The Black Vault

capricorn wrote:

chiselray wrote:The bottom line is ,if they aren't obtained in any way possible ,then they can't be used..

I'll quote what I said a few pages back

capricorn wrote:The Fact is that firearm technology exists; it cannot be un-invented. As long as there is metal working and welding capability, it matters not what gun laws are imposed on law abiding people. Those who wish to have guns, and disregard the law, will have guns. Gun Control clears a path for violence by criminals.

I agree with Chiselray ..... & iv said it myself. If you cant get the guns ... you cant kill anybody.

It's a lot easier to kill somebody with a semi Auto sniper rifle from grate distance. & not be stopped withing 1 or two shots.
( thus being able to kill large numbers from a roof top ) Than it is to kill large numbers of people with a shot gun that need to be reloaded every few shots ....... thus allowing the cops / security to subdue the assailant, before any more people are killed.

It's a bit hard to lay down suppression fire' from a roof top or from behind a car from within a house. or from a dirt mound or book depository, if all you have is a hand gun or double barrel shot gun.

greeney2 wrote:
You may see your actions for this crime as a good thing, but what about all those who used shotguns for legal hunting, abide by all laws, now an entire country is paying for this. These measures were widely disapproved by the majority of Australians, you and Rath very well know.

More lies & propaganda Greeney2.

These measures were widely disapproved by the majority of Australians,

Lies.

The Australian Prime-Minister who passed the gun reforms was John Howard.

John Howard was 1st elected in 1996 .... He passed the gun reform laws in his 1st year as Prime-minister & the gun reforms where so popular He was re-elected again & again & again.

wikipedia wrote:Early in the term Howard had championed significant new restrictions on gun ownership following the Port Arthur massacre in which 35 people had been shot dead. Achieving agreement in the face of immense opposition from within the Coalition and some State governments, was credited with significantly elevating Howard’s stature as Prime Minister despite a backlash from core Coalition rural constituents.[50]

Second Term

John Howard was so popular after his 1997 gun reform laws ..... That Prim-Minister John Howard called a snap election for October 1998, sooner than required.


Third term

Howard had first met US President George W. Bush in the days before the 11 September terrorist attacks and was in Washington the morning of the attacks.

Fourth term

wikipedia wrote:In April 2006, the government announced it had completely paid off the last of $96 billion of Commonwealth net debt inherited when it came to power in 1996.[83] By 2007, Howard had been in office for 12 of the 15 years of consecutive annual growth enjoyed by the Australian economy. Unemployment had fallen from 8.1% at the start of his term to 4.1% in 2007,[84] and average weekly earnings grew 24.4% in real terms.[1] Howard often cited economic management as a strong point of the government, and during his Prime Minister-ship, opinion polling consistently showed that a majority of the electorate thought his government were better to handle the economy than the Opposition.

John Howard was so popular in Australia' after his 1st year in office. When he introduced the Gun Reform laws. That John Howard was elected to office as Australia's Prim-minister 4 times over 12 years.

& Mr Howard, Is the second-longest serving Australian prime minister in history.

Now Do you really think that if the gun reform laws where not popular in Australia. John Howard would have been voted out after his first term in office .... But that's not what happened is it. he was so popular that the Australian public voted him in 3 more times after the gun reforms passed.

now an entire country is paying for this

Lies. Australian's own as many guns today as they did back in 1996 ....... They are just different types of guns.

So your beat up & propaganda about how tougher gun laws will take away your rights to own guns. ..... is just plain wrong.

Proved by your reliance on Australia as to what happens if the government reforms gun laws. You lose your rights to own guns
((( wrong again )))

Australia's gun reforms have had zero impact on people who wish to own a gun.

It has only targeted criminals & psychopaths who should not have access to weapons to start with.

& to that end the Australian law has been very successful indeed.

No mass killings since. (( policy success ))

http://home.nzcity.co.nz/news/article.a ... ain%2Cnrhl

Seems like the only thing you ever do lately is claim everyone is claiming outright lies, from the facts and statistics anyone can look up and read. It is all in Black and white to read, all you have to do is look up the history of your shooting and its all in black and white. Australians did object to these laws, it is not a lie.

greeney2 wrote:Seems like the only thing you ever do lately is claim everyone is claiming outright lies, from the facts and statistics anyone can look up and read. It is all in Black and white to read, all you have to do is look up the history of your shooting and its all in black and white. Australians did object to these laws, it is not a lie.

Some did yes ... that's normal that the inbred red necks & the criminal element from other country's ( u.s hells angels & KKK )
& people who run prostitutes & drugs from the likes of Thailand, Philippians, running drugs & women from the golden triangle... ect ect just 1 hours north of Australia.

Yes alot of people did protest as my posts say, but those people don't count as they where inbred rednecks & racists from the USA branch of the KKK who had tried & failed to gain a foot hold in Australia.

Fact is the people who protested over the Australian gun reform laws, where either Australian outcasts & criminals. Or foreign hicks who had no say in Australia one way or the other.

So their opinions altho load .......... only made up around half of a single percent of the Australia population.

The other 99.5 percent were in full support of the gun reforms ...... & that's why they passed through the Parliament.

& that's why John Howard was re-elected another 3 times over the next 10 years.

rath wrote:If you cant get the guns ... you cant kill anybody.

