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Treating Depression with the Oxytocin
March 31, 2012
7:51 pm
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humphreys
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"OraProNobis" wrote: I have actually suffered from depression, and played the medication game , trying different ones, to no avail. When I exercised faith, and started to pray for , things got much better.

As at1 said there are different types. If you have a good reason for being depressed, like emotional trauma or family loss, then self-medication may well be the way to go. That self-medication can be anything from prayer, to meditation, to long walks along the beach, or even a few nights out with friends having a great time - whatever works for you.

That's not the type of depression we're necessarily discussing here though.

"OraProNobis" wrote:

When your computer stops working, do you pray, or call a priest?

I actually have prayed over my computer, and asked the Holy Spirit to intercede with anyone wanting to cause me harm through it, or to it.

LOL. How'd that work out for you? Laugh

"OraProNobis" wrote: That is hardly the same as thinking that depression cannot be caused by the sinfulness of others (bullying for example), or by the guilt of our own sins. You take a child who is severely depressed because of their home life, and the way he/she is treated in school , give them medication and see how quickly it works.

Does that fit the definition of clinical depression? I don't think that'd be the type of depression that fits the chemical imbalance description.

"OraProNobis" wrote: Pretty much a no brainer to see that sins of mankind cause most depression, if not all.

That's a giant and illogical leap to make from one type (based on obvious circumstance) to all.

A recent case is of a footballer here called Gary Speed. Might be a good example. He is suspected to suffer from depression. He actually had a great life, loving home, exciting career, yet he hung himself. Another footballer came out to write about depression and says he has no reason to be sad, and yet his depression is all consuming, he literally cannot pull himself out of bed in the morning.

These are likely examples of depression that need to be medicated and not a result of sin or demonic possession. They are chemical imbalances and physical brain disorders.

"OraProNobis" wrote: I have thought about this. Considering i think much of the modern medical world is actually run by the powers that are controlled by satan (especially at the top ), I wouldn't go to modern medicine for my cure of cancer.
I would ask God to cure i, if it is His will, and if not, would ask for the strength to cope, and offer up my suffering in reparation for my sins.

Then, to be blunt, you will die if you reach that scenario.

You post a few cases of claimed "miracles" where people have healed from cancer without treatment. They claim it was through prayer and you triumphantly claim "Miracle!", and yet, cases of cancer being cured by standard medicine are rife. Some cancers like testicular cancer have a 98% cure rate! How can those isolated cases of miracles, even if legitimate, come close to such a cure rate?

If you had that type of cancer (unlikely as you're female, of course, but hypothetically!), you'd be signing yourself a death warrant by not getting treated!

Insanity.

"All of our behavior can be traced to biological events about which we have no conscious knowledge: this has always suggested that free will is an illusion."

- Sam Harris

March 31, 2012
8:03 pm
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at1with0
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"OraProNobis" wrote:

Humphreys wrote:
The fact depression can be treated successfully with drugs would seem to suggest you're wrong, Ora. Common sense would seem to suggest you are wrong, too.

I have actually suffered from depression, and played the medication game , trying different ones, to no avail. When I exercised faith, and started to pray for , things got much better.

Did you cease to be a sinner?

I'm going to go out on a limb and guess that your depression was situational. Situational depression is often not treatable through medication because the cause isn't a chemical imbalance; the cause is the situation. Did you lose someone close to you or found yourself in a bad situation?

Pretty much a no brainer to see that sins of mankind cause most depression, if not all.

All people are sinners but not all people are depressed (far from it). Therefore, sin does not cause depression.

It seems wrong to me to go to humans who deny the existence of my God, to do something for me that God could do Himself if He wants.

Yeah, but you don't know what God wants.

Sorry , but you are speaking to someone who has been there . I know what the reality of my life says , and I have little faith in the medical system, especially among those who have not acknowledged the power of the living God, and deny His existence.

What about the millions of people for whom drugs do work?

