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Boeing moving 787 out of Seattle!
October 29, 2009
4:45 am
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greeney2
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Just when you think one of the most job providing companies in your area is the war machine and does nothing good for the world but kill people, they leave your state for one that wants them. If I had nothing to do but sit in the bar all day getting tanked, I wouldn;t care, I'd even be happy about, and go down to the plant gate and call all the laid off workers murderers. Don't complain when your housing value plumets, and you end up looking like Detroit.

Boeing picks South Carolina for 2nd 787 line
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Delicious Digg Facebook Fark Newsvine Reddit StumbleUpon Technorati Twitter Yahoo! Bookmarks Print AP – A worker walks past one of Boeing's 787 Dreamliners at the production facility in Everett, Wash. on Wednesday …
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By DANIEL LOVERING and GEORGE TIBBITS, Associated Press Writers Daniel Lovering And George Tibbits, Associated Press Writers – 8 mins ago
SEATTLE – Boeing Co. will open a second assembly line for its long-delayed 787 jetliner in South Carolina, expanding beyond its longtime manufacturing base in Washington state to take advantage of economic incentives and a nonunion work force.

The Chicago-based airplane maker said Wednesday it chose the site in North Charleston over Everett, Wash., because it best suited plans to boost production of the highly anticipated jet, designed to carry up to 250 passengers.

The decision ended an interstate competition for the huge factory, with South Carolina prevailing over the state where Boeing has built airplanes for decades. It hands South Carolina production of a plane crucial to Boeing's future but one plagued by problems stemming partly from the company's reliance on suppliers spanning the globe.

South Carolina offered Boeing $170 million in incentives and relief from sales taxes on things like fuel used in test flights.

The move wasn't entirely unexpected. Boeing already operates a factory in North Charleston that makes 787 parts and owns a 50-percent stake in another plant that also produces sections of the plane, Boeing's best-selling new aircraft to date.

About 55 airlines have ordered some 840 of the planes since the program was launched in 2003 — far more than any other Boeing plane at the same stage of development.

Boeing also has long complained about the business climate in Washington and frequent strikes by production workers. At Boeing's plant in North Charleston, workers last month voted against continued representation by the International Association of Machinists.

North Carolina, Kansas, Texas and California were also viewed a competitors for the plant. But Boeing said last week it had narrowed the choices to Washington and South Carolina.

Boeing ultimately could decide to move all 787 production away from Everett, said analyst Scott Hamilton of Leeham Co. The failure of Boeing and the union to reach a no-strike agreement meant Charleston was "a foregone conclusion."

More ominously, Boeing is expected to decide in three to five years on replacement planes for its best-selling 737 and 777 models and where they will be built.

"Over the course of the next decade and-a-half you could see Boeing being just a shadow of itself here," he said, referring to Washington.

Everett is the site of Boeing's commercial aircraft division, where the company has assembled early versions of the 787. Last year, a walkout by union machinists there and at other sites in Washington forced the company to shut its commercial plane operations for eight weeks.

Unlike Boeing's other commercial jets, the 787 will be built mostly from lightweight carbon composite parts instead of aluminum. As a result, the 787 will be more efficient, quieter and have lower emissions than other airplanes, Boeing says. The mid-size plane will include wider seats and aisles, and larger windows.

Boeing has relied on suppliers to build huge sections of the plane that are later assembled in Everett. But that approach so far has proved problematic, with ill-fitting parts and other glitches hampering production.

Boeing has postponed the plane's inaugural test flight and deliveries five times, putting it more than two years behind schedule. The delays have cost Boeing credibility and billions of dollars in anticipated costs and penalties.

The company could break ground in South Carolina as soon as next month, with the first 787 slated to leave the factory in the first quarter of 2012. The company aims to produce 10 of the planes a month by 2013. By comparison, it makes about 31 of its 737s and seven of its popular 777s a month.

South Carolina Gov. Mark Sanford called the plant a "monumental" investment that will spur the state's already-growing aerospace hub.

In Washington, meanwhile, Gov. Chris Gregoire said she and other officials would work hard to land future, larger Boeing projects.

She said the decision came down to Boeing's rocky relationship with the Machinists union and a failure to reach a no-strike deal.

"I'm disappointed, I'm angry, I hurt for the workers and I think the company made the wrong decision," she said. "But I wasn't at the table."

The Machinists' international president, Tom Buffenbarger, denied Boeing's decision was based on concerns over future strikes.

"Corporate decisions like this are years in the making, and this one is no different."

October 29, 2009
1:29 pm
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Kinda wonder what impact this move will have on employment in the SeaTac area.

October 29, 2009
6:15 pm
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greeney2
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Just look at a few other cities as models for what happens. Many cities are build around industries that when they grew, attacted people to come for work. Like
Detroit, the auto industry produced a city that grew and grew. That growth brought people and it brought commerce to those areas. The growth spurs housing to be built, and that spurs the need for schools and shopping centers, stores and restraunts. The subcontract to other small businesses. Most people do not know that a goverment contract requires 20% to be subcontracted out to other suppliers. Thats one benifit the governemtnt wants awarding big military contracts, to know that it will be spread to many other small pockets. It produces taxes that pay for police and firemen. Big companies become the center of areas, sometimes major military bases become the center of an areas lifeblood. The LongBeach navel shipyards, El Toro Marine Base come to mind. Nothing looks worse than a big plant or military base shut down and everything boarded up. These companies are the main reasons for new growth, like Convention centers, Pro-sports teams, Etc. The give to schools, they give to local charities, they give to other cultural growth, such as donating to Museums and Colleges, and other places of learning. They give millions to causes and charities, and they even help build hospital wings.

Simple everyday families get hired, and raise their familiies everyday, doing an important job for their area and for the country. These companies, no matter how much you profess you hate them, are the lifeblood of work, and benifits, if you are lucky enough to find one of those jobs. Cities like Detroit are full of forclosures, and full of crime. Some walk away and start over, but what happens when the lifeblood of the area has either gone out of business or pulls up stakes to go elsewhere? Not only is the main company going to lay off thousands, but thousands of other people who work for subcontractors are out of work. In many cases, without the main company these subcontractors 80% of their work is from the Boeing's of the country. All those little Pizza and Sandwich shops around the plants, that employ hundreds of people will be empty. The loss of a major number of jobs means, supply and demand for housing will drive values down, where more will will end up "upsidedown" on home loans. The future plan is to move more lines to States that want them and out of Seattle. Thats when people will be saying come back, we need you. Why do you think Unions and Labor has said for decades "Buy American", so we wouldn't se saying these kind of things about the Detroits of the country?

October 29, 2009
8:27 pm
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I remember seeing that sort of thing a few times, now. When I got out of the USAF and went back home, I was face-to-face with an Armco Steel mill that cut its employment from 2400 to 650, and the trickle-down from it. A year later and I was in Fontana, and saw the same thing happen with the Kaiser Steel mill, though the area was able (more or less) to absorb the issue. The killing blow came with all the people that were so damnably eager to see Norton AFB close... the San Bernardino area still hasn't really recovered, they didn't realize just how much cash flow was generated by that base; all they'd really counted was the military payroll.

The real surprise to me is that Boeing hadn't pulled out sooner. Wages in the Deep South average about $3-$5 an hour lower than other parts of the country, especially since the labor unions were busted, the Davis-Bacon Act was repealed, and most of these poor sots don't have the means to fight Big Business to improve their quality of life.

In spite of any claims to the contrary, I can see Boeing shifting production just to get out from under the Machinists' Union. Bad for Washington, good for South Carolina. 😕

October 29, 2009
10:58 pm
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greeney2
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Valcan, since you are familiar with Los Angeles, the difference is that LA is not a one company or single industry city. Detroit obviously centers on the auto industry, and I;m not real sure about Seatlle but I think if Boeing totally disappears, they will be devasted like Detroit. You know exactly what I;m talking about in terms of big military bases or military functions, like the navel shipyards. I'm assuming that Seatlle also has a big seaport industry, like San Diego, LA, and San Francisco. Again the foundation of most of it came from military budgets in the build up days. Military budgets affect many many things on the civilian level. One reason your all volunteer military is working is because of the massive amounts of civilian jobs on most of these bases, where many were done by the military years ago.

Those who are fast to curse the "war machine", don't think about just how many jobs that it all represents. Those military contracts also make for the technology and know how that ends up in big commercial contracts. Forinstnace the Boeing war machine that has provided millions of jobs since WW2 in the commerical aircraft production, having nothing to do with war. They are also involved in countless industies creating non-defence related products that are not war related.

One of the biggest considerations leaving one state to take production line that far is all the supporting industies location in or around where you are leaving. That, in addition to loosing the knowledge base of thousands of people, means a new learning curve and extensive training. Aerospace is a complex business, and many programs the average worker is so knowlegable about specifics of certain parts, it is considered critical skills lost. The processes we used at Rocketdyne were very involved, and only certain people were used on very critical jobs. The company and the customer get real concerned when they loose critical skilled people.

October 29, 2009
11:00 pm
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_Billy_
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Our gain, they're coming to Charleston SC.

"Laissez Les Bon Temps Roulez" Let the Good Times Roll

October 31, 2009
7:20 pm
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Nesaie
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Was this directed towards me Greeney? Laugh

The story is that Boeing decided not to expand in this area. The people who currently work there are still employed. They already moved their headquarters to Chicago years ago.

