Petition to IMPEACH ALL Senators who Voted for U.S. is a Ba | Page 2 | General Discussion Topics | Forum

A A A
Avatar

Please consider registering
guest

sp_LogInOut Log In sp_Registration Register

Register | Lost password?
Advanced Search

— Forum Scope —






— Match —





— Forum Options —





Minimum search word length is 3 characters - maximum search word length is 84 characters

No permission to create posts
sp_Feed Topic RSS sp_TopicIcon
Petition to IMPEACH ALL Senators who Voted for U.S. is a Ba
December 16, 2011
5:03 am
Avatar
gudskepteacal
Member
Members
Forum Posts: 620
Member Since:
June 5, 2009
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

As a follow-up, here is a link to an article by an attorney who has bested the FDA several times in court. I realize that doesn't necessarily mean he's right, but his words will, no doubt, carry more weight than mine in this matter. The paragraph posted comes later in the article but I thought it was very powerful and beautifully illustrated why the 'indefinite detention' part of S.Bill 1867 is all wrong.

http://www.newswithviews.com/E.....han222.htm

"At a time when our limited federal government has been transformed into an unlimited bureaucratic oligarchy (an unlimited government that runs rough shod over strictures on power, the non-delegation doctrine, the separation of powers, and the rights of Americans), it should come as no surprise that two senior United States Senators who have contributed to that transformation over the years, Carl Levin and John McCain, would think it appropriate to deny summarily the rights of all Americans to notice of criminal charges against them, a speedy trial, a trial by jury, and to counsel of their choosing if accused of support for or involvement with terrorists. I am quite certain that neither Levin nor McCain thought when they authored Section 1031 of Senate Bill 1867 that they were aligning themselves with the historic enemies of the Founding Fathers’ republic, with those who harbor ambivalence or disdain for the sacred rights indispensable to individual liberty that are designedly protected by our Constitution and Bill of Rights, and with those who find the pretext of war sufficient to justify the denial of rights outside the theater of war."

They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.-Benjamin Franklin

"History records that the money changers have used every form of abuse, intrigue, deceit, and violent means possible to maintain their control over governments by controlling money and its issuance." - James Madison

December 23, 2011
3:55 am
Avatar
katsung47
Member
Members
Forum Posts: 844
Member Since:
February 23, 2011
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Congress Approves Provisions for Indefinite Arrests and Detention of US Citizens

, SF Conservative Examiner
December 18, 2011

Enemies of the People & U.S. Constitution; Congressional Traitors Approved Provisions for Indefinite Arrests, and Detentions of U.S. Citizens, with no Due Processes, Mainly Those Who Criticize Government:

S.1867, the National Defense Authorization Act, attacks on our liberties was passed to the dismay of Libertarians all over.

http://www.examiner.com/conservative-in ... s-citizens

December 24, 2011
4:45 am
Avatar
Wing-Zero
Member
Members
Forum Posts: 3278
Member Since:
April 9, 2009
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

"katsung47" wrote: Congress Approves Provisions for Indefinite Arrests and Detention of US Citizens

U.S. citizens? Did they rewrite the bill? Because if they didn't then there's nothing in there that says U.S. citizens can be indefinitely detained, as we've established in two separate threads.

War is an extension of economics and diplomacy through other means.

Economics and diplomacy are methods of securing resources used by humans.

Securing resources is the one necessary behavior for all living things.

War = Life

January 5, 2012
10:53 pm
Avatar
katsung47
Member
Members
Forum Posts: 844
Member Since:
February 23, 2011
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Try to confuse people?

ACLUs statement regarding that section ^^

“Don’t be confused by anyone claiming that the indefinite detention legislation does not apply to American citizens. It does. There is an exemption for American citizens from the mandatory detention requirement (section 1032 of the bill), but no exemption for American citizens from the authorization to use the military to indefinitely detain people without charge or trial (section 1031 of the bill). So, the result is that, under the bill, the military has the power to indefinitely imprison American citizens, but it does not have to use its power unless ordered to do so. But you don’t have to believe us. Instead, read what one of the bill’s sponsors, Sen. Lindsey Graham said about it on the Senate floor: “1031, the statement of authority to detain, does apply to American citizens and it designates the world as the battlefield, including the homeland.”

