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Treating Depression with the Oxytocin
March 30, 2012
7:16 pm
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at1with0
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"OraProNobis" wrote:

Still not sure its wise to depend too much on drugs to treat depression. To a point perhaps, but I think we can change the chemistry of depression through prayer , and through healthy diet. If drugs are needed for a time, they should not be considered as long term solutions.

Prayer does not remove depression but, then again, neither to the drugs.

What type of prayer do you have in mind? God take away my suffering? Yeah, that's not gonna work for multiple reasons, one of which is the selfish nature of it.

I clown around a lot...everyone here is used to it. :dance:

"it is easy to grow crazy"

March 30, 2012
7:34 pm
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at1with0 wrote:
Prayer does not remove depression but, then again, neither to the drugs.

What type of prayer do you have in mind? God take away my suffering? Yeah, that's not gonna work for multiple reasons, one of which is the selfish nature of it.

Why do you presume that?

Depression happens for a miriad of reasons. Prayer that is focused on asking for strength to bare our crosses, and to persevere is actually very beneficial.

Prayer that focuses on God giving strength and hope, and taking one day at a time doing the best you can in the given situation has helped many homeless, and jobless people have hope and carry on.

Prayer that is focuses on asking strength to overcome weakness and sin in ones life that is a great cause for the depression has worked as well. Many people have prayed for the strength to stop gambling, or drinking, or doing drugs, or watching porn . All things which have caused problems in their relationships and families and has lead to serious depression.

I feel sad that you can't see the power of prayer at1with0, and choose to twist it around as if it always some "selfish" thing. Praying for others you love has helped people overcome their depression caused by seeing loved ones in so much suffering, due to circumstances they can do little about.

Yes, how sad, that you would choose the "fun" drug, and ignore the greatest power on earth. The power of prayer.

March 30, 2012
8:08 pm
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at1with0
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"OraProNobis" wrote:

at1with0 wrote:
Prayer does not remove depression but, then again, neither to the drugs.

What type of prayer do you have in mind? God take away my suffering? Yeah, that's not gonna work for multiple reasons, one of which is the selfish nature of it.

Why do you presume that?

It's common sense and a lot of experience.

Wishful thinking doesn't accomplish much. Including wishing for strength and hope. Can an amputee pray for his limbs to return? No. Likewise for someone whose serotonin receptors are bad wish that they weren't. It's a myth that depression has to do with strength; strength is no more involved in clinical depression than it is for an amputee or a diabetic person. When someone feels stronger after wishing for strength, it is because of the power of belief that they feel stronger. The power of belief is where that strength comes from, not from God. The strength comes from within, no need to rely on an external source for what is already inside.

Depression happens for a miriad of reasons. Prayer that is focused on asking for strength to bare our crosses, and to persevere is actually very beneficial.

Like I said, depression, clinical depression resulting from what goes on in the brain, has nothing to do with strength. So even if prayer can be exploited in order to gain strength (which it can't), that won't treat the cause of depression any more than oxytocin or St. John's wart.

Prayer that focuses on God giving strength and hope, and taking one day at a time doing the best you can in the given situation has helped many homeless, and jobless people have hope and carry on.

Many who seek, find, but many who seek do not find. I was jobless in a homeless shelter for part of 2003 and I have seen first-hand that belief in God and prayer did, in fact, help some people but I also know that prayer and faith alone is not a panacea for life's problems, especially problems that are results of choices freely made like to not go to school.

Prayer that is focuses on asking strength to overcome weakness and sin in ones life that is a great cause for the depression has worked as well. Many people have prayed for the strength to stop gambling, or drinking, or doing drugs, or watching porn . All things which have caused problems in their relationships and families and has lead to serious depression.

Clinical depression is not caused by sin or weakness. Nor is it demonic possession.

I feel sad that you can't see the power of prayer at1with0, and choose to twist it around as if it always some "selfish" thing. Praying for others you love has helped people overcome their depression caused by seeing loved ones in so much suffering, due to circumstances they can do little about.

Yes, how sad, that you would choose the "fun" drug, and ignore the greatest power on earth. The power of prayer.

I see the power of the will, and I think it is sad that you have to rely on an external source for your strength that is within. People who pray for strength to carry out God's will often enough are seeking an escape from their weakness and suffering, though not all people who pray are doing it for selfish reasons.

