The Black Vault Message Forums

Discover the Truth!        

The War on Terrorism & Homeland Security

Marine who badmouthed Obama being court martialed

Discuss the War on Terrorism, Homeland Security, Iraq, Afghanistan, North Korea and other global terrorist concerns.

Postby The_Joker » Tue Apr 17, 2012 11:37 am

Well it does sound promising I will grant you that but in the latest incident the statements seem not to have been retracted, therefore the circumstances are very different and I fear so will the penalty that will be imposed.

I am still of the belief that some time will indeed be served at the very least with demotion and depending on how inflammatory the comments I still think DD may still be an option.

Given the ever changing political landscape that seems to be taking place in the US, such dissension in the ranks of the military is becoming less and less tolerated.

At some point they will make an example of someone, whether or not it is going to be this particular Marine or not is yet to be seen.

Thanks for keeping me up to speed.

I can tell you that there are those in the Australian Military who have been made an example of and such things are not generally known in the public domain. As it is usually kept quiet here.
Remember remember the fifth of November
Gunpowder, treason and plot.
I see no reason why gunpowder, treason
Should ever be forgot...
User avatar
The_Joker
 
Posts: 693
Joined: Fri Jul 30, 2010 6:22 pm

Postby greeney2 » Tue Apr 17, 2012 10:39 pm

Appartently, he was court martialed in what would be a special court martial, using 3 judges. He really did more than just bad mouth Obama about political issues, he openly refused to Obey the President, and said really was over the top on his statement. I had herd it was to be some sort of administrative repremand, but that was obviously wrong. I'll change my opinion totally now and his actions were something that he should recieve most likly a Bad Conduct Discharge, maybe not dishonorable.

I was wrong on this one Joker.


Sgt. Gary Stein Loses Bid For A Restraining Order To Stop His Discharge Proceedings

The Tea Party Marine and Temecula resident faces a discharge from the military for criticizing the president.

April 13, 2012
Updated 12:38 p.m. Friday

A Camp Pendleton Marine facing expulsion from the military for posting comments critical of President Barack Obama on Facebook lost his bid today for a restraining order to stop the discharge proceedings.

Last week, a three-member military panel unanimously recommended that Sgt. Gary Stein, 26, be kicked out of the Marine Corps with an "other-than- honorable" discharge.

Stein went to federal court in hopes of obtaining a preliminary injunction to prevent his discharge, but U.S. District Judge Marilyn Huff denied the request.

Attorneys said the Administrative Separation Board hearing was unfair and a violation of the First Amendment.

"They're processing him through as fast as they can," said Gary Kreep, one of Stein's attorneys. "They want to get rid of him."

Stein's lawyers said the panel refused to allow testimony from three experts in military law who would have testified on Stein's behalf.

But Huff said the military has a "process" to take care of such matters, saying the federal court would not get involved.

Stein was put on notice of a possible violation of the Uniform Code of Justice last month after he wrote on Facebook that he would not follow certain orders from the president. He later clarified the comments, saying he would not follow any unlawful orders from the commander-in-chief. He further said he believed his online activity was protected under the First Amendment.

Huff said she was troubled by Stein's posting, which read in part, "Screw Obama. I will not follow all orders from him."

The judge told one of Stein's attorneys, "You understand it's a pretty sensitive comment that he made," adding, "He can't do that."

Stein said his comment was made in the middle of a heated political debate.

The nine-year Marine Corps veteran said he was never told that anything he wrote was in violation of military policy. "I followed everything I've been told," Stein said outside court.

But looking back, the Marine said he shouldn't have made the statements about Obama.

"I said, C'mon Gary, that's not you," he told reporters.

Stein said he wants to re-enlist but his contract with the Marines is up July 28.

The Temecula resident, who is also a licensed real estate agent, said he will go "where the money is."

Stein's attorneys said they will look at all judicial remedies as the case moves forward.

Huff said Stein could seek to have his case reviewed by a military panel before a final decision is reached.

The judge said all citizens owe the military a debt of gratitude.

"It's a tribute to the system that he (Stein) wants to re-enlist," Huff said.

