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Is MENTAL ILLNESS a MYTH?

In this forum, questions are asked which are really tough to answer. Some philosophical, some regarding morality and many others. Have fun, and post your own personal tough questions!

Postby Nesaie » Wed Apr 29, 2009 1:05 am

greeney2 wrote: There is little doubt that mental illness is real, but to what point?

Really? Define "mental illness". Give the history of "mental illness".

greeney2 wrote:The problem is mental illness is always the excuse for bad behavior in our liberal thinking mindset. Little Johnny didn;t just murder 4 people, Little Johnny was abused and couldn't help himself.


Nope, "little Johnny" didn't have a good breakfast, he had a cereal his mom believed was "nutritious", but was really made of high fructose genetically modified corn syrup. When "little Johnny" got to school, he was hyper from the extra sugar and no nutrition, and is bouncing off the walls. "Little Johnny" is now told that he has ADHD and his Mother has a conference with the teacher. So "little Johny" is taken to a shrink, who prescribes speed to "little Johnny". "Little Johnny" takes the pills for a while, but realizes he feels sick when he does, along with a lot of other side effects. After a while, "little Johnny" finds out he can sell these pills and stop taking them, he makes lots of money selling these pills to his friends.

One day "little Johnny" realizes he can go to a shrink and get lots of pills, he is ADHD, and sell them to make money. He starts taking a few new pills...for a while. Then he needs money, so he sells all the pills he has. He no longer has a supply...he freaks out, grabs a gun, doesn't know what he is doing, and kills people.

Every "school shooter" has either been on a pharmaceutical or just recently (without Dr. permission) got off a pharmaceutical. The difference between the story I told and the school shooters is the type of drug. But, Ritalin is just a gateway drug for depressant drugs (no, I didn't leave of "anti" off accidentally).

It isn't about something that happened when a kid was growing up. It is all about the psychotropic drugs prescribed by doctors. The drugs create psychosis, not prevent it or cure it.

Oh, "little Johnny" can fix himself by not eating the genetically modified corn, high fructose corn syrup, and instead eating organic vegetables, grass fed meat, get rid of mercury, vitamin D from the sun, etc. It helps the brain in too many ways to state here.

greeney2 wrote:Everything from brain cancer to a hangnail is now considered a disease nowadays.


Brain cancer is a disease, most likely caused by a virus, but a disease no less. What I've researched, I believe all cancer is caused by a virus. I'm still waiting for information that shows some cancers aren't.
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Postby bionic » Wed Apr 29, 2009 6:53 am

I think there is such a thing as mental illness..but that too many things these days are labeled as such..that just aren't (personality is a spectrum)

I mean..there are things that contribute to geniune mental illness, illness caused by misfunctions in the brain..stuff that is caused by things like head trauma, lesions and tumors, metabolic disorders, immune stuff, disease (like alzheimers, parkinsons, heck..syphilis).

This stuff is physically real...actual, physical stuff has gone wrong in the working of a person's brain that has made them mentally ill..not able to function within normal standards).

Science and medicine just doesn't know enough about the brain yet.
So there can be stuff that is obviously worng..and obviously caused by some kind of physical defect..
For instance, my son has Autism, also he has partial seizures, and Tourrettes and ADHD.
This is stuff that is caused by some kind pf disease process..not abusive parents or some kind of triggering event like a war..or serious trauma overload. (though..things like that seem to lead to actual changes in one's brain function, too..it's all very catch 22)
He takes meds that have obvious impacted his life for the better.
When he developed tics (quite suddenly..and horrifically a few years back) Orap just about saved him. He barely tics anymore.


The fact that someone displays characteristics that are obviously 'off' but there is no known physical reason for..doesn't mean there ISN'T a physical reason for. Science just hans't figured that out yet.

For instance..I have asthma..there was a time asthma was considered a "nerve conditon" (she's too nervous) A character disorder orf sorts. WRONG.. It's an immune disorder.

My son's Autism. there was a time is was blaimed on bad mothering.

So many things are blamed on personailty/character disorders..until science finds their actual physical (usually metabolic or immune or disease)cause.

I believe the same thing happens with mental illness all the time.

I have to wonder how mental illness out there is really the result of head trauma. (we've all, at some point hit our heads pretty hard)

But also, mental illness..the dx of it..has a-lot to do with the considered "norms" in a society at any given point. What's considered "normal" for one culture might be down right crazy to another.

So..maybe the most observed form of "mental illness" is one in which a person doesn't have the instinctual herding instinct thing that gets them to convert to their cultures idea of what is "normal" (whatever it may be at the time)


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lu9Ycq64Gy4
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Postby wolfshadow » Fri May 01, 2009 11:58 am

IMO society as a whole is way overmedicated and it seems that it has risen within the last 10-15 years.There is a pill for everything now.As for the whole ADHD and ADD thing in kids nowadays I bet when half of us were growing up we could have been classified as having it,were we given pills for it,no we went out side and worked off all the energy that kids have.
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Postby bionic » Fri May 01, 2009 12:22 pm

I do believe that about meds, In general.

But in my sons case..his meds literally have saved his life.
Liek insulin for a Diabetic.

