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Monergism vs Synergism
November 16, 2010
7:38 pm
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humphreys
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I think it's a mistake to use moral relativism to suggest that anything goes, as long as it is accepted within that culture.

Morality can be thought of as something that can be viewed objectively, whilst not actually having an objective existence. We can calculate and form a solid opinion on what the most correct moral behavior using our intellect, and that works very well, but that final judgement is going to inevitably have a subjective element to it which will change based on culture, personality, perception, and so on.

That is certainly a relativistic stance, but it's a far cry from saying that rape is okay. I'm pretty sure it clearly isn't, and I could argue why that's the case quite convincingly, regardless of culture. Same with murder, and child abuse.

There is no actual greatest chess player ever lived, and we cannot make an objective judgement on who that would be, because it is subjective, but that does not mean it is as reasonable, or accurate to say you or I are the greatest ever, as it is to say Bobby Fischer is. We can tackle the problem as best we can objectively using our intellect, but ultimately the final decision is going to be tainted, for lack of a better word, by our own perceptions.

I think that's where the true thinking relativists are coming from, and in that regard, it's not such a ridiculous position at all, in my opinion.

I personally go further than this, though, and think we can extract morality from culture and personal opinion too, and come to a true assessment on what is right and wrong. I think a sufficiently powerful machine could calculate perfect moral behaviour.

"All of our behavior can be traced to biological events about which we have no conscious knowledge: this has always suggested that free will is an illusion."

- Sam Harris

November 16, 2010
8:47 pm
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at1with0
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"humphreys" wrote: is going to be tainted, for lack of a better word, by our own perceptions.

This is, I believe, also true of revelations inspired by "the presence" or whatever you wish to call it. It explains the incongruousness of the OT and NT.

I think it's a blessing that we are "allowed" to taint the information coming through by our perceptions. I know this is not at all what you were talking about; this just occurred to me.

It's a blessing that we have that freedom but people sometimes tend to abuse that freedom by, for example, claiming they know God and begin to oppress others out of some misguided self-righteousness.

Your sentiment is also encapsulated by my current sig: Your focus determines your reality.

"it is easy to grow crazy"

November 17, 2010
8:08 am
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sandra
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"at1with0" wrote:
It's a blessing that we have that freedom but people sometimes tend to abuse that freedom by, for example, claiming they know God and begin to oppress others out of some misguided self-righteousness.

lmao. It is also oppressive to try and maintain a level of delusion, a level of uncertainty,
of not knowing with certainty anything....and to support only those angled perceptions, out of self-righteousness. You many times are subtle in trying to create a dam, your subtle insinuations and points in time of messages are always noted. You would much rather people have alot more
uncertainty concerning the truth of the word of God and CHRIST in specific. And whats great,
you think you are slightly skilled at such attempts. What does someone like you know about the oppression of others? Let me tell you what you don't know enough about.

"But other fell into good ground, and brought forth fruit, some an hundredfold, some sixtyfold, some thirtyfold."

You would much rather make a larger cup for yourself than to share with others?

I sometimes act like I know people better than they know themselves?
Maybe I make an effort to try and really get to know people while I am both bad and good
myself. You hold a persona as though your ideas are opinions yet you nail them in, many times
believing inside that you are without a doubt right. Grow up a little. Maybe work on caring less about how people are going to perceive the truth of how you feel.

“Living backwards!” Alice repeated in great
astonishment. “I never heard of such a thing!”
“—but there’s one great advantage in it, that one’s
memory works both ways.”
— Lewis Carroll, Through the Looking-Glass

November 17, 2010
8:41 am
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sandra
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"frrostedman" wrote: [quote="sandra"]Within the theological arguement of synergism VS monergism
there is only a misunderstanding of Gods will to accept one
VS the other.

I disagree. You said many things very supportive of Monergism and you just did again. I am pleasantly surprised by your comments and I welcome them. And I did read them!

I stand by those words, the conflict is in confusion of Gods will,
to accept one vs the other. Explain why that is not true?

No, I can't explain why that is not true because I believe it is true.

I think it's semantics biting us in the rear again. The conflict I am referencing is the conflict between people and their beliefs. We can't all be right, that's relativism. When 2 parties say opposing and mutually exclusive things, only 1 party can be right, or both wrong; but not both right.

Right? 😀

Things change all the time I suppose. The whole semantics deal, who knows.
Maybe I was harsh, yeah, sometimes that is in my nature. People think at times I am all about sugar, those are assumptions that have been made because of my belief in God being Love. My perceptions of Love are not what others have thought, just as my perceptions of kindness and compassion and consideration and understanding are defined through my own internalizations and experiences. The more we learn and the more we obtain informations, sometimes
the harder it can become to find revision even if we actively search for it. I'm not much of an IMO type person. Christ favors more than opinions. So if I come off terribly rude at times, I'm being myself and what you see for the most of it is me being me. Nothing I find much time
to regret, but to learn, change, and grow.

