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WWII veterans mark El Alamein anniversary

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Postby rath » Mon Oct 22, 2012 12:54 am

World War II veterans on a trip to Egypt have toured the battlefields of El Alamein, where they defeated a German army 70 years ago.

Twenty-one veterans toured the battlefields where they dealt a crushing blow to the German Panzer Army of Africa and began to turn the tide against the Nazis.

The Battle of El Alamein was a crucial turning point in the war.

Allied troops defeated the army of Field Marshal Erwin Rommel, ending the Nazi's hopes of controlling the Middle East.


Three major battles occurred around El Alamein between July and November 1942, and were the turning point of the war in North Africa. The Australian 9th Division, led by Lieutenant General Leslie Morshead, played a key role in two of these battles, enhancing its reputation earned defending Tobruk during 1941.

The struggle for North Africa saw the pendulum swing sharply in favour of the Axis from January 1942. The Axis forces comprised German and Italian troops and were known as Panzerarmee Afrika, led by Field Marshal Erwin Rommel, “The Desert Fox”. Opposing him was the British Eighth Army commanded by General Claude Auchinleck. This army comprised British, Australian, New Zealand, South African, and Indian troops. By the end of June, Rommel had forced the Allies back deep into Egypt, and the capture of Cairo and the Suez Canal seemed a very real possibility.

The Allies pinned all their hopes on their new defensive position near the tiny railway stop of El Alamein. Here, the battlefield narrowed between the coast and the impassable Qattara Depression. Rommel, wanting to maintain the pressure made another thrust on 1 July, hoping to dislodge Eighth Army from the Alamein position and open the way to Cairo and Suez. The Allies however had regrouped sufficiently to repulse the attack and make some counterattacks of their own. In these first days of July, the fate of the whole campaign hung in the balance. Both sides by now critically weakened and disorganised, missed opportunities for decisive victories. Both now took time over the next few days to reorganise and lick their wounds.

Before dawn on 10 July the 9th Division launched an attack on the northern flank and succeeded in taking the important high ground around Tel el Eisa. This caught Rommel off guard as he had concentrated his forces for his own offensive in the south. The Australians spent the next few days fighting off heavy counterattacks as Rommel redirected much of his forces against them. The 9th Division infantry owed much to Australian, British and South African artillery, as well as the Desert Air Force (DAF), in repelling these counterattacks. Australians were also present in the DAF, flying with of Nos. 3 and 450 Squadrons, RAAF. Allied infantrymen had varying opinions regarding armoured support, feeling that sometimes the tanks provided welcome support and protection, but also that sometimes they failed them completely.

Fighting then spread to other parts of the front and continued for most of July. By the end of the month, both sides had fought each other to a standstill. On the 27th, one Australian Battalion, the 2/28th, was virtually wiped out when they were surrounded by German tanks and help failed to arrive in time (see Remembering 1942, “Ruin Ridge”).

When the fighting died down at the end of July, Eighth Army, despite its severe losses, could take some comfort knowing that it had stopped Rommel’s drive into Egypt and now held the important high ground near the coast. This provided good observation of the enemy and an excellent position from which to launch further offensives.

From August until the end of October, the Allied army grew steadily in strength with the arrival of more troops and equipment. The Axis forces, on the other hand, were weakening, with their supply lines strangled by Allied air and naval attacks. A change in command of the Eighth Army occurred in mid-August when Auchinleck was replaced by General Bernard Montgomery. “Monty” – as he was universally known – set about making positive changes in the Eighth Army, training it and preparing it for the battles to come.

On the last day of August Rommel launched another offensive. In this last and desperate attempt to oust the Allies from the Alamein line, German and Italian armoured forces massed in the southern sector and made a sweeping hook that drove the Allies back to the Alam el Halfa Ridge. The Allied strength, however, soon proved itself as they pushed the Axis forces back over the next few days. In addition, they faced incessant Allied bombing from the DAF, an acute shortage of petrol for their tanks, and a diversionary raid by Australians in the north. After this battle, Rommel went on the defensive, and prepared for the Allied offensive he knew would soon come.

On the night of 23 October 1942, a massive artillery barrage heralded the great Allied offensive. The infantry successfully captured most of their objectives; however, the tanks were unable to follow through and continue the thrust. With the Axis forces stubbornly holding their lines intact, Montgomery worried that his offensive was becoming bogged down. Changing tactics from the drive westwards, he ordered the Australians of 9th Division to switch their attack northward. What followed was a week of extremely fierce fighting, with the Australians grinding their way forward over well-defended enemy positions. As had happened in July, their gains so worried Rommel that he again diverted his strongest units to stop them. Places such as Thompson’s Post, the Fig Orchard, the Blockhouse and the Saucer became an inferno of fire and steel as the Australians weathered the storm of bombs, shells and bullets.


