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Free Will AND Predestination, BOTH are true...
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khanster
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May 12, 2013 - 12:03 pm
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Free will AND Predestination, BOTH are true.

God knows all AND we still have free will...

Three valued logic can describe this enigmatic declaration ūüėÄ

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frrostedman
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May 13, 2013 - 6:27 am
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Right.

Just because God has foreknowledge of our actions doesn't mean that we are forced to perform them.

Our destination is foreknown and therefore predestined. How we get there is up to us.

Every one who is seriously involved in the pursuit of science becomes convinced that a spirit is manifest in the laws of the Universe-a spirit vastly superior to that of man. - Albert Einstein

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greeney2
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May 13, 2013 - 9:44 am
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How is predestination up to us if we are murdered, or run down by a drunk driver?

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bionic
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May 13, 2013 - 9:41 pm
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I feel they are both true because time does not work how see that is does..from our perspective.
God knows all, because God is beyond time and knows how everything has played out.
Those of us still caught in time are playing it out..this where free will comes in

Willie Wonka quotes..
What is this Wonka, some kind of funhouse?
Why? Are you having fun?
A little nonsense now and then is relished by the wisest men.
We are the music makers, we are the dreamers of dreams

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bionic
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May 13, 2013 - 9:42 pm
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"greeney2" wrote: How is predestination up to us if we are murdered, or run down by a drunk driver?

if you were in the future and saw this as someone's fate in the past..it would be a predetermined fact

Willie Wonka quotes..
What is this Wonka, some kind of funhouse?
Why? Are you having fun?
A little nonsense now and then is relished by the wisest men.
We are the music makers, we are the dreamers of dreams

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bionic
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May 13, 2013 - 9:45 pm
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now you might argue that the future is unwritten. I say tell that to anyone looking through a telescope right now at a star that has long since gone supernova
ūüėé

Willie Wonka quotes..
What is this Wonka, some kind of funhouse?
Why? Are you having fun?
A little nonsense now and then is relished by the wisest men.
We are the music makers, we are the dreamers of dreams

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at1with0
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May 13, 2013 - 10:06 pm
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What about God's foreknowledge of its own actions? Is it forced to perform actions that it knew it would perform in advance? Does that mean God does not have free will? Three-valued logic comes to the rescue again!

"greeney2" wrote: How is predestination up to us if we are murdered, or run down by a drunk driver?

Who said that predestination is up to us?

"it is easy to grow crazy"

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greeney2
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May 13, 2013 - 10:23 pm
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My question was in response to Frostedmans statement.

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at1with0
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May 13, 2013 - 10:47 pm
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"greeney2" wrote: My question was in response to Frostedmans statement.

Nothing is contradictory in his statement "How we get there is up to us."

"it is easy to grow crazy"

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Dragoness
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May 13, 2013 - 11:38 pm
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"at1with0" wrote: [quote="greeney2"]My question was in response to Frostedmans statement.

Nothing is contradictory in his statement "How we get there is up to us."

I would think "us" in Frostman's statement is a general statement in that the murderer or drunk driver could be considered an us. It might be predestined for you to die, but free will in how it gets done. Just like it would be your free will to fall off a cliff. There is also the belief in metaphysics that you choose when and how you die before you are born. Thus free will and predestination.

Need a head spinning smile ūüôā

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