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No Blast crater Apollo?
January 28, 2011
8:07 pm
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jaydeehess
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I have posted two separate rebuttals to the 'there should be a blast crater" contention. So far there has been no addressing of either rebuttal. Instead only an attack on the credentials of the author of one of them.

I also asked a question for which there has been no reply.

Are we then done with the blast crater issue?

Math, science, history unraveling the mystery, that all started with a Big Bang.....BANG!!

January 28, 2011
8:19 pm
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BloodStone
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I think so JD, I don't even hear crickets this time... 😀

BloodStone...

If it were raining hookers, I'd get hit by a fag.

January 29, 2011
2:18 am
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greeney2
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I think Chris stated he was now convinced we actually landed on the Moon. He had changed his position.

January 30, 2011
7:11 am
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jaydeehess
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"greeney2" wrote: I think Chris stated he was now convinced we actually landed on the Moon. He had changed his position.

Well, egg on my face then, and an apology to chris and the thread.

At least I posted Phil Plait's response to the contention. I consider that a contributio.
n to the thread.

Math, science, history unraveling the mystery, that all started with a Big Bang.....BANG!!

January 31, 2011
7:47 am
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chrisv25
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"jaydeehess" wrote: I have posted two separate rebuttals to the 'there should be a blast crater" contention. So far there has been no addressing of either rebuttal. Instead only an attack on the credentials of the author of one of them.

I also asked a question for which there has been no reply.

Are we then done with the blast crater issue?

Damn would have loved to argue.. 😛 Sorry big project this week, i've been doing 80 hours 3000 miles from home.

any way just cause i believe in the moon landing, does not make that site ok; it's just 12 pages of a personal attack and poor scientific observation.

February 5, 2011
12:31 am
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jaydeehess
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Well when you get back home you might answer my question about an example of a logical fallacy on the Clavius site.
You could throw in examples of 'poor scientific observation', as well.

Math, science, history unraveling the mystery, that all started with a Big Bang.....BANG!!

March 8, 2011
8:18 pm
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Eldensword
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This thread has been awesome to read! Greeny2 and I went rounds a couple of years ago on the subject...I lost since I am no expert and have zero experience in engineering or a hands-on, space program job to back up my ideas. However, our prior conversation and this additional thread sparked me to write the following:

It's both true AND a lie! Our government is a master of this technique. The rockets rocketed, the Lander, landed. The Astronauts...Astronauted.

However, something BIG was missing. Through smoke and mirrors and Hollywood tricks, parts of the mission were staged to be much more sensational than they really were. That's the truth folks, easy.

I'm basing that on my own research, tons of valid questions and lots of vague and arbitrary answers that constantly skate the subject by the "experts".

We haven't been back since '71??? Are you kidding me? We quadruple the effort and cost of tests and exploration of Mars to find water for potential colonization...but we found water on the moon which is way closer and...meh?

We made it there; we covered up what really happened on the surface. It could be anything. We either really botched it and would have embarrassed ourselves, or my favorite theory is that we're just not welcome back. I know what that implies, but I’m always entertaining the idea. Where are the Japanese HD videos and photos that were promised of the entire surface? Or, my FAVORITE fact, survey photos that are so obviously Photo-Shopped and blurred out intentionally that you’d be totally nuts to deny it.

Too many open ended things going on. What ever happened to C-Span coverage of the missions? When I was a kid, that was on all the time and would sit there drawing or writing with it on in the background, fascinated by it all. Now with video technology and definition being what it is...we're NOT feeding this stuff live anymore? Only an insane person would argue that those feeds were not supported by the public and therefore cut because of lack of interest. We have Blue Planet, Disney’s EARTH and about 10 million other HD documentaries that sell like hot-cakes at IMAX and on Blueray…Try a Moon landing in HD! It would be a global epic….But nah, we’re bored with the moon.

Buncha lyin’, hidin’ dirty low down secret keepin’ bozos.

