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God Is Imaginary: Try Praying Statistically Analyze Prayer
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at1with0
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April 19, 2012 - 11:11 pm
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"frrostedman" wrote: [quote="event_horizon"]Awww gimmie f'n break. You can't handle the truth.

You call this stuff "hostile nature and verbal assaults?" Laugh Your drama queenliness never ceases to amaze me. Laugh

You can be more sensitive than the most sensitive woman I know sometimes. Embarassed

You'd make the perfect Progressive Liberal. You can't argue a point using actual facts and logical deductions. The only tool you have in your briefcase is to close your ears to anything anyone else says, and spew hatred and lies. The only hope you have to score any points in debate is to drag the other one down to your level where you can heap the blame on them... for being like you.

It's pitiful.

lmao

"it is easy to grow crazy"

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event_horizon
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April 20, 2012 - 12:00 am
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"Sleepwalk" wrote: But I see what the other posters are talking about regarding your behavior.

So you agree with the other believers about what they think about an atheist? Who woulda thunk it. :Doh:

"Sleepwalk" wrote: You seem to be filled with a lot of anger.

Ah...the ol' "atheists are angry/bitter card." Could you please quote me where you think I'm "angry" in here, so I can at least see what the heck you're on about?...because the last time I checked I was quite happy, and still am.

"Sleepwalk" wrote: Even if your arguments were rational and well-informed, you're not going to pursuade anybody with the tone you're using.

Frrostedman is beyond all hope. Attempting to persuade him is futile. Trust me...we've been at it for years. The only thing left to do is laugh.

"Sleepwalk" wrote: In your defense though, you seem to be more interested in hurting people for pleasure than irenic and substantive discussion.

Oh well, the truth hurts -- I can't help that. Do I do it for pleasure? Nah. Although a lot of things I read from some believers make me laugh -- which naturally releases endorphins, which brings pleasure.

horizon

 

The mixed breed three-eyed half grey alien half cyclops mutant from a galaxy so far away you can't even get there if you folded space.

 

Interdimensional Renegade

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event_horizon
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March 10, 2012 - 5:28 am
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Proof #2 - Statistically Analyze Prayer

The fact is, God never answers any prayers. The entire idea that "God answers prayers" is an illusion created by human imagination (http://godisimaginary.com/i7.htm).

How do we know that "answered prayers" are illusions? We simply perform scientific experiments. We ask a group of believers to pray for something and then we watch what happens. What we find, whenever we test the efficacy of prayer scientifically, is that prayer has zero effect:

- It does not matter who prays.
- It does not matter if we pray to God, Allah, Vishnu, Zeus, Ra or any other human god.
- It does not matter what we pray about.

If we perform scientific, double-blind tests on prayer, and if the prayers involve something concrete and measurable (for example, healing people with cancer), we know that there is zero effect from prayer. Every single "answered prayer" is nothing more than a coincidence. Both scientific experiments and your everyday observations of the world show this to be the case every single time.

For example, this article says:

One of the most scientifically rigorous studies yet, published earlier this month, found that the prayers of a distant congregation did not reduce the major complications or death rate in patients hospitalized for heart treatments.

And:

A review of 17 past studies of ''distant healing," published in 2003 by a British researcher, found no significant effect for prayer or other healing methods.

This article from March, 2006 discusses the fact that the same conclusion was reached in another study:

In the largest study of its kind, researchers found that having people pray for heart bypass surgery patients had no effect on their recovery. In fact, patients who knew they were being prayed for had a slightly higher rate of complications.

In this article we find an amazing quote where theologians (http://godisimaginary.com/i32.htm) and religious leaders declare that prayer has no actual effect:

Religious leaders will breathe a sigh of relief at the news that so-called intercessory prayer is medically ineffective. In a large and much touted scientific study, one group of patients was told that strangers would pray for them, a second group was told strangers might or might not pray for them, and a third group was not prayed for at all. The $2.4 million study found that the strangers' prayers did not help patients' recovery.

This is a remarkable example of "positive spin" -- religious leaders are "breathing a sigh of relief" because prayer has been shown to be meaningless. The fact that prayer is a total waste of time does not matter to them. It does not matter that all of Jesus' promises about prayer in the Bible have been proven completely false.

A peer-reviewed scientific study published in 2001 did indicate that prayer works. According to this article:

"On October 2, 2001, the New York Times reported that researchers at prestigious Columbia University Medical Center in New York had discovered something quite extraordinary. Using virtually foolproof scientific methods the researchers had demonstrated that infertile women who were prayed for by Christian prayer groups became pregnant twice as often as those who did not have people praying for them. The study was published in the Journal of Reproductive Medicine. Even the researchers were shocked. The study's results could only be described as miraculous."