The attack on Rommel’s lines started with over 800 artillery guns firing at the German lines. Legend has it that the noise was so great that the ears of the gunners bled. As the shells pounded the German lines, the infantry attacked. The engineers set about clearing mines. Their task was very dangerous as one mine was inter-connected with others via wires and if one mines was set off, many others could be. The stretch of cleared land for the tanks proved to be Montgomery’s Achilles heel. Just one non-moving tank could hold up all the tanks that were behind it. The ensuing traffic jams made the tanks easy targets for the German gunners using the feared 88 artillery gun. The plan to get the tanks through in one night failed. The infantry had also not got as far as Montgomery had planned. They had to dig in.

The second night of the attack was also unsuccessful. ‘Monty’ blamed his chief of tanks, Lumsden. He was given a simple ultimatum - move forward - or be replaced by someone more energetic. But the rate of attrition of the Allied forces was taking its toll.

However, Rommel and the Afrika Korps had also been suffering. He only had 300 tanks left to the Allies 900+. ‘Monty’ next planned to make a move to the Mediterranean. Australian units attacked the Germans by the Mediterranean and Rommel had to move his tanks north to cover this. The Australians took many casualties but their attack was to change the course of the battle.

Rommel became convinced that the main thrust of Montgomery’s attack would be near the Mediterranean and he moved a large amount of his Afrika Korps there. The Australians fought with ferocity - even Rommel commented on the "rivers of blood" in the region. However, the Australians had given Montgomery room to manoeuvre.

He launched ‘Operation Supercharge’. This was a British and New Zealander infantry attack made south of where the Australians were fighting. Rommel was taken by surprise. 123 tanks of the 9th Armoured Brigade attacked the German lines. But a sandstorm once again saved Rommel. Many of the tanks got lost and they were easy for the German 88 gunners to pick off. 75% of the 9th Brigade was lost. But the overwhelming number of Allied tanks meant that more arrived to help out and it was these tanks that tipped the balance. Rommel put tank against tank - but his men were hopelessly outnumbered.

By November 2nd 1942, Rommel knew that he was beaten. Hitler ordered the Afrika Korps to fight to the last but Rommel refused to carry out this order. On November 4th, Rommel started his retreat. 25,000 Germans and Italians had been killed or wounded in the battle and 13,000 Allied troops in the Eighth Army.
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Postby rath » Mon Oct 22, 2012 1:33 am

During 1940, 1941 and 1942, Commonwealth Nations fought a prolonged war in Libya and Egypt against the Germans and Italians. The British objective was to prevent the oilfields of the Middle East and the key communications link of the Suez Canal from falling into enemy hands. During those years the battle moved back and forth between Benghazi on the Libyan coast and the desert plain of northern Egypt. By mid-1942, General Irwin Rommel, the so-called 'Desert Fox', had driven the British deep into Egypt to a line approximately 120 kilometres west of Alexandria. Here, on a fifteen mile front, stretching from the Mediterranean to a desert rise known as the Ruweisat Ridge, was fought the climactic action of the desert campaigns - the Battle of El Alamein.

Along this front was ranged the British 8th Army under the command of General Bernard Montgomery composed predominantly of British, Indian, New Zealand, South African and Australian divisions amounting to 220,000 men, 1,100 tanks and 900 artillery pieces. The 8th Army's Australian component was the 9th Division AIF, under the command of Lieutenant General Leslie Morshead, the last Australian division remaining in North Africa after the withdrawal of the 6 and 7th Divisions back to the Pacific to fight Japan in early 1942. Facing the allied forces was a combined German and Italian force of 180,000 men (which included the famous German Afrika Korps). Rommel's army possessed 600 tanks and 500 guns.

Montgomery's initial battle plan had four divisions, including the 9th, advance on a broad front to force a wedge through the enemy minefields. Once formed, his tanks would breakthrough to the rear. The battle opened with a huge and well-remembered bombardment from the 8th Army's artillery at 9.40 pm on 23 October. When it lifted the infantry moved to the attack with the three brigades of the 9th Division taking on the defences in the northern sector closest to the sea. Despite some initial success, especially in the Australian sector, the infantry attack failed to produce the required mine-free corridor for the tanks. Montgomery now postponed his armoured sortie and turned the 9th Division northwards towards the sea in an effort to cut off a German division. This move would, he reasoned, bring down the German reserves in a counter-attack upon the Australians as the enemy sought to extricate his trapped unit.

On 25, 28 and 30 October, Moreshead's men mounted attack after attack. These assaults had the desired effect of pulling in significant German and Italian units but at significant cost to the Australians. The fighting here was fierce and protracted.

