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Interesting sidelight about 501 c 3 tax status ..
November 5, 2014
12:51 am
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greeney2
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No, I do not see a double standard at all, I can not be any clearer about what I think about immunity.

November 5, 2014
4:37 pm
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"greeney2" wrote: No, I do not see a double standard at all, I can not be any clearer about what I think about immunity.

I see a double standard big time. Control and censorship of public opinion by government through threatening tax status...by loss of price support..tax subsidies.

You cannot possibly have separation of Church and State with such an system. You can however..have the "appearance" of Separation of Church and State.

There were two places before the American Revolution where thoughts and Ideas were freely exchanged in this nation...In the Pubs and from the Pulpits.

The Whole Council of God is a Definite Threat to Humanistic Atheist Luciferian devotees. ..under another religion and another god. It is clear to me that they will brook no competition on their pet issues. And they are quite zealous about it...devoted. That much is clear to me. They are against the Whole Council of God and for their god...and by any means.

In the future ...the taxing power is one of the major means of PC control..and once again you will not have Separation of Church and State. It is nothing to me but a concealed manner of State Control of the Churches.

A Talmudic controlled , concealed, esoteric way of Censorship.

With this election yesterday..I see little changing here...under this current political situation..only more of the same old same olde. More censorship...more PC.

The most PC, zealous, devout religious censorship under the new religion taking place here in American..is going to be Atheism and Homosexuality...even under this so called Republican Win. Nothing will change here..only wax worse.
These two causes are tied at the hip in a manner most cannot grasp or possibly fathom. I think events will prove this out in time.

Gotta make haste now ..lots to get done today.

Thanks to all for their posts,
Orangetom

November 6, 2014
2:23 am
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greeney2
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Atheist and Homosexual activist groups, are not allowed to use 501C tax laws for exemptions, but your church can. They have no tax exemptions, and your church does. You think you are oppressed over the Whole council of God, and they think they are oppressed by religious organizations that discriminate against them. Your Church can be exempt from taxes why isn't that the double standard, since they also have the same Constitutional rights as you and your church and members to believe in whatever they want to?

November 10, 2014
7:28 pm
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"greeney2" wrote: Atheist and Homosexual activist groups, are not allowed to use 501C tax laws for exemptions, but your church can. They have no tax exemptions, and your church does. You think you are oppressed over the Whole council of God, and they think they are oppressed by religious organizations that discriminate against them. Your Church can be exempt from taxes why isn't that the double standard, since they also have the same Constitutional rights as you and your church and members to believe in whatever they want to?

All the more reason for the government to drop the 501c 3 tax status for churches. The Atheists as well as the Homosexual groups obviously have a devout and zealous position which they guard as their holy of holies...their religion.
To equal this field out...the churches need to have the government drop their tax number as well as their tax exempt status in favor or tax immunity..or no government control or regulation..much like the Amish. Or they can so do themselves...by reversing the process.

I don t think most churches will do this..to profitable for them verses teaching and preaching the Whole Council of God.

This is not a proper quote but it is Humanism of today..ie...PC cover up. It only "appears" reasonable and logical.

Your Church can be exempt from taxes why isn't that the double standard, since they also have the same Constitutional rights as you and your church and members to believe in whatever they want to?

The idea in the Word is to separate..come out from amongst them and be ye separate...to live according to God's Word. His Anchor. Not according to PC which changes like the winds.

The idea here is not to be exempt from taxes Greeny2...but to be immune from government interference. To live accoriding to God's Word..not according to changing humanistic winds.

For some reason you seem unable to distinguish between the two and are want to overlap them.

Thannks,
Orangetom

November 12, 2014
6:19 am
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Nesaie
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I have to agree with Orange here.

I'm not a fan of the irs in the first place. Then, when you read the letters between Madison and Jefferson it's like the Recess commercials. Madison didn't want the politics to get mixed with his religion. Jefferson didn't want the religion mixed in with his politics. You got your religion mixed with my politics (peanut butter/chocolate)...No! You got your politics mixed with my religion (chocolate/peanut butter).

I have considered going back to the beginnings, when the original Jesus followers gathered together and met in houses and discussed what they believed he said. No irs, totally open interpritation, etc.

Why not? Get small groups of people together and teach each other from All the available books....and talk of God?

Such a society would be dominated by an elite, unrestrained by traditional values. Soon it will be possible to assert almost continuous surveillance over every citizen... - Zbigniew Brezhinsky

November 12, 2014
6:26 am
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Nesaie
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What is that other thingy? "When ever three or more are gathered in my name"?

Who need church?

