The Black Vault

An analogy...

Suppose some one or some thing is making a watch.
At what point does that watch start existing?

When it matches the definition of "watch".

What if I were to remove the arms on a watch or turn off the display, yet internally it is still keeping time. Is it still a watch?

at1with0 wrote:An analogy...

Suppose some one or some thing is making a watch.
At what point does that watch start existing?

When he starts making it. If you asked him "What are you making'? He would say "A watch", unless he said "its none of your business", but it would still be a watch.

A lot of things never get off a drawing board, and are only concepts, but they still start to exist in the concept stage. Our military is full of them.

Interesting..

Yes, it still is keeping time, its just not telling us what time it is, with the hands removed. If I made a devise to wear on my wrist, and printed on the face was "now", is that also a watch? The time will always be correct.

So the definition of watch is important, clearly.

If we were talking about "when does a human come into existence," are we going to go with as soon as human DNA is present?

If you ask when does a human exist, its conception, just like the watch, but much more fun to build.

Does it have unalienable human rights at conception then?

at1with0 wrote:Does it have unalienable human rights at conception then?

One would hope so, but it is clearly not the case. That is, if you are talking about a baby born in the US and its Constitutional rights.

If you are talking bigger picture, absolutely it has unalienable, "God-given" rights at conception, which is why Christians, Jews, Muslims, and others believe abortion at any stage or prengancy is the equivalent of infanticide or, murder.