The Black Vault

[Saber]

Recently a bible debate forum held in England which had over five hundred bible scholars form around the world participate, both of Jewish and Christian beliefs, concluded that the 70th week of years of the bible book Daniel was split into distinct times of tribulation. This was accomplished by using scripture to prove scripture. These two seperate times of tribulation are now clearly seen as one being at the very end of the church age, presently nearing one and all of this earth and the other at the very end of the millennium, the thousand year reign of Christ.

What has now been established:

The first time of tribulation consists of 1260 days at the present end of this era of grace, Church of Christ Jesus. It is easy to see in prophecy as a time when Satan is cast out of heaven to this earth and the beast and false prophet are mentioned as well. The prophecies that contain such references belong to this time of tribulation.

The second time of tribulation consists of 1290 days. This being at the very end of the millennial reign of Christ when Satan is let loose from the Abyss. All prophecies which contain this reference to Satan plus the temple of GOD which only exists at the very end of this millennial reign belong to this time of tribulation. Thus the 70th week of years that the book of Daniel mentions is complete.

The additional 45 days that the book of Daniel mentions are for the throne judgments. Thus those that not only survive the 1290 days of this last time of tribulation but also the 45 days of the throne judgments as well, the 1335 day, are blessed to enter the new heaven, earth and Jerusalem as the apostle Paul mentions in 1 Corinthians 15:51--.

These scholars concluded that there is one and only one rapture mentioned in all of scripture. The rapture at the very end of all time on this planet into the new of everything as was previously mentioned. Thus all present day rapture theroies are false.

These findings created such a controversy that the site which had listed these debate results had to be removed from the www.

There should be no doubt as to who most apposed these findings, the oldest and long established denominations of Christian beliefs, as they have the most face to loose. Not to mention all those based upon the all-fly-away pre-tribulation false rapture theroies.

From what is presently known, those ministries which base their teachings on the first century church model will be the first to reconstruct their teachings upon these new findings.

Where to take your stand:

On the plain and simple truths of GOD's words.

These scolars did prove scripture with scripture as one and all can do and see for themselves, just as they had done. So read your bible, GOD's words, for yourself and see and know just where to take your stand in these last days.

What these bible scholars also agreed upon:

The reason for misunderstanding these simple truths of GOD's words for so long.

Those of Jewish faith were the first to receive these prophecies. From the last three thousand years of these prophecies being first given, commentary about and on them were based soully upon the Jewish point of view, thus lacking at the time given, the knowledge of the era of grace, the present age of the Church of Christ Jesus.

When the era of grace, present church age began with Christ Jesus, early Christians based their understandings of these prophecies upon the first to comment upon them, those of Jewish belief only. Thus being in error, or lacking there proper understanding, for the last two thousand years. It was all that simple to see from previous Jewish and early Christian commentary being the same. Both lacking the insight into this present church age and the conclusion of it. That is the end of the church age of grace and the return of GOD's favor toward His chosen people, Israel.

Now I see the possibility of not just one but two religious wars and as many as three. The first being based upon these new revelations into an upon these simple truths of GOD's words of prophecy. Between old well established denominations of the old beliefs and the new. Than as always between bible believing and non-bible believing faiths as well as between the lose of favor of the Christian for the return of GOD's favor for the Jewish people, GOD's first love. We're all in for a real nightmare as I now see it, with all these differences between religions coming to a head and not to mention Satan being cast out of heaven to this earth to boot. Wear your helmet, there is going to be a ruff ride just ahead for the all of us. Believer and non-believer alike.

[Dark-Samus]

As I`ve said, humans haven´t learned a damn thing ever since they set foot on this planet.

[Questioner101]

Mere hic-ups in the blip of time. Kabbalahists....all. (Using Arabian math no less.)

[Dark-Samus]

No, just ignorant little bugs without a brain.

[qmark]

Explain again why the first 1260 days are to be seperated from the last 1290 days.

That is the end of the church age of grace and the return of GOD's favor toward His chosen people, Israel.

Here is God's chosen people:

For he is not a Jew who is one outwardly, nor is circumcision that which is outward in the flesh.
But he is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is that which is of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the letter; and his praise is not from men, but from God.

For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek; for the same Lord is Lord of all, abounding in riches for all who call on Him;

There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free man, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus.

. . . put on the new self who is being renewed to a true knowledge according to the image of the One who created him--
a renewal in which there is no distinction between Greek and Jew, circumcised and uncircumcised, barbarian, Scythian, slave and freeman, but Christ is all, and in all.
So, as those who have been chosen of God, holy and beloved, . . .

Those who are in Christ Jesus, and He in them, are God's chosen people.

[Saber]

qmark

I will have to first explain myself. I am a plain an simple bible buff. I was looking for just that on the www when I came across this debate summary which from what I saw and learned was just what I was looking for. Plain and simple truths of God's words, easy enough for a child to understand, especially about these last days. I was most displeased to find upon my return to this posting that it had been removed, the reason being the controversy it created. I can only work from memory now as I failed to download this to my computer as I wanted hard copy. In only the time it took for me to get printer ink, it was gone.

This is what I now have and see from this debate summary. There are seven years of tribulation which make up the last, 70th week, of Daniels prophecies. Most all past bible scholars took them as running consecutively, that is all at one time, though Daniel presents them as two seperate events. Past scholars saw these two times of tribulation as the same event just seen by Daniel in two differant ways and not the two differant times of tribulation as they are.

Going to the bible book Revelation you can more clearly see these two times of tribulation, though the second appears uneventful as little is exponded as it is noted in Chapter 20, verses 7,8 & 9.

At this present time we are nearing the end of the church age, thus the time of tribulation that the bible clearly notes that will follow this time of grace, the church age of Christ Jesus. Most all present Christian teachings have the seven full years of tribulation charted out on a timeline containing just that, seven full years. What they are unknowingly trying to do, is to fit all that is to happen in these two distinct times of tribulation, instead of keeping them seperate to themselves, into this one great time(7years) of tribulation. It just doesn't happen that way.

Thankfully this can all be seen by anyone who reads the bible for themselves. All one needs to know and see is that two distinct times of tribulation make up Daniel's 70th week of years. The book of Daniel gives the length of the second time of tribulation which begins at the end of the millennial reign of Christ, that being 1290 days. All know the beginning and the end of this time of tribulation. It is the beginning of the first time of tribulation that no man knows, except God. Though the length is given in the bible book Revelation, Chapter 12. There are major differances between these two times of tribulation so all prophecies that mention tribulation can be easily sorted into their proper order of happening. That being at the end of the church age or durning the tribulation at the end of the millenium.

The first distinction being Satan cast out of heaven and the beast and false prophet are mentioned togeather only durning the time of the tribulation as the church age ends. All prophecies that mention a temple are speaking about the time of tribulation at the very end of the millenium, when and only when the temple is most present. Not just any temple of man can be defiled, only the temple of GOD can be defiled. So any nonsense about the Jews need to build the temple first before the tribulation begins is just that, nonsense. Also don't look for two wittnesses standing before any temple as well, that doesn't happen till the second time of tribulation at the millennial end as well.

I am most certain you can see most clearly now just how screwed up all present teachings are about the tribulation that is near upon us.

When prophecy mentions Satan alone coming up from the Abyss, this is a prophecy of the millennial end time tribulation. All of Chapter 11 in the book of Revelation speaks about this time of tribulation, and not the post church age tribulation we all are presently facing. Though Chapter 11 mentions both 1260 days and 42 months, it belongs to the millennial end time of tribulation as there is more than enough time for these events to happen there as well, being that this second time of tribulation lasts 1290 days. The remaining 30 days just need to play out, that is all. Just pay attention to details about Satan, where he is coming from, and all those that are standing with him as well.

Ezekiel gives a most clear prophecy of these two distinct times of tribulation, first in chapter 38 he speaks about the millennial end time tribulation. Than in Chapter 39 Ezekiel speaks about the end of the church age time of tribulation.

I'm sure that is enough for now, later...

[Saber]

qmark

My initial post was due to the fact that I was searching for plain and easy to understand truths of God's word and having found such, they were most quickly removed. Just who would want everyone who is searching for such truth to be left in the dark? Now as any can see all who merely misunderstood God's words for so long is no big deal. However if you presently have a corner on the market of souls, as it were, would you want to just let it all go? I see billions of dollars at stake taking a much higher cause for concern than any care and concern for the eternal fate of one and all of bible belief.

Now concerning God's shift of favor. That being for a time given to one and all in Christ Jesus, Jew and gentile alike. We are presently the wild olive branch that has been grafted into the family of God. We will not be cast out, just that the natural branch will be once again put back in place, thus receiving once again, God's favor. Very plain to see in all of the bible.

Now there are those that see this as a just cause for concern, take the Germans for example. Get rid of them Jews and God will not have any choice but to let us rule and reign the earth forever. This was what Hitler preached. If it nearly worked so well in the past, who is to say we will not see this all again. Though from what I understand, this time around, that is durning this time of tribulation at the end of the church age, it will be both Jew and gentile alike, in Christ Jesus/Christians who will suffer such trials.

It is not all that hard to know from being as we are, the minority, within the worlds population, if we should loose our strength. That is North America and Europe being the seat of present day Christian power. Say for instance that a super volcano such as the likes of Yellowstone were to go off, just who would be most effected and where? What would the world's reaction to such an event be? Seize the day, or come to our rescue?

These are the days to have a most clear understanding of God's words as possible. As only God knows the fate of one and all. Be prepared by having all that is possible to be known from God's words. That is a most fair way to have it be. Though, once again, I am most upset with those who try and block the way to plain and simple understandings of God's words. We each can decide for ourselves, that is if the way is clear and knowable!

How is that possible if the way is blocked and barred from being known?

I have to add that a ministry known for going after old hardline denominations for their long proven track record of preaching and teaching error came to my mind. I contacted these folks to see if they had anything new. They were in the process of a total overhaul of their present ministry. They had many teaching materials and books along the old seven years of tribulation timeline which were needing to be edited or discarded in light of what they now know. So there is hope. In my own studies I see major changes as well in a more easy an fuller knowledge of plain and simple truths.

[Halfabo]

The way is clear and knowable. However most people prefer to not know. There is only one clear distinct path to follow, most however refuse to follow it. Such is the future of mankind.

[hxxx]

The way is clear and knowable. However most people prefer to not know. There is only one clear distinct path to follow, most however refuse to follow it. Such is the future of mankind.

Lemme guess...

You happen to know the way AND happen to be following the one clear distinct path.

Am I right?

[screamzero]

That his biz has squat to do w/ your vision ain't it. Thanks for shoin' usssss all you know...the least of which was abstract. Imagination fart.