The military panel's recommendation will be forwarded to Brig. Gen. Daniel Yoo, the commanding general of the San Diego Marine Corps Recruiting Depot and Western Recruiting Region, who will make the final decision on whether to discharge Stein and under what conditions.

Stein attracted national media attention after he started the Armed Forces Tea Party Facebook page in 2010.

In a lawsuit filed in federal court in San Diego, Stein alleged that during the 17-month period from November 2010 through March 1, neither his commanding officer nor any other officer tried to restrict his Facebook activities. He also argued that he was not told his Facebook activities prejudiced good order and discipline. The lawsuit claimed Stein's free speech rights were violated.



— City News Service
Related Topics: Gary Stein
greeney2
 
Posts: 9669
Joined: Thu Apr 09, 2009 11:54 am

Postby The_Joker » Sun Apr 22, 2012 11:22 am

I was hoping that I was the one who would be proven wrong Greeney2 but you must remember that political agenda is now firmly in control of the military.

I sincerely hope that this Marine will not be given a DD however, I do believe his conduct will be considered as being "Conduct unbecoming of a United States Marine" which may very well result in a DD.

As ANZAC Day is only 2 days away, We must above all remember those who served to defend freedom and as it is often said in military service as you know, "Freedom is never free" Lest we forget.

Defending freedom is no longer the primary objective it is more about enforcing foreign policy and the interests of nations, governments sell it to the media and Mr and Mrs. Percy Public as defending freedom and democracy.

Defending freedom is having a military at home defending against breaches of our Constitutions and the land masses from invasion whilst maintaining a status of peace as countries it is not about preemptive strikes or occupation of another country as peace keepers or indeed a policing action.

Think about this in Australia it is the "Australian Defence Department" in the United States is the "Defence Department" the operative word is "Defence/Defense" in both.

In closing to my mini rant, never in history have the true meanings of the words in our language become so convoluted as they have today.
Remember remember the fifth of November
Gunpowder, treason and plot.
I see no reason why gunpowder, treason
Should ever be forgot...
User avatar
The_Joker
 
Posts: 693
Joined: Fri Jul 30, 2010 6:22 pm

Postby greeney2 » Sun Apr 22, 2012 12:33 pm

I'm thinking it may be Undesirable or Bad Conduct, since it is not a violent crime, or something that really casts a really disgraceful act, the nature of Abu Garib, rape or murder, etc. This is not a civil criminal act either, so it does not rise to that level to me, but I was wrong already, so we have to wait to see.
greeney2
 
Posts: 9669
Joined: Thu Apr 09, 2009 11:54 am

Postby greeney2 » Wed Apr 25, 2012 1:13 pm

He has been discharged with other than Honorable, but did not say which. I'm thinking Undesirable or Bad Conduct, but not Dishonable. The Supreme court upheld the Marine Corps right to look into his Facebook, and that since the Civil War active members of the military have some restrictions on Freedom of Speach. Anyone that takes the oath knows full well, you give up some of your rights or have some limits on them. This is a good example, he is bound more by military order, and chain of command, and may not say things that violate that. I do believe that had he just backed off, and had this not become such a public story, the outcome may have been different, plus his appeal struck right at the heart of Military disapline and command structure. He will loose all benifits with this discharge including GI Bills, Home Loans, and use of the VA Hospital. I am not sure how the VA hospital may be affected if he leaves with any war injuries.
greeney2
 
Posts: 9669
Joined: Thu Apr 09, 2009 11:54 am

Postby ricardo » Wed Apr 25, 2012 5:32 pm

greeney2 wrote:He has been discharged with other than Honorable, but did not say which. I'm thinking Undesirable or Bad Conduct, but not Dishonable. The Supreme court upheld the Marine Corps right to look into his Facebook, and that since the Civil War active members of the military have some restrictions on Freedom of Speach. Anyone that takes the oath knows full well, you give up some of your rights or have some limits on them. This is a good example, he is bound more by military order, and chain of command, and may not say things that violate that. I do believe that had he just backed off, and had this not become such a public story, the outcome may have been different, plus his appeal struck right at the heart of Military disapline and command structure. He will loose all benifits with this discharge including GI Bills, Home Loans, and use of the VA Hospital. I am not sure how the VA hospital may be affected if he leaves with any war injuries.




