The Black Vault Message Forums

Discover the Truth!        

General Discussion Topics

Giving Tips

The Black Vault Message Forums has a considerable number of niche forums to place your post. If you can not find a home for it, and the topic doesn't fit anywhere else, then post it here.

Postby greeney2 » Wed Jan 30, 2013 12:44 pm

I just posted an article in religion about a Pastor who objected to paying 18% tip automatically placed on his portion of a bill of a party of 20 people. Usually parties over 8 this is done in most places, at least in California. Not sure about other states. Both my kids worked as servers and because of that, I learned a few things many people do not realize about servers. Their W-2 forms reflect 15% of the totals of all their checks, accounting for the fact many tips are in cash on the table and only the CC tips actually show. So they tax them on 15%. I think they can keep a daily log as the alternative, but most do not. They also kickback a portion of their tips to the busboys I'm pretty sure.

Raises the question about how much, and how to tip in a sit down table service eatery? How much is appropriate, and how do you determine what % is proper for the place you are in. Does the server deserve a bigger tip if you ordered the most expensive thing on the menu? ARe chain coffee shops a different level than a high end steak or fish house, as far as you tip % is concerned. Should you just tip by straight %.

We all feel obligated to tip because we know that is how they earn a living. It is a business usually with no benefits or paid days off whatsoever, so should we be more generous? The owners of these places would be embarrassed to admit what their revenue is, and justify a system where zero benifits are provided. These people work on their feet, take all kinds of guff and abuse, and are exposed to sick people everyday.

Some people think, why should I pay the help to carry my food from the kitchen to my table, make sure my drink is full, and get me what I need for my meal. I should expect to be waited on in a sit down place.

What about buffets, or places where you order in line and pay first, but have a server bring your food and refill you drinks? What about a common tip jar in places like Starbucks?

What about tipping at the car wash? They do not charge $2.95 to wash a car now, its is more like $12.95 and up, and only a clean car comes out clean. How many times have you taken your car in dirty, and it is still dirty after? It comes out of the wash, and a guy with a bucket, rags, and cleaners, spends 10 minutes wiping and detailing your car, cleaning the glass, and then expects a tip, after you just paid an arm and a leg, to have your car washed? Rather ludicras, to expect I should pay the help to finish washing the car after running it through the machine doesn't make it come clean.
greeney2
 
Posts: 9572
Joined: Thu Apr 09, 2009 11:54 am

Postby at1with0 » Wed Jan 30, 2013 2:28 pm

I usually give near 15%.
"it is easy to grow crazy"
User avatar
at1with0
 
Posts: 9182
Joined: Thu Apr 09, 2009 5:55 pm
Location: the coproduct of the amalgam of all structures

Postby Dragoness » Wed Jan 30, 2013 2:39 pm

I usually give 20% or more. I also notice some fast food restaurants have put tip jars. Not usually who I would tip. After all they get paid more than a waiter or waitress. As for buffet, I usually tip about $1.00 per person, though that would be dependant on how often they might come back to check on me. If they helped me out a lot I would give more.
User avatar
Dragoness
 
Posts: 83
Joined: Fri Jan 11, 2013 7:59 pm
Location: Melbourne, Florida

Postby greeney2 » Thu Jan 31, 2013 12:10 pm

I think people in the east have more places they have to tip someone. I think an automatic adding of 18% for large parties is a little excessive, but it is pretty much understood it is what they do with large parties. Usually more than one server will do a big table, and it does take some extra duty on their part.
greeney2
 
Posts: 9572
Joined: Thu Apr 09, 2009 11:54 am

Postby greeney2 » Sat Feb 02, 2013 7:09 pm

What is customary now for a delivery driver, when they also charge a delivery fee?
greeney2
 
Posts: 9572
Joined: Thu Apr 09, 2009 11:54 am

Postby blackvault » Sat Feb 02, 2013 7:31 pm

I found this on TripAdvisor, and thought I would post it:

TripAdvisor.com wrote:United States: Tipping & Etiquette

While tipping is not mandatory in the United States, it is expected in certain circumstances for reasonable service, and may reflect one's upbringing.

