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The Why Behind the "Why"

Whether you believe in a higher power or not, this forum is dedicated to the topic of religion and spirituality. We live in a diverse world with different morals and ideas when it comes to our beliefs, so come in and share your thoughts.

Postby Dark-Samus » Sat Feb 20, 2010 10:37 am

You can summarize all humanity with just one single symbol: ?
Truth doesn´t control you, you control it...
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Postby sheye » Sat Feb 20, 2010 11:06 am

You can summarize all humanity with just one single symbol:


I wouldn't dare to try to summarize humanity with any symbol dark,
considering I am a member of the "club" so to speak...

I think I'm human...just wait (checking)....??...yep pretty darn sure I'm a female mammalian or somthing like that...what species??

but gender ? female,unless hormones during menapause count :lol: :lol:

I ten d to get a lil more aggresive,a many other women have told me they struggled with that same emotion,of anger,a lil more...maybe sadnes as well.

anyhooz..outa here...(I like the green glowy question mark though,was very,..I don't know..cute and mystical at the same time...

higz dark :( :lol: :lol: :cry: :roll: 8-) :D :D :D
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Postby greeney2 » Sat Feb 20, 2010 11:45 am

Really?


Sorry, but yes really! When you just label something New age crap, that is exactly what I refer to as born again bullshit(pardon the equal expression). They are first and worst to be judgmental twards the rest of the world.

They do label and do not listen, they are about as narrow minded as you can get. They group all "new age" ideas as "Devil worshiping and Satan", and group them into astrology, the occult, fortune telling, etc.

Sorry Q, but I can not ever forget the chastising my wife recieved by "born agains", while she was representing a legitimate school of clinical Hypnotherapy years ago. They were in a major shopping mall, with about 100 other carreer opportunity booths set up, when at least 5-6 born agains attacked them verbally screaming passages form the bible and telling them, "they were the work of the devil". They were complete lunitics, swooping down on them, and making a major scene around hundreds of people. My wife and this other girl pleaded for them to stop, hear them out, and hear the kind of work they do, but the born agains were on a mission. They branded them, and were gone, and had no interrest in listening to them.

Another time, My wife was a teaching assistant at the Christian School our kids went to. The Principle was a born again, and had very fundementalist views. We happened to be in a rock and gem club at my company, where you collect rocks and go rockhounding. My wife was wearing a necklace made form a crystal, as we also had a jewelry making shop in the club. The Principle saw it one day(keep in mind these are grown women), and she walked up to my wife, grabbed her necklace and demanded to know "What is this"? , She made reference to Crystals being a false idols, Like she was some new age devil worshiper, was the way she treated her. she did this in private with my wife, and was flat out mean and nasty with her, Intimidaiting, grabbed it and pulled it twards her, and got right into her face in a threatening way. My wife was so dumbfounded over it, and upset. Imagine a grown woman having to explain a necklace to your boss that we are in a rock collecting club. And be worried she was going to get fired. We were struggling to keep our tuituions current. In my company, had any manager woman or man, did what she did to my wife, they could get fired on the spot for it. In the end it turned out this Principle over the years with the school, created several building projects,(first remodeling her offices) and her husbands electical contracting business was the one "selected" for all the contruction. Some example of moral behavior!

Its the attitude of both insodents that these people are judgmental and have no boundries, and sorry Q, thats how I took you comment "new age crap".

I don't really quite follow malai5 in the "why" post, but to just say "new age crap", is typical of the kind of judgmental boloney typical of Born agains. This is also why you sidestepped my issue in the Catholic thread. You may say you love your Catholic Brethern, but thats not saying you recognize their Baptisms and Confirmations. We usually agree on many things Q, but this one reminded me of those 2 things my wife has experienced.
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Postby qmark » Sat Feb 20, 2010 3:36 pm

greeney,

Where do I start? First of all, let me apologize to your wife on behalf of born again Christians who actually do follow Jesus in spirit and deed. It is my hope that you and your wife do not come to believe that all born again Christians are like those few you have come in contact with. I probably would have had a few words to say with them myself. Things haven't changed much through the centuries. Jesus called the religious examples of His day "white washed tombs" and "full of dead mens bones". Just because they appear to be religious, or say they are religious (for lack of a better word), it doesn't mean they are. This is my complaint today with most churches, Catholic AND Protestant. I have always been up front that I have issues with both, but I don't believe I have ever shown disrespect towards a Christian brother/sister, be they Catholic or Protestant. I am a born again Christian and I'm pretty sure I haven't treated you in any way that they treated your wife.

As for "born again", I believe it is misunderstood, like I said in the other thread. Some seem to think it is a separate denomination or something, which couldn't be farther from the truth. You, greeney, strike me as a fairly religious person. You believe in Jesus and in the Bible as God's Word. In the book of John, chapter 3 verse 3 it says this: Jesus answered and said to him, "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God." This applies to everybody, Catholic, Protestant, and any other. Jesus said it as plain as day, we all need to be "born again". I personally don't believe the Bible is bull****, and I don't believe you do either.