SEC. 1031. AFFIRMATION OF AUTHORITY OF THE ARMED FORCES OF THE UNITED STATES TO DETAIN COVERED PERSONS PURSUANT TO THE AUTHORIZATION FOR USE OF MILITARY FORCE. (a) In General- Congress affirms that the authority of the President to use all necessary and appropriate force pursuant to the Authorization for Use of Military Force (Public Law 107-40) includes the authority for the Armed Forces of the United States to detain covered persons (as defined in subsection (b)) pending disposition under the law of war. (b) Covered Persons- A covered person under this section is any person as follows: (1) A person who planned, authorized, committed, or aided the terrorist attacks that occurred on September 11, 2001, or harbored those responsible for those attacks. (2) A person who was a part of or substantially supported al-Qaeda, the Taliban, or associated forces that are engaged in hostilities against the United States or its coalition partners, including any person who has committed a belligerent act or has directly supported such hostilities in aid of such enemy forces. (c) Disposition Under Law of War- The disposition of a person under the law of war as described in subsection (a) may include the following: (1) Detention under the law of war without trial until the end of the hostilities authorized by the Authorization for Use of Military Force. (2) Trial under chapter 47A of title 10, United States Code (as amended by the Military Commissions Act of 2009 (title XVIII of Public Law 111-84)). (3) Transfer for trial by an alternative court or competent tribunal having lawful jurisdiction. (4) Transfer to the custody or control of the person's country of origin, any other foreign country, or any other foreign entity.

http://www.unforumzed.com/showthread.ph ... ica./page3

January 5, 2012
11:45 pm
Avatar
Wing-Zero
Member
Members
Forum Posts: 3278
Member Since:
April 9, 2009
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

COVERED PERSONS

As defined in SEC. 1032., US Citizens are not covered persons and do not apply to detaining indefinitely without trial.

War is an extension of economics and diplomacy through other means.

Economics and diplomacy are methods of securing resources used by humans.

Securing resources is the one necessary behavior for all living things.

War = Life

January 6, 2012
3:12 am
Avatar
The_Joker
Member
Forum Posts: 709
Member Since:
July 30, 2010
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Out of curiosity I looked at the link for the petition and I don't think it will work.

If American law is anything like Australian Law at all many of the petitions raised never see the light of day in so far as petitions being accepted in a "Legal" format.

I say this because in Australia there is one phrase on petitions that must be placed in the document for any petition against a Government (State or Federal) which is not in the thousands of petitions that are raised every year.

The phrase is: "It is the will of the following people that"

Additionally, The full name and address of the petitioners (the signed) must include their full name and address as it appears on the electoral role.

The reasons for the name and address is so that the people can be properly identified as citizens with the right to vote.

Anonymous persons on e-petitions or e-petitions are not counted as they can not be verified and rarely (meaning never)are e-petitions accepted.

I do not sign petitions unless they carry the phrase I mentioned as I believe they are used for purposes other than what the petition is about.

Maybe you guys should look into "My Will" as it pertains to getting politicians to do what they were elected to do..The will of the people. As I type this, I am getting an overwhelming feeling that what I have said applies to America as well as Australia, Canada, New Zealand, England et al.

Remember remember the fifth of November
Gunpowder, treason and plot.
I see no reason why gunpowder, treason
Should ever be forgot...

January 19, 2012
1:32 am
Avatar
katsung47
Member
Members
Forum Posts: 844
Member Since:
February 23, 2011
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

"Wing-Zero" wrote: COVERED PERSONS

As defined in SEC. 1032., US Citizens are not covered persons and do not apply to detaining indefinitely without trial.

ACLUs statement regarding that section ^^

“Don’t be confused by anyone claiming that the indefinite detention legislation does not apply to American citizens. It does. There is an exemption for American citizens from the mandatory detention requirement (section 1032 of the bill), but no exemption for American citizens from the authorization to use the military to indefinitely detain people without charge or trial (section 1031 of the bill). So, the result is that, under the bill, the military has the power to indefinitely imprison American citizens, but it does not have to use its power unless ordered to do so. But you don’t have to believe us. Instead, read what one of the bill’s sponsors, Sen. Lindsey Graham said about it on the Senate floor: “1031, the statement of authority to detain, does apply to American citizens and it designates the world as the battlefield, including the homeland.”

SEC. 1031. AFFIRMATION OF AUTHORITY OF THE ARMED FORCES OF THE UNITED STATES TO DETAIN COVERED PERSONS PURSUANT TO THE AUTHORIZATION FOR USE OF MILITARY FORCE. (a) In General- Congress affirms that the authority of the President to use all necessary and appropriate force pursuant to the Authorization for Use of Military Force (Public Law 107-40) includes the authority for the Armed Forces of the United States to detain covered persons (as defined in subsection (b)) pending disposition under the law of war. (b) Covered Persons- A covered person under this section is any person as follows: (1) A person who planned, authorized, committed, or aided the terrorist attacks that occurred on September 11, 2001, or harbored those responsible for those attacks. (2) A person who was a part of or substantially supported al-Qaeda, the Taliban, or associated forces that are engaged in hostilities against the United States or its coalition partners, including any person who has committed a belligerent act or has directly supported such hostilities in aid of such enemy forces. (c) Disposition Under Law of War- The disposition of a person under the law of war as described in subsection (a) may include the following: (1) Detention under the law of war without trial until the end of the hostilities authorized by the Authorization for Use of Military Force. (2) Trial under chapter 47A of title 10, United States Code (as amended by the Military Commissions Act of 2009 (title XVIII of Public Law 111-84)). (3) Transfer for trial by an alternative court or competent tribunal having lawful jurisdiction. (4) Transfer to the custody or control of the person's country of origin, any other foreign country, or any other foreign entity.

