The Black Vault Message Forums

Discover the Truth!        

Religion & Spirituality

Christians? Answer a few simple questions.

Whether you believe in a higher power or not, this forum is dedicated to the topic of religion and spirituality. We live in a diverse world with different morals and ideas when it comes to our beliefs, so come in and share your thoughts.

Postby En-Lugal » Sat Jan 25, 2014 8:37 pm

Alalu wrote:But who determines what is fable? Historians tell us they can prove the past by looking at ancient records. But they include some and exclude others. And based on what? Just prejudice and choice. What makes the records of ancient Rome or Greece any more believable than the records of the Sumerians?


Precisely.

qmark wrote:I understand the allure, I was there myself.


You can't have it both ways, meaning that you can't hand pick which historical records you want to keep just because it supports your beliefs. Then dismiss or discredit the things that do no support your beliefs by throwing out a verse like that. You are certainly entitled to disagree, qmark, but that argument is a bit condescending.
The modern definition of ‘racist’ is someone who’s winning an argument with a liberal.
User avatar
En-Lugal
 
Posts: 560
Joined: Mon Aug 27, 2012 10:19 am

Postby qmark » Sun Jan 26, 2014 12:54 pm

Alalu wrote:But who determines what is fable? Historians tell us they can prove the past by looking at ancient records. But they include some and exclude others. And based on what? Just prejudice and choice. What makes the records of ancient Rome or Greece any more believable than the records of the Sumerians?


I remember reading an article once in an old Readers Digest and it was written from the future perspective of what archeologists found a thousand years from now in our age period. They described a throne room with all the ritual stuff to go along with it and what they really found was a hotel room and bathroom. I think there is a lot of that among historians. I don't particularly believe everything about Rome or Greece.

However, speaking strictly from the true Christian perspective, when one knows the reality of the existence of God, the fable question is put to rest.

At one time I ate that stuff right up. It is always interesting to speculate.
qmark
 
Posts: 1066
Joined: Thu Apr 09, 2009 11:54 am

Postby qmark » Sun Jan 26, 2014 1:11 pm

En-Lugal wrote:You can't have it both ways, meaning that you can't hand pick which historical records you want to keep just because it supports your beliefs. Then dismiss or discredit the things that do no support your beliefs by throwing out a verse like that. You are certainly entitled to disagree, qmark, but that argument is a bit condescending.


First, never did I intend to be condescending. I quoted that verse because that popped into my head when I read the post. As a Christian, I gave a response from the Christian perspective. This I will always do. It is okay to disagree, in fact, Christians don't agree on everything amongst themselves.

To me, it is not a question of hand picking, it is a question of trust. I trust God's Word so that is the source I will always use the most. If the opposite is true for you, I understand.
qmark
 
Posts: 1066
Joined: Thu Apr 09, 2009 11:54 am

Postby greeney2 » Sun Jan 26, 2014 3:46 pm

qmark wrote: in fact, Christians don't agree on everything amongst themselves.


You can that again, and it is proven by how many different Christian religions there are. Makes you wonder how so many different theology's exist from the same Bible, which religion has it 100% right? At least the Belief Jesus died and arose again 3 days later is agreed upon, but not many other parts of that story. Agreeing on passages and what they all mean, differs so greatly between religions. That is why every religion has in depth bible study classes, where they dissect these things sentence by sentence. Probably is rare, they conclude the same meanings. All too often a verse may be used totally out of context, from what it means within a given story.
greeney2
 
Posts: 9670
Joined: Thu Apr 09, 2009 11:54 am

Postby qmark » Sun Jan 26, 2014 8:39 pm

True greeney. I would say 90% of the Christian denominations believe on the basics. The problem isn't the Bible, it is the prism that men are looking through as they try to make it fit their version of theology.
qmark
 
Posts: 1066
Joined: Thu Apr 09, 2009 11:54 am

Postby Alalu » Mon Jan 27, 2014 6:20 pm

See this is the problem I have with the KJV Bible. Not the official interpritations by the church, but those of the layman. The Bible is not just a work of religion. Its also a work of literature. Its written in a style which was meant to convey ideas a certain way and to sound consistent. It is based on earlier scriptures and if you read those they have a distinctly different tone. Each source scripture had its own author.