I will not apologize for calling "New Age" crap. It is judgmental in that I believe any system of belief that diverts one's eyes away from Jesus Christ is crap. The Bible would agree with that. I also believe, unfortunately, that there is a lot of crap in the church today passing itself off as Christianity.

With all that being said, I will agree that people have found positive experiences and some personal improvement with other systems of belief, but in the end, it will not be enough.
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Postby sheye » Sat Feb 20, 2010 7:48 pm

I will not apologize for calling "New Age" crap. It is judgmental in that I believe any system of belief that diverts one's eyes away from Jesus Christ is crap. The Bible would agree with that. I also believe, unfortunately, that there is a lot of crap in the church today passing itself off as Christianity.

With all that being said, I will agree that people have found positive experiences and some personal improvement with other systems of belief, but in the end, it will not be enough.


You don't mince words qmark, and that is a refreshing thing to see in a true believer of Christianity. You very much stand by what you believe in ,and don't diddle around with the meanings and wisdom out of the bible.You stay true to its message, and I fear, you are correct about the "bs" passing around as Christianity. None the less, it is for God and His Holy to reveal himself,as well as judge,so if a Buddhist,does not believe in my Jesus,the Jesus that lives in me,can love him,and appreciate the beautiful philosophies he does have of not killing,and treating all life as sacred..

I guess when it comes right down to it,it must be the "living" god who draws men closer to him,he finds us..or always had us..but it is HIS pleasure to save us,in how he chooses.

I believe ,the Holy Spirit teaches, a well as heals,as well as judges a heart,...and we need to be very aware,that God doesn't need people telling other people who and why god is. He needs pray and faith,so that all peoples hearts will open up to him.
If He is real,He is quite capable of doing that, quite well on His own,using His own tools....His own wisdom.
We do need to let the "real" god do things on his own time,and for those who don't believe their is a god....hmm(well this is all an illusion,and the flesh and bone you are sitting in, just got banged outa of a big black hole,
and wow,isn't sorta neat how things evolved...and sorta not so neat?)

anyhow may the "living" God and his Holy Spirit bless you all, with wisdom,understanding,and knowledge.
(and I'm sorry if I babble) :lol: 8-) :?
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Postby greeney2 » Sat Feb 20, 2010 8:01 pm

When I said "born again bullshit" I was not referring to disbelieving any scripture, I was referring to the way overzelous new born agains behave, act like a bunch of blinded nutcases, who just discoved an Amyway meeting. They carry it off to a degree of being so judgmental to a point of being ludicras about it, not to mention condesending and insulting to other religions.

Going off the deep end of not understanding why a Catholic calls a priest "Father", is a good example, twisting that around the only Father being the one in Heaven. Just like they twisted a legitimate use of Hypnosis, and Hypnothearapy, being something equaliant to the occult was just outrageaous. More outraqgeous was attacking someone in public and not having the decency to listen to what they had to say. Some go so far as to consider any Icon depicting God, as worshiping false idols. Like the Principle who somehow was threatened by a necklace made from a quartz crystal, my wife was not worshiping a Crystal. Why would you think a rock could replace God, anbd be threatened by it at all. All they do, and say, is to use only their own belief as the yardstick for everyone else. If you differ at all, you are a threat. They are as misguided as any radical muslim clerics in their own narrowminded ways.

I also worked with someone who all of a sudden discovered God and was "saved", and all he could do was badmouth Catholics. Ranting about the Pope and ranting about Catholic theology, he ranted about astrologers, and false prophets, and the occult, never once thinking Catholics are Baptised at birth and Confirmed at adolesent age, but they still need to be saved. Another coworker thought the haunted house at Disneyland was the occult, and the parade with Fantasia, was the work of the Devil and the occult. The odasity to judge that a Billion Catholics do not meet their criteria of being saved, is pretty darned insulting to me.

You don't see Catholic Priest badmouthing other religions, but to my perspective all the Born agains do nothing but judge everyone else.
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Postby Halfabo » Sat Feb 20, 2010 8:33 pm

greeney2 wrote:
Really?


Sorry, but yes really! When you just label something New age crap, that is exactly what I refer to as born again bullshit(pardon the equal expression). They are first and worst to be judgmental twards the rest of the world.

They do label and do not listen, they are about as narrow minded as you can get. They group all "new age" ideas as "Devil worshiping and Satan", and group them into astrology, the occult, fortune telling, etc.

Sorry Q, but I can not ever forget the chastising my wife recieved by "born agains", while she was representing a legitimate school of clinical Hypnotherapy years ago. They were in a major shopping mall, with about 100 other carreer opportunity booths set up, when at least 5-6 born agains attacked them verbally screaming passages form the bible and telling them, "they were the work of the devil". They were complete lunitics, swooping down on them, and making a major scene around hundreds of people. My wife and this other girl pleaded for them to stop, hear them out, and hear the kind of work they do, but the born agains were on a mission. They branded them, and were gone, and had no interrest in listening to them.