“Living backwards!” Alice repeated in great
astonishment. “I never heard of such a thing!”
“—but there’s one great advantage in it, that one’s
memory works both ways.”
— Lewis Carroll, Through the Looking-Glass

November 17, 2010
5:10 pm
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at1with0
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"sandra" wrote: [quote="at1with0"]
It's a blessing that we have that freedom but people sometimes tend to abuse that freedom by, for example, claiming they know God and begin to oppress others out of some misguided self-righteousness.

lmao. It is also oppressive to try and maintain a level of delusion, a level of uncertainty,
of not knowing with certainty anything....and to support only those angled perceptions, out of self-righteousness. You many times are subtle in trying to create a dam, your subtle insinuations and points in time of messages are always noted. You would much rather people have alot more
uncertainty concerning the truth of the word of God and CHRIST in specific. And whats great,
you think you are slightly skilled at such attempts. What does someone like you know about the oppression of others? Let me tell you what you don't know enough about.

"But other fell into good ground, and brought forth fruit, some an hundredfold, some sixtyfold, some thirtyfold."

You would much rather make a larger cup for yourself than to share with others?

I sometimes act like I know people better than they know themselves?
Maybe I make an effort to try and really get to know people while I am both bad and good
myself. You hold a persona as though your ideas are opinions yet you nail them in, many times
believing inside that you are without a doubt right. Grow up a little. Maybe work on caring less about how people are going to perceive the truth of how you feel.

I was talking about something like how Muslim women are oppressed.

But neither will I let you or any Christian oppress me with your beliefs about the word of God and CHRIST; I will continue to think for myself.

"it is easy to grow crazy"

November 17, 2010
6:06 pm
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sandra
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Well there is more to it but I would not have expected a different response considering the awareness you are working with.

“Living backwards!” Alice repeated in great
astonishment. “I never heard of such a thing!”
“—but there’s one great advantage in it, that one’s
memory works both ways.”
— Lewis Carroll, Through the Looking-Glass

November 29, 2010
4:17 pm
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at1with0
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As far as your awareness of my awareness goes. 😎

"it is easy to grow crazy"

December 4, 2010
9:23 pm
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sandra
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"at1with0" wrote: As far as your awareness of my awareness goes. 😎

Oh so I see you believe you are aware of how far that goes. Laugh

“Living backwards!” Alice repeated in great
astonishment. “I never heard of such a thing!”
“—but there’s one great advantage in it, that one’s
memory works both ways.”
— Lewis Carroll, Through the Looking-Glass

December 4, 2010
9:27 pm
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at1with0
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I wouldn't want to assume anything.

"it is easy to grow crazy"

December 4, 2010
10:14 pm
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sandra
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"at1with0" wrote: I wouldn't want to assume anything.

Have you ever held a perception of yourself for much longer than
needed? Have you ever realized that those same perceptions
of yourself were projected onto others and possibly kept
a little longer than needed just the same? And have you ever
thought that those thoughts kept things in a certain
time and place for yourself and for the others you thought of??
What about the others in your life that are not aware of themselves
in as much as you are of yourself? Where does their sense of change
come from? Their sense of trusting themselves, of loving themselves,
accepting themselves. Do you make enough assumptions?
Or are you a bit wreckless in your inability to accept responsibility
for your differences. If some people don't it does them no favors
and it does no favors for the others around them. Confusion and chaos
has free roaming in negligence. It is ok to float in outer spaces
and realms but what strength and goodness is there in living
in two different worlds. Your burdens are not for everyone, however
we have to share some of our inner imaginings and perceptions with people
in our lives without fear of rejection, of humiliation, or even of understanding.
Because there are no shortcuts around these things. We don't just internalize
everything and one day everyone understands us and accepts us.
It is a merging, a gradual merging of realities and creation.
But for some of us in our home lives and daily life to live
in conflict with our own reality to everyone elses because
we can't be ourselves is selfishness and misunderstanding of
our own life and others. Even the deepest things of our heart
and mind is shared through the most simplest of conversations.
Its all omnipotent. However many people first go through a
process of trust acknowledgement acceptance and all that shit
of self realizations and interactions as they connect
first from the vulnerable realms of intuitive sharing etc etc etc. That help build a new foundation. So as some people keep everything to themselves, what they
share omnipotently with others is that they keep everything to themselves.
They have little ability to be there for others and they barracade the things
that are meant to live the most, stalling time as life around them moves on
is not good for the mind nor for the health. See alot of that out there.

Communicating and sharing with people
does not need to be more complicated than alot of us make it.
Including myself of course, absolutely. All in all, what a say to people
is nothing more or less than sharing my thoughts, taking care and
consideration for my own sanity.

“Living backwards!” Alice repeated in great
astonishment. “I never heard of such a thing!”
“—but there’s one great advantage in it, that one’s
memory works both ways.”
— Lewis Carroll, Through the Looking-Glass

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