"it is easy to grow crazy"

March 31, 2012
9:28 pm
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Humphreys wrote:
Does that fit the definition of clinical depression? I don't think that'd be the type of depression that fits the chemical imbalance description.

Actually that is exactly what they told me I had, and it was depression from choices I had made , as well as choices others had made. Medication I have been prescribed often, and taken for almost a year with nothing helping.

I know for a fact that faith, hope and prayer can do wonders for your emotional and mental state. Much much more than medication can, even for so called "clinical depression".

Humphreys wrote:
A recent case is of a footballer here called Gary Speed. Might be a good example. He is suspected to suffer from depression. He actually had a great life, loving home, exciting career, yet he hung himself. Another footballer came out to write about depression and says he has no reason to be sad, and yet his depression is all consuming, he literally cannot pull himself out of bed in the morning.

Don't buy it Humphreys. There was something else going on that we are not privy to . As well there could be some serious brain injury for athletes as well that would have considerable factor.

I refuse to "buy into" the notion that a huge amount of people are born with chemical imbalances . The pharmaceutical companies , and doctors are loving that. meanwhile we have hurting teenagers put on antidepressants that do not help with the real cause, and only aggravate the problem until they snap and kill themselves or others.

Humphreys wrote:
Then, to be blunt, you will die if you reach that scenario.

You post a few cases of claimed "miracles" where people have healed from cancer without treatment. They claim it was through prayer and you triumphantly claim "Miracle!", and yet, cases of cancer being cured by standard medicine are rife. Some cancers like testicular cancer have a 98% cure rate! How can those isolated cases of miracles, even if legitimate, come close to such a cure rate?

If you had that type of cancer (unlikely as you're female, of course, but hypothetically!), you'd be signing yourself a death warrant by not getting treated!

Insanity.

Ok , I agree i may have been a little too hasty in making that comment , but in my heart of hearts it is how I feel.

I look at the majority of doctors who go into medicine simply for prestige, family tradition, or MONEY , and do not see a group of people who genuinely care for the well being of others. Throw into that that a number of them have no belief in God, hold no real sacredness to many living things ( are willing to use many living things for experimental use, including aborted fetuses which they do not tell us about)

Yes , I know there are GOOD doctors out there, but many are just arrogant ,selfish ,self postulating know it alls, who care more about the boys at their local mason lodge than they do about there patients.

Its very difficult for me to go to these types for help, when they spit on my faith of Jesus behind my back. I would rather die in my faith , and leave this cruel world behind, thank you very much. 😀

March 31, 2012
9:44 pm
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humphreys
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Well I don't know anything about them being with boys at the mason lodge, but I do share your opinion of the average doctor and their bad arrogant attitudes towards their patients. There just aren't great alternatives, in my opinion.

I guess the key is to look long and hard for the small percentage of good ones out there and hang onto them when you find them. But yeah, my experience of doctors has been much like yours.

In obvious "textbook" cases, they are fine - obvious infections and the like, but in anything even slightly complex or that might need a little thinking out of the box they are appalling, and they rarely take an approach that takes the individual they are talking to into account. It's just symptom a+symptom b=this diagnosis, and if that fails, you're either going to have to live with it or you're imagining it, or they give you a placebo.

It often feels like a drive-through, get you in and out, get you a treatment (medicine, whatever, just get rid of you for the time being), and then onto the next patient.

The system itself is as much to blame, and the solution is probably very complicated, but as-is it's not in a great place.

"All of our behavior can be traced to biological events about which we have no conscious knowledge: this has always suggested that free will is an illusion."

- Sam Harris

March 31, 2012
9:57 pm
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at1with0 wrote:

Yeah, but you don't know what God wants.

You don't know that . Nobody but God knows that.

atwith0 wrote:
Did you cease to be a sinner?

I managed with prayer to get some sins out of my life, that were effecting my mental health.

I will never totally cease to be a sinner,as long as I walk this earth, but I know how to reach out and ask and accept mercy for them now, as well as have them absolved, so they do not weigh me down emotionally and mentally.

at1with0 wrote:
All people are sinners but not all people are depressed (far from it). Therefore, sin does not cause depression.

