The Black Vault

by **zoltan2** » Sat Feb 11, 2012 2:13 pm

greeney2 wrote:Why do you go off on another Tichen rant instead of answering a simple question? A clergy confession, and a confession to ones lawyer is confidential and protected in our and your constitution. I asked you a specific question and you have not answered, why do you think they should not be forced to devulge such confessions? You can not justify one without the other.

I agree about severe punishments, but torture is not in our justice system, but many argue over the death penalty. You name a few crimes that should be the death penalty and I agree, but that is not the question,we are discussing the concept of Confession and if those who have ben confessed to should not have to devulge it. You could consider they become co-conspiriters, and accomplices, and commit obstruction of justice with their silence, howeever it is a protected right. Why is that, if our systems are based on truth?

By the way, if you are counting crimes, IMHO arson is attempted murder and a capital crime, like trying to burn down a church.

I think that they should be force by law to divulge such confessions on both side clergy and lawyers.
Killing or rapping children can be exceptions.
By the way IMO confession should be abolished by all churches period

by **greeney2** » Sat Feb 11, 2012 5:18 pm

So, I understand what you just said, Lawyers and Clegy should be forced to devulge Confessions, but you also said there would be acceptions according to the crime. That you would abolish any attorney/ client privilage, and you would strip a person of his right to practice his religion disallowing Confession. That you would abolish the Catholic rite of Confession, for over 1 billion Catholics, and any other clergy Confession as well. Over on the other threads, you also have no understanding of the Constitution again, not understanding the mandated law from Obama over birth control coverage. I'm pretty sure there is no diffenence in these issues between the USA and Canada.

by **zoltan2** » Sat Feb 11, 2012 5:45 pm

greeney2 wrote:So, I understand what you just said, Lawyers and Clegy should be forced to devulge Confessions, but you also said there would be acceptions according to the crime. That you would abolish any attorney/ client privilage, and you would strip a person of his right to practice his religion disallowing Confession. That you would abolish the Catholic rite of Confession, for over 1 billion Catholics, and any other clergy Confession as well. Over on the other threads, you also have no understanding of the Constitution again, not understanding the mandated law from Obama over birth control coverage. I'm pretty sure there is no diffenence in these issues between the USA and Canada.

If you beleive that the priests who hears in confession that a child molester and rapists admits his wrong doings while another confess that he his a murderer and the priests does not denounce this well you are a sick puppy . Not only that by you are a guilty as the Vatican institution that has been hiding such things. The Catholic institution is a very sick institution in letting such crimes to be unpunished.
In my opinion the law is above all religious convictions in these type of matters.
Its to easy to hide what you did wrong under a robe

by **greeney2** » Sat Feb 11, 2012 7:39 pm

The US Constitution and the US Supreme court has upheld both of these rights of attorney/client and Clergymen/ confession privilage, so you can just get off your high horse about the Catholic Church. I am quite sure the same issue was ruled in Canada to honor the same thing, according to your equivilant Constitution, and most likely landmark Court rulings in Canada.

That has nothing to do with bashing me for being a Catholic, or the Catholic Church whatsoever, it has to do with current laws in both our countries. Both countries uphold the confidenciality of these things. I guess you do not believe in your Constitutional rights at all. You seem to let the imagined Catholic abuse story Tichen lied about, affect Zoltans judgment about the law. If I didn't know better I would think you both are related, but like it or not, these rights are honored by both countries.

by **ricardo** » Sat Feb 11, 2012 10:20 pm

what you all need to be concerned about are NSL national security letters
supposed to be non content and can come w/ a gag order. so, although
the clergy may not be able to talk about you. they sure can turn over church records about you. I think the church accepts this too. do priests keep records
of confessionals ? Scientology was routed this way. (if you call that a church.)

DRs get these requests all the time. I know. banks too. rats rating out rats.
than if found out you knew. your rated out. the ultimate rat out tool.
brought to you by the republican party and homeland security.

the trick is to get you to confess to an non priest acting like a priest. creepy,
ain't it ??? hold the thought brother... while I get the new , ' outsourced priest'
non- ordained. just keep that in mind. it works. ( organized crime Italy)
I'm sorry greeney 2 . thought the EEF should know.

by **ricardo** » Sat Feb 11, 2012 10:27 pm

won't be surprised if the Sandusky gang pull this confessional gig.
saving souls is important but it actually is sorta recognized as a weighted
vs community safety . or, that's my limited understanding of where the church
ecclesiastical affairs may be heading. in the courts and the business of confessionals.

ps/ see direct prayer
reference... the god link.

by **greeney2** » Sat Feb 11, 2012 11:40 pm

No they do not keep records of Confessions, since you are probably not a Catholic, Confessions are done in a private Confessional booth where the priest is closed in a small room no bigger than he can sit in. You go into an adjoining booth and kneel like you are praying. The priest opens a sliding window about the size of your head. that has a screen and both only can see a siloette, not even a face. The priest does not even know your name. Sometimes a Priest may hear your Confession face to face, but normally a person goes to the church on Saturday when Confessions are herd in the Confessional booth. The only record of your Confession is in the head of the Priest it was given too, You, and God.

by **ricardo** » Sat Feb 11, 2012 11:47 pm

greeney2 wrote:No they do not keep records of Confessions, since you are probably not a Catholic, Confessions are done in a private Confessional booth where the priest is closed in a small room no bigger than he can sit in. You go into an adjoining booth and kneel like you are praying. The priest opens a sliding window about the size of your head. that has a screen and both only can see a siloette, not even a face. The priest does not even know your name. Sometimes a Priest may hear your Confession face to face, but normally a person goes to the church on Saturday when Confessions are herd in the Confessional booth. The only record of your Confession is in the head of the Priest it was given too, You, and God.

thanks. I wonder if sneaky cops can wire tap a confessional room ?

by court order ? it wouldn't surprise me. :roll:

by **greeney2** » Sun Feb 12, 2012 12:06 am

Wire Tap??? The priest is not in a Telephone booth. :lol:

Seriously, they would never be allowed to bug a Confessional, in fact prison can not tape converstations of inmates when they are with attorneys, or the clergy. Everything else is recordedd, like phone calls or visits from family.

by **ricardo** » Sun Feb 12, 2012 2:48 am

greeney2 wrote:Wire Tap??? The priest is not in a Telephone booth. Seriously, they would never be allowed to bug a Confessional, in fact prison can not tape converstations of inmates when they are with attorneys, or the clergy. Everything else is recordedd, like phone calls or visits from family.

I know it's not a wired telephone both, I know a little about confessionals.
let me share something w/ you. dr patient privilege is over. in spite of what they tell you to your face. ( I know a lot of drs. )

confessional rooms/ boths have been recorded , wired...
I'm sorry I can not prove that to you.

I also know 99% of priests would be defrocked for any knowledge or participation
in this. but there is always the greater good argument to this.

oh a little FYI cops, courts, lawyers , cell mates can use fake cops , courts, lawyers, and cell mates and use your statements against you. nor is miranda right s required to be read at arrest. times have changed.

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