By 1 November, some Australian battalions had been 'ground down'. The 2/48th came out of an attack on 30-31 October with 41 men compared with the 686 with which it had started the battle a week earlier. The 2/24th was in little better shape with just 54 survivors. In a desperate night relief, Morshead brought out these exhausted and depleted units and replaced them with two battalions of the 24th Brigade. As the official Australian historian wrote:

[The survivors of the 2/24th and 2/48th Battalions] were taken back to the original front-line on the coast sector to sleep the night and muster next morning at their saddest roll calls ever. [Barton Maughan, Tobruk and El Alamein, Canberra, 1966, p.724]

While the Australians absorbed Rommel's attention, Montgomery developed 'Operation Supercharge' - a tank breakthrough attack to the south at Rommel's weakest point where the German and Italian held parts of his front joined. 'Supercharge' began at 1.05 am on 2 November and, after fierce fighting and heavy losses, the required breakthrough was achieved. At dawn on 4 November, the enemy line cracked and Rommel began a withdrawal back towards the Libyan border. The Battle of El Alamein was over. The Allied pursuit of their beaten enemies lasted until the final surrender of all German and Italian forces in North Africa on 12 May 1943.



By November 2nd 1942, Rommel knew that he was beaten. Hitler ordered the Afrika Korps to fight to the last but Rommel refused to carry out this order. On November 4th, Rommel started his retreat. 25,000 Germans and Italians had been killed or wounded in the battle and 13,000 Allied troops in the Eighth Army.

While the Australians absorbed Rommel's attention, Montgomery developed 'Operation Supercharge' - a tank breakthrough attack to the south at Rommel's weakest point where the German and Italian held parts of his front joined. 'Supercharge' began at 1.05 am on 2 November and, after fierce fighting and heavy losses, the required breakthrough was achieved. At dawn on 4 November, the enemy line cracked and Rommel began a withdrawal back towards the Libyan border. [b][u]The Battle of El Alamein was over. The Allied pursuit of their beaten enemies lasted until the final surrender of all German and Italian forces in North Africa on 12 May 1943



&

February 1943 the U.S Finally send 2000 U.S troops to Africa along with Patton & Eisenhower, ......

After 4 years of fighting, by over 220,000 Allied soldiers ..... with Germany in retreat & Rommel on the verge of surrender.

On the 12 May 1943, Nazi's surrender to the Allie, & Rommel's defeated.



& this is the thanks we get.

Check out this U.S propaganda show will ya.

Watch on youtube.com
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Postby greeney2 » Mon Oct 22, 2012 2:43 pm

rath wrote:[b]

February 1943 the U.S Finally send 2000 U.S troops to Africa along with Patton & Eisenhower, ......


& this is the thanks we get.

Check out this U.S propaganda show will ya.



Are you suggesting the USA "finally" only gave 2000 US troops total for this campaign, and that Patton and Eisenhower, just showed up with them? IKE was the Supreme Allied Commander of all Allied troops, and all allied troops were under Eisenhower. I think you need to look at the entire campaigns History.
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Postby rath » Mon Oct 22, 2012 11:04 pm

greeney2 wrote:Are you suggesting the USA finally only gave 2000 US troops total for this campaign?


Here we Go, your trying to derail my thread with pro U.S propaganda again.

I have to say, I find how Americans keep trying to claim other nations war history as their own, & keep trying to re-right the history books, portraying the USA as playing the leading role in every battle of every war. As not only offense to me personally ..... But i find it insulting to all the war dead who fought & died to keep the world safe & free.

A freedom that America would not have today, if not for the sacrifice of all those who died in both world wars for the countless years the wars raged, while the USA refused to get involved,until the last days of the wars.

Only to deny' your true history & lack of involvement. History tells the true story .... without all the U.S lies & propaganda.

greeney2 wrote:Are you suggesting the USA finally only gave 2000 US troops total for this campaign?


No ..... i am only pointing out that the allies ( excluding the U.S.A ) fought the North African Campaign, for over four years ... almost 5 years. with almost 300,000 personal stationed there in the four years of the North African Campaign.

While the USA first sent just 2000 troops to fight in the North African Campaign, just 10 weeks before Rommel's forces surrounded to Australian & British forces in Tunisia.

After Rommel's surrender To Australian & British forces in Tunisa, the USA increased its deployment to around 10 thousand man to secure the site of the battle of Kasserine, one of ONLY 2 U.S battle in the North African Campaign, of WW2. & both the battles of Bizerte & Kasserine, where such tiny tiny battles, used to train the U.S troops & get them up to speed with the rest of the Allied forces.


The Germans had already lost the North African Campaign when Patton, Eisenhower, & US troops turned up 10 weeks before the North African Campaign ended.

Once again ( just like in the European theater of war ) the USA turned up after all the work was done.


