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Did America Bring Down the British Empire?

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Postby Guest » Tue Jan 12, 2010 2:54 pm

Some Britons seem to think so, but the historical record suggests otherwise.
Jan 9, 2010
PAJAMAS MEDIA

'Here is a country that fought and won a noble war, dismantled a mighty empire in a generally benign and enlightened way, created a farseeing welfare state - in short, did nearly everything right - and then spent the rest of the century looking on itself as a chronic failure.'

--American writer and Anglophile Bill Bryson


On Christmas Day I spent lunch and tea listening to a long discourse about the demise of the British Empire.

This discussion did not derive of my own choosing; I had been invited to a neighbor’s flat for a festive meal and had hoped politics and history would not creep into the proceedings. Sadly my hopes were dashed when the hostess decided to launch into a lecture about the origins of the end of empire. She posited that the United States had been the driving force behind the collapse of British imperial ambitions.

This dear lady is a cultured and well-read individual and can be a formidable debater. I kept quiet as she explained that a succession of American administrations had set out to dismantle British hegemony in the world. Be it India, Africa, Palestine, Suez, Northern Ireland, or lands further afield, she said the Americans had been hell-bent on making sure the centuries-old colonial structure was undermined and then brought to an end wherever it may lurk.

What I found so implausible about this assertion is the notion that American presidents, lawmakers, and ordinary citizens were sitting in their respective homes deliberating on the obliteration of an ally’s interests around the globe. What was America’s biggest obsession in the 1920s? My contention is that the Bolshevik revolution and rise of the Soviet Union was at the top of any leader’s list as that decade unfolded. From Woodrow Wilson onward, the emphasis was on developing America’s industrial heartland and keeping Wall Street booming. Likewise the reactionary and isolationist lawmakers and presidents elected in the 1920s were not, I hasten to stress, hell-bent on bringing down the British Empire. The suffering of the corn and farm belts during the Great Depression of the 1930s was immense and the project on which Franklin Roosevelt had embarked to save his country from utter desolation was manifold. At the same time, the threat of Stalin’s Soviet Union and of internal communist infiltration was uppermost in the thoughts of lawmakers, intelligence officers, and leaders. The German American Bund and rising anti-Semitism, due to the suspicion that many Jewish-American immigrants were fifth-columnists wedded to communism, was a significant element in the public discourse of the 1930s. After the war there was a wave of trials, the Nixon-Alger Hiss hearings, and the Jerry Voorhis-Helen Gahagan Douglas cases culminating in the execution of Julius and Ethel Rosenberg as atomic spies. The communist threat had become an American fixation, not the threat of Britain. It could be mooted that the rise of socialism and of the welfare state under Clement Attlee after the war raised American hackles, but I do not see how this could be interpreted as an effort to disable British power.

Before sitting down to write this article I decided to research my hosts’ contention that America set out to dismantle the empire nearly one hundred years ago. I searched for core material and could not find much academic work that could back up this theory, although it is accepted that President Eisenhower hung Britain out to dry during the Suez crisis of 1956. France, Israel, and Britain took on the Egyptian dictator Gamal Abdel Nasser when he nationalized the Suez Canal; the three nations were abandoned at the crucial hour by the United States. It is said Americans could not buy a drink in British pubs and were refused service in other establishments.

Does this constitute “bringing down the empire?” I think not.

http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/did-americ ... sh-empire/

SR: The British Brought Down Their Empire when they stopped reading Rudyard Kipling and listened to Socialist Morons like Virginia Woolf, H.G. Wells, and Beatrice Webb

The British lost their Empire when they allowed the Best and Brightest to be thrown away on European Battlefields during WW1

The British lost their Empire and Nearly their entire Nation back in 1940-41 had it not been for the Poles who stole a Nazi Enigma Device and read their codes or the Polish RAF Squadrons who scored the Most Kills during The Battle of Britain or the Many Canadians, Kiwi's, Aussies, Dutch Underground Members, Irish, and AMERICANS who shed their blood to keep Hitler and his Nazi Hordes from doing to the UK what they did to the Jews, Poles, Gypsies, and Russians...

The British lost their Empire due to their Socialist NHS

The British lost their Empire when they allowed their Once Fine Intelligence Service to be infested with Communists and Homosexuals

Not to mention the current Pathetic Royal Family (Diana was the only decent one) who gives out Knighthoods to people like Elton John and other lowlifes....

And lets not get into THE SPICE GIRLS and George Michael !
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Postby Mr_Headshot » Tue Jan 12, 2010 11:50 pm

I see your reasoning but I believe your anger is misguided. It's not the fact that "communists and homosexuals" are infesting things. The problem lies in morally bankrupt people, as well as ethically bankrupt people.
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Postby tedrick » Thu Jan 14, 2010 11:50 am

Re the NHS - if the government (New Labour) stopped throwing money at managers, beauracrats and quangos that feed off the NHS coffers there would be plenty of money to go around and the NHS would be lots more efficient.
I thought we lost the Empire because we couldn't bloody afford it!!
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Postby jaydeehess » Sun Jan 17, 2010 8:00 pm

The British lost their Empire due to their Socialist NHS


That is one of the funniest things you have ever said SW

IMHO
Math, science, history unraveling the mystery, that all started with a Big Bang.....BANG!!
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Postby rath » Thu Jan 21, 2010 11:38 am

Did America Bring Down the British Empire?


