accept the fact that there are Christians out there that say these things. And I never said that you're one of them, nor did Humphreys, so give it a rest.

horizon

 

The mixed breed three-eyed half grey alien half cyclops mutant from a galaxy so far away you can't even get there if you folded space.

December 21, 2011
11:38 am
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frrostedman
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"humphreys" wrote: [quote="frrostedman"]You see, I am quite convinced that you are going to be a believer at some point in your life.

Well, since according to the Bible only a miniscule percentage of people will manage to escape a vile hell of an afterlife, I'd like to know how/why you're confident of this?

It's an instinctive confidence I'll admit. Call it a strong hunch. However, the message and history of the bible is consistent in that those who are especially militant against or hateful toward God, are the ones He elected to receive His transforming, irresistable grace.

Unless you mean he'll find out too late, and still end up in hell, in which case, it still sounds like gloating on your part.

First of all, no that is not what I mean. Secondly, I believe you know me better than to gloat in such a manner. If you could point out an instance where I have ever gloated or expressed happiness at the thought of anyone here "burning in hell," then please present that evidence. I would not wish such a thing on even my worst enemy, let alone a complete stranger who I speak to about 3 times a year through internet posts.

Given your beliefs that:

a) A person cannot come to believe in God without his intervention, and at which point, he'll have no choice to believe, and
b) A tiny percentage of people will become believers in time and get to heaven

The odds for him and myself are pretty terrible, yes, given that you are correct?

I don't know how we could possibly come up with any kind of "tiny percentage" but like I said. It's the especially bitter enemies toward God that often end up having been chosen, and as the bible illustrates, God chooses them because of the extra helping of glory He receives in return.

We need look no further than beloved St. Paul who was infinitely worse toward God and Christians than EV ever dreamed of being. And there are many such modern-day examples of prominent people who set out to prove God doesn't exist and ended up believers.

And truth be told, I need look no further than at myself (and someone you'll remember, halfabo, he has a similar story). It's too bad we can't go back to 2003 when I first joined this site and look at the archived posts, but at the time I acted just like EV or worse. I was so bad even a nonbeliever took me to task over it. Can't remember the guy's name. Scientific something or other. I gleefully bashed and humiliated as many Christians as I could.

Every one who is seriously involved in the pursuit of science becomes convinced that a spirit is manifest in the laws of the Universe-a spirit vastly superior to that of man. - Albert Einstein

December 21, 2011
11:47 am
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frrostedman
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"event_horizon" wrote: Just get over yourself already and accept the fact that there are Christians out there that say these things. And I never said that you're one of them, nor did Humphreys, so give it a rest.

I'm with you on this, let's bury the hatchet.

But just for the record, in post #4, humphreys did accuse the Christians on this site of being happy at the thought of Hitchins burning in hell. Of course, afterward, it was shrugged off as a silly joke, but... that doesn't pass the smell test. This thread never started off as a joke, so, if it was an actual joke and I don't believe it was, it was at the very least an untimely one.

Every one who is seriously involved in the pursuit of science becomes convinced that a spirit is manifest in the laws of the Universe-a spirit vastly superior to that of man. - Albert Einstein

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