Where do you get your pro U.S propaganda from Greeney2.

read & research the real facts for once mate.

greeney2 wrote:IKE was the supreme Allied Commander of the entire North African Campaign, and all allied troops were under Eisenhower. IKE was leader of British troops, and all their subordinate troops like Australia, New Zealand, India under British command.


IKE was the supreme Allied Commander of the entire North African Campaign :lol: :lol: :lol:

for the last few weeks of the war because the REAL COMMANDERS who ran the war for 4 years, didn't want to wast time with his petty behavior.

& put it in perspective ........ Eisenhower was the supreme Allied Commander of the entire North African Campaign.

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :oops: :oops: :oops: :oops:

Yhe ...... & so was Douglas MacArthur too remember .... yet they both handed over command of their forces to Australian & British Commanders ........ so their tittle was just a PR deal to shut them up.


How can you have Two supreme Commander. :lol: :lol: :lol:
North African Campaign timeline

1940

10 June: The Kingdom of Italy declares war upon France and the United Kingdom
14 June: British and Australian force cross from Egypt into Libya and capture Fort Capuzzo

16 June: The first tank battle of the North African Campaign takes place, the "Battle of Girba"
13 September: Italian forces invade Egypt from Libya
16 September: Italian forces establish front east of Sidi Barrani
9 December: British and Indian forces launch Operation Compass with the Battle of Marmarica (Battle of the camps)
9 December: Indian forces capture Nibeiwa with cover from British artillery
9 December: British tanks and Indian troops overrun Tummar West followed by Tummar East
10 December: Indian forces capture Sidi Barrani with support from British artillery
11 December: British armoured forces arrived in Sofafi, but Libyan and Italian divisions had escaped
16 December: Sollum captured by Allies


1941

5 January: Bardia captured by British and Australian force
22 January: Tobruk captured by Australian force
30 January: Australians capture Derna, Libya
5 February: Beda Fomm captured by British
6 February;
Fall of Benghazi to the Western Desert Force.
Lieutenant-General Erwin Rommel is appointed commander of Afrika Korps.
7 February: what remains of the Italian Tenth Army surrenders
9 February: Churchill orders halt to British and Australian advance at El Agheila to allow withdrawal of troops to defend Greece
14 February: First units of the Afrika Korps under Erwin Rommel start to arrive in Libya during Operation Sonnenblume
24 March: Allied forces at El Agheila defeated; Erwin Rommel starts his advance
4 April: Australian & British forces withdraw from Benghazi; Benghazi captured by Axis
6 April: British 3rd Armored Brigade is captured in Derna
8 April: British, Indian and Australian forces captured at Mechili
10 April: Siege of Tobruk begins with Australian, British and Indian forces defending
15 April: British forces are pushed back to Sollum on Egyptian border with Libya
30 April: Australian forces lose a small part of their positions in Tobruk during the Battle of Salient, roughly a 6th of Tobruk is now held by Germans
3 May: Australian forces counter attack in Tobruk unsuccessfully
15 May: British troops launch Operation Brevity to gain more territory from which to launch Operation Battleaxe later in the year
16 May: Operation Brevity called off. Allied forces fall back onto the Halfaya Pass, captured the previous day
26 May: German forces launch Operation Skorpion and move up to Halfaya Pass
27 May: German forces recapture Halfaya Pass; British troops are forced to withdraw
15 June: British and Indian troops launch unsuccessful Operation Battleaxe
5 July: Auchinleck replaces Wavell as C-in-C Middle East Command
15 August: German Panzer Group Afrika activated with Rommel in Command
1 October: 5th Light Division redesignated 21st Panzer Division
18 November: Auchinleck's offensive (Operation Crusader) begins with British, Indian, South African and New Zealander forces
21 November: British armored division defeated at Sidi Rezegh and withdraws
22 November;
New Zealand forces attack Bir Ghirba but are unsuccessful
Indian forces capture Sidi Omar
23 November: New Zealand forces capitalize on Indian advances to wreck Afrika Korps HQ at Bir el Chleta
23 November:
Rommel launches Panzer attacks on the British XXX Corps, but face resistance from SA, NZ and British forces
British and NZ forces withdraw towards Bir el Gubi
25 November:
Panzer attack on Indian forces at Sidi Omar is repulsed
In the second attack in the evening, Indian forces destroy the 5th Panzer Division
26 November: Ritchie replaces Cunningham as commander Eighth Army
27 November: New Zealand troops at Sidi Azeiz defeated by overwhelming advance of Panzers and German infantry
28 November: 15th Panzer despite being outnumbered 2:1 force British tanks to retreat exposing the New Zealand forces at Ed Duda on the Tobruk by-pass
1 December: New Zealand troops in Sidi Rezegh suffer heavy casualties by Panzers
3 December:
German infantry suffers heavy defeat at the hand of New Zealand forces on the Bardia road near Menastir
German forces suffer losses against Indian forces and forced to withdraw at Capuzzo (Trigh Capuzzo)
4 December:
NZ forces repulse German attack on Ed Duda
Indian forces face attrition in an uphill attempt to capture Point 174 against entrenched Italian forces without artillery support
13 December;
8th Army attacks Gazala line
NZ forces stopped at Alem Hamza
Indian forces take Point 204
Indian infantry face Afrika Korps and against heavy odds destroy 15 of 39 Panzers
14 December: Indian troops repel repeated Panzer attacks on Point 204
15 December: German advance overruns British forces en route to Point 204, but Indian forces at Point 204 hold on
16 December: Rommel facing reduced Panzer numbers orders withdrawal from the Gazala line
24 December: British forces capture Benghazi
25 December: Agedabia reached by the Allies
27 December: Rommel inflicts heavy damage on British armour who have to withdraw allowing Rommel to fall back to El Agheila
31 December: Front lines return to El Agheila

1942

21 January;
Rommel's second offensive begins
A lone He 111 of the Sonderkommando Blaich successfully bombs the Fort Lamy air field [6]
23 January: Agedabia captured by Axis forces
29 January: Benghazi captured by Axis forces
4 February: Front line established between Gazala and Bir Hakeim
26 May: Axis forces assault the Gazala line, the Battle of Gazala and Battle of Bir Hakeim begins
11 June: Axis forces begin offensive from "the Cauldron" position
13 June: "Black Sunday". Axis inflicts heavy defeat on British armoured divisions
21 June: Tobruk captured by Axis forces
28 June: Mersa Matruh, Egypt, falls to Rommel.
30 June: Axis forces reach El Alamein and attack the Allied defences, the First Battle of El Alamein begins
4 July: First Battle of El Alamein continues as Axis digs in and Eighth Army launch series of attacks
31 July: Auchinleck calls off offensive activities to allow Eighth Army to regroup and resupply
13 August: Alexander and Montgomery take command respectively of Middle East Command and Eighth Army
30 August: Rommel launches unsuccessful Battle of Alam el Halfa
23 October: Montgomery launches Operation Lightfoot starting the Second Battle of El Alamein
5 November: Axis lines at El Alamein broken
8 November: Operation Torch is launched under the command of General Eisenhower, Allied forces land in Morocco and Algeria.
9 November: Sidi Barani captured by Eighth Army
13 November: Tobruk captured by Australian 9th Division
15 November: British forces capture Derna in Libya.
17 November: First Army (Operation Torch's Eastern Task Force) and Axis meet at Djebel Abiod in Tunisia
20 November: Benghazi captured by allied forces
27 November: First Army advance halted between Terbourba and Djedeida, 12 miles from Tunis, by Axis counterattack
10 December: First Army front line pushed back to defensive positions east of Medjez el Bab
22 December: First Army starts three day offensive towards Tebourba which fails
25 December: Sirte captured by allied forces


1943

23 January: Tripoli captured by allied forces
30 January: Axis forces capture Faïd pass in central Tunisia
4 February: Axis forces in Libya retreat to Tunisian border south of the Mareth Line
14 February: Axis advance from Faïd to launch Battle of Sidi Bou Zid and enter Sbeitla two days later
19 February: Battle of Kasserine Pass launched by Axis forces
19 February: U.S forces join North African Campaign at the Battle of Kasserine
6 March: Axis launch Operation Capri against Eighth Army at Medenine but lose 55 tanks
16 March: Battle of Mareth begins
19 March: Eighth Army launches Operation Pugilist
23 March: U.S. II Corps emerge from Kasserine to match the Axis at Battle of El Guettar. Battle of Mareth ends.[7]
26 March: Eighth Army launch Operation Supercharge II outflanking and making the Axis position at Mareth untenable. Battle of Tebaga Gap takes place.
6 April: Right wing of First Army links with Eighth Army. Battle of Wadi Akarit takes place.
22 April: Allied forces launch Operation Vulcan
6 May: Allied forces launch Operation Strike
7 May: Allied forces enter Tunis, Americans enter Bizerte
13 May: Axis Powers surrender in Tunisia, to Australian, & British forces.



Rommel's retreat
On 3 November 1942 Montgomery found it impossible to renew his attack, and he had to wait for more reinforcements to be brought up. This lull was what Rommel needed for his withdrawal, which had been planned since 29 October, when he had determined the situation hopeless. At halfway, however, Rommel received the infamous "victory or death" stand-fast order from Hitler. Although this order demanded the impossible and virtually ensured the destruction of Panzer Army Africa, Rommel could not bring himself to disobey a direct order from his Führer. The Axis forces held on desperately.