This study was later proven to be completely fraudulent. However, everyone who cut out the original article in the NYTimes and posted it on their refrigerators still has that article as "proof" that prayer works.

This article entitled A prayer before dying (http://www.wired.com/wired/arc.....rayer.html) uncovers another case where a "scientific study" of prayer is unmasked as fraudulent.

It's not just prayer that is ineffective. Not even a hopeful attitude helps. According to this article (http://www.usatoday.com/news/health/200 ... ncer_x.htm):

A positive attitude does not improve the chances of surviving cancer and doctors who encourage patients to keep up hope may be burdening them, according to the results of research released Monday.

The dictionary defines the word "superstition" in this way:

An irrational belief that an object, action, or circumstance not logically related to a course of events influences its outcome. [ref: http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/superstition]

The belief in prayer is a superstition. It has been proven scientifically over and over again. When a prayer appears to be answered, it is a coincidence. Quite simply, prayer has absolutely no effect on the outcome of any event. The "power of prayer" is actually "the power of coincidence."

Therefore, as in Proof #1, one of two things must be happening:

- God is imaginary.
- God does exist, but he never answers prayers. Unfortunately, God is defined by the Bible to be a prayer-answering being. The contradiction between the reality of God and the definition of God proves that God is imaginary.

Prayer does not work because God is completely imaginary.

Understanding the Rationalizations

You can find many believers who will say, "The reason why scientific experiments fail to detect God is because God must remain hidden. He does not answer prayers if he knows that he will be detected."

In order to see the truth, you need to accept that this explanation is silly. If God must remain hidden, then he cannot answer any prayers. Any "answered prayer" would expose God.

The whole notion that "God" must remain "hidden" is a total cross-threading of religious doctrine. On the one hand, believers will say that "God wrote the Bible, God incarnated himself and died on the cross for us, and God answers millions of prayers on earth every day." Then in the next breath they will say, "God must remain hidden." God obviously cannot "remain hidden" and "incarnate himself." These two items are mutually exclusive. Therefore, the explanation that "God must remain hidden" is impossible. As soon as you accept how impossible it is, you can begin to see see that God is imaginary.

In order to see the truth, you need to accept the fact that the scientific evidence is accurate and irrefutable. We have scientifically proven that God does not answer any prayers on earth. Every single "answered prayer" is nothing more than a coincidence.

We can see reality by looking at a simple example. Imagine that the rate of remission for some particularly nasty type of cancer is 5%. That means that if 20 people get this type of cancer, it is almost always fatal. Only one in twenty of the people who get the disease will survive. Knowing this, you can see what happens if we actually analyze prayer:

- 20 believers contract the disease
- All of them have read James 5:15, so all of them pray.
- 19 of them die
- The one who lives proclaims, "I prayed to the Lord and the Lord answered my prayers! My disease is cured! It is a miracle! I KNEW God would answer my prayers!"
- You never hear about the 19 who died. No one ever writes about them in a magazine. "Person prays, then dies" is not a great headline. And since they are dead, you will never hear from any of these people.
- Therefore, if you don't look at all the facts around the "answered prayer," and you only hear about the one out of twenty prayers that succeed, it appears that prayer is successful.

The fact is, believers who pray die from this disease at exactly the same rate as people who do not.

We can see the reality of this situation simply by opening our eyes and looking at the data. But we do have to open our eyes -- We have to look at both the successes AND the failures of prayer to see the reality of our world. When we take a scientific approach and we do look at both sides, we see what is really happening. God does not answer any prayers because God is imaginary.

horizon

 

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Interdimensional Renegade

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March 10, 2012 - 7:58 am
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wow..sounds like someone is a little angry?

Fact is that many who have prayed have been cured of cancer. Look up the statistics.

Many prayers have been answered, and some not.

I will tell you this though, if you are going to pray thinking that He'll never answer it, you guess will probable come true.

I dare you to go spurt all these words at someone who has been cured of cancer , through prayer.

Yes, they do exist.

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frrostedman
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March 10, 2012 - 8:17 am
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"OraProNobis" wrote: wow..sounds like someone is a little angry?

The bitterness is a consistent theme. And we know the source of it.

It's striking, isn't it. If someone didn't have a shred of belief, there would be no bitterness and anger. Just like I don't believe in the tooth fairy, but I'm not bitter and angry about it.

The bitterness and anger (apart from it's actual source) comes about when someone meditates on the possibility of the heavenly Father really existing, and is disgusted by it and doesn't want it to be true. That's something completely different than simple disbelief. It's personal, emotional, and heart-felt.