Another time, My wife was a teaching assistant at the Christian School our kids went to. The Principle was a born again, and had very fundementalist views. We happened to be in a rock and gem club at my company, where you collect rocks and go rockhounding. My wife was wearing a necklace made form a crystal, as we also had a jewelry making shop in the club. The Principle saw it one day(keep in mind these are grown women), and she walked up to my wife, grabbed her necklace and demanded to know "What is this"? , She made reference to Crystals being a false idols, Like she was some new age devil worshiper, was the way she treated her. she did this in private with my wife, and was flat out mean and nasty with her, Intimidaiting, grabbed it and pulled it twards her, and got right into her face in a threatening way. My wife was so dumbfounded over it, and upset. Imagine a grown woman having to explain a necklace to your boss that we are in a rock collecting club. And be worried she was going to get fired. We were struggling to keep our tuituions current. In my company, had any manager woman or man, did what she did to my wife, they could get fired on the spot for it. In the end it turned out this Principle over the years with the school, created several building projects,(first remodeling her offices) and her husbands electical contracting business was the one "selected" for all the contruction. Some example of moral behavior!

Its the attitude of both insodents that these people are judgmental and have no boundries, and sorry Q, thats how I took you comment "new age crap".

I don't really quite follow malai5 in the "why" post, but to just say "new age crap", is typical of the kind of judgmental boloney typical of Born agains. This is also why you sidestepped my issue in the Catholic thread. You may say you love your Catholic Brethern, but thats not saying you recognize their Baptisms and Confirmations. We usually agree on many things Q, but this one reminded me of those 2 things my wife has experienced.


I agree with you Greeney. Unfortunately the "born again" movement has given true Christians a bad name. The born again movement that began in the 70s isn't much different than the new age movement, both require the same type of mentality. If any of these people were actually born again, that is born of the Spirit of God, they wouldn't act the way they do. To them the born again is just a label that sets them apart from other Christians, or somehow makes them better than others. They proudly display their prejudices and assumed superiority over others, while totally ignoring the teachings of Christ.

While there are Christians who are actually born again, you won't find them acting like those you describe. And most of the time they won't be using the label either. They might tell you they are born again if the subject comes up, but they don't wear it as a badge of identification.
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Postby sheye » Sat Feb 20, 2010 9:13 pm

Greeney...don't get me started on how the catholic church has twisted some stuff..and really done some damage in the process.

When I read the bible and it tells me to call no one father but my father in heaven,I understand that to mean,that HE alone is our "true" father,although we have a vessel of fatherhood in the flesh that brought us into humanity. It pleases God when children honour their parents,but it pleases God MORE when children honour HIM,above all else, and if a child feels hi or her parents,are leading them to "live
unholy lives,they should follow their heart and seek God.

The fact that the church allowed yet another human in the form of a "priest" to take "father" name and image, when it was quite clear in the word of GOD NOT TO DO THIS!!!...what is a person supposed to think?
The priests and theologians, babble their way around it while they collect the money,and take away the sacred dignity of "gods" children , under this name of "father". Truly sad what many boys have been subjected to,as well as girls under those human "priests" who call themselves"father."

UUGH..sorry I'm having a bad day, and very emotional about certain things today..and the "father" thing made me snap..in wayz that clearly show the blatant disregard for the Holy Word of God . :? :shock: :cry: :oops: :roll: :? :cry:
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Postby qmark » Sat Feb 20, 2010 9:18 pm

Halfabo wrote:I agree with you Greeney. Unfortunately the "born again" movement has given true Christians a bad name. The born again movement that began in the 70s isn't much different than the new age movement, both require the same type of mentality. If any of these people were actually born again, that is born of the Spirit of God, they wouldn't act the way they do. To them the born again is just a label that sets them apart from other Christians, or somehow makes them better than others. They proudly display their prejudices and assumed superiority over others, while totally ignoring the teachings of Christ.

While there are Christians who are actually born again, you won't find them acting like those you describe. And most of the time they won't be using the label either. They might tell you they are born again if the subject comes up, but they don't wear it as a badge of identification.


Halfabo, I agree with that completely. Would you agree that, as a whole, the church (Catholic & Protestant) has some issues?
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Postby sheye » Sat Feb 20, 2010 9:30 pm

They do label and do not listen, they are about as narrow minded as you can get. They group all "new age" ideas as "Devil worshiping and Satan", and group them into astrology, the occult, fortune telling, etc.


Maybe they feel right in their judgement greeney, if you are strong in your faith,and your wife is as well?..this should not bother you..unless they start getting physical....and speaking of narrow minded...I know a few narrow minded Christians myself..."should I judge that narrow mindedness to be good,bad?, or perhaps just very true straight and narrow discernment?

:roll: :? :(
c'mon..for someone who posted a post saying these parents should hung,or some crazy over the top judgement for a kid who got burned on a indoor heater,and their parents grew pot..wow..that makes them soo evil..

while many of your lovely priest and bishops,and yes maybe even the odd pope.do far far worse in damaging children.

I saw you, for what you continue to be, to me , to this day to me.

A whinin' lil hypocritical .....ok..boot me off now :? :o :shock: :roll:

I'm tired of such hypocricy...if you need to take the plunge and send me out the door for telling the truth about how I feel..go ahead..make my day,but I'll sure miss 95% of you here,a lot..and that will be sad.
:twisted: you're getting to me today greeney..you are truly grating on my nerves
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