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Is Our Existence An Endless Cycle

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Postby frrostedman » Wed Jul 30, 2014 9:20 pm

I don't know how to create a poll anymore so I will simply ask:

Many philosophies see time, existence, and reality as moving in a cyclical pattern with no beginning and no end; a ceaseless cycle of birth and rebirth. Imagine a circle. Round and round it goes.

My question is: Does the bible support this philosophy? Yes, no, or does the bible leave it up to the reader? You might be surprised at the answer.

Please submit your opinion and feel free to back it up with some facts.
Every one who is seriously involved in the pursuit of science becomes convinced that a spirit is manifest in the laws of the Universe-a spirit vastly superior to that of man. - Albert Einstein
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Postby greeney2 » Thu Jul 31, 2014 8:56 am

IMHO the Bible does imply some evolution process, but is not a scientific account. Genisis tells how God created things in Days, but what were the days, and what was the process? The cycle of life continues, and is infinate, but only if the entire ecosystem God created us maintained. Not doubt we are not the Garden of Eden, with no polution, unspoiled, and no disease. Now look at us, and we sacrafic species into extinction, that in some way support our endless cycle of life.

Rememeber the old Ben Casey TV show? It began with the old Doctor on a blackboard saying " Man, Woman, Birth, Death, Infinity" writing he 5 symbols. A simple diagram of life cycle. Yes it is a endless cycle, and the Bible indicates generations made new generations, it tells of the earth and its cycle with the sun and moon, the stars, and hints earth has a life cycle as well. We keep killing what God gave us, someday we will just kill ourselves off along with our life cycle, and be left with Infinity only. Time will never end, it does not need living organisms, humans or even the earth.
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Postby frrostedman » Thu Jul 31, 2014 7:50 pm

Surprised OT didn't chime in. Mark and halfabo are hit or miss, so I don't guess I'll wait around.

Here is the answer (IMHO as always... I don't ever pretend to have superior knowledge):

The answer is in the first 5 words of the bible.

"In the beginning, God created...."

This is a total rejection of Eastern thought... the whole "endless cycle of birth and rebirth" circle-cyclical philosophy. In just the 1st 5 words of the bible, Jewish and Christian thought is separated completely from dozens of other popular philosophies.

"In the beginning..." this indicates that at one point there was nothing. All of this has a beginning. "God created..." this further demonstrates the scenario. Right out of the gate the bible argues that at some point, instead of our universe there was absolutely nothing. Not a condensed point of singularity. Not a speck of dust. Nothing. And God created.. as only He can do... from nothing... all that we see. So from the biblical perspective, rather than a circle, we have a linear existence. A straight line. A line with a beginning point. Bible believers stand apart from most others in just this linear thought pattern alone. Post Modern philosophers and Eastern philosophers see this linear philosophy as old-fashioned. What they fail to realize is old-fashioned doesn't necessarily mean wrong. There are a great many of us (Greeney?) that have come to understand that old-fashioned isn't so bad after all. We dream of the days of old when respect for elders was expected and people could forget to lock the house and not worry all day about it.
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Postby frrostedman » Thu Jul 31, 2014 7:53 pm

"In the beginning..."

The reader can't even make it to the 4th word of the bible without coming face to face with one of mankind's greatest philosophical controversies.
Last edited by frrostedman on Fri Aug 01, 2014 8:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby greeney2 » Thu Jul 31, 2014 11:23 pm

Holy cow, even I thought to mention Genesis. What the Bible doesn't say is the method in which God created. God sure figured out a complex way humans, the earth, the elements all work and interact.
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Postby frrostedman » Fri Aug 01, 2014 8:28 pm

greeney2 wrote:Holy cow, even I thought to mention Genesis. What the Bible doesn't say is the method in which God created. God sure figured out a complex way humans, the earth, the elements all work and interact.

Yes sir Greeney. You get it. You've always gotten it, brother.

All the bible says as far as God's method of creation is, just by the power of His spoken word (i.e. "Let there be light!"), stuff came into existence out of nothing. Just think. Just to create a single speck of dust would require more technology and power than all of mankind has ever known. The only thing we can do is rearrange what's already there. We can't create.
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Postby frrostedman » Fri Aug 01, 2014 8:41 pm

All of this said... there is still an obvious (seemingly) endless cycle in nature. The wisest man ever to live (Solomon) had much to say about it in Ecclesiastes. We see it all around us. Spring (birth), Summer (peak of life), Fall (getting older), Winter (death)... and it starts over again. I believe that the seasons teach us about our life, but also suggest that with physical death, it's not over.. we will just go to the next life or season... a spiritual existence. Solomon saw this endless cycle, this Eastern, Pagan view of life with no beginning and no end, and concluded that if such an existence were true; if we really do participate in an endless birth, death, rebirth cycle... then it is all utterly and completely meaningless. I agree.

Solomon was right, of course. If we humans are somehow caught up in an endless cycle of rebirth and death, then we should despair. Because such a thing is a trap; a prison with no hope of escape; where accomplishments and good deeds mean nothing and all is swept away over time and replaced with more and more meaningless life experiences.
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Postby burnbabyburn » Sun Aug 03, 2014 6:01 am

There is always a beginning and an end. Alpha and Omega.

When God decides to turn his mathematical creation, Earth, he plays billiards. For example, it sends randomly in space time, giant meteors changer.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extinction_event

It can also change the weather, geopolitics, decide human migration, climate change, etc..

But the man who is the most perfected of his creations, he leaves her free will, to a certain extent.

We must look at the end of the film "The machine back in time" to understand what will happen to humanity. God has created, in fact, a creature that is gradually emptied of its humanity. I think he planned it.
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Postby qmark » Sun Aug 03, 2014 6:27 am

Agreed frosted, there is a cycle of life but it is not without beginning or end. The same goes for our human existence, it follows a cycle but not an endless cycle; birth, childhood, adulthood, old fart stage and then death. Then, as Hebrews 9:27 says, after death comes judgment. End of cycle.
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Postby greeney2 » Sun Aug 03, 2014 8:15 am

The cycle does not always include all the stages you just stated Qmark, some lives are cut short between birth and death. Life itself is without a guarantee of longevity, some can not even make it to birth. Is longevity only the Grace of God, why do leaves on a tree fall at different times, and not all at exactly the same lifespan? Life has to be treasured by the second, and not taken for granted, we all know our individual end will come, but nobody knows when. That is a common denominator of everyone.

We were given the gift of life, spend it wisely or waste it is your choice. Man has built in a self appointed guarantee that we will have eternal life, and we couple that to our behavior while we are living. If Hebrews 9:27 says after death comes Judgement, it implies our cycle will not end. Only this cycle we know as physical life would end, if there would be no eternal life possible, what would be the purpose of Judgement? We are judged to enter a new life eternal.

One thing that is certain, if we all have Judgment day, we all need to answer did we obey the 10 Commandments, did we care for the Garden of Eden we were given, how did we live our lives? Did we do our part in supporting the cycle of life during our lives? Did we lend towards mans survival and continuation of the life cycle, or to its extinction? That day could come at a ripe old age,and I'm getting riper by the minute, or it can come at a tender young age, we do not know. Live being prepared for the minute.
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