You should tip:

$1-5 for skycaps, bellhops, doormen, and parking valets, $1 per coat for coatroom attendants, $2-5 per night for housekeeper, $5-10 for concierge (only if they arranged tickets or reservations), $1-3 per bag for grocery loaders.
For waiters at sit-down restaurants, bartenders, barbers/hairdressers/attendants at beauty salons, taxi drivers, and food delivery folks, the tip should be calculated as a percentage of your total bill as follows: 10% usually means you are very unhappy, 15% usually means all was ok, 20% for excellent, 25% for outstanding.
Ignore sales tax when calculating tips.
Note that if you have more than one person serving you at these establishments, the percentage represents the total tip and should be split amongst all who serve you.
Tips should only go to people who are helpful. If they don't help you, don't tip them.
In some places a clearly displayed "Service Charge" or "Gratuity" might be automatically added to a bill, especially for party sizes of 8 or more. Check your bill for these charges before tipping.

(These recommendations are based on ones provided by the Emily Post Institute. For those who are interested in etiquette in the USA, most Americans refer to Emily Post or Amy Vanderbilt for the final word on manners.)

For further insights, discussions, and recommendations on tipping, see below:

Restaurants with table service: Tip 15% of the bill, based on the quality of service. If you receive exceptional service, 15-25% is customary. In major cities of the U.S. however, 20% is considered to be a "good tip".

Please note that in *some* states, restaurants are allowed to pay their servers as low as $2.13 per hour. This base wage varies among states, for example, Massachusetts pays $2.63, Connecticut $5, and California $8. Service is almost never included in the bill. If it is it will say "Gratuity" with an amount next to it. It is customary, unlike much of the rest of the world, for your service to not be included. This is true of normal restaurants and also buffets.

Unlike many countries, service is usually not included in the bill with the exception of large parties (typically six or more people). If you're with a large party, be sure to check your bill just in case. 15% - 20% is often automatically charged for a large party (six or more). If the tip is included, the breakdown of the bill will read "gratuity", which means that a tip is already included. As always, if you feel you did not receive 15% service, inform the management before paying your bill and have it adjusted to the adequate amount.

A good rule of thumb when calculating a table service restaurant tip is to ignore sales tax, and, for good service, calculate 15% of the entire food, beverage, and wine bill. (This is the amount listed before the sales tax line.) Add 20% if the service was outstanding, especially prompt or friendly, or the server fulfilled many special requests. Note: in most larger restaurants in the USA, the server has to pay back a portion of their tips to the bartender, busser, hostess, and food runners. A good rule of thumb is: if you see people other than your server helping maintain or clean tables, serve wine, or deliver food, those people are being tipped by your server for their work. In resort areas like Disney World, it is usually 3% to 5% of the server's total food, beverage and alcohol sales, so the tip should be adjusted accordingly. At higher end restaurants, there may also be a sommelier or wine steward. You should tip the sommelier separately, at your discretion. However, in some restaurants, the server tips the sommelier based on their individual wine sales, so it is advisable to ask your server first. Individual drinks you are served at a restaurant bar should always earn a $1-2 tip each.

In most states, sales tax is applied to the bill and is clearly indicated as such on the bill. In those states where the tax is 5% (Massachusetts as an example) or 6% it is simple to calculate the tip by rounding the tax up or down to the nearest dollar and then multiplying by three.

It is worth mentioning that New York restaurants have started adding automatic gratuity even though the number of people eating is far less than 6. Even with a group of three, gratuity of 20% may be automatically added both in restaurants and in 'pubs'. The automatic gratuity is also becoming common in areas that are highly tourist-oriented, such as the Grand Canyon. It is important to always check one's bills!

For buffet restaurants, a tip of 15% to 20% of the bill is still recommended because the servers often work harder than in normal restaurants. They may not take orders or bring out food, but they do work hard keeping your table clean of the empty plates after multiple trips to the buffet line. In addition to this, they often help to keep the buffet line stocked and clean, and they make coffee, brew tea, etc. Remember that the minimum tip for any server should be $1 per person. Do not leave only 75 cents for a $5.00 buffet! As always, if you feel you have not been well-served, adjust the gratuity down. If a tip has been added to your bill beforehand because your party was 6 or more, but the server was inadequate or rude, inform the manager immediately before you pay your bill that you want the tip adjusted.

For bad or unacceptable service it is customary to tip as low as 10%. If service is bad enough to deserve only 10%, it is a good idea to let the manager know. Also, placing 2 pennies side by side on top of bills neatly placed on the table lets the server know that it is intentionally low because of bad service. If the server in some way offended you so that you do not wish to leave any tip at all, still leave the 2 pennies, so that they understand that you did not just forget to tip.

Counter service/fast food restaurants often have tip jars out, but you are not required to tip. If the service is exemplary or unusual requests are made, then tips are appropriate.

Bartenders:$1 - $2 per drink, or 15-20% of the total bill. If you tip well and consistently at bars and pubs, you are likely to recieve a drink on the house, known sometimes as a "buy back." This typically occurs after the 3rd drink you buy. Some bartenders will still use the "old school" signal of leaving an upside-down shot glass near your spot at the bar, especially if you are engaged in conversation or if the place is very noisy, but it's not that common anymore. Turn the shot glass over when you want the free drink. Even though the drink is free, the labor isn't. Don't forget to tip on the "buy back."

Other optional tipping situations common to travelers include:

Hotel housekeeping/maid service: $2-3 per night up to $5, more in high-end hotels. Also more if there are more than 3 people in a room or suite. Leave the tip on your pillow or in a similar obvious place with a note that says thank you. Leave the tip each day when you leave the room, rather than at the end of your stay, because your room might get cleaned by different people each day, depending on staff schedules. If you have additional items delivered to your room, such as extra pillows, hangers, luggage racks, tip the person who brings them $2 or $3.
Concierge: Tipping is never expected, but always appreciated. The more difficult the request, the higher the tip. $5.00 and up per request is good.
In-suite dining waiter: Always read the bill, if there is a tip included, it will be on the bill breakdown. Ask the server. The policy of having the gratuity included in the bill is not the norm anymore. A service charge or convenience fee goes to the hotel, not the server. If there is no gratuity added, tip the server 15% - 20%.
Bellman/Porter: $1-2 per bag. More if the bags are very heavy.
Taxi Driver: 10-15% of fare, based on service.
Hotel limo driver: For a free ride from the airport, $10 - $20
Drink Server in a casino or bar: $1-$2 per drink. Some tip $5 for the first drink to make sure the waitress "remembers" them and returns often...
Valet Parking Attendants: $2 - $5 (when picking up car).
Dealers at Table Games in the Casinos: 5% of bet amount at end of session, or occasional bet for dealer in amount of your normal wager-dealer can show you where to place bet. You could announce " I have a $xx bet for the dealers, where do you want it?". The bet is usually placed in front of the player's bet. If you're concerned about having your bets rated for comps, place the additional bet on top of your own and tell the dealer that part of your bet is in play for the dealer and as long as your hands keep winning, keep toking the dealer with the winnings from that portion of the bet. The initial bet amount would be $1 - $5.
Slot machines host: $10-20 if they make a hand payout (over $1000).
Spa: For a massage or other treatment, 10% - 20%. Ask if the tip has been included, some spas will include a gratuity on your final bill. Most spas will provide you with an envelope to leave at the reception desk for the person who gave you your treatment. Also, if you wish to leave a small gratuity for the spa attendant who showed you around the Spa and got you situated, it is well appreciated, $2 to $5.
Hairdresser/manicurist: 10% - 20%.
Showroom captains: $1-2 for the person who seats you, more if you asked for "special" seating - $20 for a requested booth or table, more for one up front. Unfortunately this is where the fine line between tipping and bribery meet...
Tour Guides: 15% - 20% + depending on quality (knowledge, friendliness, etc)



The Americano-centric point of view is below on tipping:

Why are you expected to tip in the USA?

In *many* states in the USA, waitstaff and bartenders in restaurants are paid below the minimum wage, because the employees are expected to make up the difference, so to speak, in tips. This means that a server could earn far above minimum wage on a good night, or hardly break even on a slow night. Servers are even expected to pay income tax on your tips -- they truly are part of their normal wages for the job they do, not just "extra" money for them.

Always leave tips in cash, handing them directly to the person you are tipping, whenever feasible This makes certain that the right person is rewarded, and that the establishment itself cannot skim a portion of your tip by assessing the employee a percentage of what you tipped on the credit card. Many places are legally able to do this now, so, unless you absolutely need to charge the tip for business reasons, a cash tip is almost always better for the tipee. But the reason that Servers prefer tips in cash is the fact that they can avoid declaring the income on their Tax Returns and avoid paying the Income tax and other payroll taxes on the amount. (Some do declare it, some don't).

All 50 states have different minimum wage laws. Some allow employers to pay less than the state's minimum wage to tipped staff, others do not. Federal employment compensation law requires that if employers pay less than minimum wage, tips must bring compensation up to the minimum wage or the employer must make up the difference. Therefore, no server legally makes below the federal minimum wage in the U.S. regardless of the amount of tips received.