Without Trileptal he'd be siezurign all the time by now

without Oprap..he'd be ticking so much his quality of life would be..well..not in any way good

He's on Stratera to try to help him be less hyper (mostly for school..at home he doesn;t need it..school overstimulates the hell out of him..his nervous system is a trip wire..practically..it doesn't take much to overload him)..it helps a little


But my son has moderate to high functioning Autism..so..yah know..he NEEDS those meds

I use to be very anti meds..until my son get ot the point that I had to give them a try...thye have helped him a-lot

But you are right..meds are way over prescribed


I believe ADD/ADHD is maybe over dx'd..I use top really believe it was..but since my son came along..and i see these kids a-lot in my life..thorugh my sons special ed classes..I see them one on one..with my own eyes..I am not so sure..many of these kids ..they do have some stuff going on..they are so easily oversti,ulated..their nervous systems are hyper aware..they don't miss a thing..it makes it hard for them to focus (I think ADD/ADHD is a mild form of Autism..personally)

I truly believe society has become way too overstimulating for the acaerage human nervous system these days.

All that oversti,ulation can lead to all sorts of werid quirks and eventually nervous exhaustion...breakdown..etc..

JMO

The human nervous system need to catch up..adapt
Willie Wonka quotes..
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Why? Are you having fun?
A little nonsense now and then is relished by the wisest men.
We are the music makers, we are the dreamers of dreams
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Postby wolfshadow » Fri May 01, 2009 12:33 pm

Bionic after what you wrote about your son I do understand about the meds.I know that there are people out there that do need meds for certain conditions such as your sons case,but the number of people that tell me there kids are on meds for ADD/ADHD because they are so hyper is astounding.They make it out to seem like it's the thing to do nowadays.

Bionic I just want you know that I think your a very strong woman. :)
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Postby Nesaie » Sat May 02, 2009 2:41 am

Hey Bionic,

First, if I don't get back to this thread soon, I apologize, work is kicking my rear right now and I'm on dialup for the next two days (boyfriend's place in the woods :D)

The reason(s) I'm against the pharmaceutical drugs is also do to my personal experiences, as your experiences have shown you their benefits. It sounds like we all agree on the over-prescription of drugs. The drug dealers on the corner are way more honest than the pharmaceutical companies.

This whole thing sounds like it extends into many different areas. ADHD, that is like the old hyper-active thing. When I was a kid, my father had a girlfriend who's son had hyper-activity. Before he went to bed, she gave him black coffee, it helped him sleep. She was Mormon and didn't believe in caffeine, but this was medicine and it worked.

Diabetes, in my opinion, is based on nutrition (even type 1). My boyfriend has a buddy who was diabetic (type 2) and through diet and his girlfriend's cooking, that is now under control. My cousin was type 1 diabetic, she had a stroke when she was 26...she wasn't expected to live past 18, she lived to 36.

Bionic, it sounds like you're open to alternatives? I'm not saying to quit what is currently happening. My suggestion is to maybe not stop what you're doing that works, but adding nutrition and cleansing of mercury. I've done much more research into cancer and "anti"-Depressants than what you're going through, but I'm thinking there may be some commonalities through food between these ailments?
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Postby bionic » Sun May 03, 2009 10:45 pm

Thanks Woflie :)

I'm not strong..just doing what I have to do.

Nessie,,
I completely agree with you about meds being over prescibed. I thin k that "whoever" wants to illegalize certain drugs just so they can get us hooked on their drugs.
It's all "valley of the Dolls" these days.


I actually did all the alternative sutff with my kid..for years. (Gawd..if you only knew..people that know me from my nomadrat days..thye know..I was SO INTO that)

the GFCF diet..chelating..suppliments...certain fats and oils..all of it

people do all that stuff and declare their kid healed around age fi ve or six (not realizing that most jkids with Autims have a jump in abilites around that age, regardless)
Yet..please notice..no one is parading around all these "healed" Autistic older kids and adults..where are they all? There should be tons of them by now..with all the parents that claimed their kid was recovered years ago. If these kids were rcovered as aduklts their paretns would all be showing them off and yellung form mountains.."see...cured!!" but they are not.
Why is that?

because they aren't cured after all and the disheartened parents just don't want to 'go there'(yes..there is the rare "cured" kid out there)

You sometimes ee a recovered adult child..truly recovered..but that child usually had rich paretns that could afford 1:1 intervetnion..all day long..and that's what the kids really need..instensive intervention..any recovered kid..that's what you see... everytime..intensive intervention

I still do Cod Liver Oil...because it helps.

