The Black Vault

I've been in the woods for a week, will there be a rerun?

billy,

Yes, tonight at 6pm Central. I've got it set to record...



larry,

I'll shoot ya that email. That's great news. A scientist who is an expert dealing w/ aluminum alloys stating this is an alloy of unknown origin.

Kinda shoots the skeptic's claims right outta the water, huh..

It's getting much harder for the skeptics to claim "it's a common ________" (insert various ludicrious claims in the blank spot).

Just curious, but who's the latest skeptic to claim it's a common object and then failing to prove it??

THERE IS SOME WANT A BEE ARM CHAIR at the history channel message board
said that..

i promptly stuck a spear in his therory and he has disappeared from the discussion..

http://boards.history.com/topic/Ufo-Hun ... 21&start=0

the above link is the discussion of the show...its getting pretty hot
towards the back as all the scientists are at it..and im there to..

bluz

Tnks Joe.

THE BWO THROUGH THE EYES OF A SKEPTIC

First he must find the gov file on the object recovered by the CIC in denmark File # 202055 Stating a piece of a flying saucer was recovered.
This wasnt declassified till 2000. the case has been public since 1996.
Now he must obtain a picture so he can make one like it.
Only picture is in the CIC files...

Of course he must gather all the rare earth elements, then find a way to mix them all and put them in a plasma spray torch or other very high tech piece of equipement along with powdered aluminum or cast aluminum ingot.
Now he has to get it to form a cone shape with all the chads and this must all be done in a garage. Of course he didnt own a garage 1996. He was on the road playing music.

Now he has got to take it to the most prestigious labs in the country and have them test it to prove it is not terrestrial.

He must fool them all.
He has to make up a story, and rehearse it over and over so he can pass 4 polygraph tests.

The object has to be made in such a shape that no one can duplicate it.

Now he must find a few scientists who are willing to put thier reputations and thier career at risk to help create this hoax and all this he has to do with a 7th grade education recieved in a little one room school house in missouri.

He also has a bridge in Alaska to nowhere for sale..

bluz

Anytime billy. Hey, how's the cabin life treating ya? YOU KNOW, I envy that, don't ya..lol You must really enjoy the peace and quiet. I know I would.



blues, I'll have to check that out. I'm curious as to how someone can "promptly put a spear" into the theory and not have an ounce of anything to backup the reasoning. It's short sighted nimwits like that that make me laugh.

Choosing to simply dismiss it is one thing, but I find it hysterical when people "claim" they "know" it is a common object but fail every time to front the proof when asked. And it's those same ones who demand so much more scientific testing/proof from your claim.

Everything I've read and followed, your side is the only side to put up any scientific results backing your claim. To date, no skeptic has provided anything beyond a sentence stating they "know it's a common object."

It's simply laughable.

http://boards.history.com/topic/Ufo-...49130&start=90
heres some comments you didnt hear on the show..

this is why the other two scientist have come on board to.

larry


Chris Ellis - the other scientist mentioned in the May 6th show. I have been following this conversation very closely. I also wanted to help answer questions about the show and the evidence.

My background: growing up I was always fascinated with the studying and analyzing things. I am a scientist by nature and nuture. I have studied the normal and in sense of a hobby I study the paranormal. I find the testimony about the paranormal to be very compelling evidence. However, the scientist in me wants more proof. I have never seen a UFO but I have family members who have. I am a scientist through and through and I demand irrefutable proof of claims. I follow the credo: extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof. However, I know that UFO-ology is a broad field with very little proof beyond testimony. Pictures are fuzzy and too far away and the physical evidence is sometimes too similar to known aircraft. I am a scientific skeptic. I am human and while I believe in the testimony of others, I, too, would like to have my own proof.

I have my Masters in Physics (Solid State Physics / Semiconductors), a Bachelors in Modern Languages and almost enough credit towards a degree in Math. I stopped my pursuit to my Ph.D. out of exhaustion. I really wanted to get out and get a job, too. I am like David, studying this object has rekindled my desire to continue my education.

I got involved with this story when I happened upon the Museum some years ago. I had a great conversation with Robert Gibbons about the object. The curious scientist in me wanted to know more about the data. He gave me plenty of data to study. I offered: given the concentration of elements in the object, they should focus their research on the objects semiconducting and thermal properties. I mentioned that my graduate research had been in Aluminum substrates and their semiconducting properties. I offered that they consider all this in the future research. At the time I only had a surface picture of the object and it's history. It wasn't until they sent me the full set of data that I got the bigger picture. I considered every possibility of the object through thought experiments. After studying the data and the testimony I could tell them what the object wasn't but I could not tell them what it was. When I moved I lost the data their contact information so we lost touch for a while.

