The Black Vault

Boat People from Indonesia are a problem but not as serious as the politicians tell you here.

We get proximately 2000 per year, given the population of Australia is only about 23 million the percentage rate is about .1%.

The real problem that the Australian Government fails to tell us is that there is a greater percentage of illegal immigration from people coming in the front door (through visitors visas and work permits etc.) and who consequently over stay their visas assume new identities and live here for years.

Fear-mongering is the keystone of the Australian Government on the issue (and many others), regardless of the party who holds power. If you were to believe the former Prime Minister and his party (LNP or the Coalition) now headed up by Tony Abbott we are being invaded by boat people.

The Prime Minister Julia Gillard and her party (The ALP) also buy into this nonsense.

There are genuine refugees amongst the Boat People and we should help them as a responsible country but we had a thing called the Pacific Solution which saw them processed offshore but there were the few who got their feet on our soil who were processed onshore and held in detention centres.

Conditions in these places are not that good, if you could imagine a Prisoner of War camp or the FEMA Camps that the US has they would be similar and this has caused hunger strikes and riots etc in the past and occassionally in the present.

Riots and Hunger Strikes have since decreased since the ALP was returned to power when Kevin Rudd won the elections in 2007 and a lot of the abuses of power were stopped. All the while however the Coalition were saying to us that the ALP was soft of Boat People and that is clearly not the truth at all.

Since our elections this year which resulted in a hung parliament the issue has not been brought up again in other than a cursory mention as they have all been arguing over who was to be the speaker of the house and the negotiations with the independents who hold the balance of power.

I guess you answered your own question Nes. You can't lock up 25% of the people and many of the people running the country were of German descent themselves and that was even more true of Britain (see below). But the gov was already dealing with Japanese-American spies at the time of the internment and because the community was so small it was just easier to isolate them. They were not mis-treated, just denied their freedom temporarily. And it only happened in the West because that is where the spies for Japan were concentrated. They weren't spying for Germany. Not saying it was a good thing.

Hitler and some of the Nazis believed that Britain, or certain people in Britain, would be sympathetic to their cause. And the reason they thought that was because Britain had such a large community of Germanic people. That's why they sent Rudolf Hess. Saxons, Anglos and others made up the biggest portion of the British people. Even the royal family is German (Saxe-Coburg-Gotha). But Hitler mis-calculated, not being in possession of the full facts.

My family invaded Britain about 1,000 AD. Then they invaded America in 1703. I guess we'll invade Mars next.

On WW2, Britain and the Royals were quite happy to allow Hitler to do pretty much what he wanted in Europe but as soon as the Brits got intel they were next they declared war on Germany.

Brits a less liked in Australia than Kiwis. But don't let on ..they think we like playing cricket against them just for sport.

They were not mis-treated, just denied their freedom temporarily.

Just denied their freedom???? HUH??? That isn't mistreated???

How in the world can you say that? They lost their jobs, farms, property! They were separated from their families! Many were born here as Americans! Those who immigrated chose to for FREEDOM!

I honestly can't believe ANY American would say those words. If you can justify it for "them" then you've just justified it for "us".

You say this by claiming that some were spies. How many? We in the US continue to be spied on by Israel and China, but I don't see Israelis or Chinese interned. Who were the spies during WWII? Were they caught? Was imprisoning innocent Americans really worth the price? I say NO!

Nesaie wrote:Just denied their freedom???? HUH??? That isn't mistreated???

You know darn well what I meant. They were not tortured or starved or put to forced labor. They were not treated as criminals. They were simply quarantined.

Nesaie wrote:How in the world can you say that? They lost their jobs, farms, property! They were separated from their families! Many were born here as Americans!

And were is the proof that any of these things were lost? Their is proof, however, that they were compensated, however late.

Nesaie wrote:Those who immigrated chose to for FREEDOM!

And some of them chose to come to the US for the express purpose of spying for Japan.

Nesaie wrote:I honestly can't believe ANY American would say those words. If you can justify it for "them" then you've just justified it for "us".

I'm not trying to justify it. I am simply explaining the reasoning behind it. And if Japanese bombers blew your house to smithereens with you in it, you might have a different perspective.

Nesaie wrote:You say this by claiming that some were spies. How many?

I don't know the exact number and neither does the government. That's the nature of spying. You never know if you've identified them all.

Nesaie wrote:We in the US continue to be spied on by Israel and China, but I don't see Israelis or Chinese interned.

We are not at war with Israel or China. But if US citizens spy for foreign powers then they are subject to punishment under the law.

Nesaie wrote:Who were the spies during WWII? Were they caught?

Same response as above. Yes, many were caught which led to the internment.

Nesaie wrote:Was imprisoning innocent Americans really worth the price? I say NO!

That will always be a debatable question. What actions are justified to prevent spying? Personally, I believe that spies usually cause little harm and the secrets they steal are fleeting. But during WW-II spying by the Allies made the difference between winning and losing.

During the Cold War, spying worked to decrease suspicions by both sides. Our spies knew there was no missile gap. Soviet spies knew Reagan was bluffing with Star Wars.

C'mon Nes, you're taking this a little too personally. Much worse things happened in WW-II.

It was forced labor! They were taken from their PROPERTY and FORCED to work, sun up 'til sun down! That is slavery! How do you know they weren't starved? What were they fed? How many died? How do you know they weren't tortured? We know this country tortures! Prove your claims!

And were is the proof that any of these things were lost?

Seriously? Would you like some articles? Just say yes, and I'll get back to you with articles and music.

Their is proof, however, that they were compensated, however late.

Really? Like eminent domain? Like getting an honorary degree when you're 70 years old? What did they get after losing their Life, Liberty and Property? No True American can agree with the atrocities done to Japanese Americans during WWII!

I'm not trying to justify it. I am simply explaining the reasoning behind it. And if Japanese bombers blew your house to smithereens with you in it, you might have a different perspective.

When Pearl Harbor happened it wasn't even a part of the States! They hate us! The cause of that bombing was because we stopped supplying Japan with metals! Before we ever got into the "good war" we were supporting the NAZIS by selling our resources! When we stopped selling Japan our resources, the bombed the poor Hawaiians! It wasn't their fault.

I don't know the exact number and neither does the government. That's the nature of spying. You never know if you've identified them all.

In other words, NONE! You have NO proof! Once again, it's based on lies!

We are not at war with Israel or China.

Speak for yourself here. Israel are terroristic thieves and China is commie. I hate them both. So yes, both of their governments are my enemy. The people of those countries however, if they are of God, are not my enemy.

How dare you attempt to justify, though you claim to not, abuse of the God given Rights of Americans! They were imprisoned! That could happen to you or me. I wasn't born at the time, but them thar's is fightin' words. There is only one thing applicable and that is the Constitution. If you allow another American to be imprisoned and their property stolen, then you do NOT stand for the Constitution.

Pearl Harbour was at the time of the attacks a Federal Territory of the United States of America as such it was subject to US Federal Law as far as I am aware.

Therefore the attack on Pearl Harbour was an attack on the United States by the Japs.

I am not making excuses for the US Government however, I will say this, The Japs were talking peace and trade with the United States as they mounted the attack. From the point of view that what was being said were obvious lies by the Japs, how could the US Government trust any person of Japanese decent at the time??

It is six of one and half a dozen of another IMHO.

Anyway after the attack Pearl Harbour was subject to Martial Law which is a whole different kettle of fish all together.

Codeblack, prove your claims.

What if your neighbor was rounded up by the government, would you sit back and watch? If so, get the hell out of my Country and don't let the door hit you...

Joker, the Native Hawaiians never wanted the Brits or the US in there. We went in there for resources, again, like we always do.

We never needed to own Hawaii. We use them for a couple of reasons. One, for military, two for sugar and pineapples/coconuts/macadamian nuts. Mostly for their proximity to Japan/China/Korea/Asia...

The same reason we use Guam, but their a little too south to be of any real strategy. Hawaii is the perfect half way mark. But to use them as an excuse for WWII is stupid. I hate the fact that they were bombed and that nintendo used to celebrate that bombing as "christmas", it should have never happened. Then, the reaction to it, by locking up Americans...ugh! I also don't buy nintento or go to local baseball games, since nintendo has a part of the local baseball park.

Which particular claim do believe needs to be proven? Once again, I said I was not for incarceration.

CodeBlackv2 wrote:

Nesaie wrote:Just denied their freedom???? HUH??? That isn't mistreated???

You know darn well what I meant. They were not tortured or starved or put to forced labor. They were not treated as criminals. They were simply quarantined.

Nesaie wrote:How in the world can you say that? They lost their jobs, farms, property! They were separated from their families! Many were born here as Americans!

And were is the proof that any of these things were lost? Their is proof, however, that they were compensated, however late.

Do I need to look up the properties in WA? If so I will.

CodeBlackv2 wrote:

Nesaie wrote:Those who immigrated chose to for FREEDOM!

And some of them chose to come to the US for the express purpose of spying for Japan.

OK, how many, and this is one claim you need to back up.

CodeBlackv2 wrote:

Nesaie wrote:I honestly can't believe ANY American would say those words. If you can justify it for "them" then you've just justified it for "us".

I'm not trying to justify it. I am simply explaining the reasoning behind it. And if Japanese bombers blew your house to smithereens with you in it, you might have a different perspective.

Know what? It's the same propaganda like this "war on terrorism". You do realize that you're more likely to be murdered by a cop than a terrorist, right? Seattle cops recently murdered a poor homeless guy. Japan was never a problem, especially while we were sending them the materials to make the bombs.

CodeBlackv2 wrote:

Nesaie wrote:You say this by claiming that some were spies. How many?

I don't know the exact number and neither does the government. That's the nature of spying. You never know if you've identified them all.

Nice...

CodeBlackv2 wrote:

Nesaie wrote:We in the US continue to be spied on by Israel and China, but I don't see Israelis or Chinese interned.

We are not at war with Israel or China. But if US citizens spy for foreign powers then they are subject to punishment under the law.

I agree. Then, we need to bring these israeli nationals into our prison system, since they continually spy on WE THE PEOPLE. Let's start with imprisoning the mossad dancing israelies, shall we?

CodeBlackv2 wrote:

Nesaie wrote:Who were the spies during WWII? Were they caught?

Same response as above. Yes, many were caught which led to the internment.

Nesaie wrote:Was imprisoning innocent Americans really worth the price? I say NO!

That will always be a debatable question. What actions are justified to prevent spying? Personally, I believe that spies usually cause little harm and the secrets they steal are fleeting. But during WW-II spying by the Allies made the difference between winning and losing.

During the Cold War, spying worked to decrease suspicions by both sides. Our spies knew there was no missile gap. Soviet spies knew Reagan was bluffing with Star Wars.

C'mon Nes, you're taking this a little too personally. Much worse things happened in WW-II.

No, I'm not taking this "personally", I'm not Japanese. I have a problem with your words and your propaganda. I have a problem with ALL war, even if that war is called "good".