It is ridiculous that we're cut off from the truth, but...we are. You and me, we're not exclusive enough to know what's happening just outside the shell.

I am hoping that Virgin Space gets its way! Privatize space, get frequent flyers out there THEN tell me there's nothing interesting enough to put on C-Span.

Greeny2, again I believe that what you believe to be true is respectable. And I know how easy it is for “True Believers” to get worked up and spew things that contradict the actual REAL work that took place.

REAL work did take place and thanks for that! But I am sure, what really happened up there is closed to a very, very few people. And no one on this forum or any other I can imagine is one of those rare individuals.

Cheers!

March 9, 2011
3:07 am
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greeney2
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Hey Eldensword! :clap: Lots of seeds of doubt, but no concept of exactly how they would have pulled off such a hoax. :problem: "Where's the beef", in this faking theory? :think:

Its now 40 years later, and not a single piece of hard evidence, not a single person involved as come forward, and not a single death bed confession. You are not talking about a cheap trick, you are proposing the most elaborate and detailed project of epic porprotions being pulled off, and kept quiet for 40 years. Given the existing level of film special effects being the 2001 movie at the time, this had to look completly believable and real. Faking weighlessness or the moons gravity, the sets involved, the manpower involved, editing, outtakes, retakes and preparing the set again, not to mention a entire group of Astronauts lying through their teeth for the next 40 years, in concert with each others lies?

The biggest feat of all would have been doing this live, becasue the mission control people were doing it live, as well as each step they took on moon walks, were in real time. How could they possibly act this out live, in a stage setting, and superimpose it on live TV coverage in real time, fooling those in mission control watching it, monitoring it, and responding to it. Who was in on the hoax, certainly you are suggesting every astronaut, who returned form the mission and went through exhausting post mission meetings, discussed and discribed in detail every step with places like JPL, and numerous contractors/universities, scientists,high ranking military, of all kinds. These same astronauts launched into space and returned in a space capsule a week later, so how could they be in a secret stage someplace? You are suggesting they were the primary liars, and were able to continue these lies for years to come, including all the post mission grilling they would undergo, with mission details. they had to be able to relate their experience to thousands of people involved with every aspect of the mission, in preperation for the next mission. In one big word, the theory is preposterous, that this huge lie could continue from one mission to another, fooling all those who recieved returned rocks, along with detailed accounts of each and every stone collected. Nobody is that good of a liar, and certain not several teams of 3 Astronauts, all interconnected mission by mission would be able to continue such a gigantic whopper of a story, for that many years.

I havn't even began to list all the thousands of mission control people monitoring the entire missions, plus every other super power on earth, watching with their military means, the space vehicle in the sky, and sling shotting away from earth. Are you suggesting they tricked every person involved and carried on a fake mission someplace, while the real people were launched, went to the moon and back, and somehow the fake efforts, were injected into the real efforts, and they were all fooled??? Droves of people in mission control were directing the moon walks by camera, and you are telling me somehow the "fake version was filtered into the real people, in real time, as they thought they were doing the real mission"? Mission control was watching thousands of on board instruments, heart monitors, communicating with every step they made. Are you suggesting they hooked up phoney instruments to mission control, while the real spacecraft, circled the earth, just turn that one off, and turn on the phoney craft in the studio someplace??? Get real, how could they possibly do all that, a real space craft was flying, but you are proposing the moon mission was faked, between the time they launched and landed in the ocean? Faces and voices were recognizable, and the real ARmstrong and Aldrin got aboard and launched, so who would have been in the fake studio? It was all real time, so it could not have been pretapped, as you would hear them talking as things occured.

Lets hear exactly how you all think this could have been carried off, and after 40 years not a single solitary breach in spilling the beans, on such an epic undertaking. Carrying off this fake mission, fooling all the real players, and every watching country, and keeping it totally secret, would have been 10 times more difficult as actually landing and walking on the moon. Why wouldn't we land and walk, when we had to at least send a capsule to the moon, everyone could see if we just launched and circled the earth.

