The Black Vault

DIss0n80r wrote:Good post.

Hold that thought.

greeney2 wrote:

rath wrote:

greeney2 wrote:I actually take my hat off to Austrailia becasue they do seem to have a pretty stable economy. I was actually very suprized to see the post about them having a job fair of some sort to get people with skilled trades to come work in Austrailia. I'll also be honest, I did not know Austrailia actually has had terrorist attacks.

That said, Austrailia is at least the size of Continental USA, but you have only 10% of our population. I'm interesed to know how out of control property and housing is in Austrailia, how affordable is a home. I know my Brother in Laws friends in Austrailia were Policemen, and thier pay was pretty dismal from what he told him. YOu also do not have the kinds of border problems we have, and you definalty do not have 10 Million illegals roaming around, working without taxes, and still are able to enroll there kids in our schools and use the county hospitals. We also allow our companies to outsourse manufacturing out of this country, and do not insist on "Balanced Trade". We let foriegn countries buy and set up factories inside this country, buy up the office buildings, medical buildings, parking lots, let everybody come into this country, and worst of all our citizens see no value in buying american made products, if they can save 2 cents.

I seriously doubt with all the crap you talk about the USA, and our elections, if you even have any idea how and why they have the electorial college system, or that you could probalby not even explain it. Most people think the Constitution of only the Bill of Rights, its all explained in the Constitution.

Where to start, .... ill do this piece by piece i guess as there is so much to respond to.


ill start with this.

greeney2 wrote:I seriously doubt with all the crap you talk about the USA, and our elections, if you even have any idea how and why they have the electorial college system, or that you could probalby not even explain it. Most people think the Constitution of only the Bill of Rights, its all explained in the Constitution.

Your right Greeney2, I don't know much about the U.S electoral system, except like the rest of the free world it is based on the Australian electoral system. ( I believe my old post on this subject is still in the politics thread )

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Secret_ballot


Other then the fact The US system of government was based on Australia's, i could not tell you much as the us system is some much more complicated now that it ever needed to be ( bastardized for political gain ).

What you did not understand about my statement if you read it closer, is you do not understand our electorial college system, which is defined in the Constitution, and I doubt it Austrailia has this at all. We now have 50 states, but started with 13 states. The Electorial College system is designed to give all states equal rights in the election of the President. Otherwise by total popular vote, the most populous States would always sway the elections, such as New York, Florida, and California, all have 30-40M people. States like Montana, New Mexico, Wyoming have less than 1M people.

Fact 2.




Universal suffrage
Women's suffrage!

South Australia was one of the first jurisdictions in the world to grant women suffrage when it allowed women to vote and to stand for Parliament in 1894. The passage of the Commonwealth Franchise Act gave women the right to vote at the federal level in 1902. The dates for the other states of Australia are summarised below.

Woman's Right to Vote & Right to stand for Parliament

South Australia 1894 1894
Western Australia 1899 1920
Australia (Commonwealth) 1902 1902
New South Wales 1902 1918
Tasmania 1903 1921
Queensland 1905 1915
Victoria 1908 1923

Woman suffrage in the United States was achieved gradually, at state and local levels, during the 19th Century and early 20th Century, culminating in 1920 with the passage of the Nineteenth Amendment to the United States Constitution, which provided: "The right of citizens of the United States to vote shall not be denied or abridged by the United States or by any state on account of sex."

The secret ballot is a voting method in which a voter's choices in an election or a referendum are confidential. The key aim is to ensure the voter records a sincere choice by forestalling attempts to influence the voter by intimidation or bribery.

The system is one means of achieving the goal of political privacy. Secret ballots are suitable for many different voting systems.

The most basic form may be blank pieces of paper, upon which each voter writes only their choice. Without revealing their vote to anyone, the voters place the ballots into a sealed box, which is emptied later for counting.

One of the most common forms in the modern world provides for pre-printed ballot papers with the name of the candidates or questions and respective checkboxes. Provisions are made at the polling place for the voter to record their preferences in secret. The ballots are specifically designed to eliminate bias and to prevent anyone from linking voter to ballot.


This system is also known as the Australian ballot, because it originated in Australia during the 1850s. In the United States, it is also known as the Massachusetts ballot since Massachusetts was the first U.S. state to adopt the Australian secret ballot system.

A History of the Australian Ballot System in the United States

The purpose of this dissertation is to trace the introduction and development of the Australian ballot system in the United States of America.

