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Why I am right and you are wrong V2.0

Whether you believe in a higher power or not, this forum is dedicated to the topic of religion and spirituality. We live in a diverse world with different morals and ideas when it comes to our beliefs, so come in and share your thoughts.

Postby CodeBlack » Wed May 13, 2009 4:38 pm

mrshumphreys wrote:My poor, poor ruined topic.
:cry: :cry: :cry:

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :x :roll:
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Postby Nesaie » Wed May 13, 2009 9:43 pm

mrshumphreys wrote:My poor, poor ruined topic.
:cry: :cry: :cry:


Ah, you love it and you know it. :P

Why don't you try a do-over? I like do-overs. :D
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Postby Nesaie » Wed May 13, 2009 9:56 pm

Illuminati wrote:
Nesaie wrote:
Not specifically.

But, let's look at the whole chapter of Galatians 3. http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?se ... version=9;

8And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed.

(this is where Universalists came in or one of the passages.)

9So then they which be of faith are blessed with faithful Abraham.


And the Scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, preached the gospel to Abraham beforehand, saying, “In you all the nations shall be blessed.” So then those who are of faith are blessed with believing Abraham.


Basically, what is being said, including in the discussion beforehand is that those who live by the Torah and not of Jesus, who is a living Torah and who summed up the whole Law in His preaching (Love the Lord your God and love your neighbor- this is the whole of the law) is not complete in his practice, and to be complete one must also be in the Grace of Jesus, the fulfillment of the Law. Remember, St. Paul is speaking to both Jew and Gentile in Galatia.

Nowhere does it tell that a Jew who believe in Jesus is to do away with the Law/Torah. But also nowhere does it say that a Gentile is to practice the Torah, but it does say that the Gentile is to practice the Noahide Law, which is to bleed your meat before you eat it.


You're quoting Paul??? I'll take Matthew over Paul any day of the week. Paul twisted things. This is one example.

Matthew 22 (King James Version)

35Then one of them, which was a lawyer, asked him a question, tempting him, and saying,

36Master, which is the great commandment in the law?

37Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.

38This is the first and great commandment.

39And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

40On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.


What this is claiming is that the Law is based on Love. I disagree, but that is the claim in this situation. Of course, you have to understand the audience as well. Paul twisted this to claim that the Law = love, which is totally obviously wrong. Those who love do not enslave others or smash religious icons of others as instructed by the law.

For the rest, I'll try to get back as time permits. I want to visit other threads and forums too. ;)
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Postby Illuminati » Thu May 14, 2009 8:07 am

Nesaie wrote:You're quoting Paul??? I'll take Matthew over Paul any day of the week. Paul twisted things. This is one example.

Matthew 22 (King James Version)

35Then one of them, which was a lawyer, asked him a question, tempting him, and saying,

36Master, which is the great commandment in the law?

37Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.

38This is the first and great commandment.

39And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

40On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.


What this is claiming is that the Law is based on Love. I disagree, but that is the claim in this situation. Of course, you have to understand the audience as well. Paul twisted this to claim that the Law = love, which is totally obviously wrong. Those who love do not enslave others or smash religious icons of others as instructed by the law.


What is funny is I was going to reference the same text in Matthew if you made that argument. I used St. Paul because it is what was argued in the first place.
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Postby mrshumphreys » Thu May 14, 2009 8:14 am

Illuminati wrote:Well complain then. After all, you started this topic. Rant and argue away at what your topic has become. In fact, argue with what you hatre about Christianity.

I am even willing enough to go out on a limb and assume, note I said assume, that if I were to go off and spout Buddhist ethics you would probably find my actions fine whereas if I spouted off some moral dogma about Christ I would get strung up. Oddly, Christ and the Buddha ranted on alot of the same stuff, but nonetheless its a bias towards Christianity, is it not? So I am calling this out: You are not biased towards the Religious, just Western Christianity.

Care to defend?


You're doing an awful lot of assuming.
First off, I wasn't going to rant about what the topic has become.
I couldn't care less. It was a JOKE.

