The Black Vault

I'm inclined to agree with you. Does that strengthen your connection to deity? Where does that leave you?

En-Lugal wrote:I'm inclined to agree with you. Does that strengthen your connection to deity? Where does that leave you?

It opens my mind to the possibility that the account of God in the Bible is true and accurate. Or, at least, more is true than I thought. It opens my mind to the possibility that God's love is not at all like human love.

In every frame of your memory, there was something that most accurately symbolized God, although "most accurately" may be relatively inaccurate. Sometimes it's a clock. Maybe a bee. Or a source of light. A person on occasion. Sometimes the entire frame is the best symbol for God. That's when the connection feels strong. I am tethered to the earth but floating far beyond the stars.

at1with0 wrote:

En-Lugal wrote:I'm inclined to agree with you. Does that strengthen your connection to deity? Where does that leave you?

It opens my mind to the possibility that the account of God in the Bible is true and accurate. Or, at least, more is true than I thought. It opens my mind to the possibility that God's love is not at all like human love.

In every frame of your memory, there was something that most accurately symbolized God, although "most accurately" may be relatively inaccurate. Sometimes it's a clock. Maybe a bee. Or a source of light. A person on occasion. Sometimes the entire frame is the best symbol for God. That's when the connection feels strong. I am tethered to the earth but floating far beyond the stars.

So small things we take for granted like the bee can trigger the same response that a panoramic of the universe, as far as we can see at present, and connect one to deity. The flesh is here on this earth but our intelligence, our soul, may actually be beyond the universe of/or man's understanding and connected in ways even further away from our understanding. The clue may reside in the way which our brain sees and decodes symbolism. Is that an accurate interpretation?

En-Lugal wrote:So small things we take for granted like the bee can trigger the same response that a panoramic of the universe, as far as we can see at present, and connect one to deity.

I don't know if that's a question but if it is, the answer is yes. Something as small as a bee can trigger that response.

The flesh is here on this earth but our intelligence, our soul, may actually be beyond the universe of/or man's understanding and connected in ways even further away from our understanding. The clue may reside in the way which our brain sees and decodes symbolism. Is that an accurate interpretation?

Yes.

Sometimes I'm reminded of the Chinese Room scenario and what it might feel like for the person stuck with just symbolic decoding all their lives to leave the room.

at1with0 wrote:I don't know if that's a question but if it is, the answer is yes. Something as small as a bee can trigger that response.

It was a supposition on my part and I should have placed a question mark at the end. It's a nasty habit.

at1with0 wrote:Yes.

Sometimes I'm reminded of the Chinese Room scenario and what it might feel like for the person stuck with just symbolic decoding all their lives to leave the room.

I think I had a similar experience once. My friend and I once watched hours of Telemundo because we picked it up on the coat hangar antennae. Needless to say, when we finally changed the channel and started watching programs in our own language, despite our everyday exposure to it, the information was quite a bit more vibrant!

Those responses come in all shapes and sizes.

The concept of Deity is that Deity is Sovereign and we are subject.

Man in his infinite wisdom...decides that man is Sovereign and Deity is subject.

In language and history this is called Demigod or Demigods. Man working his way by logic, by reason, by intelligence, by wisdom to becoming god or gods. Therefore mans wisdom and all of the above is god.

Another version of this is..."I will be like the most high." " I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation in the sides of the north."


The record from the Word is that man had become so defiled and so corrupted by his wisdom that there were only 8 people (Noah and his family) to be found who were not so corrupted by man's intelligence...man's ways.

Anything that man imagined to do ...he did and defiled himself and his generations.

This is an view and understanding never brought up by people trying to debate this line of thought about genocide and murder. It never will be brought up in an effort to disguise the history of this world and attempt to default through without thought and without debate.

What people attempting to default and deceive on this topic also do not discuss....is that again today ..man in his intelligence is attempting to defile himself again...and return by logic, by reason, by intelligence..by wisdom ...back to the status of what was before the Flood. If you watch carefully ...what is going on around you ...you can feel and see the pulse of this return to mans wisdom and intelligence and pre Flood conditions of total defilement.
And what is even worse...our leadership is helping us to accomplish this ..by logic, by reason, by wisdom, by intelligence, by "Enlightenment."


And furthermore concerning man's intelligence, wisdom, logic and reason....here is another one for those still capable of thinking and with a knowledge of history.