I read for the first time. he wrote , and publicly stated he would not salute the
cic. I could have read this wrong. but , saying that is conduct unbecoming and
the refusal will be insubordination . actionable under the code. he was legally bound as an member of the armed forces. police similarly are in many departments. 24 hour fuzz. so, they too theoretically are on duty, held to
conduct unbecoming etc... all the Time.


not sure how acting under colour of law is applied in each state unless Feds become involved. that is denial of civil rights while in performance of their duties. torture etc. over all I think the police do an excellent job in an difficult environment where conflicted jurisdictions make compliance a " grey "
area... ;)
User avatar
ricardo
 
Posts: 1494
Joined: Sun Dec 11, 2011 9:10 pm

Postby The_Joker » Sat Apr 28, 2012 1:12 am

Regardless, the marine in question's career is over and his future is somewhat bleak as a result of the Discharge. He will never be able to hold a Government Job regardless of the skills he may have that would be of benefit the country.

Insubordination in the military can't be tolerated nor should it, I think the penalty imposed is harsh and somewhat unjust but these are the times we live in unfortunately.

He was indeed made an example of as I feared. Another time another Government another outcome would most definitely been on the cards.

As they say "Once a Marine Always a Marine", so Semper Fi!
Remember remember the fifth of November
Gunpowder, treason and plot.
I see no reason why gunpowder, treason
Should ever be forgot...
User avatar
The_Joker
 
Posts: 693
Joined: Fri Jul 30, 2010 6:22 pm

Postby greeney2 » Sat Apr 28, 2012 10:03 am

Unfortunatly for him the meaning of Semper Fi, is fForever Faithful" which he did not do while he was a Marine. I would never say to him, Semper fI, and doubt any other Marine will either. The Marine Corp is very harsh when it comes to disappline, nobody is like us, and when you are given an order you do not question it, you do it.
greeney2
 
Posts: 9669
Joined: Thu Apr 09, 2009 11:54 am

Postby The_Joker » Sat Apr 28, 2012 7:40 pm

Semper = Always not Forever
Fi (shortened version of Fidelis) Fidelis = Faithful

Yes indeed the USMC are probably the most harsh in so far as discipline outside the U.S Navy Seals who bring a whole new meaning to the word harsh.

Making comments and carrying them out are very separate from each other. The marine of 9 years in question was made an example of.

None of us know what his service record was like, nor do we know if his had served in a "Hot Zone/s" or if he has suffered from any affects of being in such places. Nor were we present at the Court Martial to hear the evidence.

You have to remember the man was a 9 year veteran, something obviously went wrong with him if so what? Did that come out in the Court Martial?. I suggest that a veteran of 9 years service something had to go wrong with the guy to FUBAR as he did. As a former 06er that is my thought.

Then we must also look at the defence that was put forward and indeed at his attorney, was an adequate defence put forward or was the attorney assigned to him not doing his job properly? Who knows?, once again we do not know as we were not there.

I can tell you from experience that in Courts Martial that "Justice" is only a secondary factor and certain evidence that would be permitted in the Civilian Courts is not permitted in Courts Martial.

So I will leave this topic alone from here on in with some words of wisdom from over 2000 years ago "Thou shalt not judge lest ye be judged"
Remember remember the fifth of November
Gunpowder, treason and plot.
I see no reason why gunpowder, treason
Should ever be forgot...
User avatar
The_Joker
 
Posts: 693
Joined: Fri Jul 30, 2010 6:22 pm

Postby greeney2 » Sat Apr 28, 2012 9:15 pm

Yes, you are right, its always not forever. Had one of those senior moments I guess.
greeney2
 
Posts: 9669
Joined: Thu Apr 09, 2009 11:54 am

Previous

Return to The War on Terrorism & Homeland Security

  • View new posts
  • View unanswered posts
  • Who is online
  • In total there is 1 user online :: 0 registered, 0 hidden and 1 guest (based on users active over the past 10 minutes)
  • Most users ever online was 292 on Mon Apr 23, 2012 3:19 pm
  • Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest