The Black Vault Message Forums

Discover the Truth!        

General Discussion Topics

N.S.A.’s Intercepts Exceed Limits Set by Congress

The Black Vault Message Forums has a considerable number of niche forums to place your post. If you can not find a home for it, and the topic doesn't fit anywhere else, then post it here.

Postby Jaack » Wed Apr 15, 2009 11:37 pm

More Dear Reader Conspiracy!

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/04/16/us/16 ... ted=2&_r=1

N.S.A.’s Intercepts Exceed Limits Set by Congress
By ERIC LICHTBLAU and JAMES RISEN
Published: April 15, 2009

WASHINGTON — The National Security Agency intercepted private e-mail messages and phone calls of Americans in recent months on a scale that went beyond the broad legal limits established by Congress last year, government officials said in recent interviews.
Readers' Comments

Several intelligence officials, as well as lawyers briefed about the matter, said the N.S.A. had been engaged in “overcollection” of domestic communications of Americans. They described the practice as significant and systemic, although one official said it was believed to have been unintentional.

The legal and operational problems surrounding the N.S.A.’s surveillance activities have come under scrutiny from the Obama administration, Congressional intelligence committees and a secret national security court, said the intelligence officials, who spoke only on the condition of anonymity because N.S.A. activities are classified. Classified government briefings have been held in recent weeks in response to a brewing controversy that some officials worry could damage the credibility of legitimate intelligence-gathering efforts.

The Justice Department, in response to inquiries from The New York Times, acknowledged Wednesday night that there had been problems with the N.S.A. surveillance operation, but said they had been resolved.

As part of a periodic review of the agency’s activities, the department “detected issues that raised concerns,” it said. Justice Department officials then “took comprehensive steps to correct the situation and bring the program into compliance” with the law and court orders, the statement said. It added that Attorney General Eric H. Holder Jr. went to the national security court to seek a renewal of the surveillance program only after new safeguards were put in place.

In a statement on Wednesday night, the N.S.A. said that its “intelligence operations, including programs for collection and analysis, are in strict accordance with U.S. laws and regulations.” The Office of the Director of National Intelligence, which oversees the intelligence community, did not address specific aspects of the surveillance problems but said in a statement that “when inadvertent mistakes are made, we take it very seriously and work immediately to correct them.”

The questions may not be settled yet. Intelligence officials say they are still examining the scope of the N.S.A. practices, and Congressional investigators say they hope to determine if any violations of Americans’ privacy occurred. It is not clear to what extent the agency may have actively listened in on conversations or read e-mail messages of Americans without proper court authority, rather than simply obtained access to them.

The intelligence officials said the problems had grown out of changes enacted by Congress last July in the law that regulates the government’s wiretapping powers, and the challenges posed by enacting a new framework for collecting intelligence on terrorism and spying suspects.

While the N.S.A.’s operations in recent months have come under examination, new details are also emerging about earlier domestic-surveillance activities, including the agency’s attempt to wiretap a member of Congress, without court approval, on an overseas trip, current and former intelligence officials said.

After a contentious three-year debate that was set off by the disclosure in 2005 of the program of wiretapping without warrants that President George W. Bush approved after the Sept. 11 attacks, Congress gave the N.S.A. broad new authority to collect, without court-approved warrants, vast streams of international phone and e-mail traffic as it passed through American telecommunications gateways. The targets of the eavesdropping had to be “reasonably believed” to be outside the United States. Under the new legislation, however, the N.S.A. still needed court approval to monitor the purely domestic communications of Americans who came under suspicion.

In recent weeks, the eavesdropping agency notified members of the Congressional intelligence committees that it had encountered operational and legal problems in complying with the new wiretapping law, Congressional officials said.

Officials would not discuss details of the overcollection problem because it involves classified intelligence-gathering techniques. But the issue appears focused in part on technical problems in the N.S.A.’s ability at times to distinguish between communications inside the United States and those overseas as it uses its access to American telecommunications companies’ fiber-optic lines and its own spy satellites to intercept millions of calls and e-mail messages.