Certainly true that many sinners do not feel grief at their sins, but indeed revel in them and boast of them. But that does not mean that at some point they will not feel the emotional and mental consequences of their choices.

What is certain is that the harm , and I mean serious harm that these sinners cause to others does cause others to hurt, and sometimes go into depression. Tell me that the sinners who scam the elderly for every last cent in their bank account, causing then serious grief , doesn't contribute to the depression of that elderly person, as well as the depression of family members that care, especially when they are forced to drastically change living arrangements ,to accommodate for the results of the choices ,of the sinners who chose to scam.

Sorry, but sin causes much much depression in this world. I would say it is the one MAJOR source of depression.

atwith0 wrote:
What about the millions of people for whom drugs do work?

You so sure it is the drug? Could be placebo effect like Humphreys mentioned.
Could be their own selves changing their chemistry through positive though, etc.

Not saying that drugs don't work for some , but this society that is reeking with sin, has the gall to say that most people suffering depression have something wrong with them chemically , when in fact it is the natural effects of a very sinful society.

Many souls have to suffer for the choices of a few , and the powers that be know how to screw the little guy, and then make him feel like it is his own dysfunction of the brain for feeling sad, and screw him over for even more money.

*sighs* Thats all I'm going to say on the subject.

I waste enough time in life debating issues endlessly, and I've made my position clear, and why I feel that way.

April 1, 2012
5:52 pm
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"OraProNobis" wrote:

at1with0 wrote:

Yeah, but you don't know what God wants.

You don't know that . Nobody but God knows that.

I do know that a complete being has no wants. Do you think God is incomplete because only an incomplete being has wants. Every time someone thinks God wants this or God wants that, they are wrong unless, of course, their God is incomplete like us humans. I personally couldn't believe a being were God if it were incomplete.

I managed with prayer to get some sins out of my life, that were effecting my mental health.

I will never totally cease to be a sinner,as long as I walk this earth, but I know how to reach out and ask and accept mercy for them now, as well as have them absolved, so they do not weigh me down emotionally and mentally.

If sin causes depression and you did not cease to be a sinner, then your depression must not have been cured.

at1with0 wrote:
All people are sinners but not all people are depressed (far from it). Therefore, sin does not cause depression.

Certainly true that many sinners do not feel grief at their sins, but indeed revel in them and boast of them. But that does not mean that at some point they will not feel the emotional and mental consequences of their choices.

That doesn't mean sin causes depression. If sin caused depression, every human would always be depressed.

What is certain is that the harm , and I mean serious harm that these sinners cause to others does cause others to hurt, and sometimes go into depression. Tell me that the sinners who scam the elderly for every last cent in their bank account, causing then serious grief , doesn't contribute to the depression of that elderly person, as well as the depression of family members that care, especially when they are forced to drastically change living arrangements ,to accommodate for the results of the choices ,of the sinners who chose to scam.

Sorry, but sin causes much much depression in this world. I would say it is the one MAJOR source of depression.

Not all depression is caused by sin. Simply, again, if sin caused depression every human would be depressed for their entire lives. Sin can cause depression but not because it is a sin.

atwith0 wrote:
What about the millions of people for whom drugs do work?

You so sure it is the drug? Could be placebo effect like Humphreys mentioned.
Could be their own selves changing their chemistry through positive though, etc.

Double blind studies compare the drugs to placebo.
But while we're on the subject of placebo, you so sure it is prayer that helped your depression and not be the placebo effect? Got any proof that it wasn't just placebo.

"it is easy to grow crazy"

April 1, 2012
8:10 pm
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ricardo
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interesting psychology/ philosophy debate. sin as a causality for depression ?

from an catholic/ Christian perspective ? I'm curious what the religion says

about MASTURBATION from your perspective and training ( education)

if considered an sin . would depression be caused by this sin ?