I never said I would choose to take oxytocin.

"it is easy to grow crazy"

March 31, 2012
8:49 am
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bionic
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prayer can be seen be a form of oxycotin..a way to draw it out of oneself..to create a state of bliss in yourself..useing prayer and meditation, and the like

Willie Wonka quotes..
What is this Wonka, some kind of funhouse?
Why? Are you having fun?
A little nonsense now and then is relished by the wisest men.
We are the music makers, we are the dreamers of dreams

March 31, 2012
9:04 am
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at1with0 wrote:
Clinical depression is not caused by sin or weakness. Nor is it demonic possession.

You have absolutely no proof of that statement , and neither does the medical community. I believe it has a great deal to do with sin, even if it is the effects of others sin around you.

We are all effected by sin, whether we care to admit or not. That can be our own sin as well as the sins of others.

at1with0 wrote:
People who pray for strength to carry out God's will often enough are seeking an escape from their weakness and suffering, though not all people who pray are doing it for selfish reasons.

Just another opinion , from someone who doesn't most likely possess the insight or knowledge as to really understand why ALL people pray, and is making sweeping generalizations.

March 31, 2012
4:27 pm
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humphreys
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"OraProNobis" wrote: You have absolutely no proof of that statement , and neither does the medical community. I believe it has a great deal to do with sin, even if it is the effects of others sin around you.

The fact depression can be treated successfully with drugs would seem to suggest you're wrong, Ora. Common sense would seem to suggest you are wrong, too.

When your computer stops working, do you pray, or call a priest?

If you get cancer at some point in your life, will you ignore doctors entirely and simply ask God and/or Mary to heal you, or perhaps suspect a demon is responsible, or would you undertake medical treatment to eradicate the disease?

Wishful or magical thinking is unlikely to fix physical problems or chemical imbalances within the brain, as someone who has actually suffered from the disease is going to tell you.

"All of our behavior can be traced to biological events about which we have no conscious knowledge: this has always suggested that free will is an illusion."

- Sam Harris

March 31, 2012
6:40 pm
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at1with0
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"OraProNobis" wrote:

at1with0 wrote:
Clinical depression is not caused by sin or weakness. Nor is it demonic possession.

You have absolutely no proof of that statement , and neither does the medical community. I believe it has a great deal to do with sin, even if it is the effects of others sin around you.

We are all effected by sin, whether we care to admit or not. That can be our own sin as well as the sins of others.

Depression is caused by sin! Contact the New England Journal of Medicine!

As humphreys mentioned, why do the drugs sometimes produce effective results if sin is the cause? Depression has a constellation of causes, one of which is chemical-related and another of which is situational/environmental. Suppose my family dies in a car wreck and I get situational depression, which is quite normal. You're gonna diagnose that as caused-by-sin?? Ridiculous. Sin is most certainly not a cause for depression. Why? Well, you believe every human to have ever lived is a sinner, yes? If sin caused depression then every human to have ever lived would have a chronic case of depression throughout their whole lives. That's what cause means. It's not a cause unless it always leads to that outcome. Anything less than always reduces it to merely a factor. Some sins can be a factor in depression but that's about it.

How is it that some people demand proof for one thing yet having absolutely no proof that the Bible is the word of God? It's a double standard.

I agree that we are affected by sins, no doubt. Murder, theft, dishonor, adultery, lying, etc., certainly does affect me. But is sin the cause of depression? No, for the simple fact that not every human suffers from depression at all times.

People who pray for strength to carry out God's will often enough are seeking an escape from their weakness and suffering, though not all people who pray are doing it for selfish reasons.

Just another opinion , from someone who doesn't most likely possess the insight or knowledge as to really understand why ALL people pray, and is making sweeping generalizations.

Often enough, yes, people who pray for strength are looking for an escape from their weakness and suffering. My comment was not about all people who pray, so don't say that it was. As I said, not all people who pray are doing it for selfish reasons.

"it is easy to grow crazy"

March 31, 2012
6:55 pm
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greeney2
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"humphreys" wrote: [quote="OraProNobis"]You have absolutely no proof of that statement , and neither does the medical community. I believe it has a great deal to do with sin, even if it is the effects of others sin around you.

The fact depression can be treated successfully with drugs would seem to suggest you're wrong, Ora. Common sense would seem to suggest you are wrong, too.

