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ignore fukushima at your peril !!

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Postby mael » Sat Oct 26, 2013 10:56 am

Alalu wrote:I don't know how much of what Mael said is true but all reactors have overpressure reliefs. If those did not work then that is a very big problem. In the US those reliefs are tested regularly. Why would someone want to deliberately stop the rescue of Fukushima? I thought the explosions that happened were because of the hydrogen buildup.

Btw, I used to drive by San Onofre from time to time when I lived in S.D. And I always thought that was a bad place to put a reactor.

In the Navy reactors are operated at an extreme high degree of safety and the lack of accidents has proven that the system works.

I read an article today about the problems with the cleanup crews and organized crime being involved. Not good.


I don't know how much of what I say is exactly correct either. But I have been 'on' this since day one, and I have augmented my sum of knowledge of the event gradually and what I say here is true to the best of my knowledge, and the knowledge I have is way better than average.

The water molecule will return to its atomic elements somewhere around 1,500C (Very approximate). When the reactors overheated, this minimum required temperature would have been exceeded by several times.

Hydrogen and oxygen present in a round-about ratio of 2:1 will be inclined to recombine and form water at any time. The shockwave from the oxidizing of hydrogen travels at phenominal speed - no flashback arrestor can be trusted with oxygen and hydrogen in a stochiometric mix, and when it goes, virtually nothing will contain it. An over-sized pressure cooker in a concrete building couldn't hope to be able to withstand the entire contents igniting. You can see the shockwave in a couple of the reactor explosions that were caught by news cameras on 3/11/11.

If you are unwise enough to collect H and O in a 2:1 ratio, then you are in possession of an extremely dangerous container that could go off at any moment. The can it's in could have a temperature imbalance or just someone banging the cylinder might be enough to set it off.

HO explosions are first the thermal expansion and then the formation of water makes the area a relative vacuum. It's lethal stuff and I should know because I've researched it and also had the stuff blow up on me! ... Maybe only a few hundred cc of the stuff was enough to knock me against the wall. Tens of thousands of cubic litres of that stuff will easily blow the lid off the reactors and knock the walls out - which is what happened.

I think reactor number three was a nuclear explosion. That's the one that was being used with MOX. The reactor wasn't designed to use or intended to use MOX, but someone wanted to get even more 'free' power. Mox uses a little less than 10% plutonium and is much hotter than common-or-garden fuel rods. MOX wasn't used at Chernobyl.

Why would anyone want to blow up some nukes? Well it's happened, so think a bit harder. Perhaps it would be of assistance if I pointed out to you my belief that any politicians who are genuinely patriotic and have their electors' best interests at heart are sacked. It's nothing like it's the J gov trying to save the country or some such romantic nonsense and besides, the politicians are working for the central banks and those banks are working under the international banks - so follow the money - see if there is a way people can get money and/or power as a rusult of nuclear power stations blowing up.

Rumour has it that stuxnet escaping from Iran and infecting major infrastructure with Siemens operating systems was an accident. Stuxnet was discovered in the Sendai servers in June '10. It was not difficult to introduce a computer worm to the mainframe in Fukushima Dai-Ichi, and only requires a humble thumb drive. Discover for yourself who was doing the security at Fuku Dai-Ichi up until two weeks before the 'accident.'

For stuxnet to be effective it requires a human operator to tweak the specific program to cause the damage that whoever it is that arranges such things desires. Stuxnet is designed to be undetected and it is intended to become active when there is a situation where an emergency response is required. Stuxnet's purpose is to wreck an emergency response and create a disaster out of a problem. It typically alters the 'clock' in the systems and causes motors to stop, change speed or overspin to destruction - whatever is most effective for the watcher.

All water under the bridge now.
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Postby mael » Sat Oct 26, 2013 11:14 am

magonia17 wrote:The consequences here are going to be long lasting, be it to the environment as well as the human cost of the radiation. I do not understand with the historical events that have occurred, why Japan had nuclear reactors in the first place. It is an island, wave power, wind power thermo under ground heating etc., would of been better options.