I'm all ears if you can show how they pulled this off, all the nuts and bolts and mechanics of this hoax are completely missing out of the theory. I'm all ears to hear you tell how all these Astronauts kept quiet, every stage hand, every camera man, every set builder, prop builder, special effects person, every NASA person who know it. Tell me how they were able to sneek aboard the command module all these rocks they returned with, along with dirt and dust, that would have returned, how they alterered the calculations for lift off, and burn times with, calculated on weight that did not include the rock weight? Keep in mind these things were watched and had working crews 24/7 around them.

If the mission was to be faked, the act of doing that, would have resulted in problems, that would have resulted in total failure of the missions. You can not secretly add several hundred pounds of weight to payload, to fake returning the rocks. If you added 200 pounds of rocks and nobody knew it, the burn time to slingshot to the moon would have been incorrect, and they would have missed the moon, hopelessly on a course they could not recover from.

The lack of crater is very well explained by Armstrong and Aldrin how they land, and why there would not be a crater. They explained step by step how they land, going forward the trottlle reducing second by second. All explainable. The author to this theory, was a Rocketdyne employee that left years before any Apollo program even flew.

March 9, 2011
9:30 pm
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greeney2
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Here is another aspect to consider when you say we faked the moon landing. If it was faked only certain people knew about it, correct? Who would believe every single person in mission control was part of the hoax, along with all the Astronauts, and all kept their mouths shut. Every contractor, and 100,000 employees were totally fooled. First off, every mission had those who landed and walked, and one who remained in the capsule orbiting the moon. Who can remember their names at all, let alone imagine what they got out of this hoax? Not only were they unknown by name, they returned to the earth to let the "Fake landers and moon walkers", come home to lavish lifestyles, treated like royalty, and were celebrities, while the snook in the capsule was forgotten. Not only forgotten and skipped over, but this poor fool had to maintain a lie the rest of his life, while the ones who faked the landings got all the glory. You don;t think those guys are disgruntaled if this is all true, and someone would not have blown the lid off this, to sell a book or movie? You don't think after 40 years, the droves of people involved with faking it, would not have come out to blow the story, sell a book, or just been racked with guilt for a lifetime lie? All this conspiracy talk, and the government lying to us, and not one person has confessed, or felt they had to set the record straight?

Another technical issue to all this is the transmission between the earth an the moon. Mission control had a series of relay stations all over the globe. In real time as the Real players on the ground in Huston, talked to the moon, they knew at all times the rotational position of the earth and moon, consequently knew all transmission traveled between different station outposts as the earth and moon rotated. They switched to different places as the earth/moon rotated. How do you propose these signals were fooled when mission control switched to diffentent stations, but the fake signal, was coming from some secret location back on earth some place? All of mission control was also in on this hoax, and somehow coordinating some fake ficticious endevor, into the real time real mission and they were all fooled?

When you look at the real "How they done it" mechanics of the entire theory, its is as preposterous as the idea that someone secretly snuck into the WTC planting exlosives, when we all know what is involved in real life building demolitions. They take months of prepping, big crews, and a heck of a mess, wires, drilling, noise.

March 13, 2011
8:09 pm
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capricorn
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I dont think its hard (relatively speaking) to fake something like this. Especially when you take the social climate of the cold war and the Budget of the US into consideration. It's mostly involves feeding people the desired data whether there are 2 of them or 100,000 of them. Not many of them have to be "in on it".

If I turn on the TV and they tell me its 0 degrees in the south pole and there is film of it snowing, then I believe it must be 30 degrees in the south pole and snowing. For all I know, it could be a tropical paradise there. I'm not going to go to the south pole to check the weather.

Same goes for everyone in america regarding the moon landing. Same goes for the people in mission control. The data they are feed is what they are going to see as 'fact'.

Just to be clear though. I'm not for or against the idea of a faked moon landing, but this thread has been a good read :thumbup:

"a free society depends on a virtuous and moral people."

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