On 4 November Allied forces renewed the attack with fresh forces, and with almost 500 tanks against the 20 or so remaining to Rommel. By midday the Italian XX Motorized Corps was surrounded, and several hours later was completely destroyed. This left a 20 km gap in Rommel's line, with Allied armoured and motorized units pouring through, threatening the entire Panzer Army Africa with encirclement. At this point Rommel could no longer uphold the no-retreat order and ordered a general retreat. Early on 5 November he received authorization by Hitler to withdraw, 12 hours after his decision to do so—but it was far too late, with only remnants of his army streaming westward. Most of his unmotorized forces (the bulk of the army) were caught.

Part of the Panzer Army Africa escaped from El Alamein, but this remnant took heavy losses from constant air attacks. Despite urgings from Hitler and Mussolini, the Panzer Army did not turn to fight, except for brief holding actions, but withdrew under Allied pressure all the way to Tunisia. However, the retreat was conducted most skillfully, employing scorched earth tactics and leaving behind booby traps, making the task of the pursuers very difficult. The Allied forces had great numerical superiority and air supremacy, while most of Rommel's remaining divisions were reduced to combat groups.

End of Africa campaigns

Having reached Tunisia, Rommel launched an attack against the recently arrived U.S. II Corps which was threatening to cut his lines of supply north to Tunis. Rommel inflicted a sharp defeat on the American forces at the Kasserine Pass in February.

Rommel immediately turned back against the British forces, occupying the Mareth Line (old French defences on the Libyan border). But Rommel could only delay the inevitable. At the end of January 1943, the Italian General Giovanni Messe had been appointed the new commander of Rommel's Panzer Army Africa while Rommel had been at Kasserine, which was renamed the Italo-German Panzer Army (in recognition of the fact that it consisted of one German and three Italian corps). Though Messe replaced Rommel, he diplomatically deferred to him, and the two coexisted in what was theoretically the same command. On 23 February Armeegruppe Afrika was created with Rommel in command. It included the Italo-German Panzer Army under Messe (renamed 1st Italian Army) and the German 5th Panzer Army in the north of Tunisia under General Hans-Jürgen von Arnim.

The last Rommel offensive in North Africa was on 6 March 1943, when he attacked the Australian, New Zealand & British, Eighth Army at the Battle of Medenine. The attack was made with 10th, 15th, and 21st Panzer Divisions. Warned by Ultra intercepts, Montgomery deployed large numbers of anti-tank guns in the path of the offensive. After losing 52 tanks, Rommel called off the assault. & on the 13 May: Rommel & The Axis Powers surrender in Tunisia.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_ ... erine_Pass
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Postby greeney2 » Mon Oct 22, 2012 11:24 pm

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Postby rath » Tue Oct 23, 2012 4:44 am

greeney2 wrote:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dwight_D._Eisenhower



:roll: :roll: :roll:

Oh Greeny2 ... Once again you have your history & your wars/Battles mix up.

Not to mention your pro U.S Propaganda.

Dwight Eisenhower was the supreme Allied Commander of the entire North African Campaign. :roll:

Yet

All Allie ground forces, in Africa & the Asia / Pacific, were placed under the command of Australian General Blamey.

Who had far far more experience then Eisenhower, hence why he ran all the ground forces.

News flash .....

There was more then one single commander. :oops: :oops: :oops: seriously the u.s education system. (* FAIL )

FROM YOUR OWN LINK ...

Dwight Eisenhower was the Supreme Headquarters Allied Expeditionary Force.

Supreme Headquarters Allied Expeditionary Force (SHAEF; play /ˈʃeɪf/ SHAYF), was the headquarters of the Commander of Allied forces in north west Europe, from late 1943 until the end of World War II. U.S. General Dwight D. Eisenhower was in command of SHAEF throughout its existence. The position itself shares a common lineage with Supreme Allied Commander Europe and Atlantic, but they are different titles.
Contents



History during the Second World War

Eisenhower transferred from command of the Mediterranean Theater of Operations to command SHAEF, which was formed in Camp Griffiss, Bushy Park, Teddington, London, from December 1943; an adjacent street named Shaef Way remains to this day. Its staff took the outline plan for Operation Overlord created by Lieutenant General Sir Frederick E. Morgan, COSSAC (Chief of Staff to the Supreme Commander Allied Forces), and Major General Ray Barker.[1] Morgan, who had been appointed chief of staff to the Supreme Allied Commander (designate) in mid-March 1943 began planning for the invasion of Europe before Eisenhower's appointment.[2] and moulded it into the final version, which was executed on 6 June 1944. That process was shaped by Eisenhower and the land forces commander for the initial part of the invasion, General Sir Bernard Law Montgomery.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frederick_E._Morgan

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bernard_Law_Montgomery


Supreme Allied Commander is the title held by the most senior commander within certain multinational military alliances. It originated as a term used by the Western Allies during World War II, and is currently used only within NATO. Dwight Eisenhower served as Supreme Commander Allied Expeditionary Force (SCAEF) for the Battle of Normandy during World War II.

The current commander of NATO's Allied Cand South East Asia (SACSEA) and Supreme Commander Allied Expeditionary Force (SCAEF) in northwest Europe. The Allied Mediterranean theatre's Commander-in-Chief, Allied Force, the American Commander-in-Chief South West Pacific and Commander-in-Chief Pacific Ocean Areas also functioned as de facto supreme commanders.

These commanders reported to the Combined Chiefs of Staff, although in the case of the American commanders in the Pacific and SACSEA, the relevant national command authorities of the Joint Chiefs of Staff or the Chiefs of Staff Committee had responsibility of the main conduct of the war in the theatre of operations.

General of the Army Dwight Eisenhower served successively as the Allied Mediterranean theatre's Commander in Chief, Allied Force and then as European theatre's Supreme Commander Allied Expeditionary Force (SCAEF). Eisenhower was succeeded as Commander in Chief, Allied Force by Field Marshal Henry Maitland Wilson who was in turn succeeded by Field Marshal Harold Alexander who continued in charge of allied forces until the end of the war. The post of Supreme Commander South East Asia Command (SACSEA) was occupied throughout most of its existence by Admiral Lord Louis Mountbatten.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henry_Maitland_Wilson

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Louis_Mountbatten
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Postby rath » Tue Oct 23, 2012 5:04 am

Again ...... From your own link Greeney2.

The Mediterranean Theater of Operations, United States Army (MTO USA) was originally called North African Theater of Operations (NATO) and is an American term for the conflict that took place between the Allies and Axis Powers in North Africa and Italy during World War II. US operations in the theater began with of the Allied Expeditionary Force, which landed on the beaches of northwest Africa on November 8, 1942


US operations in the theater began with of the Allied Expeditionary Force, which landed on the beaches of northwest Africa on November 8, 1942.

A)

Northwest Africa on November 8, 1942. Not in the north East Africa ... or in the North of Africa... Not even in the South of Africa.

Just the North east of Africa.

B)

US operations in the theater began on the beaches of northwest Africa on November 8, 1942.


The North African Campaign started in 1940.

& ended may 1943, with Rommel's surrender on 13 May 1943 at Tunisia, to Australian, & British forces.


C)

US operations in the theater began with of the Allied Expeditionary Force, which landed on the beaches of northwest Africa on November 8, 1942.

Rommel's surrender on 13 May 1943 at Tunisia, to Australian, & British forces because the Australian & British forces where pushing the Axis forces lead by Rommel back towards Tunisia which Australia & British forces had already captured from the Axis forces. & was now occupied by the US troops who had just arrived on November 8, 1942.


& with that, the war moved to Europe & the western front & such.

But we have already talked about that in other threads. :D
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Postby rath » Tue Oct 23, 2012 5:21 am

Remember Greeney2 ....... the North African Campaign was a different battle to the European fight.

The USA had almost nothing to do with the 4 & a half years of fighting in the North African Campaign.

& it is the North African Campaign, & the battle's of El Alamein, that this topic is about.

Yes Eisenhower was supreme Commander of allied forces ....... ( as you like to point out ) But then so what ... many many others also held that title, generals from Britain, From Australia & the USA.
( some even held the supreme commander title at the same time as others.)

Just get a grip of history man.

The USA had just about nothing to do with the North African Campaign of ww2 ..

It was not until the war in Europe that the USA & Eisenhower, steeped up & took control of command in Europe
( however late )

It was politics & numbers ...... provisions of labor, & logistics.
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Postby rath » Tue Oct 23, 2012 5:29 am

Second World War, 1939–45

over a million + Australians, both men and women, served in the Second World War.

Australia fought in campaigns against Germany and Italy in Europe, the Mediterranean and North Africa, as well as against Japan in south-east Asia and other parts of the Pacific, such as Singapore, Thailand, Philippines, Malaya.

Greece, Crete and Lebanon & Syria

Tunisia, Sicily and Italy.

Netherlands East Indies and Rabaul
The Australian mainland came under direct attack for the first time, as Japanese aircraft bombed towns in north-west Australia and Japanese midget submarines attacked Sydney Harbour.

The Royal Australian Navy (RAN) participated in operations against Italy after its entry into the war in June 1940. A few Australians flew in the Battle of Britain in August and September, but the Australian army was not engaged in combat until 1941, when the 6th, 7th, and 9th Divisions joined Allied operations in the Mediterranean and North Africa.