You need to think in ways you are not used to if you want to understand why Japan has had to rely on nukes. You may not like what you discover. It was not by choice that japan joined the nuclear club.

Yes. Like Iceland, Japan has limitless geothermal energy potential. Some isolated hotels and spas use mini-geothermal generating systems.

I think electrical generation shouldn't be so centralised, and that electricity generation is far less uneconomical if it is generated locally. Line losses are what??? a third or a half of the total output? (I'm not sure).

I'm sure you know the frustration of knowing there are less dangerous methods of obtaining electrical power and that they are deliberately avoided because it would mean some already wealthy people would lose some of their influence.

* Why use complicated HAWT wind generators that require endless maintenance and in the end cost more to run than power obtained from coal, oil or gas? Because it creates a money-go-round.

If wind generators were of the VAWT design, they'd last a generation, require little maintenance, can work from a breeze to a hurricane, not keep you awake at night and not bat birds up to the stratosphere... but people wouldn't be getting rich out of them.
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Postby greeney2 » Sun Oct 27, 2013 8:55 am

What Mael is saying is true about all the plants being shut down, checking to see if that was true or not. evidently 30% of Japans electrical power comes from these plants, all are shut down, except I read one is producing some power. Looks like they have about 20 plants around the country. Probably has created a real economic setback for that entire country, since most countries run and depend on energy. It must have affected manufacturing, and production of many factories, and probably has required many new rules for conserving energy, that has been reduced in availability.

One thing for sure, it has become the worlds problem to feel the affects of as it travels from Japan to other nations, but you can only imagine the magnitude of both health, and long term economy setbacks to Japan.
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Postby mael » Sun Oct 27, 2013 11:08 am

Back to the largely-ignored reactors 5 and 6 at Dai-Ichi.

They were in the process of attempting to remove fuel rods at the time of the recent quake - which Japan has downgraded to a 6.9m and Australia has noted as a 7.6m.

I think there are 54 nuclear reactors in total here including the remains of some at Fukushima.

So G2. There are some twenty plants? I didn't know how many plants there were. Anyway - I understand that none are operating. Dai-Ichi and Dai-Ni would account for 20% of the reactors then as (I think) there are/were four at Dai-Ni.

I didn't know there was one still generating. But I'm not surprised there is no news of this here.

This last quake did more damage than is being said. I don't have many details except gossip and rumours of this, but there is an eery silence from Fukushima.

Japan is zombie-land. Dead people walking. They just don't know they're dead. Well I mean that tens of millions of people are going to meet an early grave. Not so for the babies and kiddies though - they are dying now. Doctors are ordered to keep the lid on the extent of the problem.

Babies are being aborted rather than risk a mutant. Babies that went full-term didn't live - stillborn. Toddlers with diabetes, thyroid abnormalities, small hearts that are inadequate etc etc etc.

... and the oldies are getting culled - soft kill.

Yeah! Shame about Japan getting this. China manufactures most of the stuff you Americans buy, but most or practically all of that stuff was developed in Japan by the Japanese. Losing Japanese engineers, inventors and scientists is a great loss for the world.

Just imagine a future and we somehow survive Fukushima ... China's manufacturing base has got too expensive so the companies start to out-source to Africa. If you think Chinese stuff is shoddy then imagine what their stuff would be like if it was made by Africans! Speaking of that sort of thing - Radiation affects more evolved creatures than it does the less evolved. Guess which species of humans is going to sicken first. The planet will be full of lizards and cockroaches.
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Postby greeney2 » Sun Oct 27, 2013 2:48 pm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_power_in_Japan

This is what I looked up to read about your plants. I counted about 20 locations, article states you have about 50 reactors.

I do have a question when you spoke about prevailing winds, that have seemed to blown contamination out to sea, on the east side of your coast. Should a similar event happen at one of the mapped locations on the west coast, are the prevailing winds always from the West to the East? Does that mean any west coast failure would result in winds always blowing towards the east, and always over the mainland of Japan?
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Postby mael » Sun Oct 27, 2013 3:15 pm

I don't know G2.