" sin can cause depression not because it is a sin " clarification requested...

April 1, 2012
9:19 pm
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"ricardo" wrote:

" sin can cause depression not because it is a sin " clarification requested...

Well let's take murder for example which is clearly a sin in their book.

Let's say someone murders your mother. Why can that cause you to experience an episode of depression?

Let me give you two possibilities among a few:
(a) Murder is a sin according to Moses, a sin that can be absolved through the power of Christ incidentally
(b) You have lost your mother.

What do you honestly think? I think it's common sense.
I think Ora believes in the power of prayer because it worked in her case which is why it seems like common sense to her.

"it is easy to grow crazy"

April 2, 2012
12:04 am
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at1with0 wrote:
Not all depression is caused by sin. Simply, again, if sin caused depression every human would be depressed for their entire lives. Sin can cause depression but not because it is a sin.

Sin effects us , but prayer and the Holy Spirit can help diffuse that effect, in the sense that when someone seriously sins against us, it can cause hurt ,and pain, which can lead to anger and bitterness. By learning to forgive, and asking God for His healing for our spiritual and emotional wounds caused by others we can ward of depression caused by sin.

at1with0 wrote:
I do know that a complete being has no wants. Do you think God is incomplete because only an incomplete being has wants.

Again that is entirely your personal analysis, and is not based on absolute truth of God or an absolute truth on what a complete being wants or does not want.

Ricardo wrote :
interesting psychology/ philosophy debate. sin as a causality for depression ?

from an catholic/ Christian perspective ? I'm curious what the religion says

about MASTERBATION from your perspective and training ( education)

if considered an sin . would depression be caused by this sin ?

" sin can cause depression not because it is a sin " clarification requested...

Yes, depression could be caused by the sin of excessive masturbation, but only for those who have in their conscious the knowledge that it is wrong, and continue to do it without getting it absolved, or firmly making a commitment to fight the temptation.

Many have their consciousness seared as to what is sin and what is not. Those souls would not feel depression because they do not even realize they are in sin.

There are also souls who appear from the outside to be happy and well adjusted , but internally they are suffering from depression caused by remorse, guilt , etc.

April 2, 2012
12:26 am
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"OraProNobis" wrote:

at1with0 wrote:
Not all depression is caused by sin. Simply, again, if sin caused depression every human would be depressed for their entire lives. Sin can cause depression but not because it is a sin.

Sin effects us , but prayer and the Holy Spirit can help diffuse that effect, in the sense that when someone seriously sins against us, it can cause hurt ,and pain, which can lead to anger and bitterness. By learning to forgive, and asking God for His healing for our spiritual and emotional wounds caused by others we can ward of depression caused by sin.

Again, if sin causes depression, explain how not even close to all humans, all of whom are sinners including you, are chronically depressed?

at1with0 wrote:
I do know that a complete being has no wants. Do you think God is incomplete because only an incomplete being has wants.

Again that is entirely your personal analysis, and is not based on absolute truth of God or an absolute truth on what a complete being wants or does not want.

I don't think you're understanding what I mean by complete. A complete being has no lack, and thus no basis for desire. A complete being has no wants. Therefore, when you say you know what God wants, like how Pres. Bush said God wants a war in Iraq, you are referring to an incomplete being which God is not.
As far as it being my personal analysis, at least it is that and not regurgitation from a book.

Yes, depression could be caused by the sin of excessive masturbation, but only for those who have in their conscious the knowledge that it is wrong, and continue to do it without getting it absolved, or firmly making a commitment to fight the temptation.

In that case, it isn't sin that causes depression but instead believing you are doing something wrong that causes depression. I feel sorry for people who believe that masturbation is wrong. It amounts to self-imposed guilt.

I noticed that you neglected to choose (a) or (b) in the above scenario. Why does the murder of your mother cause you depression??

I think it's wonderful that you found a way to move past your pain through the power of the Holy Spirit but we both know that not all depressed patients will be cured by praying.

"it is easy to grow crazy"

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