I tried the caffeine route, too..for the hyperactivety..

trust me..if there is an alternative to his meds I will find it and use it,..so far..they and extensive intervention have been the best option for him

my advice to any parent of a kid with Autism..above anything else..would be..intensive intervention..and if they can't afford someone else to do it..then they have to do it themselves(aka...Helen Keller and Annie Sulliven)

They have to be forced to get beyond their overwrought senses to particpate in our shared idea of reality.

but I am digressing, here
Willie Wonka quotes..
What is this Wonka, some kind of funhouse?
Why? Are you having fun?
A little nonsense now and then is relished by the wisest men.
We are the music makers, we are the dreamers of dreams
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Postby chiselray » Mon May 04, 2009 5:27 am

at1with0 wrote:http://www.abc.net.au/rn/allinthemind/stories/2009/2530830.htm

In 1961 maverick psychiatrist and libertarian Professor Thomas Szasz published his controversial and influential epic, The Myth of Mental Illness. In it he argued that mental illness is a fiction and a medical metaphor. Half a century later he maintains we live in a therapeutic state—a 'pharmacracy' where psychiatry is synonymous with coercion. On the eve of his 89th birthday he joins Natasha Mitchell in conversation over two weeks about his contentious legacy.







http://www.abc.net.au/rn/allinthemind/s ... 544843.htm

Controversial psychiatrist Professor Thomas Szasz wrote The Myth of Mental Illness in 1961. Nearly 50 years later, on the eve of his 89th birthday, he continues to both ignite and inspire -- as the huge number of comments on the All in the Mind blog indicates after our extended interview with him. This week, two psychiatrists respond to their profession's most vigilant critic.



I personally think this guy is suffering from OCD..Obsessive Compulsive case of Denial.
There are many good psychiatrists who can help this man ,if he wants help.
Pharmaceutical drugs should be prescribed as soon as possible
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Postby Nesaie » Tue May 05, 2009 10:47 pm

bionic wrote: Thanks Woflie :)

I'm not strong..just doing what I have to do.


You ARE strong! Or you couldn't do what you ARE doing! ;)

bionic wrote:Nessie,,
I completely agree with you about meds being over prescibed. I thin k that "whoever" wants to illegalize certain drugs just so they can get us hooked on their drugs.
It's all "valley of the Dolls" these days.


I actually did all the alternative sutff with my kid..for years. (Gawd..if you only knew..people that know me from my nomadrat days..thye know..I was SO INTO that)


I don't know the answers, I just have some questions. And those questions increase with the more information I learn.

Maybe, a combination of pharma and nutrition?

I can't imagine what you're going through, or the frustration of your experience. :(

I too am frustrated, for other reasons. And I wish I had somebody I could blame, a "the Them" if you would. So far one of my "Them's" is Monsanto, but that is another discussion. (though they did buy out Pfizer)

bionic wrote:the GFCF diet..chelating..suppliments...certain fats and oils..all of it


I'm not familiar with this, link?

bionic wrote:people do all that stuff and declare their kid healed around age fi ve or six (not realizing that most jkids with Autims have a jump in abilites around that age, regardless)
Yet..please notice..no one is parading around all these "healed" Autistic older kids and adults..where are they all? There should be tons of them by now..with all the parents that claimed their kid was recovered years ago. If these kids were rcovered as aduklts their paretns would all be showing them off and yellung form mountains.."see...cured!!" but they are not.
Why is that?


I don't know, good question.

bionic wrote:because they aren't cured after all and the disheartened parents just don't want to 'go there'(yes..there is the rare "cured" kid out there)


How?

bionic wrote:You sometimes ee a recovered adult child..truly recovered..but that child usually had rich paretns that could afford 1:1 intervetnion..all day long..and that's what the kids really need..instensive intervention..any recovered kid..that's what you see... everytime..intensive intervention


What is different between what can be paid for and not paid for? More questions here...

bionic wrote:I still do Cod Liver Oil...because it helps.


Really? Cool! Does it help because of the Omega3s? Mercola came out lately against cod liver oil because of the ratio between Vitamin D and Vitamin A. Too much Vitamin A. I don't know enough about it, but know that living in Seattle it's hard to get Vitamin D.

bionic wrote:I tried the caffeine route, too..for the hyperactivety..

trust me..if there is an alternative to his meds I will find it and use it,..so far..they and extensive intervention have been the best option for him

my advice to any parent of a kid with Autism..above anything else..would be..intensive intervention..and if they can't afford someone else to do it..then they have to do it themselves(aka...Helen Keller and Annie Sulliven)

They have to be forced to get beyond their overwrought senses to particpate in our shared idea of reality.

but I am digressing, here


Hey, there may be some lurkers here who will take your advice on this.

Again, I know nothing of Autism. My motivation to research health is cancer and "bi-polar" or is it "manic-depression" or is it schitzophrenia...ah hell, when Dr's misdiagnose schitzophrenia and manic depression 73% of the time, it's no wonder I get confused...But, I digress. ;)
Such a society would be dominated by an elite, unrestrained by traditional values. Soon it will be possible to assert almost continuous surveillance over every citizen... - Zbigniew Brezhinsky
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Postby bionic » Thu May 07, 2009 8:08 pm

Ness..
I had the longest, coolest post to you..but my computer froze up and I lost it, dammit.
I will post on this again..eventually.

but I did want to say..you're cool..thanks for caring 8-)
Willie Wonka quotes..
What is this Wonka, some kind of funhouse?
Why? Are you having fun?
A little nonsense now and then is relished by the wisest men.
We are the music makers, we are the dreamers of dreams
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bionic
 
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