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Government and Political Conspiracies

Where I Am Coming From

Throughout time, there have been countless government and political conspiracies that have kept us wondering. This forum is dedicated to that very topic. Got a conspiracy theory of your own? Post it, and try to back it up as best you can!

Postby shadowcass » Mon Nov 07, 2011 7:22 pm

I want to clarify my position on "Conspiracy Theories".
Most of them are harmless fun.
SOME have a basis in fact.
But SOME are very FAR from harmless...for they are founded in bigotry and fear.
And when I encounter THOSE I feel compelled to register my deep disgust and disapproval of them.

Anyone who knows anything about the history of the Human Species must do the same.

Whether we point to the excesses of the Third Reich or to the Age of the Inquisitions it doesn't seem to me to matter. The Mark of the Devil blazes out whenever these two (fear and bigotry) raise their ugly heads.

Even in Israel, the ONE nation above ALL OTHERS one might expect would know and shun such evils events in Gaza and their treatment of the Palestinians leads one to beleive that the only thing they learned from the Holocaust was how to imitate it.

(Noam Chomsky, himself a Jew, is good on this ... er-6-2010/ )

But we in the United States are not immune to this either. Whether one recalls the Internment Camps that were set up for American citizens of Japanese heritage following the bombing of Pearl Harbor----camps that were OSTENSIBLY for their protection against the excesses of other Americans who might blame them for that event---but if so, why was all their property, including businesses, personal banking accounts, and so on not only confiscated BY the US Government but never returned?)

And we see it happening again with the anti-Muslim rantings of self-aggrandizing fear-mongerers today...with the results that we have seen: ... id=5550361

and ... m-letters/

I try to be friends (or at least on friendly terms) with most people. But the one thing I cannot stand is unreasoning hatred of ANY GROUP or RACE or FAITH.

Whether it be the ones I have mentioned or the Anti-Zionist propaganda promoted by ignorant persons who from whatever motive swallow whole the garbage published by various extremist groups..whether they call themselves Aryan Supremacists or whatever) and thenre-spew their vitriol again.

They don't even know what Zionism really IS and always HAS been.

Now, I have made My position clear.

I won't engage in unending arguments with those who post such garbage here or anywhere else on the web. I simply state my position and move on.
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Postby greeney2 » Mon Nov 07, 2011 8:44 pm

Well said Shadowcass, I have a few things to add to what you said. I fight to the death practically with people on this board, and have been branded as the "ass*&^# of the earth" for it, challenging some of these ridiculous theories. The common denominator with these people is never answering questions, spinning, never conceeding to any point, shaming your opinion, and telling you how much they know.

The misuse of the internet, posting anything under the sun, is extremely harmful on a worldwide level. Lies and fabricated stories, madeup senerios, complete falsehoods bombard the internet, to sway elections, instagate distrust, and influence world opinions, against the USA. No more shameful use of this, was the campaign against the Bush administration, of outright lies. Al Franken after elected, admitted to the social media being a primary tool used.
Anti Bush propaganda and lies, used to instill the idea, that voting for any republican, would just be more GWB. It was all predicated on GWB bashing starting with the Gore loss. OUr last election gave us Obama, and a Democratic Congress, based on a 8-year character assasination of GWB. They were relentless with McCain, and Sarah Palin, now look how Obama the Democrats have put us over the edge of depression. All a result of lies, conspiracy theories about Bush, none of it proven.
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Postby shadowcass » Tue Nov 08, 2011 5:19 am

Well, to be fair...we no longer have a Democratic Congress,,,it is primarily Republican now. And not much of anything is getting done...people are having too much fun playing party politics instead of seeking a fair and bi-partisan way to solve some of our country's problems.

As for being on the "Edge of Depression" I don't think one can lay the true blame at the feet of either President. The fault goes to the greed that has run so rampant in America through most of its history. In fact, history is a great teacher in this way..if anyone would bother to pay attention. BOTH economic crises...this one and the one in 1929 were both worldwide in their effects.

In other words...we ain't the only people suffering. But this one is really MILD by comparison with the earlier one. If people would but look at what happened with the '29 Wall Street Crash they would be dancing in the streets that they are living through THIS one and not THAT one.
For instance---at the end of last month unemployment in this country was at 8.4%.

In 1933, at the worst point in the Great Depression years, unemployment rates in the United States reached almost 25%, with more than 11 million people looking for work.

Think those campsites at "Occupy Wall Street" and so on are a pain? During the Great Depression “Hoovervilles” (named after Herbert Hoover, the American president many blamed for the Great Depression) and shantytowns sprung up all across America, areas in which people gathered and constructed makeshift homes out of boxes, packing crates, abandoned cars, and scraps of wood. And people weren't camping there for fun. They had no where else to go.

“The Roaring Twenties” marked a time when America was overdependent on production, automobiles were the leading industry, and there was a great disparity between rich and poor. More than 60% of the population was living below poverty levels, while a mere 5% of the wealthiest people in America accounted for 33% of the income, and the richest 1% owned 40% of the nation’s wealth. This uneven distribution of wealth was mirrored in the unequal distribution of riches between industry and agriculture.

Sound familiar?
How about THIS: With only loose stock market regulations in place before the Great Depression, investors were able speculate wildly, buying stocks on margin, needing only 10% of the price of a stock to be able to complete the purchase. Rampant speculation led to falsely high stock prices, and when the stock market began to tumble in the months leading up to the October 1929 crash, speculative investors couldn’t make their margin calls, and a massive sell-off began. While the great rise in the stock market (from 181 points in early 1928 to 381 points in September 1929) was fueled by optimism and false hope, the plunge was flamed by stark fear.

Seen anything like that lately?

THIS time we bailed out the banks and some major businesses....back THEN we didn't...

By 1933, 11,000 of the nation’s 25,000 banks had disappeared.

The run on America’s banks began immediately following the stock market crash of 1929. Overnight, hundreds of thousands of customers began to withdraw their deposits. With no money to lend and loans going sour as businesses and farmers went belly up, the American banking crisis deepened. And people lost EVERYTHING. There was no FDIC back then...when the money was gone it was gone...that was all.

Social Security was not signed into Law (by Franklin Roosevelt who, like Obama, inherited that economic crisis from a Republican President ;) until 1935. Before that there was no such thing. Incidentally, New York was the first state to issue Welfare payments. These also began around the middle of the Great Depression. Now ALL states have such programs.

Medicare didn't come along until 1966. And yes, Virginia, it is run by the Federal Government.

But getting back to the Great Depression...close to 12 million Americans died of starvation during the Great Depression.

You really isn't so bad this time IS it?
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Postby Cole_Trickle » Tue Nov 08, 2011 5:58 am

Well said Shadowcass, I have a few things to add to what you said. I fight to the death practically with people on this board, and have been branded as the "ass*&^# of the earth" for it, challenging some of these ridiculous theories. The common denominator with these people is never answering questions, spinning, never conceeding to any point, shaming your opinion, and telling you how much they know.

Just exactly wtf are you talking about greeney? Are you sure your knife is sharp enough to take on the more educated when it comes right down to it?

Some theories are propagated by those who would have you chase your tail----------The lead post on this thread took all of a couple paragraphs to cite one. ;)

It would take me far too much effort, far too long to EVER make it to where you could ever understand my take on the big three--------------the only ones I give a damn about.

The Twins
The Moon Bullshit
and of course--JFK

The rest are all of the elites well guarded secrets----------------I'm thinking along the lines of HIV here Greeney...................Just an example and absolutely as far as I'll go.

Save the bleeding heart BS-----------ANYONE WHO THINKS THEY CARE ABOUT YOU IS AN ABSOLUTE FOOL. I find that the worst of all.........

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Postby greeney2 » Tue Nov 08, 2011 10:54 am

The common denominator with these people is never answering questions, spinning, never conceeding to any point, shaming your opinion, and telling you how much they know.

Cole, you just did what I said people like you do. Shamed my opinion, told everyone how much smarter you are, and refuse to ever conceed a thing. I also forgot your normal spelling put downs. People like you Cole, are so harmful with your know it all bullshit, you are the problem with the internet misuse. Thinking you know everything buy concocting crap reading between the lines. You will always think of yourself as some superior crusader, and everyone else is stupid, unless they are on your side. Unfortunatly, millions of people around the world, read and believe things like you write. Its no more than gossup and the rumor mill, its all very harmful.
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Postby greeney2 » Tue Nov 08, 2011 11:54 am

Shadowcass, I like the way you give your opinions. Yes, the voters sent a message in the last election, and booted out several Democratic seats, and Nancy Polosi got demoted. Harry Ried unfortunatly got reelected, however they had their chance everything got worse. I agree, Congress right now is flat on their butts, locking horns, deadlocks, we are just spinning our wheels. The deficeit has grown, bailouts were a joke, we really do not know the true unemployment rates, I think they know if they start tossing numbers well above 10's, people will panic. Bad enough now, desparate times, crime is up, and jails so crowded we have no room or money for prisoners. Most states are near bankrupsy.

One difference between now and the great depression, is that the GD the stock market crashed and jobs were lost, I believe 25% may have been the figures unemployed. We also did not have the kinds of welfare we have today, Federal and State disability programs, etc. So when you hear 10% are unemployed, that may only be the figures of checks going out to people collecting unemployment, not a true picture of everyone jobless. It may not include those who got onto disabilty programs, SS disability, State disability, etc. We hide the unemployment by letting these people stay permanantly in these programs. Single mothers with 5 kids, etc. People get into these programs, and may not show on the real unemployed counts. Add them all up, and see how many do not have jobs, my guess is not far from the depression. To those jobless right now, they are in a depression.

You are right about the greed part, but its not the same thing as the GD. The Clinton administration was a big proponent of "going global", in the work world. It was also a time when sweeping new enviormental laws were so hard to contend with, businesses closed up in the USA and started up in Mexico border towns. Campanies, started outsoursing billions of dollars in produces to Asia, millions of jobs were lost to giving our work to other countries. This was not the case in the great depression. We could overnight pull all these jobs back into this country, forcing businesses to bring them back. That is the downside of free enterprize. I am not in favor of taxing the rich out of business, however to all those companies who outsourse to foriegn countries, a special penalty tax should go to them.

That kind of greed, sending unskilled or minimal skill labor jobs to 3rd world counties, leaving our people hopelessly jobless should be a crime. Entire towns fold up due to this practice, all for corparate profit. Remember that shopping at Walmarts, they are full of 3rd world country products. Kathy Lee Gifford got into trouble with her clothing line coming from African Sweat shops--near slave labor. Industries have folded up in this country as a result, like the steel industry, clothing industry, electronics. We have outsoursed ourselves into ruin, and allow those like China to buy out things in this country.

We went to the mall to buy a gift the other day. Mrs. G2 was in the store, and I found a nice place to sit next to a food court. I saw a UP guy stop for a drink, letting his push cart full of boxes 10 feet away. These malls are such huge overhead, I do not know how they stay in business, but many of them appear to be Asian owned stores. We have a heavy Asian population in the Porter Ranch area of the valley, which is a wealthy neighborhood. On many of the boxes on the UPS cart, were printed "Product of Viet Nam", "China", "Tiwan".

WE are selling off America, step by step.
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Postby shadowcass » Tue Nov 08, 2011 6:43 pm

You amazes me how little some people understand about the world around them. there is a reason for the Environmental Laws. a very GOOD reason. To protect the air we need to breathe, the water we need to drink, and the planet we need to live on.

Big Business has proven they cannot be relied on to do this out of the goodness of their hearts.

Their track record on this sucks.

I'm not talking about preserving the habitat of some owls or saving the whales...barbecue the owls and nuke the whales if you want, i don't care.


Ever hear of a place called Love Canal?

Here's a good introductory article to the the events that happened there: ... al/01.html
There is more (including follow up studies) here:

I was 18 when this story first broke and I have never forgotten.