I've pored over the Jet Stream moving Westwards, but I've never noted what the wind is doing on the other side of Japan.

Damn your posts are sharp these days. :)

* I meant Eastwards. Sry.
Last edited by mael on Mon Oct 28, 2013 2:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby greeney2 » Mon Oct 28, 2013 9:04 am

mael wrote:Damn your posts are sharp these days.


I always thought I was sharp in the old days. :P Maybe you have mellowed a little and finally thinking about what I write? :lol: Maybe we both have mellowed a lot. :thumbup:

On a serious note, I am glad you and your family were/are at a safe distance from Fukushima, it is a very serious world problem, that hopefully every nation can give input into a solution.
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Postby mael » Tue Oct 29, 2013 4:04 am

greeney2 wrote:
mael wrote:Damn your posts are sharp these days.


On a serious note, I am glad you and your family were/are at a safe distance from Fukushima, it is a very serious world problem, that hopefully every nation can give input into a solution.


Well, we are a couple of thousand kilometres from GZ, but distance isn't necessarily a reliable sign of relative safety.

The ground around here (Amami) used to have a background gamma reading of 0.05 uSv/hr or thereabouts. When Fukushima turned into a mess, the level doubled. Since then, the level is slowly creeping up.

These days an average reading on a fine day seems to be around 0.14-5 uSv/hr, and after rain and at the edges of the road and bottoms of posts etc it can get to 0.18 uSv/hr. The alarm on my (modest) sensor starts clanging at 0.3 uSv/hr, so where I am isn't radically dangerous, but the cumulative effect puts Amami at well over the 1 mSv/yr that the gov here says means it should be decontaminated.

But it's not the new and increasing ambient radiation that bothers me too much. What gets my goat is that the sneaky sods are transporting Fukushima's waste all over the flippin' country and paying private refuse companies to incinerate it ................ and dust the whole ******g country with radioactive particulates (mostly caesium isotopes).

And as if that's not enough, the refuse from radiation hot spots is being carted everywhere in building materials and agricultural supplies - as well as the more obvious routes of fish and vegetables of course. One is well advised to be wary of stuff coming from the mainland - most or nearly all of it is probably OK. But radioactive produce is cheap, and there are a lot of folks here who will outright lie about the origin or status of foodstuffs. Mislabeling is a problem they have more up North than way down here though.

Rice is the staple here. People have different preferences for which rice they buy and for what purpose. We used to be able to buy a specific brand and it was taken for granted that if it said it was eg. Kagoshima rice, then it would be from Kagoshima. But THEY changed the rules without telling anyone and now there is only one rice brand that hasn't got Fukushima (or that area's) rice mixed in with it. They do this so they can measure a sample and the average will be below the gov's maximum acceptable level. What this actually means in reality is that the bulk is completely safe, and they've got some pretty contaminated stuff in it which takes it up to just below the red-line. The consumer is largely ignorant. Is it so important to fuss like mad over some contaminated rice? Well I'd prefer not to have anything grown anywhere near Fukushima and that's not so much for me as for my children. I'll be dead before Cancer gets a chance on me, but the youngsters will be cut down before their prime if they aren't careful.

Life is somewhat frustrating with the sword of Damacles of Fukushima hanging over our heads, knowing that a bunch of greedy conscienceless gangsters are running the show, but life goes on.

Fukushima is far from over. It has only just begun. It's going to get a lot worse and it may do this all of a sudden.

Mars looks tempting with it's sub-zero temperatures and global desert right now and I'm waiting for the bus.
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Postby mael » Wed Oct 30, 2013 11:16 am

Very strange experiences just now - I am a non-member?

What goes on? I cannot view my profile because I am a non-member?
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Postby greeney2 » Wed Oct 30, 2013 3:11 pm

I just tried to look at my own and it said the same thing, so it is probably just a minor program problem. You were able to log in and post this message, so you have to be a member.
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