shadowcass wrote:I did not say Jesus called out Elijah...I said he called out "Eloi" which is a cognate of the Hebrew "El" "Elohim" which does NOT mean "God."
It means "Most High" as I said previously. "God" is NOT a name...it is a title at best, A job description even
The word "God" comes from the Indo-European and means (literally) "that which is invoked."
The true name of the being Moses encounters at the Burning Bush is given in Exodus as I referenced previously and the accurate pronounciation of that name has been lost (since written Hebrew had no vowels and the Name was NEVER spoken. Other names or words being substituted in its place "El Shaddai" "Adonai" and so on.
Yod He Vau He "YHVH" the Tetragrammaton...IS the Name "God" gives Moses at the Burning Bush and it means what I said. Now..no vowels (in Hebrew, that is) and as for Yod it can represent the English letters "I" "Y" or "J" , "Vau" (sometimes written "wau" can represent the English letter "V" OR "W" are you beginning to see the problem?
I am getting very sick of people who have never studied Hebrew or Greek or Aramaic OR scripture writing about it.
The Gospel Writers did NOT say people misunderstood the WORDS Jesus uttered from the cross...but some misunderstood the meaning of "El" or "Eloi" as it is rendered in English according to the whims of the translators.
It meant "Most High"
The correct pronounciation in Aramaic, by the way, is " AaLaH" and it is related to the Arabic "Allah" (which means roughly the same).
Jesus did not pronounce El or the most high in Hebrew on the cross
"'Eloi, Eloi, lama sabachthani' was a mixture of Aramaic and Hebrew, translated by Matthew for his readers.
Jesus of Nazareth primarily spoke Aramaic in a Galilean dialect, perhaps along with some Hebrew and some Greek.Nazareth and Capernaum, where were primarily Aramaic-speaking community. Jesus may have also known enough Hebrew to discuss the Torah which is the Hebrew bible, and he may have known Koine Greek.
Jesus and his disciples spoke a Galilean dialect clearly distinguishable from that of Jerusalem.
On the other hand historian Josephus wrote in Aramaic, and Philo and Paul of Tarsus ( Saint Paul ) wrote in Greek.
Most of the apostles from the Galilee region also spoke Aramaic. The message of Christianity spread (primarily among Jewish Aramaic-speaking enclaves) throughout Judea, Syria and Mesopotamia, and even to Kerala, India in Aramaic.
Ηλι Ηλι λαμα σαβαχθανει/ܐܝܠ ܐܝܠ ܠܡܢܐ ܫܒܩܬܢܝ ("Eli Eli Lama Sabachthanei"/"Eli Eli Lmana sbaqtani")
Sayings of Jesus on the cross
Around the ninth hour, Jesus shouted in a loud voice, saying "Eli Eli lema sabachthani?" which is, "My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?"
And at the ninth hour, Jesus shouted in a loud voice, "Eloi Eloi lama sabachthani?" which is translated, "My God, my God, for what have you forsaken me?"
Overall, both versions appear to be Aramaic rather than Hebrew because of the verb שבק (šbq) "abandon", which is originally Aramaic.
The "pure" Biblical Hebrew counterpart to this word, עזב (`zb) is seen in the first line of Psalm 22, which the saying appears to quote.
Thus, Jesus is not quoting the canonical Hebrew version (êlî êlî lâmâ `azabtânî); he may be quoting the version given in an Aramaic Targum (surviving Aramaic Targums do use šbq in their translations of the Psalm 22:2 alohi alohi lmaza šbaqtoni ).
Mark's word for my God , ελωι, definitely corresponds to the Aramaic form אלהי, elāhî.
Matthiew's word for my God, ηλι, fits in better with the אלי of the original Hebrew Psalm, as has been pointed out in the literature, however, it may also be Aramaic, because this form is attested abundantly in Aramaic as well.
In the following verse, in both accounts, some who hear Jesus' cry imagine that he is calling for help from Elijah (Ēlīyāhū or Ēlīyā). This is perhaps to underline the incomprehension of the bystanders about what is happening. This detail has been argued to fit in better with Matthiew's version, since êlî seems somewhat more prone to be confused with Ēlīyā(hū) than ělāhî does.
Almost all ancient Greek manuscripts show signs of trying to normalize this text. For instance, the peculiar Codex Bezae renders both versions with ηλι ηλι λαμα ζαφθανι (ēli ēli lama zaphthani). The Alexandrian, Western and Caesarean textual families all reflect harmonization of the texts between Matthew and Mark. Only the Byzantine textual tradition preserves a distinction.
The Aramaic word form šəbaqtanî is based on the verb šəbaq/šābaq, 'to allow, to permit, to forgive, and to forsake', with the perfect tense ending -t (2nd person singular: 'you'), and the object suffix -anî (1st person singular: 'me').
In Aramaic, it could be אלהי אלהי למא שבקתני.
One thing for sure Mark Matthiew Paul Luke where not there at the cross.
I think that he was indeed calling Elijah.
Did Jesus not see Elijah and Moise on the mount at the famous transfiguration episode one week before.
Jesus and three of his apostles go to a mountain. On the mountain, Jesus begins to shine with bright rays of light, the prophets Moses and Elijah appear next to him and he speaks with them.
Were they talking about his crucifixion.
Were they suppose to be there to help him out.