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No Blast crater Apollo?
January 17, 2011
7:24 am
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greeney2
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It's good to have positive emotion concerning the work that one does and there are hundreds of people that were involved with the moon landing mission, greeney is just the one who knows the most about it on this forum.

gudskepteacal is was not "hundreds of people" that were involved with the moon landing. It was over 100,000 people were employed for the Apollo program. 20,000 people alone worked at my division Rocketdyne alone.

January 17, 2011
8:13 am
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chrisv25
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20,000 people saw the phoenix lights too...but they were just military flairs. If Apollo 11 was a UFO claim, skeptics would have thrown it out years ago as being bullshit.

so i ask what are the "rules" to your burden of proof. What would it take to get you to "look" (and with a scientific mind) at the widely available information on the subject?

January 17, 2011
6:07 pm
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greeney2
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You are damned if you do and damned if you don't I guess. LIke I said the disbeliever never will believe it, they just keep coming up with endless theories. If you are a believer we landed on the moon, you will eternally be in denial to the disbeliever, and if you actually were involved with the programs or at least in my case worked 30 years in the period after Apollo, you are "emotionally involved", therefore dismissing anything we would say.

Anyone can dream up and concoct a seed of doubt, but is that doubt a real or imagined senerio. A shadow, a reflection becomes proof positive this was all faked, and all the time techincal aspects of these wild theories are just passed over, just like we just did here.

We discussed and there was explanations of pictures used as a hoax were explainable.

We watched a video of 2 young guys making excuses for their own errors, banking on building their credibility becasue they admit to making mistakes as a introduction to someone with zero credibility.

I discussed as an employee of that company why the term "engineer" was used to bolster his credibility, and as it turned out his degree was in English. This mans claims go beyond craters, he claims we killed chaffee, white, and Grissom, and further claims we killed 7 in the shuttle. His lawsuits agains Lovell were thrown out of court. The man was a nutcase.

No, I am done with this nonsence, you have all the fun with it you want, but I will still do one last thing. I will talk to some of my other coworkers about if they ever herd of Kaysing, and will ask the older members of a club I;m in who date back to these days. They are retirees in thier 70's-and 80's, that worked during the 50-60's. Chase all the shadows in picutre you want to, but that is not an iron clad step by step senerio how they could have done the things I brought up, like the planting of moonrocks in the LEM before launch, what they did for a week in space, while every superpower monitored it, why there has been no death bed confessions from anyone, or someone coming forward to say "I worked making these faked and staged moonwalks in a secret sound stage". Just think about the task of doing all that, and having it kept quite for 40 years.

January 18, 2011
2:40 am
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greeney2
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I talked to a retired coworker who I worked with everyday for 30 years, and he has never herd the name of Bill Kaysing ever mentioned, or even talked about in the shops. He said the same thing I said, when I told him what he believed about murdering the astronauts, and having his Jim Lovell lawsuit thrown out of court.

With that, I;m done!

January 18, 2011
3:11 am
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gudskepteacal
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me too
Good point greeney. Considering the full scope of the whole operation, as you pointed out, the 'moon landing was a hoax' ct just doesn't stand up to skeptical examination.

"History records that the money changers have used every form of abuse, intrigue, deceit, and violent means possible to maintain their control over governments by controlling money and its issuance." - James Madison

January 18, 2011
4:18 am
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chrisv25
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you can ask all of the rocketdyne people you want love to hear what they have to say about the saturn v...but Grumman Aerospace Corporation built the Apollo lander... so i would think that it would be outside of your company's staffs technical expertise...as long as we are talking about people mis representing their expertise just thought i should point that out.

and lastly Jay Windley of clavius or xmission.com or what ever website he is running now has absolutely no aerospace background. he is a systems engineer... Same as me. He has absolutely no technical knowledge of aerospace. he is the same as kaysing and probably a crook.

this is the part were people throw up his technical historian thing...If i was a technical consultant to the matrix...would i be able to tell you the first thing about advanced robotics or aerospace....HE BUILDS COMPUTERS! (actually he probably programs them) he is NOT a historian and he has absolutely no training or education as a historian and he falls repeatedly into the traps of logical fallacy. Sorry to tell you one of your heroes is a liar at worst and a fraud at best.

January 18, 2011
4:53 am
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gudskepteacal
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I think you will find this forum has a very liberal 'sticks and stones' policy, chrisv25. Toss about accusatory derogatorries as you wish, but it gets too serious and no posting here you will be. Just a friendly heads up from a long time member. PEACE

"History records that the money changers have used every form of abuse, intrigue, deceit, and violent means possible to maintain their control over governments by controlling money and its issuance." - James Madison

January 18, 2011
5:00 am
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chrisv25
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gudskepteacal...huh? I don't understand I was stating facts. there is no stick and stones analogy here. I'm not mean...just truthful.

In fact can you point out one part of my post that was not factual?

January 18, 2011
5:07 am
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chrisv25
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and further more if you want to get down to it most conspiracy theories are nuts because they are a Circumstantial Ad Hominem fallacy. I know that and i try to take that into account.

January 18, 2011
8:57 am
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greeney2
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Chris you expect me to continue chasing your rainbows til the cows come home. You presented this and I told you what I can, and what I learned also disproves the entire crater idea. You may do a little more checking about something. North American Aviation was the Prime Contractor for the Mercury/Gemini/Apollo program, and they subcontracted many of the other facets to other companies, including Gruman, all of which would have had Rocketdynes involvment as 31 different motors were built by us for all of it. Do you even know who built the Luner Landing simulator and what happened with it?

You expect people to accept this crater theory, and you placed the credibilty of this upon one person, Bill Kaysing. That was your presentation. I would like you to proove just one thing to me, and proove it with some kind of undeniable proof, which should be far easier than proving we did not land on the moon.

SHOW ME IRON CLAD UNDENIABLE PROOF, BILL KAYSING WORKED AT ROCKETDYNE AT ALL?

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