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Monergism vs Synergism
November 14, 2010
9:08 pm
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qmark
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I believe there are more scriptures in the New Testament that agree with synergism than monergism. I believe we have been down this road before so, at this point in time, I choose to wait on the Lord for wisdom concerning this issue before I commit myself to either camp. The one thing I do know is this, Jesus Christ is Lord.

November 14, 2010
10:13 pm
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John 5:24 KJV.

Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

John 5"25 KJV

Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live.

Much of what is quoted out of the Word is what is called reference texts. Reference texts can be made to read many things and are more in line with the synergism points.

Proof texts are more difficult to wiggle out of in that they definitely lock down doctrine.

There are not that many proof texts in the Word and they are avoided by many teaching and preaching Humanism and Humanistic doctrines so popular in many Churches today. And Synergism is very popular with the Humanistic approach.

In John 5:24 the word used is "hath" meaning already has everlasting Life .... and shall not come into condemnation ..is passed from death unto Life. Many of the new versions read...gets...as in future..application. Not already has everlasting life but gets everlasting life.

The usage of the word Verily Verily in the opening of these two passages is a good indicator that these are proof texts verses reference texts.

In 5:25 the Word is speaking of the spiritually dead being able to hear the Word of God and they that hear shall live.

And this is done by Gods will and For His purposes. They are Awakened unto Him and for His purposes. There is no implication here of Synergism in these passages.

Same thing in Ephesians 2:8,9.

2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

And even going back to Ephesians 2 at the begining in verse 1, It is God who Quickens..not us..not we ourselves. The passages read...you whom he hath quickened. For we are His workmanship..not our workmanship. Monogism.

Just as Saul/Paul was taken on Damascus road..by the will of God. And Saul/Paul is most certainly the last person anyone in the flesh would believe to have been converted. And Paul was not converted or Awakened by synergism.

Thanks,
Orangetom

November 15, 2010
8:18 am
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sandra
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There is such a thing as irresistible grace.

There is such a thing as Gods spirit being in us, of us.

There is such a thing as Chosen people by God.

Through Gods Spirit what is not Chosen?

I suppose what is not of Love, God will not Choose, because
what God chooses and what his spirit chooses is what grows
and flourishes within us and outside of us, around us.

Chosen people do choose, and it is by the grace of God,
that no man should boast of self. Still sovereign and living
in us and through us.

"God singular does the choosing"???

Please get out of that crap hole.

Some of these concepts you guys are discussing are very
correct and real of course, however I do not read through things
and miss the personal points that are bagged along with them,
the personal truth in how these things are applyed
and lived by.

Orangetom, alot of what you always state goes fairly hand in hand
with scriptures words. Although when you look alot closer it appears
you continue to say "oh not me" "oh not you" -
I'm not reading alot about this sovereign grace, more
like foreign grace.

And qmarks honesty is admirable on this subject, as I see
others have ideas set in stone that is not stone whatsoever.

“Living backwards!” Alice repeated in great
astonishment. “I never heard of such a thing!”
“—but there’s one great advantage in it, that one’s
memory works both ways.”
— Lewis Carroll, Through the Looking-Glass

November 15, 2010
7:15 pm
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sandra
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8:15 When they arrived, they prayed for them that they might receive the
Holy Spirit,

10:44 While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit came on
all who heard the message.

47 "Can anyone keep these people from being baptized with water? They have
received the Holy Spirit just as we have."

Same as when Christ breaths upon them and they receive the holy spirit, I have
asked the question - was there a choice in the matter that they should receive it
or not?........grace is a part of that. A part of ourselves in what others choose.
Who was Chirst that his spirit should not be mirrored back, that the spirit of God
should not overcome and replace....with no conflict?

How much does grace move people...

There will be more grace soon here on earth than ever before.
A gratitude and a storm of it is building, by God through Christ
and his body - the chosen are rising.

And yes, a one spirit creation.

How sovereign are we from Gods grace is a better question.

Irresistible grace is a wild fire. A charisma out of control of
self, incapable of not serving the divine self of others
in accordance with the will of God. Unstoppable by the will of self.
All thanks be to God.

“Living backwards!” Alice repeated in great
astonishment. “I never heard of such a thing!”
“—but there’s one great advantage in it, that one’s
memory works both ways.”
— Lewis Carroll, Through the Looking-Glass

November 15, 2010
8:27 pm
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sandra
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"frrostedman" wrote: I've approached this subject many times. All but about 2 of us Christians here believe salvation is a Synergistic work. I and 1 other if I'm not mistaken, believe salvation is a Monergistic work.

This is not truthful.
There is not a conflict of monergism vs synergism.
In Gods Grace what does not cooperate?
The self will does not cooperate, but the will of God
inside of us cooperates. The differences seen are that
of the will of God cooperating with the will of God
VS the will of self cooperating with the will of God
for salvation. The will of self is not saved.

God and individuals cooperating for salvation VS

Spiritual regeration without the cooperation of SELF

In synergism it is not the self will.

Irresistible grace cooperates with the will of God
for all.

Within the theological arguement of synergism VS monergism
there is only a misunderstanding of Gods will to accept one
VS the other.

“Living backwards!” Alice repeated in great
astonishment. “I never heard of such a thing!”
“—but there’s one great advantage in it, that one’s
memory works both ways.”
— Lewis Carroll, Through the Looking-Glass

November 15, 2010
8:42 pm
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sandra
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34 “Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world. 35 For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, 36 I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.’

37 “Then the righteous will answer him, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? 38 When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? 39 When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?’

40 “The King will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers and sisters of mine, you did for me.’

41 “Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. 42 For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, 43 I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.’

44 “They also will answer, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?’

45 “He will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.’

46 “Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.”

------------

Christ always wants to come alive inside of us and to live in all others more fruitfully,
It is not the cooperation of our own will that Gods grace minds itself with.
It is the cooperation of the life of Christ that is inside of us and inevitable
to grow and be nourished by an even greater abundance of this living spirit.

This above passage from scripture I would like someday to find some people
that understand it for what it is.

“Living backwards!” Alice repeated in great
astonishment. “I never heard of such a thing!”
“—but there’s one great advantage in it, that one’s
memory works both ways.”
— Lewis Carroll, Through the Looking-Glass

November 15, 2010
9:01 pm
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sandra
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More words that could be used to desribe Gods Grace is
an elucidating energy that expatiates. Or in other words,
pure clarity that wanders freely.

“Living backwards!” Alice repeated in great
astonishment. “I never heard of such a thing!”
“—but there’s one great advantage in it, that one’s
memory works both ways.”
— Lewis Carroll, Through the Looking-Glass

November 15, 2010
10:00 pm
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sandra
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What do we provide to the internal lives of others and in return
enriching the external realities of Life through Christ - if you think
for one second that you are chosen and yet you cannot
come up with a few ideas of what you have been giving to
others lives around you - I would question what you know
about grace and the workings of Gods will. Christ is not
some foreign entity that comes upon you for only you
and yet to remain sovereign in him, unless sovereign is
being defined as sovereignty in Love that is a part
of others as well. Sovereignty is not being defined
from the right perspectives when the Spirit of God is
in us all, and Love.

“Living backwards!” Alice repeated in great
astonishment. “I never heard of such a thing!”
“—but there’s one great advantage in it, that one’s
memory works both ways.”
— Lewis Carroll, Through the Looking-Glass

November 15, 2010
10:34 pm
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frrostedman
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"sandra" wrote: You two have little clue what the hell grace is to begin with.
Hardly a clue.

That was a little harsh. 🙁

"frrostedman" wrote: [quote="sandra"]I've approached this subject many times. All but about 2 of us Christians here believe salvation is a Synergistic work. I and 1 other if I'm not mistaken, believe salvation is a Monergistic work.

This is not truthful.

It sounds like you're saying I lied?

"sandra" wrote: There is not a conflict of monergism vs synergism.

The Monergism vs Synergism discussion involves grace, election, predestination, and free will. These subjects of debate are the most hotly contested in all the Christian Church today. So I have to disagree with you on that one.

Every one who is seriously involved in the pursuit of science becomes convinced that a spirit is manifest in the laws of the Universe-a spirit vastly superior to that of man. - Albert Einstein

November 15, 2010
11:06 pm
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sandra
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Then let it help you rethink the worth of your
experiences, because they deserve more credibility.
What kind of worth does gods grace have....what kind
of room do we give it to live in our lives and in others
while we are a part of it. Take a leap here Tom and
not be offended, but rather look again at what I have
shared in this thread. I know the worth of what I have
shared and how far it will go. That is something for
me to be thankful for and not to feel sorry for.
There is nothing to feel bad about. Not for you,
not for me, not for anyone. It all is what it is.

“Living backwards!” Alice repeated in great
astonishment. “I never heard of such a thing!”
“—but there’s one great advantage in it, that one’s
memory works both ways.”
— Lewis Carroll, Through the Looking-Glass

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