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Postby at1with0 » Thu Mar 08, 2012 10:26 am

humphreys wrote:I would never deliberately hurt a child.

What kind of lesson is that? When someone does something you don't agree with you hurt them? Applying pressure to a child's nerves, totally unneccesary and pretty sick to boot, even if it isn't particularly painful. Warped behaviour indeed.

You'd be amazed, but it's even possible to teach animals good behaviour without physically hurting them! :shock:

I'm actually friends with my young son, it's incredible how far that can get you.



How could this be? You're more evolved than God! :lol:
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Postby humphreys » Thu Mar 08, 2012 11:22 am

Halfabo wrote:Absolutely brother. We are an occupying army. It is our job to occupy until the return of our Commander in Chief. When He returns He will rule this earth. Until then we should not fraternize with the natives too much.


You guys scare the crap out of me sometimes!

It terrifies me when I read things like this that Christians are in positions of power, like presidents and such :|
"All of our behavior can be traced to biological events about which we have no conscious knowledge: this has always suggested that free will is an illusion."

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Postby humphreys » Thu Mar 08, 2012 11:31 am

at1with0 wrote:How could this be? You're more evolved than God! :lol:


It can't be, therefore...one of us isn't real, or God has been misquoted!
"All of our behavior can be traced to biological events about which we have no conscious knowledge: this has always suggested that free will is an illusion."

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Postby at1with0 » Thu Mar 08, 2012 12:08 pm

Man, I see in fight club the strongest and smartest men who've ever lived. I see all this potential, and I see squandering. God damn it, an entire generation pumping gas, waiting tables; slaves with white collars. Advertising has us chasing cars and clothes, working jobs we hate so we can buy sh*t we don't need. We're the middle children of history, man. No purpose or place. We have no Great War. No Great Depression. Our Great War's a spiritual war... our Great Depression is our lives. We've all been raised on television to believe that one day we'd all be millionaires, and movie gods, and rock stars. But we won't. And we're slowly learning that fact. And we're very, very pissed off.

-Tyler


humphreys wrote:
at1with0 wrote:How could this be? You're more evolved than God! :lol:


It can't be, therefore...one of us isn't real, or God has been misquoted!


Hehe... I vote for misquoted. Have thought that ever since I renounced my Christianity way back when.
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Postby gudskepteacal » Thu Mar 08, 2012 10:47 pm

And I wasn't buying the Spock 'pressure point punishment' article either, but which is really more hurtful : short, measured, belt or paddle strikes to the backside which does and will result in at least an acceptable amount of manners/civility by beginning of school age OR letting the child run roughshod over house and community thereby having to deal with the myriad of negative situations that surely come with an unpunished, undisciplined upbringing? How else are you going to make them obey you; shout over the top of their screaming and yelling? Parents don't spank their children because they want to hurt them; they indeed do it out of love so that they may shape and mold the child into the kind of person they can be proud of...which is their job.
"History records that the money changers have used every form of abuse, intrigue, deceit, and violent means possible to maintain their control over governments by controlling money and its issuance." - James Madison
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Postby Halfabo » Fri Mar 09, 2012 1:03 am

humphreys wrote:
Halfabo wrote:Absolutely brother. We are an occupying army. It is our job to occupy until the return of our Commander in Chief. When He returns He will rule this earth. Until then we should not fraternize with the natives too much.


You guys scare the crap out of me sometimes!

It terrifies me when I read things like this that Christians are in positions of power, like presidents and such :|


Why should that scare you Humphreys? We are not here to rule over anyone. We are not here to enforce God's laws on mankind. When Christ returns, then we will exorcise the authority He has given us. Even then the world will be ruled with love for mankind, not love for the law. Until He returns we are only observers, councilors and advisers. We are here only as recon right now. We will not be enforcing God's rule over the earth until Christ returns. Then we will rule with love and compassion, not by force. There is nothing to fear, yet.
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Postby humphreys » Fri Mar 09, 2012 4:31 am

gudskepteacal wrote:And I wasn't buying the Spock 'pressure point punishment' article either, but which is really more hurtful : short, measured, belt or paddle strikes to the backside which does and will result in at least an acceptable amount of manners/civility by beginning of school age OR letting the child run roughshod over house and community thereby having to deal with the myriad of negative situations that surely come with an unpunished, undisciplined upbringing? How else are you going to make them obey you; shout over the top of their screaming and yelling? Parents don't spank their children because they want to hurt them; they indeed do it out of love so that they may shape and mold the child into the kind of person they can be proud of...which is their job.