In Short .............

Y.E.S

In the same way China Destroyed the USA.

See ..... Ascent of Money: A Financial History of the World
By Niall Ferguson.


In his book & on the t.v show, Niall Ferguson talks about the lead up to the fall of thye British Empire & the rise of the USA as the new world power.

& it all took place over Money & war.

If i recall correct ...... around 1914 the English sent war ships to the middle east or China/India & the USA disagreed with the move.

Then the USA told The U.K if they went ahead, the USA would call in the Debts owed to the USA by the UK & the UK would be forced into bankruptcy.

The UK backed down as it new it could never pay the massive debt to the USA, & the USA has run the show ever since.

The Decline and Fall of the British Empire, 1781-1997
Niall Ferguson.

Empire: The Rise and Demise of the British World Order and the Lessons for Global Power



After the American Revolution, the British Empire appeared to be doomed. But over the next 150 years it grew to become the greatest and most diverse empire the world has ever seen—ranging from Canada to Australia to China, India, and Egypt—seven times larger than the Roman Empire at its apogee. Britannia ruled the waves and a quarter of the earth.




Colossus: The Rise and Fall of the American Empire

After the American Revolution, the British Empire appeared to be doomed. But over the next 150 years it grew to become the greatest and most diverse empire the world has ever seen—ranging from Canada to Australia to China, India, and Egypt—seven times larger than the Roman Empire at its apogee. Britannia ruled the waves and a quarter of the earth.



& then the Rise of China & the usa has lost its place as a world power.

China runs the show now.

The USA owes CHina that much money the USA can never step out of line again.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/books/2008/oc ... l-ferguson

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Niall_Ferguson
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Postby evutch » Sun Jan 24, 2010 12:09 am

communists and homosexuals eh?
wow, i think you uncovered something there..
you're using that bean of yours eh?
well, keep thinking...
lol
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Postby bionic » Sun Jan 24, 2010 1:27 am

First of all..Britian is still a power player..if only on paper (it still gets a-lot of respect, around the world, that I see, anyway)

I think the US did play a huge role in The UK's fall from "Empire"..which is ironic because now the USA is an "Empire" in sort of the same boat it helped place Great Britain in.

The revolutionary was, in 'The Colonies', (at the time) was actually part and par of a major social movement..it probably helped lead to the French revolution and ironically the Russian/Soviet Revolution.

Many a revolutionary/terrrorist quotes the USA's fore-fathers,claims to be inspired by them..throughout the world..including those who are enemies to the USA these days..

...it's weird..kinda surreal

There's a saying
"One man's 'freedom fighter' is another man's 'terrrorist' "

Mostly, I think Britain gave up it's "empireness" willingly, wantingly.
I still remember it handing back Hong Kong (one example)
Maybe Britian got too 'civilized' for it's own good?
Willie Wonka quotes..
What is this Wonka, some kind of funhouse?
Why? Are you having fun?
A little nonsense now and then is relished by the wisest men.
We are the music makers, we are the dreamers of dreams
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Postby mael » Mon Jan 25, 2010 12:37 am

The British Empire is still alive and well. It just went underground.

The US is and always has been run by the City of London - where do you think your presidents have mostly come from?

The US is just a corporation owned by the Crown. - (On paper at least).
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Postby Lashmar » Mon Jan 25, 2010 3:42 am

bionic wrote:First of all..Britian is still a power player..if only on paper (it still gets a-lot of respect, around the world, that I see, anyway)


Paper is the new gold my dear. ;)

The old Empires are still going strong. Without Britain or Germany the EU would sink; without the EU the capitalist world would sink as well…but if the US were to collapse the EU would shut down and become the new USSE.

It’s a great game we play isn’t it? ;) :lol: :lol:

Mostly, I think Britain gave up it's "empireness" willingly, wantingly.


I didn’t give it up willingly and I still want it.

http://www.ngw.nl/int/gbr/b/brightoh.htm
Read between the lies
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Postby bionic » Mon Jan 25, 2010 5:44 am

I should have said it's "appearance" of empireness.
It willingly gives that up.
Which is smart and helps to make it a bit less of a target.

And I alos believe the USA and the UK are basically tied at the hip..conjoined in some way.
As are all the "modern western" powers/super powers
Willie Wonka quotes..
What is this Wonka, some kind of funhouse?
Why? Are you having fun?
A little nonsense now and then is relished by the wisest men.
We are the music makers, we are the dreamers of dreams
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