The Black Vault

Well I don't know anything about them being with boys at the mason lodge, but I do share your opinion of the average doctor and their bad arrogant attitudes towards their patients. There just aren't great alternatives, in my opinion.

I guess the key is to look long and hard for the small percentage of good ones out there and hang onto them when you find them. But yeah, my experience of doctors has been much like yours.

In obvious "textbook" cases, they are fine - obvious infections and the like, but in anything even slightly complex or that might need a little thinking out of the box they are appalling, and they rarely take an approach that takes the individual they are talking to into account. It's just symptom a+symptom b=this diagnosis, and if that fails, you're either going to have to live with it or you're imagining it, or they give you a placebo.

It often feels like a drive-through, get you in and out, get you a treatment (medicine, whatever, just get rid of you for the time being), and then onto the next patient.

The system itself is as much to blame, and the solution is probably very complicated, but as-is it's not in a great place.

at1with0 wrote:

Yeah, but you don't know what God wants.

You don't know that . Nobody but God knows that.

atwith0 wrote:
Did you cease to be a sinner?

I managed with prayer to get some sins out of my life, that were effecting my mental health.

I will never totally cease to be a sinner,as long as I walk this earth, but I know how to reach out and ask and accept mercy for them now, as well as have them absolved, so they do not weigh me down emotionally and mentally.

at1with0 wrote:
All people are sinners but not all people are depressed (far from it). Therefore, sin does not cause depression.

Certainly true that many sinners do not feel grief at their sins, but indeed revel in them and boast of them. But that does not mean that at some point they will not feel the emotional and mental consequences of their choices.

What is certain is that the harm , and I mean serious harm that these sinners cause to others does cause others to hurt, and sometimes go into depression. Tell me that the sinners who scam the elderly for every last cent in their bank account, causing then serious grief , doesn't contribute to the depression of that elderly person, as well as the depression of family members that care, especially when they are forced to drastically change living arrangements ,to accommodate for the results of the choices ,of the sinners who chose to scam.

Sorry, but sin causes much much depression in this world. I would say it is the one MAJOR source of depression.

atwith0 wrote:
What about the millions of people for whom drugs do work?

You so sure it is the drug? Could be placebo effect like Humphreys mentioned.
Could be their own selves changing their chemistry through positive though, etc.

Not saying that drugs don't work for some , but this society that is reeking with sin, has the gall to say that most people suffering depression have something wrong with them chemically , when in fact it is the natural effects of a very sinful society.

Many souls have to suffer for the choices of a few , and the powers that be know how to screw the little guy, and then make him feel like it is his own dysfunction of the brain for feeling sad, and screw him over for even more money.

*sighs* Thats all I'm going to say on the subject.

I waste enough time in life debating issues endlessly, and I've made my position clear, and why I feel that way.

OraProNobis wrote:

at1with0 wrote:

Yeah, but you don't know what God wants.

You don't know that . Nobody but God knows that.

I do know that a complete being has no wants. Do you think God is incomplete because only an incomplete being has wants. Every time someone thinks God wants this or God wants that, they are wrong unless, of course, their God is incomplete like us humans. I personally couldn't believe a being were God if it were incomplete.

I managed with prayer to get some sins out of my life, that were effecting my mental health.

I will never totally cease to be a sinner,as long as I walk this earth, but I know how to reach out and ask and accept mercy for them now, as well as have them absolved, so they do not weigh me down emotionally and mentally.

If sin causes depression and you did not cease to be a sinner, then your depression must not have been cured.

at1with0 wrote:
All people are sinners but not all people are depressed (far from it). Therefore, sin does not cause depression.

Certainly true that many sinners do not feel grief at their sins, but indeed revel in them and boast of them. But that does not mean that at some point they will not feel the emotional and mental consequences of their choices.

That doesn't mean sin causes depression. If sin caused depression, every human would always be depressed.

What is certain is that the harm , and I mean serious harm that these sinners cause to others does cause others to hurt, and sometimes go into depression. Tell me that the sinners who scam the elderly for every last cent in their bank account, causing then serious grief , doesn't contribute to the depression of that elderly person, as well as the depression of family members that care, especially when they are forced to drastically change living arrangements ,to accommodate for the results of the choices ,of the sinners who chose to scam.

Sorry, but sin causes much much depression in this world. I would say it is the one MAJOR source of depression.

Not all depression is caused by sin. Simply, again, if sin caused depression every human would be depressed for their entire lives. Sin can cause depression but not because it is a sin.

atwith0 wrote:
What about the millions of people for whom drugs do work?

You so sure it is the drug? Could be placebo effect like Humphreys mentioned.
Could be their own selves changing their chemistry through positive though, etc.

Double blind studies compare the drugs to placebo.
But while we're on the subject of placebo, you so sure it is prayer that helped your depression and not be the placebo effect? Got any proof that it wasn't just placebo.

interesting psychology/ philosophy debate. sin as a causality for depression ?

from an catholic/ Christian perspective ? I'm curious what the religion says

about MASTURBATION from your perspective and training ( education)

if considered an sin . would depression be caused by this sin ?

" sin can cause depression not because it is a sin " clarification requested...

ricardo wrote:
" sin can cause depression not because it is a sin " clarification requested...

Well let's take murder for example which is clearly a sin in their book.

Let's say someone murders your mother. Why can that cause you to experience an episode of depression?


Let me give you two possibilities among a few:
(a) Murder is a sin according to Moses, a sin that can be absolved through the power of Christ incidentally
(b) You have lost your mother.


What do you honestly think? I think it's common sense.
I think Ora believes in the power of prayer because it worked in her case which is why it seems like common sense to her.

at1with0 wrote:
Not all depression is caused by sin. Simply, again, if sin caused depression every human would be depressed for their entire lives. Sin can cause depression but not because it is a sin.

Sin effects us , but prayer and the Holy Spirit can help diffuse that effect, in the sense that when someone seriously sins against us, it can cause hurt ,and pain, which can lead to anger and bitterness. By learning to forgive, and asking God for His healing for our spiritual and emotional wounds caused by others we can ward of depression caused by sin.

at1with0 wrote:
I do know that a complete being has no wants. Do you think God is incomplete because only an incomplete being has wants.

Again that is entirely your personal analysis, and is not based on absolute truth of God or an absolute truth on what a complete being wants or does not want.

Ricardo wrote :
interesting psychology/ philosophy debate. sin as a causality for depression ?

from an catholic/ Christian perspective ? I'm curious what the religion says

about MASTERBATION from your perspective and training ( education)

if considered an sin . would depression be caused by this sin ?

" sin can cause depression not because it is a sin " clarification requested...

Yes, depression could be caused by the sin of excessive masturbation, but only for those who have in their conscious the knowledge that it is wrong, and continue to do it without getting it absolved, or firmly making a commitment to fight the temptation.

Many have their consciousness seared as to what is sin and what is not. Those souls would not feel depression because they do not even realize they are in sin.

There are also souls who appear from the outside to be happy and well adjusted , but internally they are suffering from depression caused by remorse, guilt , etc.

OraProNobis wrote:

at1with0 wrote:
Not all depression is caused by sin. Simply, again, if sin caused depression every human would be depressed for their entire lives. Sin can cause depression but not because it is a sin.

Sin effects us , but prayer and the Holy Spirit can help diffuse that effect, in the sense that when someone seriously sins against us, it can cause hurt ,and pain, which can lead to anger and bitterness. By learning to forgive, and asking God for His healing for our spiritual and emotional wounds caused by others we can ward of depression caused by sin.

Again, if sin causes depression, explain how not even close to all humans, all of whom are sinners including you, are chronically depressed?

at1with0 wrote:
I do know that a complete being has no wants. Do you think God is incomplete because only an incomplete being has wants.

Again that is entirely your personal analysis, and is not based on absolute truth of God or an absolute truth on what a complete being wants or does not want.

I don't think you're understanding what I mean by complete. A complete being has no lack, and thus no basis for desire. A complete being has no wants. Therefore, when you say you know what God wants, like how Pres. Bush said God wants a war in Iraq, you are referring to an incomplete being which God is not.
As far as it being my personal analysis, at least it is that and not regurgitation from a book.

Yes, depression could be caused by the sin of excessive masturbation, but only for those who have in their conscious the knowledge that it is wrong, and continue to do it without getting it absolved, or firmly making a commitment to fight the temptation.

In that case, it isn't sin that causes depression but instead believing you are doing something wrong that causes depression. I feel sorry for people who believe that masturbation is wrong. It amounts to self-imposed guilt.


I noticed that you neglected to choose (a) or (b) in the above scenario. Why does the murder of your mother cause you depression??

I think it's wonderful that you found a way to move past your pain through the power of the Holy Spirit but we both know that not all depressed patients will be cured by praying.

not because it is a sin , was difficult to grasp.
depression as result of someone else's actions or sin. ( murder) yes, of course.

I'd characterize this type of depression as situational and not in need of meds.
for most people few exceptions...

but , in totality what you consider as self imposed guilt. (let's include other
subject matter), to illustrate a point I'd like to add. too much emphasis
on the individual( self )

your supposed to be social creatures and practice
higher values , and ethics. therefore , what you think is self imposed ,
may in reality be the intrinsic quality of social creatures self regulating.
in other words if not god, the group is whispering in your ear , telling,
compelling you to join them.

if as gods creation/ creature ,

will you not than be accepting


or rejecting god ?






how long can milk stay in a truck unrefrigerated ? ( room temp)

I'm not sure for an basis of an complete being not having lack or want.
if we are all sinners. but conversely, an complete being will not be a sinner.
which using as an example " complete being " is near impossible to achieve.
forgive me for not reading too far up this chain of posts.

depression is an normal human response ( emotional state ) its beneficial
and might possibly adjust chemical reactions in the brain for benevalant
goals. (deeds) there is a flip side.

often in reading the abstracts of pharmacology it's surprising how many drugs
have many negative physical side effects. additionally , the study will state;
we don't really know how this drug works. but , the test group of cherry picked healty adults showed negligible ill effects. ( small studies)
very small for these chemicals to have medical acceptance so quickly.