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What is truth?
April 26, 2012
8:32 am
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greeney2
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The title is What is Truth, Diss? Like I stated, look it up and Wikepedia will show you a long list of different concepts of truth. If you want to make it a deep subject you can, if you look at it in simple terms its not hard. Truth is the exact opposite of a untruth. Are you talking about Lying and telling the truth? Or are you talking about a philisophical paradox, a Mathmatical formula. There are probably all kinds of truths.

April 26, 2012
11:06 am
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khanster
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Truth is an atomic, or "elemental" concept in that it cannot be reduced to more elemental components.

April 26, 2012
2:13 pm
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DIss0n80r
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"greeney2" wrote: The title is What is Truth, Diss? Like I stated, look it up and Wikepedia will show you a long list of different concepts of truth. If you want to make it a deep subject you can, if you look at it in simple terms its not hard. Truth is the exact opposite of a untruth. Are you talking about Lying and telling the truth? Or are you talking about a philisophical paradox, a Mathmatical formula. There are probably all kinds of truths.

Exactly, the title is What is Truth, not Why Should We Be Honest. Obviously, this is intended to be a philosophical exploration of metaphysical truth, not for ridiculous polemicizing about being honest. Sure, you can waltz in here and condescend to us and derail the topic with your "obvious" answers but it amounts to nothing more than trolling. If you have nothing of substance to add, don't waste our time with what amounts to you telling us "Duh, it's obvious!" Maybe obvious to you but some of us take these kinds of questions seriously and we enjoy them.

"I can conceive of nothing in religion, science, or philosophy, that is anything more than the proper thing to wear, for a while." ~ Charles Fort

April 26, 2012
2:25 pm
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DIss0n80r
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"at1with0" wrote: What if we're signals in a brain in a vat?

Then we don't really know what is actual.

This is the point. If it were so simple and obvious what is true and actual, philosophy wouldn't exist. Anybody can assert truth. There is inherent difficulty in deciding on a trustworthy methodology for discovering truth, clarifying truth, understanding truth. We live in an uncertain existence and to live in denial of that would be to cheat yourself out of an important part of the human experience.

"I can conceive of nothing in religion, science, or philosophy, that is anything more than the proper thing to wear, for a while." ~ Charles Fort

April 26, 2012
4:54 pm
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at1with0
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"DIss0n80r" wrote: There is inherent difficulty in deciding on a trustworthy methodology for discovering truth, clarifying truth, understanding truth.

Bingo.

It is because not everything is the truth that there is that difficulty.

"it is easy to grow crazy"

April 26, 2012
5:26 pm
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DIss0n80r
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In what sense do non-truths exist, if truth and existence are ultimately synonymous? :think:

"I can conceive of nothing in religion, science, or philosophy, that is anything more than the proper thing to wear, for a while." ~ Charles Fort

April 26, 2012
5:33 pm
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at1with0
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"DIss0n80r" wrote: In what sense do non-truths exist, if truth and existence are ultimately synonymous? :think:

Existence comes in flavors or types, if you will.

One important example of when truth can exist is when dealing with statements. It is within this realm that non-truths can exist.

"it is easy to grow crazy"

April 26, 2012
5:51 pm
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DIss0n80r
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So would you say falsity is simply a possible product of a certain kind of logical operation?

I would re-examine the assertion that truth is difficult to discern-ascertain due to a kind of predicate falsity.

Perhaps truth is difficult to discern-ascertain because of its own nature, which may resist specification, and falsity is a secondary or byproduct of an inability to correlate and summarize all perceiveables into an informative totality.

Information itself could be seen as a product of the non-existence of a uniform contextualizing operation under which categorization remains absolute.

"I can conceive of nothing in religion, science, or philosophy, that is anything more than the proper thing to wear, for a while." ~ Charles Fort

April 26, 2012
6:16 pm
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at1with0
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It is claimed that truth is in the purview of logic but the reason I don't buy that is that within logic there is at best internal consistency and the "amount" of truth you get from logic can't exceed the "amount" of truth that goes into it...It's a kind of circularity. There are assumptions.

In a beginning logic book you might find what are called truth tables but that doesn't mean logic tells us anything about truth, in fact. It's just telling us what certain words could mean, such as if, implies, then, else, when, unless, and, or, not, there exists, for all, if and only if, necessary, sufficient, whenever, entails, etc.

"it is easy to grow crazy"

April 26, 2012
6:55 pm
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DIss0n80r
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Right, like a rule set formalizing thought to expedite information transference.

I was contemplating what khan said about the bit nature of existence as an information construct. It seems to me that information constructs have any number of dualistic frameworks as their basis. I don't see how it's even possible to view reality as informative otherwise. Even multivalence must be reduced-subsumed to basic binary affirmations and negations which constitute all information constructs eg. if It is this, it is not that.

:wall: That is reductionism in action, but such constructs are undermined by the intuitive truth of a singular reality. If reality is only understandable in terms of "this and that" yet itself encompasses-transcends those dualistic frameworks, we are left with a conundrum.

"I can conceive of nothing in religion, science, or philosophy, that is anything more than the proper thing to wear, for a while." ~ Charles Fort

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