Are you really so naive as to think that a ban on anything will result in that thing being unattainable?

Even your statistics don't show gun-related deaths in Australia is zero.

rath wrote:

greeney2 wrote:Seems like the only thing you ever do lately is claim everyone is claiming outright lies, from the facts and statistics anyone can look up and read. It is all in Black and white to read, all you have to do is look up the history of your shooting and its all in black and white. Australians did object to these laws, it is not a lie.

Some did yes ... that's normal that the inbred red necks & the criminal element from other country's ( u.s hells angels & KKK )
& people who run prostitutes & drugs from the likes of Thailand, Philippians, running drugs & women from the golden triangle... ect ect just 1 hours north of Australia.

Yes alot of people did protest as my posts say, but those people don't count as they where inbred rednecks & racists from the USA branch of the KKK who had tried & failed to gain a foot hold in Australia.

Fact is the people who protested over the Australian gun reform laws, where either Australian outcasts & criminals. Or foreign hicks who had no say in Australia one way or the other.

So their opinions altho load .......... only made up around half of a single percent of the Australia population.

The other 99.5 percent were in full support of the gun reforms ...... & that's why they passed through the Parliament.

& that's why John Howard was re-elected another 3 times over the next 10 years.

Look who is Lying now!

No matter what you want to believe, the numbers don't lie... Guns don't commit crimes, people do.


Anyone who thinks Assault Rifles are the problems are suffering from delusions.

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-250_162-575 ... -gun-laws/


Speaking to an audience that included family members of those killed a month ago in the shootings at Sandy Hook Elementary School, as well as children who wrote to Mr. Obama in the wake of recent episodes of mass violence, the president outlined a series of steps both political and administrative he says would limit access to guns and certain types of ammunition, make mental health care more attainable, and increase federal funds for both research and law enforcement.

"Because while there is no law or set of laws that can prevent every senseless act of violence completely, no piece of legislation that will prevent every tragedy, every act of evil, if there's even one thing we can do to reduce this violence, if there's even one life that can be saved, then we've got an obligation to try," he said. "This is our first task as a society: Keeping our children safe. This is how we will be judged. And their voices should compel us to change."

Among the initiatives outlined in Mr. Obama's plan include universal background checks for gun sales; the reinstatement and strengthening of the assault weapons ban; capping ammunition magazines to a 10-round limit; banning armor-piercing ammunition; providing schools with resource officers and school counselors; putting more police officers on the streets; creating serious punishments for gun trafficking, and ensuring that health insurance plans cover mental health benefits.

Early this morning, before Mr. Obama had even unveiled his proposals, the group released an ad calling the president an "elitist hypocrite" because his daughters have Secret Service protection.

"The assault weapons ban, the magazine limitations, does not solve the problem of gun crime," said Rep. Dave Reichert, R-Wash., a former sheriff, in an interview today with CBS News. "I think you really have to address the mental health issues and that's the first and foremost issue. And then secondly, the laws that we have in this land already need to be enforced."

capricorn wrote:No matter what you want to believe, the numbers don't lie... Guns don't commit crimes, people do.


Anyone who thinks Assault Rifles are the problems are suffering from delusions.

Thanks Capricorn .... this guy is saying what iv been saying since post 1 ........

That the figures can say whatever one wants them to say ....

& the Gun lobby's are no different.

Even this guys own figures are bias .... & he manipulates the stats to fit his own views.

Look where he compares metropolitan city's in Britain & the USA.
( he sez the USA has more metropolitan city's of over 200,000 compared to the USA. )

But then he goes & compares Britain's Worst with the Highest crime rate ....... to one of the USA safest rural towns, who have low crime rates.

Also .......... he is doing what you are trying to do ..... change the stats from the number of murders or the number of gun deaths ..... & trying to include other crimes ... & over all crimes... even crimes that have nothing to do with guns ....


Why did he not compare a normal U.S city to its comparison in the U.K.

Because he would have shown that gun crime in the USA is far worse than anywhere else.

So like always ....... he lied, manipulated & twisted the truth to fit his own views...

(( Big Surprise ))

Like i posted b4 .... over all crime includes kids stealing lolly pops & people who jay walk & people who swear in public.

So like i said .......... If you just get real.

& if you wanna compare Gun related crime in the USA ..... To Gun related crime in any other nation on earth. the USA is far & away the most unsafe place ion the world.

greeney2 wrote:Look who is Lying now!

Just face it Greeney2 .... you don't have any understanding of the Australian electoral system' nor the Australian electorate.

However the facts are the facts .... After John Howard was first elected to office in 1996 .... & he passed the gun reform laws in Australia in 1996-1997.

John Howard was re-elected another 3 times. at 3 more national elections in Australia.

Nobody who gets elected 4 times to the Prim-ministers office ( our version of your president ) can be seen as unpopular.

John Howard passed Australia's gun reforms in his first year as Australia's Prime-Minister ..... & yet he was re-elected 3 more times over the next 10 years.

Imagine if Obama passed tough new gun reform laws in his first year as president of the usa back in 2008.

If Obama passed gun reform laws in his first year as u.s president in 2008 ........ Do you think he would have been re elected again in 2012.

John Howard was elected by a national vote, 4 time .... Not once, .... Not twice .... But Four times.

(( you can try and spin this all you like. but you cant change the past. ))