The tone of the Gnostic gospels is especially interesting. And they wrote about some of the same people as in the Bible. But I think that if people read the source gospels there might be less inclined to argue over meanings. The Dead Sea Scrolls are also in this category.

I maintain that most of the religions of the world have a common source and if we could go back far enough in the archaeological record we would see it. Even the native Americans knew of the cult of the flying serpent, the oldest religion. I believe the flying serpent represented Alalu.
User avatar
Alalu
 
Posts: 153
Joined: Sun Sep 01, 2013 2:23 pm

Postby frrostedman » Tue Jan 28, 2014 7:36 pm

greeney2 wrote:How can we fail unless we have a free will to disobey God? Otherwise we would simply never disobey, or what God commands us, because we do not know what a free will is.

From the doctrine I adhere to, we are told that we all have the free will to disobey God in all things... with one exception. And that exception is when He draws us near through the power of the Holy Spirit. That is something we can't overcome, deny, or ignore. In the case of saving faith, we require said action on the part of God.
Every one who is seriously involved in the pursuit of science becomes convinced that a spirit is manifest in the laws of the Universe-a spirit vastly superior to that of man. - Albert Einstein
User avatar
frrostedman
 
Posts: 3774
Joined: Fri Sep 04, 2009 7:01 pm

Postby frrostedman » Tue Jan 28, 2014 7:40 pm

Alalu wrote:Fwiw, I think the answer to 1 and 2 is maybe. Then number 3 can't be answered easily. I have a theory. What if the Biblical story of the Garden of Eden was a rewritten version of the Annunaki Edin? In the biblical version the question is, why would God put the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil in the garden in the first place?

My handle when I first signed on here was "Enki66." Oh, I was a big time believer in the whole framework that Zecharia Sitchin set forth in his books. But ever since God grabbed hold of me, I completely lost interest. I found all the important answers in Christ, and in the bible. I still am very intrigued by the Sumerian civilization, their writings, and all the stuff about the Anunaki. But there are a lot of researchers out there now who refute Sitchin's work.
Every one who is seriously involved in the pursuit of science becomes convinced that a spirit is manifest in the laws of the Universe-a spirit vastly superior to that of man. - Albert Einstein
User avatar
frrostedman
 
Posts: 3774
Joined: Fri Sep 04, 2009 7:01 pm

Postby frrostedman » Tue Jan 28, 2014 7:41 pm

qmark wrote:However, speaking strictly from the true Christian perspective, when one knows the reality of the existence of God, the fable question is put to rest.

At one time I ate that stuff right up. It is always interesting to speculate.

Amen my brother. Amen.
Every one who is seriously involved in the pursuit of science becomes convinced that a spirit is manifest in the laws of the Universe-a spirit vastly superior to that of man. - Albert Einstein
User avatar
frrostedman
 
Posts: 3774
Joined: Fri Sep 04, 2009 7:01 pm

Postby frrostedman » Tue Jan 28, 2014 7:46 pm

qmark wrote:To me, it is not a question of hand picking, it is a question of trust. I trust God's Word so that is the source I will always use the most. If the opposite is true for you, I understand.

True, but you were asked specifically, what makes one civilization's writings more trustworthy than others. My immediate thought was, well, here we are 2000-6000 years separated from the texts mentioned... and... Christianity is still here. Still strong. I don't see anyone touting the truth of Greek mythology anymore. And though we do have a few folks who give credence to the Sumerian account, there are hardly enough "believers" to count.

So that's the difference. If the teachings of Christ and His apostles was a total façade, it would have been exposed, debunked, and dumped in the garbage can by now. Yet, the opposite has occurred.
Every one who is seriously involved in the pursuit of science becomes convinced that a spirit is manifest in the laws of the Universe-a spirit vastly superior to that of man. - Albert Einstein
User avatar
frrostedman
 
Posts: 3774
Joined: Fri Sep 04, 2009 7:01 pm

PreviousNext

Return to Religion & Spirituality

cron
  • View new posts
  • View unanswered posts
  • Who is online
  • In total there is 1 user online :: 0 registered, 0 hidden and 1 guest (based on users active over the past 10 minutes)
  • Most users ever online was 292 on Mon Apr 23, 2012 3:19 pm
  • Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest