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Islam in their own words

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Postby hxxx » Sun Oct 02, 2011 9:43 am

I believe in many countries passsing out Christian literature, is the death penalty.

Really? Name 3.
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Postby greeney2 » Sun Oct 02, 2011 10:32 am

Afganistan, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia. While you are checking it out, look at their laws about rape that may suprize you.
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Postby greeney2 » Sun Oct 02, 2011 10:40 am

Add Turkey and Indonesia to the list, You can also start on Africa, for a few more. How many do you need until you add something useful, and not Heckling? :roll:

Muslim Countries Becoming Bolder in Persecuting Christians

Issue Date: September/October 2001

Islam's hostility to Christians is beginning to get some attention from the media. The Associated Press reports that a German Christian relief agency was raided in early August by police from the Afghan Ministry for the Promotion of Virtue and Prevention of Vice. Nearly 100 were arrested including 2 American, 4 German and 2 Australian aid workers. They were charged with preaching Christianity in this Muslim nation.

Bibles, videos, and records with Christian radio frequencies were confiscated as evidence. Also arrested were 16 Afghan workers and 64 young boys whom the police said were being taught Christianity. Officials said the boys would be re-educated in Islam and released later.

The fate of the others was not yet clear. In January this year, the Afghan government warned that conversion to Christianity was punishable by death. Given the harsh and sometimes fatal treatment of Christians in other Islamic countries, there is grave concern, particularly for the Afghan workers. Hopefully the world will be watching.

A little investigating on the internet turns up reports of Muslim persecution of Christians from many other countries dominated by Islam. In Indonesia, reports date back into last year of Muslim "holy war fighters" aided in some cases by government troops using sophisticated weaponry on a campaign to eradicate Christians from whole regions of the country.

In March, a report came out of Pakistan that young Christian girls were being kidnapped and raped by Muslims. One girl was kidnapped after sharing Christ with a schoolmate. Her parents were told that she had converted to Islam and wished to leave her Christian home.

Local police refused to investigate her parents' complaint and her whereabouts was not known. Another Pakistani Christian faces death by hanging for blasphemy against "the sacred name of the Holy Prophet (Mohammed)."

A Turkish Christian was arrested in February and charged with insulting Islam and Mohammed. Proselytism is not illegal in Turkey, but their criminal laws prohibit "insulting the books, prophets, or values of another religion." This makes it all but impossible to obey the great commission, so any soul-winning activity could be construed as violating the law.

An obscure war is going on in the southern Philippines where Muslims are using terror to try and establish a separate Islamic state. Christians and Roman Catholics are frequently kidnapped and some have been beheaded.

In Africa, several countries have become dominated by Islam and anyone who does not convert comes under extreme persecution, displacement or death.

Few Americans are aware that Saudi Arabia, the home of Islam, is one of the most oppressive countries for Christians. There are no churches in the whole country. Foreign workers make up one-third of the population, many of whom are Christians.

For their entire stay, which may be years, they are forbidden to display any Christian symbols or Bibles, or even meet together publicly to worship and pray. Some have watched their personal Bibles put through a shredder when they entered the country.

In the past, foreign Christians caught practicing their faith have been deported. Recently there has been an increase of midnight raids with Christians dragged off to prison and computers, Bibles, books, tapes and family photos confiscated.

Much of this news is ignored by the rest of the world but Bible believers should be aware and pray for the fellow believers in the Muslim countries. Over one billion people are bound by this false religion. They need to be freed by the truth of the gospel.

We should study carefully the books that have been written on witnessing to Muslims. There are an estimated 5 million Muslims living in the U.S. Many have strong ties to their homelands. If we win one of them to Christ, we can influence family members both here and on the other side of the world.
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Postby Halfabo » Sun Oct 02, 2011 11:06 am

hxxx wrote:
greeney2 wrote: Posessing any Bible literature is the death sentence.

Really? Don't think so.

Really? Try it.
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Postby zoltan2 » Sun Oct 02, 2011 4:04 pm

hxxx wrote:Any Imam can issue a fatwa AND all muslims can think for themselves and disregard said fatwa.

If you want to hear 'Islam in their own words', go talk to Muslims at your local mosque. There are plenty of Muslims in the US. I'd guess many of them would be happy to speak with you. Plenty of devout (and not-so devout) Muslims that have been here for generations without blowing themselves or you up... Or you can accept the cherry picked passages quoted above as representative the whole. As if the same couldn't be done for your god's bookey-wookey.

One problem with the 'Muslim world' is that illiteracy is rampant. If one can't read "the word of god" and accepts what someone else tells you... is that Islam? or is it someone manipulating you?

Similar problem exists here where most are literate but just don't think. Similarly, the sheep just accept what they are told.

Education is the answer. The foundation of education is critical thinking. Think for yourself and question everything.

As far as I am concern Islam should be outlawed in all western countries.
From early childhood they are brainwashed in repeating the verses of the Koran and its a sin to even question the Koran and punishable by death.
Islam is exactly what the Catholic Inquisition was 600 years ago in its beginning. They want a theocracy based on the Sharia law and this enforced through out the planet.
Because they have many children and there has been a drop of birth rate in the western world many Muslims and Arabs have been grated citizenship in western countries to counter act that problem.
Now becoming more and more numerous they want and will impose in due time their religion and their tribal ways of theocracy.
All Mulsims should be send back into their own countries period.
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Postby greeney2 » Sun Oct 02, 2011 4:15 pm

What does Catholics 600 years ago have to do with what Islamic countries do today?
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Postby hxxx » Sun Oct 02, 2011 5:53 pm

Tell me. How often does it happen that someone receives the death penalty anywhere in the world for passing out Christian literature?

I call BS.

I don't believe that in any of these countries is it legislated that passing out Christian literature is punishable by death. Furthermore, I don't believe that you can present 3 examples of individuals in any of these countries being ordered to death by a functioning government.

zoltan2 wrote:As far as I am concern Islam should be outlawed in all western countries.

That is the direction the West is moving. Outlawing beliefs...

I'm not for outlawing any religion, but sure would like to see the fairy tales out of government.
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Postby greeney2 » Sun Oct 02, 2011 6:16 pm

I have definatly herd this is a very serious crime punishable by death. You asked for 3 countries, I showed you 5, and we never got to Africa. I showed you examples of real cases currently in Iran, for a Muslims converting from Islam. Why would it be so hard to understand, trying to convert Muslims, spread the word of Christianity, would also be a death sentence, is so unbelievable? You just saw Iran hold 3 hostages for 2 years as spys, because they hiked close to the border. They let them go as humanitarian gestures after $500,000 bail each. They are not normal in those countries.

You also ignored what I asked you to look at concerning rape laws. In Pakistan if a woman can not produce 4 eyewittnesses for her own rape, she can be tried for Adultry and be executed. Check out some of the laws in Saudi Arabia, Afganistan. Look what they do to people who do not make it to several prayer breaks per day.
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Postby hxxx » Sun Oct 02, 2011 7:45 pm

greeney2 wrote:Why would it be so hard to understand, trying to convert Muslims, spread the word of Christianity, would also be a death sentence, is so unbelievable?

It's not unbelievable, but it is not true. Your statement is not true. We are talking about being sentenced to death for passing out Christian literature. We are not talking about Muslims that convert. We are not talking about rape laws.

3 countries. #1 Afghanistan. Really? I don't believe it. Anyhow, hardly counts. Afghanistan, like Somalia, is a failed state.

#2 Pakistan. I can believe that someone might get killed for proselytizing christianity. However, I do not believe that passing literature out in Pakistan is a crime at all. Let alone sentencing the 'offender' to death.

#3 Saudi Arabia. I still say BS. Passing Xian lit out is not punishable by death.

greeney2 wrote:I have definatly herd this is a very serious crime punishable by death.

It must be true... What else did you hear?
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Postby greeney2 » Sun Oct 02, 2011 9:46 pm

What makes you the expert? I found many many things just like this, including the Muslim rape of a two year old baby, because her converted Christian Father would not recate Christianity. Just like the murders you hear about in Iraq, Pakistan, Afganistan, beheadings and mutilations for aiding colition troops, these things occur everyday in the middle east. You may defend them all you want to, the facts are the facts.

Muslim Persecution of Christians: August, 2011
by Raymond Ibrahim
Hudson New York
September 7, 2011 ... ugust-2011

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This series was developed in order to collate some—by no means all—of the foulest instances of Muslim persecution of Christians that surface each month. It serves two purposes:

1.Intrinsically, to document that which the mainstream media does not: habitual, if not chronic, Muslim persecution of Christians.
2.Instrumentally, to show that such persecution is not "random," but systematic and interrelated—that it is ultimately rooted in a Sharia inspired worldview.
As will become evident, whatever the anecdote of persecution, it typically fits under a specific theme, including hatred for churches and other Christian symbols; sexual abuse of Christian women; forced conversions to Islam; apostasy and blasphemy laws; theft and plunder in lieu of jizya; overall expectations for Christians to behave like cowed dhimmis (second-class citizens); and simple violence. Oftentimes it is a combination of the aforementioned.

Because these accounts of persecution span different ethnicities, languages, and locales—from Morocco in the west, to India in the east, and even throughout the West, wherever there are Muslims—it is clear that one thing alone binds them: Islam—whether the strict application of Sharia, or the supremacist culture borne of it.

Categorized by theme, August's batch of Muslim persecution of Christians includes (but is not limited to) the following anecdotes, listed according to theme and in alphabetical order by country, not necessarily severity of atrocity:

Attacks on Christian Symbols: Churches and Bibles

Indonesia: Two churches were set aflame; officials downplayed these atrocities by arguing that the buildings were "only made of board" and not real churches. A mayor also proclaimed that churches cannot be built on streets with Muslim names, even as Muslim majority regions reject the building of any churches.

Iran: Officials launched a Bible burning campaign, confiscating and destroying some 7,000 Bibles, many publicly burned. Likening their tiny Christian minority to the "Taliban and parasites," the regime also "cracked down" on Christians (who make up less than 1% of the entire population), arresting many, the whereabouts of which remain unknown.