The first portion of the thesis discusses the demand for reform which grew out of the evils of the unofficial ballot. The unofficial ballot developed from the use of voting papers by certain American colonies, in particular New England; and it gradually superseded the viva voce method. This plan proved very defective, and in the period of corruption following the Civil War it was made the instrument of great abuse.

This led to the introduction of the Australian system, which provided a secret ballot, furnished by the state and supplied to the electors on the day of election within the polling-place, and marked in secret by the electors. The second portion of the thesis treats in detail the development and present status of the Australian ballot in the United States. The third portion of the thesis discusses the attitude which the courts have taken toward the secret ballot. In Appendix A is printed the text of the original South Australian Ballot Act, the text of which is not in print in any of the large libraries of the United States.

This dissertation takes up a study of the ballots used in the election of public officers only. Primary ballots are not included.

The material used has been primarily the session laws, digests, and codes of the states, and the decisions of the courts, although newspapers and periodicals and the debates of constitutional conventions were also employed. A bibliography covering the field is given in Appendix B.

The writer wishes to acknowledge the assistance given by Professor Charles E. Merriam and Professor Ernst Freund of the Department of Political Science at the University of Chicago, and by Dean John H. Wigmore of Northwestern University Law School.


Chapter II: The Origin of the Australian Ballot System and its Introduction into the United States

1. The Origin of the Australian Ballot
2. Its Introduction into the United States
3. The Arguments For and Against the Australian Ballot
Chapter III: The Development of the Australian Ballot in the United States

Introductory
1. The Printing and Distribution of the Ballots
2. The Procedure for Placing the Names of Candidates on the Ballot
3. Provisions for Publicity and Instruction of Voters
4. The Arrangement of the Polling-Place
Chapter IV: The Form of the Ballot

1. The Different Types of Ballots in the United States
2. The Office-Group versus the Party-Column Ballot
3. Present Status of the Form of the Ballot
Chapter V: The Manner of Voting; Penal Sanctions

1. Obtaining the Ballot
2. Marking the Ballots
3. Assisting the Voters
4. Penal Sanctions
Chapter VI: The Attitude of the Courts toward the Australian Ballot

1. The Constitutionality of the Australian Ballot
2. The Policy of the Courts in Interpreting the Ballot Laws
Chahttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Secret_ballotpter" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; VII: Summary and Conclusion

Appendix A

The Text of the Original Australian Ballot Act

http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/top ... ian-ballot

Australian ballot, also called secret ballot, the system of voting in which voters mark their choices in privacy on uniform ballots printed and distributed by the government or designate their choices by some other secret means. Victoria and South Australia were the first states to introduce secrecy of the ballot (1856), and for that reason the secret ballot is referred to as the Australian ballot. The system spread to Europe and the United States to meet the growing public and parliamentary demand for protection of voters. The means for securing secrecy vary considerably.

In the United States the practice became known as the "Australian ballot", defined as having four parts:
1.an official ballot being printed at public expense,
2.on which the names of the nominated candidates of all parties and all proposals appear,
3.being distributed only at the polling place and
4.being marked in secret.

In the United States, most states had moved to secret ballots soon after the presidential election of 1884. However, Kentucky was the last state to do so in 1891, when it quit using the oral ballot. Therefore, the first President of the United States elected completely under the Australian ballot was president Grover Cleveland in 1892.

The first city to start using Australian ballot in the United States was Louisville, Kentucky. However, the first state to adopt Australian ballot was Massachusetts.


Voting by Australian ballot usually takes place in a prescribed manner. The voting boxes are required to be of certain dimensions and closed, the only aperture being a small slit at the top. These containers are examined before the poll begins and cannot be opened until the count begins. The voter marks a ballot, often while standing in a special booth, and (after the voter’s right to vote has been verified) the vote is placed inside the container.

In Great Britain the secret ballot was finally introduced for all parliamentary and municipal elections by the Ballot Act of 1872. In the United States, the Australian ballot system was extensively adopted after the presidential election of 1884.

Louis-Napoléon Bonaparte attempted to abolish the secret ballot for the 1851 plebiscite with an electoral decree requesting electors to write down "yes" or "no" (in French: "oui" or "non") under the eyes of everyone. But he faced a strong opposition and finally changed his mind, allowing secret ballot to take place

at1with0 wrote:Are they connected to the Deciders?

Did you mean the Deiciders?

The Deiciders would be so insulted that you asked if they were the Deciders!