The Black Vault Message Forums

Discover the Truth!        

Religion & Spirituality

Evangelizing

Whether you believe in a higher power or not, this forum is dedicated to the topic of religion and spirituality. We live in a diverse world with different morals and ideas when it comes to our beliefs, so come in and share your thoughts.

Postby Halfabo » Mon Apr 28, 2014 8:50 pm

Alalu wrote:Nice. But I might caution that God may not be the only one out there communicating with Man. If some humans have the right genes they may have the ability to communicate with others. And I'm not convinced that all, or even most, humans can communicate with God. And even further, many who claim they have we're likely mistaken. God is a busy man.

Here is a thought. What if Adolf Hitler thought he was talking to God, but instead he was talking to a much lesser creature who told him to do things to sabotage Humanity? Of course Adolf Hitler couldn't tell people he was talking to God because they would think him crazy. Even crazier than we think he was.

I'll bet that if we set out across space to find our god it would turn a lot like Prometheus. They found the Igigi, who only wanted to wipe out Humanity. Sounds a lot like their children, the Arryans. Maybe that's why Hollywood painted them that way. See it all comes around full circle.




Those who serve God, know His voice and are not fooled by imposters. Those who are mislead by other spirits do not know God. Those who do not know God are easily mislead into a myriad of foolish ideas of what and who God is, much like the ideas you propose. There is only ONE God. There is only ONE way to reach Him.
Halfabo
 
Posts: 647
Joined: Thu Apr 09, 2009 11:54 am

Postby greeney2 » Tue Apr 29, 2014 8:35 am

Aside from the fact Alalu, what you said has nothing to do with evangelizing, you seem to be making up a lot of stuff. I'll let you discuss the movie idea(which I have not seen) with Orangetom, he loves that kind of discussion. :lol: Not sure how you can prove any of what you say about genes, or that nobody can communicate with God, or is mistaken who has, but be sure how busy God is. You sound more like someone who still questions if God is real or not. That is what we all have to come to terms with one on one.

What would you consider actual communication with God, since you are so skeptical? Forget Hitler, he was a madman, and we know what he did and how he ended up, and just a poor example to choose the far extreme of humans as a point. What about you personally? Are you one that will be a skeptic until you have some actual sighting of God walking down the street? We have debated this tooth and nail with many of our atheist friends who have given up on the board. All those who believe, are still here posting. Prove a miracle, and that would not be enough they would want 2, just to be sure. God may be busy, but not so busy God can not touch you personally and privately. You just have to see it, and it may come as simple blessings in life, as well as pretty big ones. Times of total dispare, or life hanging in the balance, do not happen everyday, but everyday if you look, blessing come not as a voice but simple things. Why me, to have these things happen to yourself, and remembering only the Grace of God brought them. Can I prove this to you, no, do I have special genes, no. I'm just like everyone else, and can only think I live my life according to what I know is right and wrong, and God sees this, and has blessed me with good things--I consider that communication--you may not. I do not need any more than that to have the Faith God is Real, and has always been there, even in times when I didn't think so.
greeney2
 
Posts: 9671
Joined: Thu Apr 09, 2009 11:54 am

Postby Alalu » Tue Apr 29, 2014 4:53 pm

Well I'm not trying to attack anyone's faith but I separate religious belief from rational deduction. The god of the universe is unknowable. Judeo/Christian/Muslim religion says that, as do other religions. Unknowable is unknowable. I think the god of the universe created the universe and the rules by which it operates. He set it in motion. But I don't believe he tampers with the experiment. That's why the laws of physics are constant.

I was referring to events from history, which were recorded by the people who knew about those events. The truth of those events really has nothing to do with religion. Their works were not written from the perspective of religion as we know it today. If you lived 6000 years ago and you saw a creature descend from the heavens what would you think it was? They thought it was God, or a god. They were polytheistic. More than one god was perfectly acceptable to them. And another god descending to earth was understandable.

Remember I was in support of evangelizing. If you really believe what you believe then you have the right to share it with others. But you shouldn't let that get in your way of rationalizing your existence in this universe, and your predicament.

You have only so much knowledge and only so much capability to deal with what mother nature will throw at you and you better use your brain to figure out how to solve problems or all the prayer in the world will not save you. How many people have prayed for immortality? So far no one has been granted such. Both the God of the universe and the god of the Sumerians had the ability to grant it. One is a belief system and the other is written history. The god of the Sumerians did offer immortality to one man but he declined because he was afraid that god would poison him. That's a topic by itself.

We are very close to being able to create life ourselves, scientifically. And the creatures we will create will see us as God. That is perfectly understandable.

If it makes you feel any better, the creatures that did come down to earth and create man were themselves believers in a God of the universe.
User avatar
Alalu
 
Posts: 153
Joined: Sun Sep 01, 2013 2:23 pm

Postby Alalu » Tue Apr 29, 2014 5:25 pm

Halfabo wrote:Those who serve God, know His voice and are not fooled by imposters. Those who are mislead by other spirits do not know God. Those who do not know God are easily mislead into a myriad of foolish ideas of what and who God is, much like the ideas you propose. There is only ONE God. There is only ONE way to reach Him.

I'm sure Adam & Eve thought the same thing but Satan kept appearing to them in the cave and tricking them. And Adam & Eve certainly knew God.
User avatar
Alalu
 
Posts: 153
Joined: Sun Sep 01, 2013 2:23 pm

Postby greeney2 » Tue Apr 29, 2014 6:31 pm

Alalu wrote: I separate religious belief from rational deduction.


We have had this debate with our declared atheists here, its a never ending debate, and what you may think is irrational may not be to about 6 billion other people in many different religions.

Alalu wrote:You have only so much knowledge and only so much capability to deal with what mother nature will throw at you and you better use your brain to figure out how to solve problems or all the prayer in the world will not save you.


I'm not sure if you have ever actually been in a real natural disaster, where you actually believed death was imminent, but I have. I'll spare you the details but we were right on top of the epicenter of the Northridge Earthquake in 1994, so I will totally disagree with you about praying.

Not sure your age but when you have had a few miles on you like I have, you have a few times when you have surgery, or are in a life threatening situation, and when you have friends that write from all over the world on message boards like this, they are praying for you, it is both a humbling experience and IMHO a very powerful thing. I'm sure it would not convince you.

You do know that God does not schedule and plan natural disasters I hope. Nobody knows for sure why our universe has a built in evolution to itself, even just our own planet. I also hope you understand nobody gets immortality in this life, but many like myself believe when we leave this life, it is to an eternal afterlife, if my belief is irrational to you, I could care less. If I'm wrong, does it matter, I will never know. But if if I'm right, its the E ticket ride. :lol: As the old saying goes "Nobody gets out of this alive". :lol: It is a lot easier to have great philosophical doubts and questions when you are younger, but when you get a lot closer to the end, you have a whole new perspective.
greeney2
 
Posts: 9671
Joined: Thu Apr 09, 2009 11:54 am

Postby Alalu » Tue Apr 29, 2014 7:37 pm

I did not say that religious belief was irrational. I'm sure it serves some purpose, most likely to aid in coping. And praying may connect people on a level that's difficult to detect scientifically.

I have had near death experiences and I have a lot of miles. I've been dead so many times I've lost count. But I do not believe in death, and I don't believe in a god who requires it. Death is not life. Dead is just dead.

If we achieve immortality it will be by our hand. Sitting around waiting for someone else to do it is a waste of life. If God was going to it then he would have done it a long time ago.

"... If he enters again unto his former self, he will not experience death." --JC
User avatar
Alalu
 
Posts: 153
Joined: Sun Sep 01, 2013 2:23 pm

Postby Halfabo » Tue Apr 29, 2014 11:09 pm

Alalu wrote:Well I'm not trying to attack anyone's faith but I separate religious belief from rational deduction. The god of the universe is unknowable. Judeo/Christian/Muslim religion says that, as do other religions. Unknowable is unknowable. I think the god of the universe created the universe and the rules by which it operates. He set it in motion. But I don't believe he tampers with the experiment. That's why the laws of physics are constant.


Alalu wrote:I'm sure Adam & Eve thought the same thing but Satan kept appearing to them in the cave and tricking them. And Adam & Eve certainly knew God.


You have a lot of opinions about Judaism and Christianity. You obviously have no knowledge of either. Nowhere does Christianity or Judaism say that God is unknowable. Islam does claim that Allah cannot be known. And many Muslims make the same false claims that you make here. They make claims about Christianity and Judaism that do not apply to them but, only to Islam. The three religions are not rooted in the same belief systems. And they do not teach the same theology.

As for Adam and Eve talking to Satan? Show me the chapter and verse where a cave is mentioned. Again you show your lack of knowledge.


Alalu wrote:"... If he enters again unto his former self, he will not experience death." --JC


Perhaps you would also like to site where this "quote" is from. And perhaps who "JC" is. I suppose is could be John Carpenter. I know that is not a quote from Jesus Christ. But then, like all of your other claims in this thread, it does seem to be something you made up.



Alalu wrote: I have had near death experiences and I have a lot of miles. I've been dead so many times I've lost count. But I do not believe in death, and I don't believe in a god who requires it. Death is not life. Dead is just dead.


I would say that this statement along with so many others is also a falsehood, made up for self serving reasons. Having experienced death myself, I know what it is like. I have died twice. I also know a few others who have died. And when you have actually experienced death, even more than once, you do not forget how many times you have died. I've had a lot of experience with people just like you. My generation has a name for them. They're called "bullshitters". And they never gain respect from others by telling tall tales.
Halfabo
 
Posts: 647
Joined: Thu Apr 09, 2009 11:54 am

Postby greeney2 » Tue Apr 29, 2014 11:56 pm

You are on a roll Halfabo, I'll say it a second time, Well said.
greeney2
 
Posts: 9671
Joined: Thu Apr 09, 2009 11:54 am

Postby Alalu » Wed Apr 30, 2014 7:09 pm

Halfabo wrote:You have a lot of opinions about Judaism and Christianity. You obviously have no knowledge of either. Nowhere does Christianity or Judaism say that God is unknowable. Islam does claim that Allah cannot be known. And many Muslims make the same false claims that you make here. They make claims about Christianity and Judaism that do not apply to them but, only to Islam. The three religions are not rooted in the same belief systems. And they do not teach the same theology. [/qoute]
You do know that the stories in the Bible pre-existed the Bible, right? The Bible is the culmination of earlier works which have more information than the condensed version in the Bible. Anyone who says they know the mind of God is likely delusional. Tell me the name of one person who talks to God.

And claiming that I have no knowledge of religion is just an outright insult with nothing to back it up. I seem to remember something about bearing false witness against thy neighbor.

Halfabo wrote:As for Adam and Eve talking to Satan? Show me the chapter and verse where a cave is mentioned. Again you show your lack of knowledge.

The story of Adam & Eve was well known before the Bible and there were many versions, some with much greater detail. For example, Adam committed suicide several times but God brought him back to life each time. The story of the great flood existed in many cultures all around the world. The Bible is just one version. And it was my ancestor who had the Bible translated into English so people could read it themselves and see how the Church was lying.

Alalu wrote:"... If he enters again unto his former self, he will not experience death." --JC


Halfabo wrote:Perhaps you would also like to site where this "quote" is from. And perhaps who "JC" is. I suppose is could be John Carpenter. I know that is not a quote from Jesus Christ. But then, like all of your other claims in this thread, it does seem to be something you made up.


I believe it is in the Gospel of Thomas but I will look it up and get that to you.

Alalu wrote: I have had near death experiences and I have a lot of miles. I've been dead so many times I've lost count. But I do not believe in death, and I don't believe in a god who requires it. Death is not life. Dead is just dead.


I would say that this statement along with so many others is also a falsehood, made up for self serving reasons. Having experienced death myself, I know what it is like. I have died twice. I also know a few others who have died. And when you have actually experienced death, even more than once, you do not forget how many times you have died. I've had a lot of experience with people just like you. My generation has a name for them. They're called "bullshitters". And they never gain respect from others by telling tall tales.

The first statement was a figure of speech for the most part. You chose to take it literally which indicates that you are only interested in lobbing insults and will grasp at anything to do so.

The statements after that are what I believe and what I stand for. One of the major complaints about Christians, which I believe is valid, is that they are obsessed with death because they mistakenly believe that that is what Jesus was about. They celebrate his death rather than his life. Example, Mel Gibson.

Not only have I read the Bible numerous times, I have read many of the works upon which it was based. And if it weren't for my ancestors there would be no Protestant Church on Earth and most likely no Catholic Church either since it would have been destroyed a long time ago.
User avatar
Alalu
 
Posts: 153
Joined: Sun Sep 01, 2013 2:23 pm

Postby Alalu » Wed Apr 30, 2014 7:23 pm

The quote is from the Gospel of Phillip.
User avatar
Alalu
 
Posts: 153
Joined: Sun Sep 01, 2013 2:23 pm

PreviousNext

Return to Religion & Spirituality

cron
  • View new posts
  • View unanswered posts
  • Who is online
  • In total there are 0 users online :: 0 registered, 0 hidden and 0 guests (based on users active over the past 10 minutes)
  • Most users ever online was 292 on Mon Apr 23, 2012 3:19 pm
  • Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 0 guests