I hate to tell you this, but Boeing has a really bad reputation around here as a company. They hire people and lay them off. They've done this for years. They make sure they use that unemployment socialist crap. As a matter of fact, you don't want Boeing on your resume, it looks bad and can prevent you from getting other jobs. They don't call them the "lazy B" for nothing. God forbid you actually put in a full days work for a full days pay at Boeing, there are people who will "talk" to you about actually working. But, that is what happens in all unions.

I don't care about them opening their second manufacturing line in South Carolina. Most of the manufacturing is already outsourced. That was one of their claims as to why the 787 was so late. Now, the claim is that the unions, not outsourcing, is the cause of the 787 being late. 🙄 Well, they had unions 20 years ago and they weren't late, but they're late now. The only change is that they're now outsourcing. It is just another corporation that murders people and lies.

Remember, would the last person to leave Seattle please turn off the lights?

Such a society would be dominated by an elite, unrestrained by traditional values. Soon it will be possible to assert almost continuous surveillance over every citizen... - Zbigniew Brezhinsky

October 31, 2009
7:30 pm
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Nesaie
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I;m not real sure about Seatlle but I think if Boeing totally disappears, they will be devasted like Detroit.

Actually, Boeing devastated Seattle in the 70's. We have other corporations now, Microsoft, Safeco, Starbucks all come to mind. Because of Microsoft other tech companies like Google and IBM have moved offices here. We don't need Boeing. My parents survived that one because they didn't work for Boeing.

But, other places with ocean front property have been devastated in recent years due to the spotted owl. Aberdeen comes to mind, where Kurt Cobane is from.

As far as Detroit goes, their problem was based on racism, not jobs or employers. I had an aunt who lived in Dearborn...I saw the destruction of Detroit 20 years ago. In Seattle, racism is imported from other segregated cities like LA.

Such a society would be dominated by an elite, unrestrained by traditional values. Soon it will be possible to assert almost continuous surveillance over every citizen... - Zbigniew Brezhinsky

October 31, 2009
8:19 pm
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greeney2
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As usual you do not know what you are talking about concerning Boeing. Late programs are not due to lazy production line workers. Late programs are part of nearly every areospace program, and if you worked in one you would know why the documentation of everything and the paperwork involved is so critical, and time comsuming. Any problem is a big problem, and the customers demand a certain proceedure when problems arise. Customers give a spec. to build by, and those are scrutinized at every step. You are not putting bumpers on cars, or framing houses, where there are little to no controls. Areospace is highly skilled trades, and the nature of the critical steps in most every form of aerospace work, commands the time to produce. IT is a standard totally different from normal manufacturing, you do not understand the processes involoved. Manned space flight is extremely time consuming and meticulas, and nothing is undocumented. The tolerances and criteria, inspections and allowable defects, do not allow a high speed production line, like making trash can lids. People are reluctant to hire laid off aerosplace workers for one reason and it is not due to laziness or due to lack of experience, its due to the fact they all have recall rights up to 5 years. Generally the average aerospace worker in the higher skilled trades, that pay much higher, and require a much higher skill level. Thats why they have recall rights, their skills are from years on industry experience. He is far overqualified for normal job shopping work, but will take an interim job for a paycheck while he knows a recall will come. That is part of aerospace work! The nature of job shops work, which is high production, much less tolerance requirments, and a much lower skill level of work/ finished product. When they get a recall they have to take it, or forfiet it. Are you going to stay working for a job shop that underpays and gives no benifits, and you are doing production work benieth your skill level? A job shop, machine or welding shop, is concerned with quanity production where quality standards are nowhere near the skill levels of aerospace. Most have never seen the kind of proceedures involved with that skill level of work.

You may have your opinion, but its not from a position of being one of the thousands laid off and seeing their work to another state. It doesn't affect you, but it will affect Seattle, denying it won't is simply not true.

October 31, 2009
8:41 pm
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Nesaie
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As usual you do not know what you are talking about concerning Boeing. Late programs are not due to lazy production line workers.

And once again, you're putting words in my mouth.

I said, the company, that would be Boeing, claimed originally that the reason the 787 was delayed was due to outsourcing. But, now they're blaming the union.

As far as lazy, they do call Boeing the "lazy B". There was even a restaurant called the Lazy Bee in Renton, but they're out of business now. They lost their lazy B clientele when Boeing moved that plant. Why is Boeing called the "lazy B"?

As far as "highly skilled"... Laugh I can turn levers and screwdrivers too.

Having Boeing on a resume is a detriment to finding jobs. That is just a fact of life around here and everyone knows it.

Such a society would be dominated by an elite, unrestrained by traditional values. Soon it will be possible to assert almost continuous surveillance over every citizen... - Zbigniew Brezhinsky

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