I have never had to harm my son.

Treat them with respect, listen to them, work with them. If necessary you can punish in other ways by taking things away like TV.

It's interesting though, if children respect you, and don't fear you, they will want to please you and knowing they have disappointed you can be punishment enough.

I come from a large family. At no time has physical harm been necessary.
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Postby humphreys » Fri Mar 09, 2012 5:30 am

Halfabo wrote:Why should that scare you Humphreys?


You don't think I should be afraid that people in power are clearing implying a division between believers, and unbelievers?

Don't fraternize with the natives? Come on man, that's a terrifying attitude.
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Postby frrostedman » Fri Mar 09, 2012 11:21 pm

humphreys wrote:I would never deliberately hurt a child.

What kind of lesson is that? When someone does something you don't agree with you hurt them? Applying pressure to a child's nerves, totally unneccesary and pretty sick to boot, even if it isn't particularly painful. Warped behaviour indeed.

You'd be amazed, but it's even possible to teach animals good behaviour without physically hurting them! :shock:

I'm actually friends with my young son, it's incredible how far that can get you.

Of course, in usual fashion, you twisted my post into support for child abuse. :liar:

I only said that I read a book that described the use of minor pain, just enough to get a child's attention, as a tool to steer the child in the right direction, and the author went on to demonstrate that our nerves generate pain signals for good reason; to warn us to stop doing what we are doing. And, I didn't even say I supported the position, I only said I was reminded of the book.

And if you think the dispensing of minor pain is "sick" and "twisted" then you are in the radical fringe and vast minority compared to the rest of humanity since the dawn of time. Maybe you are lucky; your child is special, maybe smart like you and your wife; and that's great. But most children react well to non-abusive physical punishment and they grow up respecting and loving their parents. You can deny that all you want, but it's a fact.

By the way, for the sake of argument, presuming God exists... I guess it's your position that He is "sick" and "twisted" for creating us with the ability to feel physical pain at all. You seem to be arguing that there is not a single useful purpose for pain.
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Postby humphreys » Sat Mar 10, 2012 2:07 am

frrostedman wrote:Of course, in usual fashion, you twisted my post into support for child abuse. :liar:

I only said that I read a book that described the use of minor pain, just enough to get a child's attention, as a tool to steer the child in the right direction, and the author went on to demonstrate that our nerves generate pain signals for good reason; to warn us to stop doing what we are doing. And, I didn't even say I supported the position, I only said I was reminded of the book.


Go back and read my post. At no point did I say you supported the method, least of all child abuse. I was responding to your description of the book, I have no idea whether you agree with it or not, but to me it is sick and twisted and a horrible false way to coerce a child into complying with your demands.

frrostedman wrote:And if you think the dispensing of minor pain is "sick" and "twisted" then you are in the radical fringe and vast minority compared to the rest of humanity since the dawn of time.


Now who is twisting words? I would rather a very quick minor slap on the bottom to a "spock nerve hold".

However, I do agree that no pain whatsoever should be dished out onto a child, and if that makes me a radical, then great. The world is a pretty messed up place, as you'd surely agree, so it does not worry me to go against the grain. You would understand that yourself, I bet, as someone who is happy to do the same.

We are living in a world that is just coming to terms with things like homosexuality, and respecting people of different races, as a species we're a little slow sometimes, but thankfully we eventually get there and recognize our previous behaviour as wrong, that's why we don't burn as many witches these days.

frrostedman wrote:But most children react well to non-abusive physical punishment and they grow up respecting and loving their parents.


Perhaps, but it doesn't mean there is not a better way.

frrostedman wrote:By the way, for the sake of argument, presuming God exists... I guess it's your position that He is "sick" and "twisted" for creating us with the ability to feel physical pain at all. You seem to be arguing that there is not a single useful purpose for pain.


For someone who cries foul about people twisting words you sure do like to do it yourself.

Pain is an evolved survival mechanism, it is very useful. That does not mean we can dish it out to others as we please.
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