Such a society would be dominated by an elite, unrestrained by traditional values. Soon it will be possible to assert almost continuous surveillance over every citizen... - Zbigniew Brezhinsky

November 14, 2014
6:15 pm
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greeney2
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If the US Supreme Court ruled in favor of the Westborrow Baptists for protesting fallen war soldiers funerals as retribution for gay lifestyles, your church is not oppressed by having to verify income and expenses to qualify for a simple tax exemption. The entire issue is a non-issue, blown into something it is not, and ridiculous. Churches are not required to be 501C non-profits it is optional. If you do, it has rules, and the rules apply to over 6 different categories, churches are only one of them. Have either of you read them?

November 17, 2014
12:46 am
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gudskepteacal
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"greeney2" wrote: Atheist and Homosexual activist groups, are not allowed to use 501C tax laws for exemptions, but your church can. They have no tax exemptions, and your church does. You think you are oppressed over the Whole council of God, and they think they are oppressed by religious organizations that discriminate against them. Your Church can be exempt from taxes why isn't that the double standard, since they also have the same Constitutional rights as you and your church and members to believe in whatever they want to?

I don't think that's completely accurate, greeney. Consider this...

"On December 12, 2012, American Atheists and two co-plaintiffs filed a lawsuit in U.S. District Court in the Eastern District of Kentucky demanding that the Internal Revenue Service (IRS) stop giving preferential treatment to churches and religious organizations via the process of receiving non-profit tax-exempt status under the Internal Revue Code (IRC) procedures and definitions.IRS

Groups like American Atheists receive tax-exempt status under Internal Revenue Code 501(c)(3) but, because the organization is not classified as religious, it costs American Atheists and other secular non-profits significantly more money each year to maintain that status. In this lawsuit, American atheists and the other plaintiffs are demanding that all tax-exempt organizations, including those characterized as religious by the IRS, have the same requirements to achieve and maintain tax-exempt status.

In order to qualify for nonprofit tax-exempt status, any religious or secular organization must demonstrate it exists to benefit the public. After that basic element is established, religious non-profits are almost always declared automatically tax-exempt under the current IRC rules and definitions. However, secular non-profits face a lengthy application and a fee, which can be as high as $850. "...

Keep Reading: http://atheists.org/legal/current/IRS

So, although atheist and gay/lesbian organizations are able to receive tax exempt status, because they aren't classified as 'religious', they must endure a more costly and stringent process to get and keep it. Orangetom cites the recent case in Houston of city govt. overreaching into church affairs to enforce the political endorsement restriction placed on churches with 501c3 status. Since the restriction involves the endorsement of a particular candidate or campaign and the churches were only advocating against a new transgender restroom ordinance, the ptb in Houston realized they had 'stepped in it' and quickly walked it back. As with the SCOTUS decision in the Hobby Lobby case, religious freedom won. I just don't see the impediment to preaching the 'Whole Counsel of God' that orangetom talks about. The Bible doesn't say anything about endorsing a particular political candidate and church members are surely able to make up their own minds about who to endorse and vote for if they have taken to heart The Word of God. I'm still with greeney on this; it's not perfect but it's the system we have and I think it reinforces the separation of church and state. To set any group or organization that makes large amounts of money over others by not even requiring they register with the federal department that regulates the taxes paid(or not paid) on large sums of money is to do more than just give the appearance of preferential treatment. Without some kind of oversight the opportunity for massive fraud and exploitation seems obvious and who would make the determination of which church actually gets to be a 'church' anyway.

http://www.guidestar.org/organizations/ ... enter.aspx

"History records that the money changers have used every form of abuse, intrigue, deceit, and violent means possible to maintain their control over governments by controlling money and its issuance." - James Madison

November 17, 2014
3:51 am
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greeney2
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Read this, you decide what it means, I think it means one thing, maybe others see it differently. I think it is crystal clear, it also applies to 8 different kinds of categories, religion is only one of them. The law is clear about limiting all of them with regard to political agendas. I belong to a very small Rock, Gem and Mineral society, and those rules for us are no different than the biggest Mega Churches in the country, concerning political activism. None of that has a thing to do with the sermons given on the pulpit, it has to do with activism, lobbying, and political involvement, and a certain amount is allowed, not 100% restricted.

As far as Atheists that are filing federal suits, they are clearly out to make a total farce out of our laws, and if they had their way, would eliminate every religion in the country on the grounds they are discriminated against.

http://www.ehow.com/list_6743296_requir ... 01c3_.html

November 17, 2014
6:04 am
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gudskepteacal
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Very clarifying, greeney, thanks. So they all have this lobbying expenditure ceiling restriction also. When applied to the Houston case, that means they are willing to bean count an infraction against the churches because they can't directly silence the message? That's not exactly reaffirming for our side of this debate.

"History records that the money changers have used every form of abuse, intrigue, deceit, and violent means possible to maintain their control over governments by controlling money and its issuance." - James Madison

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