Ever hear of "The Killer Fog of London?"

(In all those beloved Sherlock Holmes stories there is "a dense yellow fog swirling down Baker Street" but it isn't fog. It is SMOG. And it can kill. And in 1952 it DID. 4,000 people died that year.)

Here's a link to the NPR story recalling the event: ... yId=873954

And with deregulation the problems are coming back ... water.html

There are more important things than being able to buy the latest edition Blackberry....
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Postby greeney2 » Wed Nov 09, 2011 12:18 am

Shadowcass, I grew up in Buffalo, but all the Love canal things were in the news years after we moved to california. I do remember very well the steel industry, Bethlehem steel plants all around Lake Erie, and what it did to the Lake. My company has had its share of problems in our area, with triclorethelene cleaning fluids in the water table, and other problems in our test facility.
That said, just our company spent millions in clean up efforts.

Where the enviormental laws have gone way to far forinstance, what we had to to to control use of things like acetone, and the cost related to anything in the factory. These were the same things you could buy at Home depot, or any building center with no controls. These overboard regulations, cost companies millions and add to the USA being non-competitive in labor rates to small unregulated job shops, or over the border. The EPA is good for some things, but not for many things.
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Postby shadowcass » Wed Nov 09, 2011 2:11 am

"Good in some things"...yes. Do they go overboard with some things? Yes, of course.

Government (and Government Agencies) and Political Action Committees and so on all have something in common. They are made up of fallible human beings.

When you strip away the mystique and the pomp and all the fooforaw you end up with just folks. Folks like YOU and folks like ME.

None of us has all the answers....we all have opinions, of course. On a wide variety of subjects.

But HERE'S the problem we have NOW. We elected a Democratic President and a Democratic Congress and what with the lunacy of the Tea Party and the Birthers and people like Rush Limbaugh (the "Unofficial" Spokesman of the Republican Party) saying he'd rather see Obama fail than for America to recover from the Economic Crisis we came into under the Republican days in office the Official Position for the Republicans became one of stalling.

And trying to shift the blame knowing that a great proportion of the American Citizenry have the memory retention span of an absent-minded blowfish.

Rush audio and article: ... 60183.html

for those who have wondered howe our current Global Economic Crisis happened (it had very little to do with companies outsourcing jobs or the EPA) here's a couple of articles: ... ial-crisis ... -2011.html ... id=4025704

President Obama, you'll remember, didn't take office until January of 2009. By which time this crisis was in full swing.

I know they tell you differently on all those conservative talk shows and radio shows...just as they like to try and blame the events of 9/11 on the Democrats although George W. Bush had been in office for almost a YEAR when that happened.
(Feel free to look it up).
The problem NOW is that (primarily the Extremist Lunkheads of the Tea Party---who basically just really hate the idea that one of THEM is President of the United States...same as Rush Limbaugh and Pat Robertson hate it)) but to a certain extent the whole Conservative Party do not WANT a solution that benefits the American people if it comes from the other side of the Political Aisle.

(They well remember the pupularity of Franklin D. Roosevelt who was elected to FOUR successive terms because of the measures he took that helped us recover from the debacle that was 1929 and they don't want to see the Democrats take credit for reducing the effects of the mess they caused THIS time).

And as for the American people..their attention span (and their collective memory) is so short that they are already voting into office people who share the same ideas as those who were responsible for the mess in the first place. Why? because the Democrats didn't give them an "instant fix."
They didn't wave their magick wand and make all the bad go away.

Oh, they HEARD President-Elect Obama when he told them that recovery was going to be hard and that it would take a long time...but they didn't believe it.

And the Americans of today are so weak and vacillating that they can't hang in there when the going is tough.

Our parents and grandparents who faced a far HARSHER depression-a depression which lasted eleven YEARS---and which was followed immediately by our entrance into World War II with all the war-time shortages and sacrifices civilians in even the USA had to deal with.

In case you forgot that went like THIS:

Yes, they would be ashamed of this generation...a generation that can't even put aside its differences for a short time and work for the common good.
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