Iraq: Two churches were bombed: the first damaged the church and wounded 23; the second damaged the church (a third church was targeted but the bomb was defused before going off).

Nigeria: Two churches were bombed, including a Baptist church no longer in use due to previous Muslim attacks; when officials arrested Islamist leaders, a third Catholic church was torched.

Apostasy and Forced Conversions

Eritrea: It was revealed that at least eight Christians have died in prisons, most under severe conditions and torture, simply for refusing to recant Christianity.

India: A female who was formerly stripped and beaten by a Muslim mob for converting to Christianity, continues to receive severe threats to return to Islam or die; likewise, Muslims held three Christian women "threatening to beat and burn them alive if they continued worshipping Christ."

Iran: A Christian pastor in Iran remains behind bars, where he is being tortured and awaits execution for refusing to recant Christianity.

Malaysia: Religious police raided a church when they "found evidence of proselytisation towards Muslims" and "receiving information that there were Muslims who attended a breaking-of-fast event at the church"; a Facebook campaign created to support the raid and to "prevent apostasy" has already drawn support from 23,000 people.

Norway: A Muslim convert to Christianity was tortured with boiling water and told by fellow Muslim inmates "If you do not return to Islam, we will kill you"; if deported, he risks death by stoning for leaving Islam.

Pakistan: Muslims openly abducted a 14-year-old Christian girl at gunpoint saying she had to convert to Islam; another Christian woman who was abducted, drugged, and tortured for two years—all while being informed she had converted to Islam—happily made her escape. In both cases, the police, as usual, are siding with the Muslim abductors. Most recently, two Christians returning from church were attacked by Muslims and beaten with iron rods for refusing to convert to Islam or pay "protection" (jizya) money.

Sudan: A 16 year old Christian girl finally escaped from her Muslim kidnappers, who "beat, raped and tried to force her to convert from Christianity to Islam"; whenever she tried to pray, she was beaten again and called an "infidel"; when her mother went to the police, they told her to convert to Islam before they returned her child.

Uganda: In accordance to Islam's Hanafi School of law, a Muslim father locked his 14-year-old daughter in a room for several months without food or water, simply because she embraced Christianity; when rescued, she weighed 44 pounds.

General Oppression, Violence, and Murder of Christians

Bangladesh: Church leaders, including an elderly pastor, were severely beaten in a police station for protesting that Muslims had illegally seized and occupied a Christian home. A previously tortured Christian activist is in hiding in Honk Kong, even as his wife and children face death threats from surrounding Muslims.

Egypt: Soon after breaking their Ramadan fast, thousands of Muslims rampaged a predominantly Christian village, firing automatic weapons, looting and throwing Molotov Cocktails at several homes; they beat a priest, plundering and torching his home; another Copt was murdered in his home, which was also ransacked. Separately, a Copt was savagely attacked by seven Muslims in front of a police station; he lost one eye and required 20 stitches in his head. And girls leaving church were sexually harassed by Muslim who hurled stones at the church shattering five windows.

Nigeria: In what is being called a "silent killing," ten Christians were slain by Muslims seeking to expunge Christianity from northern Nigeria; eyewitnesses insist that the army is assisting and enabling the slayings.

Pakistan: A Christian family consisting of 26 people, including women and children, lived in slavery for over 30 years, forced to labor on a farm belonging to a wealthy Muslim landowner; they only recently managed to regain their freedom, through the aid of the Catholic Church. Separately, a Muslim mob attacked a group of Christians watching a Jesus movie, destroying the projector. A Christian man was beaten unconscious for celebrating Independence Day, told by Muslims "How can you celebrate when you are Christian? Convert to Islam if you want to join the celebration."

Somalia: Al-Shabab ("the youth") is intentionally preventing food aid from reaching the nation's miniscule Christian minority: "Any Somali that the Islamists suspect to be a Christian, or even a friend of Christians, does not receive any food aid."

Sudan: A "humanitarian crisis is unfolding" in Sudan's border region where Christians and their churches are being targeted in a systematic campaign of ethnic cleansing by North Sudan's Islamist regime.

United Kingdom: A Muslim family was terrorized and threatened with death because their daughter married a Christian, a crime according to Sharia.

Uzbekistan: Authorities continue to pressure churches and Christians, fabricating evidence to punish or limit Christians' ability to practice their faith, and subjecting them to excessive fines, false accusations, and confiscating their Christian literature.


These were just some of the stories of Christian suffering under Islam that made it to a few non mainstream media last month.

Then there are the countless atrocities that never make it to any media—the stories of persistent, quiet misery that only the victims know—such as the recent revelation that a 2-year-old girl was savagely raped in Pakistan because her Christian father refused to convert to Islam: it took five years for this story to surface. How many are the tales of woe that never surface?

Now, back to your regular scheduled MSM programming on how the perpetually misunderstood religion of Islam is really the "religion of peace"…

Raymond Ibrahim, a widely published Islam-specialist, is a Shillman Fellow at the David Horowitz Freedom Center and an Associate Fellow at the Middle East Forum.
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