The Black Vault

by **gudskepteacal** » Fri May 06, 2011 6:30 pm

But you are saying that belief in anything other than what we can confirm through our senses has perils?

by **DIss0n80r** » Fri May 06, 2011 6:49 pm

I am not saying anything myself. I am merely trying to open a line of dialogue.

Your question is interesting, however. Do we directly experience all of those things which science offers us? Is there any faith invested in that?

by **bionic** » Fri May 06, 2011 7:27 pm

What about how our innermost soul feels?
I believe our deeper selves, all of us feel..something.
People don't, generally, talk about it.
people are too cool 8-)

It is responsible for..the yearning.
Athiest's deny it , the religious celebrate it..
It's the big elephant in the room noone addresses.
The inner knowing of, "there is something, I feel something, but I know not what" that drives us all
Some call it "the hole that on God can fill"
separatenss..it allows individuailty..yet creates a deep yearning
damned if you do..damned if you don't

by **DIss0n80r** » Fri May 06, 2011 7:34 pm

bionic wrote:What about how our innermost soul feels?
I believe our deeper selves, all of us feel..something.
People don't, generally, talk about it.
people are too cool
It is responsible for..the yearning.
Athiest's deny it , the religious celebrate it..
It's the big elephant in the room noone addresses.
The inner knowing of, "there is something, I feel something, but I know not what" that drives us all
Some call it "the hole that on God can fill"
separatenss..it allows individuailty..yet creates a deep yearning
damned if you do..damned if you don't

Nothing Exists

Yamaoka Tesshu, as a young student of Zen, visited one master after another. He called upon Dokuon of Shokoku.

Desiring to show his attainment, he said: "The mind, Buddha, and sentient beings, after all, do not exist. The true nature of phenomena is emptiness. There is no realization, no delusion, no sage, no mediocrity. There is no giving and nothing to be received."

Dokuon, who was smoking quietly, said nothing. Suddenly he whacked Yamaoka with his bamboo pipe. This made the youth quite angry.

"If nothing exists," inquired Dokuon, "where did this anger come from?"

by **greeney2** » Fri May 06, 2011 8:21 pm

In other words, I am not singling out christianity specifically.

I didn't relate my answer to Christianity either. Your first 5 quotes, 3 were from scientists, so I resoponded to science for that reason.

by **greeney2** » Fri May 06, 2011 8:25 pm

"Faith means not wanting to know what is true." -- Nietzsche

Faith is having the belief, you know something to be true IMHO. Faith is a argument the atheists do not like, becasue they can not relate to anything without absolute proof.

by **DIss0n80r** » Fri May 06, 2011 8:38 pm

greeney2 wrote:
"Faith means not wanting to know what is true." -- Nietzsche

Faith is having the belief, you know something to be true IMHO. Faith is a argument the atheists do not like, becasue they can not relate to anything without absolute proof.

Is there really such a thing as absolute proof though?

by **DIss0n80r** » Fri May 06, 2011 8:44 pm

greeney2 wrote:
In other words, I am not singling out christianity specifically.

I didn't relate my answer to Christianity either. Your first 5 quotes, 3 were from scientists, so I resoponded to science for that reason.

The point was, I didn't want a mere pizzing contest between science and religion to dictate the thread. The thread is more about belief itself without necessarily being contrasted to science.

by **bionic** » Fri May 06, 2011 8:47 pm

the yearning exists..the yearning exists for a reason, I believe

by **greeney2** » Fri May 06, 2011 8:53 pm

Maybe not, becasue any math major will tell you the Pi carried out in decimals, will never end so we round it off, at a few decimals. Very few things are really absolute, maybe what we define as absolute zero in temperature. Than you have to define doubt and reasonable doubt. Our legal system in the USA defines it in our laws for a jury as a yardstick for proof. Having some doubts in anything may not reach legal threashold, of what is considered resaonable doubt beyond a certainty. Most murder trials are decided on phyical and forensic testing, rarly is there a eyewhitness, so the proof is never absolute. You can say I doubt he did it becasue he looks so nice in his suit, or reasonable doubt to where evidence conflicts or could mean something else, that creates reasonable doubt, in a legal sence. Even in the case of Bin Laden, could you say the proof of guilt is absolute, probably not, but all the other evidence would never give any reason for reasonable doubt.

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