When your computer stops working, do you pray, or call a priest?

If you get cancer at some point in your life, will you ignore doctors entirely and simply ask God and/or Mary to heal you, or perhaps suspect a demon is responsible, or would you undertake medical treatment to eradicate the disease?

Wishful or magical thinking is unlikely to fix physical problems or chemical imbalances within the brain, as someone who has actually suffered from the disease is going to tell you.

whats wrong with doing both?

March 31, 2012
7:15 pm
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Humphreys wrote:
The fact depression can be treated successfully with drugs would seem to suggest you're wrong, Ora. Common sense would seem to suggest you are wrong, too.

I have actually suffered from depression, and played the medication game , trying different ones, to no avail. When I exercised faith, and started to pray for , things got much better.

When your computer stops working, do you pray, or call a priest?

I actually have prayed over my computer, and asked the Holy Spirit to intercede with anyone wanting to cause me harm through it, or to it. But I would take it to someone to fix if it broke down.

That is hardly the same as thinking that depression cannot be caused by the sinfulness of others (bullying for example), or by the guilt of our own sins. You take a child who is severely depressed because of their home life, and the way he/she is treated in school , give them medication and see how quickly it works.

Now take away the problems in the home life caused by serious sin , such as drug use, alcohol fueled fighting etc, and replace that with a good solid loving family who cares for each other, as well as friends in school who care and pay attention, and do not use words to hurt and intimidate, what do you think will help the child ?

Pretty much a no brainer to see that sins of mankind cause most depression, if not all.

It is the love and healing of the Holy Spirit that can HEAL those wounds, and help to alleviate the suffering , though not all of it. Once the souls understands that these sufferings can be offered up to God for reparation of sins , and for conversion of souls, they are that much easier to bare.

If you get cancer at some point in your life, will you ignore doctors entirely and simply ask God and/or Mary to heal you, or perhaps suspect a demon is responsible, or would you undertake medical treatment to eradicate the disease?

I have thought about this. Considering i think much of the modern medical world is actually run by the powers that are controlled by satan (especially at the top ), I wouldn't go to modern medicine for my cure of cancer.

I would ask God to cure i, if it is His will, and if not, would ask for the strength to cope, and offer up my suffering in reparation for my sins.

It seems wrong to me to go to humans who deny the existence of my God, to do something for me that God could do Himself if He wants.

Wishful or magical thinking is unlikely to fix physical problems or chemical imbalances within the brain, as someone who has actually suffered from the disease is going to tell you.

Laugh And neither is wishful or magical thinking that the medication will work. In fact the side effects and complications can make it much worse.

I am someone who has suffered from depression, severe depression, and never once has medication helped me. It has always come back to spiritual prayer, and hope and faith in the loving power of Jesus, that has pulled me through.

Sorry , but you are speaking to someone who has been there . I know what the reality of my life says , and I have little faith in the medical system, especially among those who have not acknowledged the power of the living God, and deny His existence.

March 31, 2012
7:36 pm
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humphreys
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"greeney2" wrote: [quote="humphreys"][quote="OraProNobis"]You have absolutely no proof of that statement , and neither does the medical community. I believe it has a great deal to do with sin, even if it is the effects of others sin around you.

The fact depression can be treated successfully with drugs would seem to suggest you're wrong, Ora. Common sense would seem to suggest you are wrong, too.

When your computer stops working, do you pray, or call a priest?

If you get cancer at some point in your life, will you ignore doctors entirely and simply ask God and/or Mary to heal you, or perhaps suspect a demon is responsible, or would you undertake medical treatment to eradicate the disease?

Wishful or magical thinking is unlikely to fix physical problems or chemical imbalances within the brain, as someone who has actually suffered from the disease is going to tell you.

whats wrong with doing both?

I'd not recommend going to an exorcist if you get cancer as the stress is not likely to help, but prayer certainly won't hurt, so I don't see anything wrong with it.

It seems that medicine without prayer is effective, and medicine with prayer is equally effective, but prayer without medicine is not likely to get good results, so as long as you take the medicine itself you can decide to pray or not pray and studies will show it makes no difference which.

Best case scenario you'll get a minor boost from the placebo effect it can produce.

"All of our behavior can be traced to biological events about which we have no conscious knowledge: this has always suggested that free will is an illusion."

- Sam Harris

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