The Black Vault

Hi,


Many people have heard of Baptism with water, but I wonder how many have heard of the second Baptism, promised by John {The Baptist}, called the Baptism of Fire. The "baptism of fire" is only mentioned in two places in the Bible:

"I baptize you with water for repentance. But after me will come one who is more powerful than I, whose sandals I am not fit to carry. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and with fire." (Matthew 3:11)

"John answered them all, "I baptize you with water. But one more powerful than I will come, the thongs of whose sandals I am not worthy to untie. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and with fire."" (Luke 3:16)

There are several interpretations of this scripture and what Baptism of fire means.

I was once a member of United Pentecostals and they believed the Baptism of fire was received when a person was filled by the Holy Spirit. They believe the Baptism of the Holy Spirit and the baptism of fire were the same thing. That a person will be automatically be "baptized with fire" at the same time that they are baptized with the Holy Spirit (such as the "tongues of fire" that came onto the disciples at Pentecost in Acts 2:1-4).

Another interpretation is that Christians need to receive the baptism of the Holy Spirit after salvation, but we also need to receive a separate "baptism of fire" which will "set us on fire" for the Lord (or for evangelism, etc.). In other words, the baptism of the Holy Spirit and the baptism of fire are two separate baptisms for Christians. A similar view says that Christians will be refined by "fire," which would also mean that the baptism of the Holy Spirit and the baptism of fire are two separate baptisms for Christians.

A third interpretation is that Christians will be baptized with the Holy Spirit, but non-Christians will be "baptized with fire" (i.e. the "lake of fire" in Revelation 20:15). In other words, Christians will never receive the "baptism of fire."

I've thought about this and wonder what others think it means. I have a personal belief that what this refers to is after receiving the Baptism of the Holy Spirit a person then receives the Baptism of fire, meaning the fire baptism of fire stands for a test of faith from the world/Satan. I'd like to hear any ideas.

There is some good reading material online about this subject. Here is one I like, and used for reference.

http://www.layhands.com/WhatIsTheBaptismOfFire.htm

Item7

Baptism by fire has a personal meaning for me that I don;t feel like going into right now.

Thestory of the pheonix comes to mind.
Smelting metals.

I live in the southwest of the USA.

We have fire season here. It's part of the ecology of the place. A regular, yearly fire season.
It's needed to help control animal populations and plant overgrowth.
The ashes feed the soil and it all begins again.

Pruning by fire?


fire, water air, earth ...the supposed main four elements.

There's probably some kind of "reburth" that each plays a major role in 9to colpelte the circuit)

water washes away
fire burns away
air wind blows away
earth shakes away


"out with the old...in with the new"

life is change

Unfortuately most the fires are by arson in Los Angeles, Southern California. Hardley a natural process, however you are right about the reasons for the natural process of fires. Sequioia trees depend on fires, otherwise the seeds would not come out of the pinecones for new life.

Hi,

That's very interesting bionic. And its true. I live in Wisconsin, but many farmers burn the bush and weeds along the roads in the spring to help clear the wayside. Fire is indeed a great cleanser.

I've heard some people say, that the earth was cleansed by water the first time in a great flood, and this time it will be fire.

I ever knew that about Sequoia trees.

Item7

When I was a kid, my sister and I used to take turns burning the papers out back in a barrel, where my Grandmother was from in Ohio. Everyone had a barrel, and everyone would rake and burn the leaves in the street gutters, it was a normal thing to do. When was came out to live in Los Angeles, nobody was allowed to do things like that at all. However our back yard had an incinerator for buring papers, but the city outlawed being able to burn, prior to 1960. the little town in Ohio eventually outlawed the burning barrels and leaf burning, which was always a special thing to do when we were kids. Granny have an old house and used Ohio Blue Tip matches to light the stove with. We just took those out to light the papers with. that was in the days prior to the safety boxes that would only light the matches. The old kind you could scratch on the barrel or the seat of your jeans, and they would light. If you were good at it, you could light it snapping it with the edge or you fingernail. Thats why they went to safety boxes that could only light off the striking strip.

Sorry off subject and walking down memory lane a little

Fire does cleanse the forest. There is a great controversy, if they should let them burn out naturally or put them out. Who put out fires 200 years ago with lighting strikes?

bionic wrote:water washes away
fire burns away
air wind blows away
earth shakes away


"out with the old...in with the new"

life is change

Right on...cool Thats what I was thinking about, can't help to think about the other elements, they all are one when it comes down to it.

Back to the OP:

I would like to think of it as we will all be put through the fire. We put ourselves through the fire. What is left, is real. Standing in the eye of a tornado, I did this in a vision before and I knew its meaning, a test of will. Of our nature and its alignment with the rest. Our physical bodies are not the evil that some would like to think, they can be just as much a part of what is holy and true. One with the elements. I need to go watch XMEN.

Hi,

greeney2, I loved you sharing that!

We used to do the same thing when I was little, burning piles of leaves. I always like the smell of the burning leaves and my sisters said I was weird, Lol. We also had the big barrel out back for paper, until I was in about 6Th grade. Now we have to bag up everything and take it out to a landfill. It's not half as much fun. Good memories, thanks greeney2!

Item7

Just because something is fun doesn't make it right.

And people can blame themselves, always overreacting and overdoing things.

Thanks Item 7, you know what that experience did for my life? My memories of going to Granny's were so fond, that to this day, when I go camping, I take Ohio Blue Tip big matches to start my campfires, with and light the colman stove and lanterns.

When Granny lived in Lima, Ohio, before my Grampy retired from the railroad, they lived in a very old triplex made of the old old kind of brick. Just behind them is a brick locomotive roundhouse, that still shows on satelite maps. The old steam locomotives came in and out all day, and huge flumes of soot came out, floating twards the house. Granny cleaned impecably but decades of soot, was just ingrained in the hardwood floors, so you couldn;t run barefooted in the house. It was the sounds that were memories for me too. The sounds of the locomotives, the locust in the back tree, the old wooden porch screen door creeking and slamming shut, and the sound of Granny in the kitchen. She had an old kitchen hoosier and when she worked on it, the sound of putting something on the porcelin surface just carried upstairs and woke us up. We knew Granny was making us a cherry pie, from cherrys canned for Grandmother Greenewalds(my grandfathers mother) tree. Granny and Grampy didn;t have much money and didn't waste a thing. She canned alot, and used what she canned from nessesity. No matter how small the leftovers, they went into the refigerator, and divided up the next supper. Granny called the "gannures", and when you asked whats for dinner or supper,(no such thing as lunch) "Oh just some gannures".

One year Mrs G2 and I were on our anniversary trip up north, and went to a old cremery converted to boutiques. It had served the great Hearst Castle in the days of Randolf
Hearst. I spotted it was so old, that it had the old kind of push button light switches, just like the kind Grannys house in Lima had. They go back to at least the early 1900's. It just took me back to my childhood, and I asked if they would mind me turning the lights on and off a few times. She though I was a little nuts, but told her what they ment to me.

I'm sorry I steered this way off subject. Dark, I have been blessed with enough fun things and fond experiences I got from my grandparents I could write a book about it. I sincerly wish everyone else has these kind of childhood memories too.