http://www.unforumzed.com/showthread.ph ... ica./page3

January 19, 2012
1:50 am
Avatar
Wing-Zero
Member
Members
Forum Posts: 3278
Member Since:
April 9, 2009
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Yes, I saw the previous post.

but no exemption for American citizens from the authorization to use the military to indefinitely detain people without charge or trial (section 1031 of the bill).

Once again, I reiterate - COVERED PERSONS. You can take a gander at SEC. 1031. and see for yourself that it states numerously that the things in the bill only apply to covered persons (and also points to sub-section b in SEC. 1032. to tell you who does OR DOESN'T fall under "Covered Persons".)

The evidence isn't there that it allows for indefinite detention of American citizens. Even if it did, numerous Supreme Court cases AND the 6th Amendment would be shoved in there so damn quick it would probably be considered an NC-17 rating.

War is an extension of economics and diplomacy through other means.

Economics and diplomacy are methods of securing resources used by humans.

Securing resources is the one necessary behavior for all living things.

War = Life

January 19, 2012
2:04 am
Avatar
Guest
Guests

"Wing-Zero" wrote: Yes, I saw the previous post.

but no exemption for American citizens from the authorization to use the military to indefinitely detain people without charge or trial (section 1031 of the bill).

Once again, I reiterate - COVERED PERSONS. You can take a gander at SEC. 1031. and see for yourself that it states numerously that the things in the bill only apply to covered persons (and also points to sub-section b in SEC. 1032. to tell you who does OR DOESN'T fall under "Covered Persons".)

The evidence isn't there that it allows for indefinite detention of American citizens. Even if it did, numerous Supreme Court cases AND the 6th Amendment would be shoved in there so damn quick it would probably be considered an NC-17 rating.

What is a belligerent act? Is peacefully protesting a belligerent act? How about posting an article critiquing the president or congress? Who decides that? When politicians make statements calling these people and their movements "belligerent", it certainly makes one wonder.

January 19, 2012
2:11 am
Avatar
Wing-Zero
Member
Members
Forum Posts: 3278
Member Since:
April 9, 2009
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

"Rykuss" wrote: What is a belligerent act? Is peacefully protesting a belligerent act? How about posting an article critiquing the president or congress? Who decides that? When politicians make statements calling these people and their movements "belligerent", it certainly makes one wonder.

No doubt. I'm not supporting the bill. Even though it doesn't specifically say anything concrete, I'm not blind to the fact that, if they could, a lot of politicians would like to put us under lock-and-key. I don't understand why any of this is in a bill that is supposedly only alive because it detailed the defense budget for 2012. Tacked on by sneaky pollies no doubt.

I'm of the opinion that a "belligerent act" is anything that may further be backed by the Patriot Act to label the accused of terrorism and be tried as a terrorist. While you would think through that route that it would then allow them to detain indef. the thing is that you're an American Citizen regardless. You're protected by numerous Supreme Court cases and the 6th amendment, and even if you did end up locked up like that they wouldn't be able to keep you long. Your story would make news, and a host of lawyers and human rights folks would be clawing at each other to get to you.

I digress, the bill has nothing concrete that allows the government to throw you into the dungeons in the name of His Majesty for God and Country. If there is, I'd be happy to be proven wrong through logic and discourse.

War is an extension of economics and diplomacy through other means.

Economics and diplomacy are methods of securing resources used by humans.

Securing resources is the one necessary behavior for all living things.

War = Life

No permission to create posts
Forum Timezone: America/Los_Angeles

Most Users Ever Online: 288

Currently Online:
41 Guest(s)

Currently Browsing this Page:
1 Guest(s)

Top Posters:

greeney2: 10275

bionic: 9870

Lashmar: 5289

tigger: 4576

rath: 4297

DIss0n80r: 4161

sandra: 3858

frrostedman: 3815

Wing-Zero: 3278

Tairaa: 2842

Member Stats:

Guest Posters: 2

Members: 24662

Moderators: 0

Admins: 2

Forum Stats:

Groups: 8

Forums: 31

Topics: 8966

Posts: 124108

Newest Members:

German, Cajun, erica, kode, doninbran21, MYSTIFY, kregg, donel clark, Codetrader

Administrators: John Greenewald: 634, blackvault: 1776