In January, Bob and Robert called upon me again to talk about the data. I asked for a fresh copy of all the data since 1996 and I got a mountain of information. Part of the data is contained in Bob's book and the rest was sent to me via email. Some is on various websites and forums, too.

I poured over the data. I attacked the problem from several angles: 1) what could have resulted in the object 2) what purpose could that alloy serve 3) what did it look like before it's exposure to heat and the fall and 4) what tests are missing?

Like David, I believe in Bob's testimony. Four lie detectors tests would be hard to pass, but it can be done. Bob believes in what he saw so the question is: did he really see what he saw? I believe in the plain honesty of this research crew. If you lived in the midwest you'd know the type of folk I am talking about. We move at a different pace here. Their behavior does not match those of hoaxsters or scammers. I can smell bull and I have very keen common sense. I have my reputation as a scientist at stake here so I am not going to just cave in on the debate. I plan to tow the line of scientist and I plan to keep the research going.

My conclusions were a result of me reviewing all past data and suggesting a new round of experiments, which David performed. I gave my expert opinion to the team just as I did on TV.

Results: I said the object is an aluminum alloy of unknown source, which is definitely is. It has signs of being cast or wrought (this is corroborated). It's current form was not it's original form. The object is made up of two types of structure: the inner core, which is solid and the outer layer, which is feathery in appearance. I concur with David's assessment of the object in that the object is made up of a quasi-crystal and that the concentrations of the secondary, tertiary and other alloying metals is higher than normal for a primary alloy (the Si and Fe are in higher concentrations than possible for their respective primary phases of alloys). This is simliar to maximum soluability. Extensive tests need to be performed to study the primary, secondary and tertiary phases of this alloy. Unfortunately, some of the tests I want to run would actually destroy the object. See, samples need to be taken from all over the object because it's obvious to the science team that the object is heavily altered and could have pockets of secondary alloys. I will tell you that MIT found very high concentrations of Uranium, Thorium, Erbium (for commercial aluminum) and trace amounts of some other unusual elements. I firmly believe this object was made purposefully and that it's composition was not by accident. I also believe that the objects physical properties would be at their greatest performance at very low temperature and pressures. At low temperatures, this alloy could have had superconductive properties. However, like I said, it has been permanently altered by high temperatures.

David and I have maintained, always, that we don't know how this object was made nor do we know if it came from EBE's. We do know that it's an alloy of extraordinary source and composition and that for 1985, it's very amazing. We're not alone in the scientific community in this belief and we also believe many more tests must be performed.

The future: we plan to run a series of tests that will confirm past test results. We plan to study the objects alloy properties, it's strength and hardness, it's electrical and magnetic properties, it's density, the objects radioactive properties and it's composition. All these tests have been ran (some have been ran almost 10 times). I plan to work with some commercial alloy manufacturers to perform the alloy studies. Some of the compositional studies may have to be performed by a lab in Germany (like some have suggested).

I am here to answer questions and recieve your constructive input. I am not here to convince you of anything. And I am not here to get flamed by anyone. You have to research this yourself and arrive at the conclusion you need to be at. I will say that this is the most amazing thing I've ever studied and the testimony is truly unique.

Larry,

Your object is a manmade meteorite, that fell to earth and through ablation due to
atmosperic heating looks pretty cool I would suspect that it maybe part of the
dead satelites power source. If it is a neutron emitter you might be a bit more careful
in handling it. It could cause damage to your body. Neutrons are kinda hard to stop until
they bump into an atom/molecule(DNA) of your body.

Actually I think what you have or could be used for is a New Age Religious Relic...........

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u_zAUrOq-Dc

man made yes...metorite no..
it is a manufactured alloy and according to the latest testing done
a new alloy not known..

ongoing tests are being done.

bluz

"LATEST RESEARCH FINDINGS"

Physicist Chris Ellis, expert in solid state physics, aluminum alloys,
and superconductors. Test result showed the object is an alloy of
unknown origin. It is also his expert opinion that this is a manufactured alloy.

Research Scientist David Lamb, expert in physics and material science.
Also works at a major US university. Findings were achieved using
X-Ray Diffraction Analysis: The artifact showed an unique “amorphous peak
and is a polycrystalline semiconductor”. To his knowledge this type of material
is not found anywhere on Earth. Also there is silver concentration of 4.3%,
here on Earth silver is used in this form by experimental scientist as a
catalyst for a superconductor. It is sprayed over aluminum and thus is in small
amounts as we see here from the test results. He postulated that this
could be used on a craft as a way to dispel magnetic fields, especially
in space as there is no energy expenditure needed for superconductivity.
Lamb has further speculated that this artifact is in fact a “quasi-crystal of
complex structure.” This is only in its early stages on Earth in the form of nanotechnology.