Many staff in Las Vegas are unionized, with benefits and high wages as well as getting tips. These few are at the top of the industry and can make a six figure income. Tips are expected regardless of what state you are in or what wages the staff are paid. For better or for worse, tipping has become a part of most hospitality worker's pay.

Tipping in the USA is something you get the hang of after you do it a while. After a couple of days, you'll be able to gauge when you receive stellar service, or whether someone is "phoning it in." If you are mistreated anywhere, you must inform a manager. Don't tip poor service - let someone know you were unhappy, even if you just leave a note to the server as to why there is no tip added to the bill.

Source: http://www.tripadvisor.com/Travel-g191- ... uette.html
-----
John Greenewald, Jr.
The Black Vault Website Owner / Operator
http://www.theblackvault.com
User avatar
blackvault
 
Posts: 1746
Joined: Wed Aug 26, 2009 4:04 pm
Location: North Hollywood, Ca.

Postby Halfabo » Sun Feb 03, 2013 2:04 am

A tip, more properly called a gratuity, is money given in gratitude of prompt and courteous service. The amount of the gratuity is determined by how grateful I am for that service. It is not determined by how much the server thinks their services are worth. When a tip becomes a mandatory part of the bill, it is no longer a gratuity, it is extortion. I will never pay a mandatory tip imposed by anyone. Not only will the establishment lose the tip they will also lose my business.

I have heard many restaurant workers claim that they should receive a twenty percent tip. And seen those same workers give service with one percent enthusiasm and courtesy. A tip is not something that a server is entitled to, it is something they have to earn. I have also had waiters and waitresses that I have given as much as fifty percent of the bill as a tip, because they have gone above and beyond all expectations I have had for being served.

I believe that adding a mandatory tip to any bill should be illegal. The servers are compensated for their service. It's called a paycheck. The gratuity, to be a gratuity, has to be left to the discretion of the customer, not the worker.
Halfabo
 
Posts: 647
Joined: Thu Apr 09, 2009 11:54 am

Postby blackvault » Sun Feb 03, 2013 9:32 am

Although I don't disagree with some of what you said, Halfabo, but before I respond, can I ask if you've ever worked in a restaurant and waited on tables?
-----
John Greenewald, Jr.
The Black Vault Website Owner / Operator
http://www.theblackvault.com
User avatar
blackvault
 
Posts: 1746
Joined: Wed Aug 26, 2009 4:04 pm
Location: North Hollywood, Ca.

Postby greeney2 » Sun Feb 03, 2013 12:22 pm

Interesting how the idea of tips tends to only be in personal service related jobs. I worked 12 years as a service manager, and head motorcycle mechanic, but that is an industry where tips are never given. Curious why if the waiters and waitress usually tip back to their busboys a %age, why doesn't the Chef deserve shared tips? Not sure about the Hostess. If the Chef fails nobody deserves a tip.

The entire concept has grown into a pretty major mindset, that all service personal are grossly underpaid by their employers. That was not really common knowledge, and when tips were left, it was based on gratitude, not expected. I think life in the big cities like New York city are very tip oriented, it is not a very cheap place to live anyway. Los Angeles does not have doormen, bellhops in motels, or too much Cab service, so not as intense as other cities. We always expect to tip in sit down waited on places, but never at places like fast foods.

Our Dentist has a 12 story building where you have to get valet parking, and the adjoining streets, no way can you park. Big sign, free valet parking and you have no choice but to use it. I'm sure all the Doctors have it factored into their rent.
greeney2
 
Posts: 9572
Joined: Thu Apr 09, 2009 11:54 am

Postby orangetom1999 » Sun Feb 03, 2013 6:02 pm

Halfabo,

See my post in the thread on Religion and Spirituality titled.."Surprised this never came up before-tips." Just posted it before this one.

You may find it interesting.

Orangetom
orangetom1999
 
Posts: 1196
Joined: Thu Feb 18, 2010 2:25 am

Next

Return to General Discussion Topics

  • View new posts
  • View unanswered posts
  • Who is online
  • In total there are 3 users online :: 0 registered, 0 hidden and 3 guests (based on users active over the past 10 minutes)
  • Most users ever online was 292 on Mon Apr 23, 2012 3:19 pm
  • Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests