The Black Vault

I'm not in agreement that At1w/0 believes the power of prayer/ holy spirit, is real
for OPN jus because it worked for her . that's too much of an self limiting concept. I'm sure she has witnessed other gifts/ cures in other individuals.

many will not know , of the holy spirit unless they
attempt what Ora is suggesting/ has suggested.

I also wanted to explore why Buddhists whom are near 'complete beings'
"depressed" under china oppression. elect to burn themselves to death.
in keeping w/ western theological thinking, suicide.

some previous posts refer to suffering to atone for sins. ( not suicide by guilt or remorse) it is an form of political protest. an unnatural horrific death,
that causes 'depression' and pain in those whom view this act. ( karmic chain of events inferred )

it's fair to say. suicide has a bad rap, and we should be more accepting of these
actions, if made by rational individuals or groups. ? ( opinion)

could suicide by an rational person, be acceptable "atonement" as well ?
there is historical precedent for this.

foot note - my real parents were killed in a plane crash years ago.

so , I guess I can imagine various other scenarios . (depressing yes.)

at1with0 wrote:
I don't think you're understanding what I mean by complete. A complete being has no lack, and thus no basis for desire. A complete being has no wants.

I don't think God can be considered a complete being until those of humanity choose to live the way He desires us to.

Humanity is an extension of God, yet we do not complete Him , because of the sinful nature of humanity.

God is mourning for our souls to return to Him, so He and His creation can become "complete" beings.

at1with0 wrote:
In that case, it isn't sin that causes depression but instead believing you are doing something wrong that causes depression. I feel sorry for people who believe that masturbation is wrong. It amounts to self-imposed guilt.

Incorrect . There are souls who feel no remorse at all for killing others , in fact they may even derive some twisted pleasure from it. They are not depressed, yet clearly they are in sin. Their consciousness of God , and what is good and right has been seared , by their own doing.

I feel sorry for people who don't believe masturbation is wrong. It can be a pit of self gratification that many turn to , so they do not have to deal with the reality of other situations. It is the "great escape" for the soul who does not want to deal with real issues in their lives. The feel good "in the moment" release, that never leads to true inner happiness, or working on what is truly important. Much like the person who overeats because it tastes good, for the instant gratification .

Often both of these sins , are the result of trying to deal with other pain in the soul, by trying to do something that makes someone feel better even if it be for a few short minutes. Both leave the soul feeling empty , and unsatisfied , and still yearning for healing , and divine love.

I think it's wonderful that you found a way to move past your pain through the power of the Holy Spirit but we both know that not all depressed patients will be cured by praying.

Certainly . But I still think if humanity as a whole really and truly practiced the commandments God gave to us, especially the first two, we would have very little depression on this earth.

Also, you have to admit, that not all depressed patients will be cured by medication , and they can indeed cause some serious side effects. Especially with young people . They have been known to snap (they can cause serious irratibility) , and end up taking their own life, or the lives of those around them.

OraProNobis wrote:I don't think God can be considered a complete being

We believe in different Gods. My God is complete.

Incorrect . There are souls who feel no remorse at all for killing others , in fact they may even derive some twisted pleasure from it. They are not depressed, yet clearly they are in sin. Their consciousness of God , and what is good and right has been seared , by their own doing.

I feel sorry for people who don't believe masturbation is wrong. It can be a pit of self gratification that many turn to , so they do not have to deal with the reality of other situations. It is the "great escape" for the soul who does not want to deal with real issues in their lives. The feel good "in the moment" release, that never leads to true inner happiness, or working on what is truly important. Much like the person who overeats because it tastes good, for the instant gratification .

Often both of these sins , are the result of trying to deal with other pain in the soul, by trying to do something that makes someone feel better even if it be for a few short minutes. Both leave the soul feeling empty , and unsatisfied , and still yearning for healing , and divine love.

Well the bottom line here is that masturbation does not cause depression or else a high percentage of the populace would be depressed.

Certainly . But I still think if humanity as a whole really and truly practiced the commandments God gave to us, especially the first two, we would have very little depression on this earth.

Also, you have to admit, that not all depressed patients will be cured by medication , and they can indeed cause some serious side effects. Especially with young people . They have been known to snap (they can cause serious irratibility) , and end up taking their own life, or the lives of those around them.

As I have explained, depression has a constellation of causes. Not all depression has a physical cause. The prime example is situational depression. An SSRI, for example, will not be able to bring back Dexter's dead murdered mother and thus not treat the cause of Dexter's depression. You cannot expect that meds will treat all depressions; in fact you would expect that meds don't work in all cases.

How do you explain that not all humans who ever lived are/were depressed yet depression is caused by sin?

at1with0 wrote:
How do you explain that not all humans who ever lived are/were depressed yet depression is caused by sin?

I have already explained it twice, but you refuse to accept the answer.

Souls who have seared their own God consciousness, feel no remorse or regret for much sin, therefore do not fall into depression. Also souls who do not care about justice , or their neighbors being treated fairly also do not feel sorrow or experience depression when they see the countless injustices and atrocities done to humans around the world each day.

Now there are some souls who do care, but do not let it depress them, though they have concern and caring .

Then there are the souls who feel extreme sorrow for some of the events they witness and experience, but know how to give it to God through prayer and offer it for reparation and conversion.

You say your God is complete.

I say my God is mourning for the souls of those who He created, to return to His ways.

I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree.

Contrary to popular belief, as well as not causing depression, masturbation does not cause blindness, either.

Now, where did I leave my glasses?

Oh, what's the point...

Sin can't cause depression because if it did every human would be depressed.

If Y only happens sometimes after X, then X is not the cause of Y.

It's pretty simple, really.

It's silly to think God is gonna cry Himself to sleep at night because of something He predicted perfectly when he created Adam and Eve. God knew Adam and Eve would screw up. God knew 6000 years ago what state humanity would be in as a result of sin. Do you think it rains because God is sad and that the volcano erupts when he's angry? It wouldn't surprise me if you did, given that you think God has human emotions.

at1with0 wrote:Sin can't cause depression because if it did every human would be depressed.

If Y only happens sometimes after X, then X is not the cause of Y.

It's pretty simple, really.

It's silly to think God is gonna cry Himself to sleep at night because of something He predicted perfectly when he created Adam and Eve. God knew Adam and Eve would screw up. God knew 6000 years ago what state humanity would be in as a result of sin. Do you think it rains because God is sad and that the volcano erupts when he's angry? It wouldn't surprise me if you did, given that you think God has human emotions.

Yes, it pretty simple atwith0 . Sin has a great deal to do with the depression that is suffered on this planet, whether its directly or indirectly.

Yes, God has human emotions, because He chose to become human , so He ,Himself could walk the earth and teach us, as well as die for our salvation.

If you want to make fun of me, and treat me like a small child because I believe this, go ahead.

I'm not here to exchange insults , only give an honest viewpoint.

God Bless you.

humphreys wrote:Contrary to popular belief, as well as not causing depression, masturbation does not cause blindness, either.

Now, where did I leave my glasses?

Oh, what's the point...

OPN said the " sin of excessive masturbation "

some is ok...too much is excessive... ?

recreational sex in marriage ? or procreation only ? what now ?

some is ok ...too much is excessive... ? OPN , what is apropriate sex in

marriage ? how frequent ?