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"Idolatry"

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Postby greeney2 » Thu Mar 06, 2014 9:13 am

The bottom line is that the concept of Idolatry varies in many different religion cultures from Christianity, Catholicism, HIndu, Buddism, and Islam , regarding the "Veneration or Respect" of the Virgin Mary, The Saints, or others given Holy stature in a given religion. It just becomes another religion theology difference, "we are the ones right, and the rest of you ALL have it wrong". In other words intolerance for others religion, with a judgmental attitude. And people wonder why religions have all declined in attendance. The degree of which differs from billions who are no more worshiping false idols, to those who are convinced they are. A kid with a rabbits foot is not worshiping a false idol, anymore than a good luck horseshoe, or 4-leaf clover is, but convincing some is impossible. Some think just the statue of Mary alone is a false idol, let alone praying at it, so those might think a Nativity scene is the same. It that is all true, a lot of people will be in trouble over the Christmas Tree.

Its common sense to me!
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Postby qmark » Fri Mar 07, 2014 4:06 pm

greeney2 wrote:The bottom line is that the concept of Idolatry varies in many different religion cultures from Christianity, Catholicism, HIndu, Buddism, and Islam ,


My bottom line is, I don't care what these other religions have to say about idolatry. My only concern is, what does the bible say.

greeney2 wrote:It just becomes another religion theology difference, "we are the ones right, and the rest of you ALL have it wrong".


Keeping the debate within Christianity excludes "the rest of you". Keeping the debate within the family means the theological difference can most likely be resolved. But even if it can't be resolved, the family will still remain united.

greeney2 wrote: In other words intolerance for others religion, with a judgmental attitude.


We are told to judge with "righteous judgment". You can't be a fruit tester without using judgment. When it comes to the basic fundamentals of the faith, we need to be intolerant of any error trying to creep in. We can debate the secondary issues and the Lord will bring us together.

greeney2 wrote:A kid with a rabbits foot is not worshiping a false idol, anymore than a good luck horseshoe, or 4-leaf clover is, but convincing some is impossible. Some think just the statue of Mary alone is a false idol, let alone praying at it, so those might think a Nativity scene is the same. It that is all true, a lot of people will be in trouble over the Christmas Tree.


All of that stuff can be, or may not be. That rabbits foot could be an idol for some kid, and the kid right next to him with the same rabbits foot it isn't. It depends on the individual.

Here is what is important. What does the Bible say and what is the Holy Spirit speaking to you about it. I'm saying "you" in the general sense as it pertains to the brethren.
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Postby greeney2 » Sat Mar 08, 2014 9:42 am

qmark wrote:Keeping the debate within Christianity excludes "the rest of you". Keeping the debate within the family means the theological difference can most likely be resolved. But even if it can't be resolved, the family will still remain united.


Qmark, nothing could be further from the truth, because if you were right we would not have a countless number of different Christian Religions within Christianity, we would have one. Those theological differences were not resolved and why so many different religions came into being, and went in separate beliefs. Beyond the most obvious belief that Jesus is the Son of God, and died on the cross for us, they sure all have different ideas.

I wish what you said about "the family" was true, but I'm not so sure it is even close. If truth were to be told, there is probably more intolerance between Christian religions, as Anti-Semitic intolerance. Some Christian religions many times will forbid even going to another Christian Church next Sunday. They` are very clannish, stick only to themselves, and shun off outsiders, including blood relatives many times. There are major differences in what are the Sacraments, Baptism, Communion, and the different interpretation of Bible passages and verses that is never ending. If you can figure out why so many different religions came from one Bible, you have done what scholars study for a lifetime.
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Postby qmark » Sun Mar 09, 2014 11:54 am

greeney2 wrote:Qmark, nothing could be further from the truth, because if you were right we would not have a countless number of different Christian Religions within Christianity, we would have one. Those theological differences were not resolved and why so many different religions came into being, and went in separate beliefs. Beyond the most obvious belief that Jesus is the Son of God, and died on the cross for us, they sure all have different ideas.


That's the point, greeney. The "most obvious belief that Jesus is the Son of God, and died on the cross for us" makes us one family. In reality, there are only two religions in the world from the Christian perspective. One believes in Jesus Christ and the salvation offered through Him through God's grace, and following His Word, and the other does not.

greeney2 wrote:I wish what you said about "the family" was true, but I'm not so sure it is even close. If truth were to be told, there is probably more intolerance between Christian religions, as Anti-Semitic intolerance.


It is true, BUT, let's be real, many families have their "black sheep". However, although they may be "black sheep", they are still sheep. Christians should be intolerant against sin and error, but at the same time, love our neighbor.

greeney2 wrote: If you can figure out why so many different religions came from one Bible, you have done what scholars study for a lifetime.


This is easy greeney, it's not rocket science. Any divisions among Christian denominations exist because they teach traditions of men as the gospel of God when they are not.
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Postby greeney2 » Mon Mar 10, 2014 8:59 am

The only reason different traditions would evolve and be taught, is because as I said, the interpreting of the same Bible is different. And as I said between the different religions, are many fundamental differences that really are total intolerance for each other in practice, and are major differences. Baptism and Communion are certainly 2 of them, just as this subject led to another major difference concerning Mary in Catholic theology. I see very little tolerance from some Born again Christians towards Roman Catholics when it comes to these 3 issues. I've experienced down right hostility, and real arrogance in their stance against these things. It always boils down to the concept that one group is convinced they are right, and that whatever "Family" should mean, actions speak a lot louder than words.

We always talk a lot about "Loving thy neighbor", but what does that really mean in real practice beyond saying it for effect to everyone else, and not really doing it? A lot of Christians need to take a lot of lessons, just in how they treat or regard others, just within the "Christian Family" as your call it, let alone outside of it.
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Postby frrostedman » Mon Mar 10, 2014 5:45 pm

qmark wrote:
frrostedman wrote:...(as in the case of today's typical Christian church that avoids the controversial and provocative teachings of the bible)


By the way, I absolutely agree. I believe some wolves might have slipped in wearing sheep's clothing.

Also, glad to see you around brother, I miss these type of conversations.


Bless you brother. In all your paths, in everything that you do.
Every one who is seriously involved in the pursuit of science becomes convinced that a spirit is manifest in the laws of the Universe-a spirit vastly superior to that of man. - Albert Einstein
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Postby frrostedman » Mon Mar 10, 2014 5:58 pm

greeney2 wrote:
qmark wrote:anybody or anything becomes an idol if it/they are elevated above God in their heart of hearts.


I think I said exactly those words, "we all know if we are worshiping a false idol in our hearts". I imagine there are many who are so lost in their priority's of life, they forget about God in their life, obsessed with material things, fame, fortune, its a long list.

I am in agreement with greeney and that's why I started this thread. Since when is placing a lot of importance on money, the same as worshiping an idol or false god?

qmark wrote:As for those who play the idolatry card, I'm sure some do that out of genuine concern


Maybe, but i also think its misused by misguided people as I gave examples of.

Yep. *raises a glass to greeney*

Mark, I could be wrong but I think Greeney's scenario is more often the case. Also, if someone "has their heart in the right place" in trying to scare me out of a certain behavior by falsely accusing me of committing a sin, then I think that person is dangerous. Not the kind of folks I'd like to be around. Too many of them in church, too. Me, (being a sinner and no better) I try to play the "you're sinning" card very, very seldomly and only in extreme, obvious situations.
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Postby frrostedman » Mon Mar 10, 2014 6:01 pm

Thought/Observation: I think we are all very aware -- in the Evangelical Church especially, but in general, most Churches, there are people who condemn others all the time for committing sins. And really I think it's because it makes them feel better about themselves.
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Postby qmark » Mon Mar 10, 2014 7:40 pm

frrostedman wrote:Thought/Observation: I think we are all very aware -- in the Evangelical Church especially, but in general, most Churches, there are people who condemn others all the time for committing sins. And really I think it's because it makes them feel better about themselves.


I can't argue with that. There is a lot of truth in that statement. I guess I am a little less skeptical with people who warn about idolatry ( which is a serious issue ) as opposed to people who accuse of idolatry. At that point we may be looking at people who haven't addressed the "log" in their own eye.

However, a church that doesn't address sin at all isn't much of a church at all.
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Postby greeney2 » Mon Mar 10, 2014 11:58 pm

Glad I'm not alone in my thinking, seems like others beside me have gotten the same impressions. Qmark it is sometimes a fine line between warning and accusing others. Back again to common sense on the issue, those who do accuse usually are imagining something that isn't true, and are doing way too much reading between the lines.

I agree that any church that is not addressing issues of sin are not much of a church, and we are in a time where one major social issue is testing those churches, with regard to sin. The issue is Same sex marriage, which hopes all the churches, and all religions will recognize this, however the message is very clear not just in the Bible, the sins that are involved. The gay rights groups would like to brand all religions as homophobic and teaching hate, because they regard what they are doing as a sin. The Bible is pretty clear about that. At the very least any Christian religion can not condone what is written against in Scriptures. Its rather ludicrous of the gay groups to expect this, anymore than expecting churches to start ignoring adultery because is is so common. Sin is sin, and not less of a sin because everyone is joining in! There are also other social issues that have become commonplace, that in conflict with religious teachings.
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