The anti god countries and nations ..have killed more of their own people and at a faster rate than ever before in the history of men. Since the "Enlightenment" more people have been killed in this world and at a faster rate by men of intelligence ...logic and reason...by their own governments...not in wars...wars are something extra...but by their own governments.

This is called "Democide."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democide

Notice this line about 3/4 of the way down the article..it is very telling of man's intelligence, wisdom, and logic.

His research shows that the death toll from democide is far greater than the death toll from war. After studying over 8,000 reports of government-caused deaths, Rummel estimates that there have been 262 million victims of democide in the last century. According to his figures, six times as many people have died from the inflictions of people working for governments than have died in battle

Once you understand what is being talked about here ..you will never again be fooled and deceived by those trying to default through on such debate points.

This view and understanding too...will never be discussed or raised in postings like this by those wanting to put the onus off on God. For they can only replace it with man made chaos...and good cop bad cop.

The historical name for this is "Confusion."

Thanks,
Orangetom

If you believe in a God and the flood, then not only did God allow genocide to happen, God caused the genocide.

If you believe in a God but not the flood, then, yes, mankind perpetrates genocide and God allows it to happen.

Your point seems to be that mankind, rather than God, perpetrated genocide (in the form of democide). Yes, I would agree that mankind perpetrates genocide. My point is that whatever God you believe in allows it to happen. Many will nod their head with that and say they'd rather have free will than no genocide/democide allowed.

at1with0 wrote:If you believe in a God and the flood, then not only did God allow genocide to happen, God caused the genocide.

If you believe in a God but not the flood, then, yes, mankind perpetrates genocide and God allows it to happen.

Your point seems to be that mankind, rather than God, perpetrated genocide (in the form of democide). Yes, I would agree that mankind perpetrates genocide. My point is that whatever God you believe in allows it to happen. Many will nod their head with that and say they'd rather have free will than no genocide/democide allowed.

My apologies for the delay in getting back to this thread as my schedule has been hectic of late.

I am reading your post with a bit of astonishment at the assumption made as a starting point.

The nature of God is that He is sovereign and we are subject.

You are using a starting position that God is subject and men are sovereign and passing judgement on God.


The same defilement and ruination of the land which happened at the time of Noah...is returning again today with "Enlightened " men attempting to follow the same pattern as the "Enlightened" men of the time of Noah.


What is also known by those with any grasp at all of history is that as soon as the flood was over and the earth began to repopulate...men once again attempted to defile themselves and their generations...even human sacrifice...particularly the young...unsoiled...pure..without blemish. This knowledge and "Enlightenment" is carefully hidden from most peoples by "Public Education" non standards but you can find it with a bit of digging...and it is even in the Word for those who know what they are reading.

Man in his "Enlightenment" by reason, by logic , by Entitlement. would have God as subject and men as sovereign. By man's will..by free will.

You also make an assumption that we deserve good things....that we are good people and therefore deserve and are entitled to good things...therefore we hold God accountable ..by our reason, by our logic ..by our free will..by our Enlightenment by our Entitlement.


I don't believe in free will...I believe in Sovereign Grace.

The history of men reads that men left to their own devices will defile themselves very quickly in their quest for power over other men. They will hide what they are doing in haughty speeches and also re writing what the Word states...re teaching what the Word says and replacing it with the traditions of men.

Men by their very logic and reason ...will try to pass judgement on God while totally avoiding and hiding/concealing what they do and have done on their own merits and demerits. They by logic and reason...put the onus on God for everything their mind can imagine..while concealing and never revealing the track record of men's logic and reason...men's history.

Putting the onus off on a Sovereign God is very similar to what our leaders are doing today with a very complicit media to cover for them. So that people do not think for themselves..but emote according to a program...

It must be Bush's fault...four years later....on all counts. It is the blame game or tradition of intelligent/enlightened men rather than take responsibility.

When you see enough of this kind of thing...you began to see a pattern here.


I think ..therefore I am...

I don't think so...more like..

I am therefore I can think.

A 180 degree difference in the starting point.

The starting point and assumptions made from there make all the difference in where you go and what happens when you get there.



I do not pass judgement on God because I believe in a Sovereign God..not a subject God....that is not my business..passing judgement on God.

But I can pass judgement on the wisdom/traditions of men...and men's history and find most of it to be wanting.

Hope this helps and clarifies,
Orangetom

Where did I judge God? It's a fact that whatever God you believe in allows genocide. Nothing you said disputes that.