Following early successes against Italian forces, the Australians suffered defeat with the Allies at the hands of the Germans in Greece, Crete, and North Africa.

In June and July 1941 Australians participated in the successful invasion of Syria, a mandate of France and the Vichy government.
Up to 14,000 Australians held out against repeated German attacks in the Libyan port of Tobruk, where they were besieged between April and August 1941.

After being relieved at Tobruk, the 6th and 7th Divisions departed from the Mediterranean theatre for the war against Japan. The 9th Division remained to play an important role in the Allied victory at El Alamein in October 1942 before it also left for the Pacific.

Japan entered the war in December 1941 and swiftly achieved a series of victories, resulting in the occupation of most of south-east Asia and large areas of the Pacific by the end of March 1942. Singapore fell in February, with the loss of an entire Australian division. After the bombing of Darwin that same month, all RAN ships in the Mediterranean theatre, as well as the 6th and 7th Divisions, returned to defend Australia. In response to the heightened threat, the Australian government also expanded the army and air force and called for an overhaul of economic, domestic, and industrial policies to give the government special authority to mount a total war effort at home.

In March 1942, after the defeat of the Netherlands East Indies, Japan's southward advance began to lose strength, easing fears of an imminent invasion of Australia. Further relief came when the first AIF veterans of the Mediterranean campaigns began to come home, and when the United States assumed responsibility for the country's defence, providing reinforcements and equipment. The threat of invasion receded further as the Allies won a series of decisive battles: in the Coral Sea, at Midway, on Imita Ridge and the Kokoda Trail, and at Milne Bay and Buna.

Further Allied victories against the Japanese followed in 1943. Australian troops were mainly engaged in land battles in New Guinea, the defeat of the Japanese at Wau, and clearing Japanese soldiers from the Huon peninsula. This was Australia's largest and most complex offensive of the war and was not completed until April 1944. The Australian army also began a new series of campaigns in 1944 against isolated Japanese garrisons stretching from Borneo to Bougainville, involving more Australian troops than at any other time in the war. The first of these campaigns was fought on Bougainville and New Britain, and at Aitape, New Guinea. The final series of campaigns were fought in Borneo in 1945. How necessary these final campaigns were for Allied victory remains the subject of continuing debate. Australian troops were still fighting in Borneo when the war ended in August 1945.

While Australia's major effort from 1942 onwards was directed at defeating Japan, thousands of Australians continued to serve with the RAAF in Europe and the Middle East. Athough more Australian airmen fought against the Japanese, losses among those flying against Germany were far higher. Australians were particularly prominent in Bomber Command's offensive against occupied Europe. Some 3,500 Australians were killed in this campaign, making it the costliest of the war.

Over 30,000 Australian servicemen were taken prisoner in the Second World War and 39,000 gave their lives. Two-thirds of those taken prisoner were captured by the Japanese during their advance through south-east Asia in the first weeks of 1942. While those who became prisoners of the Germans had a strong chance of returning home at the end of the war, 36 per cent of prisoners of the Japanese died in captivity.

Nurses had gone overseas with the AIF in 1940. However, during the early years of the war women were generally unable to make a significant contribution to the war effort in any official capacity. Labour shortages forced the government to allow women to take a more active role in war work and, in February 1941, the RAAF received cabinet approval to establish the Women's Auxiliary Australian Air Force (WAAAF). At the same time, the navy also began employing female telegraphists, a breakthrough that eventually led to the establishment of the Women's Royal Australian Naval Service (WRANS) in 1942. The Australian Women's Army Service (AWAS) was established in October 1941, with the aim of releasing men from certain military duties in base units in Australia for assignment with fighting units overseas. Outside the armed services, the Women's Land Army (WLA) was established to encourage women to work in rural industries. Other women in urban areas took up employment in industries, such as munitions production.

http://www.ww2australia.gov.au/
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Postby rath » Tue Oct 23, 2012 5:43 am

Rath wrote:Remember Greeney2 ....... the North African Campaign was a different battle to the European fight.


Rath wrote:It was not until the war in Europe that the USA & Eisenhower, steeped up & took control of command in Europe.

It was politics & numbers ...... provisions of labor, & logistics.


By the Time Europe came around in ww2 ..... facts were facts, Australia could not keep playing a lead roll if the USA, who had just entered the war. Was going to bring weapons, ships plans & personnel to the battle.

Eisenhower took over control, & Australian Generals kept fighting the war that Australia had been involved in from the Beginning While The British & Americans, divided up Command amongst themselves.

It was in Europe & not the North African Campaign where Eisenhower really ran the war & became supreme Commander of allied forces.

In Western Europe.

But remember .... the war was far from over at this stage & there was much fighting to be done, by all nations of the Allied forces.

& the USA by no means did it all by themselves.
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