Secondly, yes, I have a soft spot for Zen stories and koans, but I do not enjoy anyone's moral dogma. I think religion is for the small minded. It has it's place, sadly, but that's about it.

My bias is towards stupidity, actually, and you are now right at the top of my list.

Good job.
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Postby BloodStone » Thu May 14, 2009 8:24 am

:lol: lOVE MRS. HUMPY , SHE ALWAYS SAYS IT LIKE IT IS. :lol:



You rock girl ! tell mr. humpy I said hey . Oh and Jr. too.





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Postby CodeBlack » Thu May 14, 2009 9:47 am

mrshumphreys wrote:..., but I do not enjoy anyone's moral dogma. I think religion is for the small minded. It has it's place, sadly, but that's about it.

“When you make the two one, and when you make the inside like the outside and the outside like the inside, and the above like the below, and when you make the male and the female one and the same, so that the male not be male nor the female female; and when you fashion eyes in place of an eye, and a hand in place of a hand, and a foot in place of a foot, and a likeness in place of a likeness; then you will enter the kingdom.” -Jesus

“And in that day the world will not be marveled at, […] and immortality, nor will it be worshipped […] since we say that it is not good […]. It has become neither a single thing nor a vision. But it is in danger of becoming a burden to all men. Therefore it will be despised – the beautiful world of God, the incomparable work, the energy that possesses goodness, the many-formed vision, the abundance that does not envy, that is full of every vision. Darkness will be preferred to light and death will be preferred to life. No one will gaze into heaven. And the pious man will be counted as insane, and the impious man will be honored as wise. The man who is afraid will considered as strong. And the good man will be punished like a criminal.” -Jesus

“An ass which turns a millstone did a hundred miles walking. When it was loosed it found that it was still in the same place. There are men who make many journeys, but make no progress towards any destination. When evening came upon them, they saw neither city nor village, neither human artifact nor natural phenomenon, power nor angel. In vain have the wretches labored.” -Jesus

Small minded. Yeah, I see what you mean.
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Postby Nesaie » Thu May 14, 2009 8:31 pm

Ahh, CodeBlack, it is things like that and the Sermon on the Mount that brought me back to reading the Bible. ;)

But...modern "christianity"?...nah...I'll never call myself a Christian again.

I think Paul ruined much of it and then there were the saints that came later that had issues like Augustine...And the True Monks and Priests who were really searching and murdered for heresy. Yeah...great religion that one. :roll: Too many atrocities committed in the name of "christianity" for my taste.

I do, however, differentiate between Jesus followers, christians and Christians. That is my own definition. ;)
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Postby CodeBlack » Fri May 15, 2009 8:43 am

I forgot, what was the difference between christian and Christian?

I understand the dislike for things that people and organizations have done but I don't tie those things irrevocably to Christianity. People have their own agenda and people make mistakes and do foolish things. You can't stop someone from evoking the name of the lord for their evil purposes. But that is the test of faith isn't it?

At the risk of casting pearls:
"He then, the father, wishing to reveal his wealth and his glory, brought about this great contest in this world, to make the contestants appear, and make all those who contend leave behind that which has come into being, and despise them with a lofty, incomprehensible knowledge, and flee to the one who exists."

Simple minded? I think not. But its not for novices. What is the "great contest"? Who are the "contestants"? What (who) is "that which has come into being"? Who is "the one who exists"? Your past, your present, and your future, all rolled into one.
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Postby Illuminati » Fri May 15, 2009 10:05 pm

mrshumphreys wrote:You're doing an awful lot of assuming.
First off, I wasn't going to rant about what the topic has become.
I couldn't care less. It was a JOKE.


Actually I know you made a JOKE. I was just attempting to add you to the convo. Sorry if I wished to have some fun adding you to the topic so as to bring more enlightenment to the conversation.

Secondly, yes, I have a soft spot for Zen stories and koans, but I do not enjoy anyone's moral dogma. I think religion is for the small minded. It has it's place, sadly, but that's about it.

My bias is towards stupidity, actually, and you are now right at the top of my list.

Good job.
Jackass.

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