I remember when I was in an unregenerate state. I literally hated the idea of God. I wasn't satisfied with just not believing. No, I wanted to cut every Christian I came across, down to size. I enjoyed ridiculing the faithful and trying to tear down their faith. I did the same things you see here. Funny, I remember wanting to construct arguments that would tear down the faithful, but I knew if I was going to do it right, I was going to need to read the bible. But everytime I picked it up, after about 2 minutes, I would get confused, bored, and even more angry, and close the book and give up. It was as if I was trying to read Chinese or something. Very frustrating. Oh yeah, so then later I found out that someone at work had a series on the bible on cassette. RC Sproul's "Dust to Glory." I asked if I could borrow it. The Christian graciously lent it to me thinking I was searching for inspiration and truth. Not close. My intent was to record the cassettes on my own blanks that I bought, so I could commit all the information to memory. That way I could learn about the bible without having to read it! And I recorded several cassettes. Then I went to listen to my newly recorded ones. Guess what. Every single one of them sounded like gibberish!!! I'm not kidding... the voice was all muffled and slow, then fast, then slow again... and could not be understood at all! Ha. And no, it wasn't copy protection because if you remember cassettes, the only copy protection they had was tabs you could break off, which would prevent recording from working at all. And so strange because after that, I put other cassettes in and used the very same blanks I had, and recorded music over them and it worked just fine, using the same recorder. Crazy, huh? So my diabolical plan failed and I ended up giving the cassettes back to the guy at work, without listening to any of them.

And the end of the story is, when I transformed and was born again... afterward, the same guy gave me the cassettes as a gift. And I have since given them to someone else.

Every one who is seriously involved in the pursuit of science becomes convinced that a spirit is manifest in the laws of the Universe-a spirit vastly superior to that of man. - Albert Einstein

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humphreys
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March 10, 2012 - 10:15 am
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"OraProNobis" wrote: wow..sounds like someone is a little angry?

Fact is that many who have prayed have been cured of cancer. Look up the statistics.

We would expect that whether God existed or not.

We can ask Santa Claus to cure people of cancer, and guess what? Some will get better, and some will not. Santa believers will say that means Santa only responds to some requests, but those a little more savvy will understand what is really going on.

Toss a coin 100 times. Pray for heads each time. If you get 50 heads, does that mean God answered your prayer 50 times? Sounds ridiculous, but this is believer logic I'm afraid :eh:

I just read through the whole article. I don't see the bitterness and anger. Can you point out a specific line? It seems to me like the guy is showing in as many ways that he can how and why prayer obviously does not work and why the Bible is wrong.

Any attempt to refute that point or are we just going to complain about the tone?

"All of our behavior can be traced to biological events about which we have no conscious knowledge: this has always suggested that free will is an illusion."

- Sam Harris

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at1with0
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March 10, 2012 - 5:38 pm
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I'm not a firm believer in the power of wishful thinking or the lack of wishful thinking's success in disproving all gods existence.

"it is easy to grow crazy"

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March 10, 2012 - 6:14 pm
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"event_horizon" wrote: Proof #1 - Try Praying

What would happen if we get down on our knees and pray to God in this way:

Dear God, almighty, all-powerful, all-loving creator of the universe, we pray to you to cure every case of cancer on this planet tonight. We pray in faith, knowing you will bless us as you describe in Matthew 7:7, Matthew 17:20, Matthew 21:21, Mark 11:24, John 14:12-14, Matthew 18:19 and James 5:15-16. In Jesus' name we pray, Amen.

We pray sincerely, knowing that when God answers this completely heartfelt, unselfish, non-materialistic prayer, it will glorify God and help millions of people in remarkable ways.

Will anything happen? No. Of course not.

Humphreys, nice try right off the bat this is facicious, condesending, and least of all heartfelt praying with humility. It is bitter, and it is not prayed in Faith at all, not sincere, in the form of a challege to God or else. Remember you do not recognize the word Faith, it doesn't exist, yet here you accept to to argue atheism.

Challenge says what if we get down on our knees and pray--did you do that EH or Humphreys? Did you pray in Faith and pray in the name of Jesus. Make a video of yourselves actually doing this experiment, and do it with a heartfelt manner. Will do that? No. Of course not.

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greeney2
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March 10, 2012 - 6:17 pm
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PS, EH just because the title didn't say proof #1 and #2, this is still just more trash from the same sourse! :wave: You really are an angry and bitter person deep down inside.

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humphreys
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March 10, 2012 - 6:44 pm
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"greeney2" wrote: Humphreys, nice try right off the bat this is facicious, condesending, and least of all heartfelt praying with humility.

Greeney, you're doing it again. I am not Event, and that was not my post.

At least try to pay attention.

"All of our behavior can be traced to biological events about which we have no conscious knowledge: this has always suggested that free will is an illusion."

- Sam Harris

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