(Page 2 of 2)

One official said that led the agency to inadvertently “target” groups of Americans and collect their domestic communications without proper court authority. Officials are still trying to determine how many violations may have occurred.

The overcollection problems appear to have been uncovered as part of a twice-annual certification that the Justice Department and the director of national intelligence are required to give to the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court on the protocols that the N.S.A. is using in wiretapping. That review, officials said, began in the waning days of the Bush administration and was continued by the Obama administration. It led intelligence officials to realize that the N.S.A. was improperly capturing information involving significant amounts of American traffic.

Notified of the problems by the N.S.A., officials with both the House and Senate intelligence committees said they had concerns that the agency had ignored civil liberties safeguards built into last year’s wiretapping law. “We have received notice of a serious issue involving the N.S.A., and we’ve begun inquiries into it,” a Congressional staff member said.

Separate from the new inquiries, the Justice Department has for more than two years been investigating aspects of the N.S.A.’s wiretapping program.

As part of that investigation, a senior F.B.I. agent recently came forward with what the inspector general’s office described as accusations of “significant misconduct” in the surveillance program, people with knowledge of the investigation said. Those accusations are said to involve whether the N.S.A. made Americans targets in eavesdropping operations based on insufficient evidence tying them to terrorism.

And in one previously undisclosed episode, the N.S.A. tried to wiretap a member of Congress without a warrant, an intelligence official with direct knowledge of the matter said.

The agency believed that the congressman, whose identity could not be determined, was in contact — as part of a Congressional delegation to the Middle East in 2005 or 2006 — with an extremist who had possible terrorist ties and was already under surveillance, the official said. The agency then sought to eavesdrop on the congressman’s conversations, the official said.

The official said the plan was ultimately blocked because of concerns from some intelligence officials about using the N.S.A., without court oversight, to spy on a member of Congress.
What?
User avatar
Jaack
 
Posts: 224
Joined: Thu Apr 09, 2009 11:54 am
Location: Google Earth

Postby Nesaie » Thu Apr 16, 2009 12:19 am

If the last administration hadn't put the "laws" in place, he wouldn't have been able to do this, now would he?

Where the hell were you when the foundation for this crap was being laid by the neo-commies?

Oh yeah, being a cheerleader for the neo-commies. :roll:
Such a society would be dominated by an elite, unrestrained by traditional values. Soon it will be possible to assert almost continuous surveillance over every citizen... - Zbigniew Brezhinsky
User avatar
Nesaie
 
Posts: 1312
Joined: Thu Apr 09, 2009 11:54 am

Postby Jaack » Thu Apr 16, 2009 8:27 am

Actually what you're talking about started with Clinton.

I'm not worried about it at all. When you communicate in public you're communicating in public. People everywhere have a right to listen, no matter how unjust you feel it is.
What?
User avatar
Jaack
 
Posts: 224
Joined: Thu Apr 09, 2009 11:54 am
Location: Google Earth

Postby Tairaa » Thu Apr 16, 2009 10:55 am

Emails.... Not really public are they?

No, emails are more one-on-one communications, clearly. I should get in the habit of encrypting my emails... Yes. I'll give everyone I talk to in emails the encryption key, and encrypt all my emails. Glad I don't live in America.

You know what your guys' problem is? You assume you know for sure how one is supposed to live, the government tells you what is acceptable and what is not. You cannot live this way, you must live this way or we will either kill you or put you in prison.

You can drink yourself to death, but if we catch you with one joint your going to jail.
You can work until your family hates you, but you cannot be unemployed and live somewhere in the mountains, because it's not your property, you have to work for your whole life doing something you don't enjoy before you can have a place to actually call your own.

Not just you actually, the entire human civilization really... Everyone thinks they know how everyone else ought to live, and they must live that way regardless of whether or not they wish to. You're all so marvellously in the dark about it too, it'd be funny if it weren't so sad.
"George Bush says he speaks to god every day, and christians love him for it. If George Bush said he spoke to god through his hair dryer, they would think he was mad. I fail to see how the addition of a hair dryer makes it any more absurd."
Tairaa
 
Posts: 2940
Joined: Thu Apr 09, 2009 11:54 am

Postby Lashmar » Thu Apr 16, 2009 10:58 am

You cannot live this way, you must live this way or we will either kill you or put you in prison.


Or the normal one. It’s un-American do this that and the other. :lol:
Read between the lies
User avatar
Lashmar
 
Posts: 5795
Joined: Thu Apr 09, 2009 11:54 am
Location: UK

Postby Tairaa » Thu Apr 16, 2009 11:07 am

Yeap, that's another form that is more exclusive to Americans..

Enjoy your mind control ladies and gentlemen. :)
"George Bush says he speaks to god every day, and christians love him for it. If George Bush said he spoke to god through his hair dryer, they would think he was mad. I fail to see how the addition of a hair dryer makes it any more absurd."
Tairaa
 
Posts: 2940
Joined: Thu Apr 09, 2009 11:54 am

Postby Lashmar » Thu Apr 16, 2009 11:09 am

It’s not helped by the fact it’s drilled into them from day one. Singing the national anthem at the start of school.

I understand national pride but come on.

Edit:

Don’t worry though because the commies aren’t going to get them :) . The yanks have a good plan, when the commies try to over run the schools the kids are going to blast the with the song.

It’s not a good as `god save the queen` though is it. You don’t have go wrapped around you’re little finder like us do you.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zUqTGZIexn4

a good blast for the Yanks. can't get more english than that. Brian May playing God Save The Queen on top of Buckingham Palace! beat that! 8-) :lol:
Read between the lies
User avatar
Lashmar
 
Posts: 5795
Joined: Thu Apr 09, 2009 11:54 am
Location: UK

Postby Jaack » Thu Apr 16, 2009 11:54 am

The expectation of privacy is not privacy.

The internet is public, period.

And Lashmar who lives in the police state of England where you're on camera 24/7 calling the USA names is funny.
What?
User avatar
Jaack
 
Posts: 224
Joined: Thu Apr 09, 2009 11:54 am
Location: Google Earth

Postby Lashmar » Thu Apr 16, 2009 11:59 am

It is because I’m getting out of it! :lol: :lol: :lol:

More tomorrow I’ve got a headache, been reading about two hundred pages of law speak.
Read between the lies
User avatar
Lashmar
 
Posts: 5795
Joined: Thu Apr 09, 2009 11:54 am
Location: UK

Postby Tairaa » Thu Apr 16, 2009 12:29 pm

Jaack wrote:The expectation of privacy is not privacy.

The internet is public, period.

And Lashmar who lives in the police state of England where you're on camera 24/7 calling the USA names is funny.



Jaack... Why in the hell would the internet be public in every instance? That's got to be the dumbest thing I've ever heard you say. :roll:

This forum? Yes, this forum is public. Private emails, are not public. Seeing as you normally need a password to view them, they are designed specifically to be confidential, the internet isn't always public. What about the military? If the internet is public I want to have access to the all of the military databases that are connected to the internet. What about seperate intranets? Are they public too?

You're a maroon, Jaack.
"George Bush says he speaks to god every day, and christians love him for it. If George Bush said he spoke to god through his hair dryer, they would think he was mad. I fail to see how the addition of a hair dryer makes it any more absurd."
Tairaa
 
Posts: 2940
Joined: Thu Apr 09, 2009 11:54 am

Next

Return to General Discussion Topics

  • View new posts
  • View unanswered posts
  • Who is online
  • In total there are 5 users online :: 2 registered, 0 hidden and 3 guests (based on users active over the past 10 minutes)
  • Most users ever online was 292 on Mon Apr 23, 2012 3:19 pm
  • Users browsing this forum: Google [Bot], Google Adsense [Bot] and 3 guests