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God Is Imaginary: Examine Jesus' Miracles (Proof #14)
February 18, 2011
7:59 pm
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greeney2
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To some people moving the mountain isn't enough, for others the Mountain just being there is more than enough proof. Moving mountians can also be as simple as a simple solving a ordinary daily problem.

February 19, 2011
5:47 am
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event_horizon
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"frrostedman" wrote: If Jesus moved a mountain for the Apostles, you would still be in the same state of unbelief today.

If Jesus moved a mountain for you personally, how fair is that for the next person who didn't witness and doesn't believe?

Did you read the entire OP? Because if you did, you'd see that proof of the moved mountain would be obvious to everyone today.

"frrostedman" wrote: Performing undeniable miracles like walking on water, controlling the weather, making food--enough to feed thousands of people--appear out of thin air, raising the dead, healing terminally ill people instantly. These were things that convinced those that saw it. But no one outside the scope of direct witnesses will believe if they don't want to.

Nothing but stories where we don't even know if the people who "saw it" even existed. We still don't have proof if Jesus himself actually existed.

"frrostedman" wrote: God performed direct, tangible, undeniable miracles to an entire civilization of people and just 40 years later when that generation of people died off, the same civilization of people fell back into a state of unbelief.

Is "God" too lazy to continue to prove "His" existence? Or is "God" not powerful or smart enough to leave us all solid/concrete proof of "His" existence for all those past/present/future to see?

"frrostedman" wrote: The bible gives a plethora of examples as to why your demands fall short and why they should not be entertained. It's pointless and the results--in and of themselves--are temporary.

More like a plethora of rationalizations.

horizon

 

The mixed breed three-eyed half grey alien half cyclops mutant from a galaxy so far away you can't even get there if you folded space.

February 19, 2011
6:03 am
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"at1with0" wrote: Suppose eh stands next to god candidate X beside a mountain.
X moves the mountain.
Eh shrugs: "You're just an alien with a tractor beam." Sufficiently advanced technology appears to be a miracle to more primitive people. Try moving a mountain that doubles in mass every second.

X moves the ever increasing mass until eh stops being mildly impressed. "You drugged me and made me hallucinate that" eh says. X takes eh to a lab and checks his blood for toxins. "You falsified the lab reports." Then X calls the health inspector who oversees the lab. "The health inspector is on X's payroll, obviously." X shows eh his bank statement which shows he's overdrawn and couldn't have been employing the health inspector. "You must have been paying him in cash." The health inspector pulls out his pockets, emptying them and showing nothing but lint balls. "You already spent the cash," eh says.

This could go on forever, when someone appeals to desire so strongly as eh does. The desire for there to not be a God.

It really starts to look like the conversation between a focused person with a psychotic person. Psychotic people refuse to believe something different from what they believe no matter how much evidence there is. An infinite evidence threshold.

How dull. God can provide infinite evidence.

The next step, after realizing nothing like that is going to prove it to eh's satisfaction, is to ask eh what would he consider the evidence threshold that there is a God.

There are two possible outcomes of step 2. Eh states what X would have to demonstrate in order to prove X is God OR Eh states that there is nothing X can do that will prove to him that X is god. If the latter, we can stop due to eh's closed-mindlessness.

If the former, my guess is that since eh doesn't think this isn't hypothetical that he hasn't earnestly tried to think about trying to find God. I recommend allotting as much time as you can to the search. There should be some ground rules.
1. Do no read anything during this time.
2. Write as much as possible. Anything you wish, but also include a record of your well-being or lack thereof, and of dreams and odd phenomena.
3. Keep an open mind.
4. There's a problem to be solved. You're trying to figure out what X needs to do in order to prove to you that it is God. ((By rule 1, you're not reading the Bible and not even trying to determine which God X might be.)) That's your problem: invent God criteria and then make X who is standing here with us trying to prove it is God meet those criteria.
That's just homework. Lot's of kids eschew homework, especially when the deepest darkest and deepest brightest parts of self come up.
5. Be ready to unlearn something that you've learned. At the beginning of the lesson, during the lesson, and after the lesson. Also be ready to repeat the lesson many times.
6. Have no expectations. NOT expect nothing. For example, if you do manage to make it to heaven, don't expect pearly white gates with St. Peter standing in front.

Prayer can't hurt. "That I may find you and understand your nature."

You've got way too much time on your hands.

Bottom line is that an ancient book full of stories isn't enough proof for me, neither are stories from others that make claims to have had some sort of supernatural experience. From my own personal experience, I haven't seen one single shred of the tiniest bit of proof. On the other hand, a leaf falling from a tree might be all the proof you need.

If there was a mountain being moved from one place to another today, by no apparent apparatus, and there was no evidence of there being alien intervention (i.e. nothing picked-up by our satellites/radar, or seen by pilots, and there weren't any eyewitnesses claiming they saw a spaceship of some sort), then I would have no choice but to believe there was something godlike going on. Not to mention it would be pretty pointless for aliens to do such a thing to begin with.

And if I were drugged I think I'd be aware of the changes going on in my body and mind at the time. If my body and mind felt just as normal as always, of course I wouldn't think I was hallucinating.

But it would be kinda hard to tell the difference between a hallucination and reality, if you were drugged-up all the time, huh At1? Laugh

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February 19, 2011
6:05 am
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"qmark" wrote: Sir-spams-alot

Anything that challenges your belief is "spam" to you. Laugh

horizon

 

The mixed breed three-eyed half grey alien half cyclops mutant from a galaxy so far away you can't even get there if you folded space.

February 19, 2011
5:01 pm
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"event_horizon" wrote: [quote="qmark"]Sir-spams-alot

Anything that challenges your belief is "spam" to you. Laugh

Obviously, my attempt at humor (lame as it may have been) flew right over your head. Not surprising.

February 19, 2011
8:34 pm
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greeney2
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Not lame at all Q, his only sourse is the same place, he just posts another "Proof". he should change is name to limited_horizon. Laugh

February 20, 2011
6:32 pm
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qmark
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😆 😆 😆

Now that IS funny.

February 20, 2011
6:50 pm
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"qmark" wrote: [quote="event_horizon"][quote="qmark"]Sir-spams-alot

Anything that challenges your belief is "spam" to you. Laugh

Obviously, my attempt at humor (lame as it may have been) flew right over your head. Not surprising.

Apparently, smilies go right over your own head. I made an attempt at a humorous comeback, but it's too bad you have no sense of humor. :problem:

horizon

 

The mixed breed three-eyed half grey alien half cyclops mutant from a galaxy so far away you can't even get there if you folded space.

February 20, 2011
6:53 pm
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"greeney2" wrote: Not lame at all Q, his only sourse is the same place, he just posts another "Proof". he should change is name to limited_horizon. Laugh

If you really wanna go there, you should change yours to UNgreeny, since there's obviously nothing green about you.

Oh, an it's s-o-u-r-C-e, not "sourse"...

Somebody needs to go back to skool. 😛

horizon

 

The mixed breed three-eyed half grey alien half cyclops mutant from a galaxy so far away you can't even get there if you folded space.

February 20, 2011
6:55 pm
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"qmark" wrote: Laugh Laugh Laugh

Now that IS funny.

You shouldn't laugh at the Special Olympics -- it ain't right.

horizon

 

The mixed breed three-eyed half grey alien half cyclops mutant from a galaxy so far away you can't even get there if you folded space.

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