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Why Does Suffering Exist?

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Postby sheye » Sat Feb 27, 2010 10:27 pm

sandra wrote:
You ever heard ....when you believe something really believe it.
After you continue on your journey of shredding through thought processes, you start to maintain them longer, less to let go of, stronger of an effect stronger a cause in which we apply it. When we begin to maintain beliefs for longer periods.....you have no fear of being proven wrong, because you have experienced the truth of most other thought processes within god belief, and you begin to realise that being proven wrong is only of service to you.


Hmmm....so I'm assuming with that statement ,you are ok with being proven wrong , about "love" and ..."evil" being equal in measure???

does this mean the race is one, for this theory???

heaven help the fools who cannot see :? :(
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Postby sandra » Sat Feb 27, 2010 10:33 pm

qmark is more fit to help you with those questions, and I'm sure he has been. :)
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“—but there’s one great advantage in it, that one’s
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Postby khanster » Sat Feb 27, 2010 10:48 pm

sandra wrote:
khanster wrote:
at1with0 wrote:
What explains the existence of this isomorphism between thought and reality?



When the description of a thing becomes the thing is when the difference between the description and the reality is zero :mrgreen:

The map becomes the territory in a duality of realization.


Zero lag eh? :lol:

What do you mean by your last sentence there, can you help me understand that better? Any other words you can express that?



There is a paradoxical aspect that is elusive. I am not really qualified to explain it, just tossing out these ideas here and there :D Self description.


The primacy of paradox:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QzqrdzUxI4w#

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grelling%E ... on_paradox


Suppose one interprets the adjectives "autological" and "heterological" as follows:

1. An adjective is autological (sometimes homological) if and only if it describes itself. For example "short" is autological, since the word "short" is short. "English," "unhyphenated" and "pentasyllabic" are also autological.
2. An adjective is heterological if it does not describe itself. Hence "long" is a heterological word, as are "abbreviated" and "monosyllabic."

All adjectives, it would seem, must be either autological or heterological, for each adjective either describes itself, or it doesn't. The Grelling–Nelson paradox arises when we consider the adjective "heterological". To test if the (imaginary) word "'foo" is autological one can ask: Is "foo" a foo word? If the answer is 'yes', "foo" is autological. If the answer is 'no', "foo" is heterological.

By comparison, one can ask: Is "heterological" a heterological word? If the answer is 'yes', "heterological" is autological (leading to a contradiction). If the answer is 'no', "heterological" is heterological (again leading to a contradiction, because if it describes itself, it is autological).

The paradox can be eliminated, without changing the meaning of "heterological" where it was previously well-defined, by modifying the definition of "heterological" slightly to hold of all nonautological words except "heterological." But "nonautological" is subject to the same paradox, for which this evasion is not applicable because the rules of English uniquely determine its meaning from that of "autological." A similar slight modification to the definition of "autological" (such as declaring it false of "nonautological" and its synonyms) might seem to fix that, but the paradox still obtains for synonyms of "autological" and "heterological" such as "selfdescriptive" and "nonselfdescriptive," whose meanings also would need adjusting, and the consequences of those adjustments would then need to be pursued, and so on. Freeing English of the Grelling–Nelson paradox entails considerably more modification to the language than mere refinements of the definitions of "autological" and "heterological," which need not even be in the language for the paradox to arise. The scope of these obstacles for English is comparable to that of Russell's paradox for mathematics founded on sets, argued as follows.
[edit] Is "autological" autological?

One may also ask if "autological" is autological. It can be chosen consistently to be either:

* if we say that "autological" is autological, and then ask if it applies to itself, then yes, it does, and thus is autological;
* if we say that "autological" is not autological, and then ask if it applies to itself, then no, it does not, and thus is not autological.

This is the opposite of the situation for heterological: while "heterological" logically cannot be autological or heterological, "autological" can be either. (It cannot be both, as the category of autological and heterological cannot overlap.)

In logical terms, the situation for "autological" is:

"autological" is autological if and only if "autological" is autological
A if and only if A, a tautology

while the situation for "heterological" is:

"heterological" is heterological if and only if "heterological" is autological
A if and only if not A, a contradiction.


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Postby at1with0 » Sat Feb 27, 2010 10:53 pm

sandra wrote:you have no fear of being proven wrong, because you have experienced the truth of most other thought processes within god belief, and you begin to realise that being proven wrong is only of service to you.


The one who proves me wrong is myself. But that's just "my stuff."
"it is easy to grow crazy"
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Postby at1with0 » Sat Feb 27, 2010 11:01 pm

sheye wrote:come talk to me ..like a real life "hero " would??


you can read this,?

someday...your "vantage " point..or what you 'perceive as your way of "taking advantage" ....of the powers that be....will no longer exist ..in the realms .of mirrors and smoke you wish to hide behind....


I'll pretend the audience includes me. I sometimes find myself in the middle of a sea. Isolated but not alone. I suppose that I wish to hide behind the smoke and mirrors because I am afraid of the dark, so to speak.. The truth. Revealed reality.

the time will come ..when the dancing ..changes its "tune" for one of more "favour"..in the realms of grace, and sacred dignity.


I look forward to that time, if it isn't now.


To whom do I speak these words??

perhaps just I ?....perhaps to ...the realms..of the totally unpredictable, totally sanctifiable, blissfully unbelievable, and the ponderous, yet profusely proficient.......


Mystery is the spice of life. :P
"it is easy to grow crazy"
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Postby at1with0 » Sat Feb 27, 2010 11:06 pm

khanster wrote:
at1with0 wrote:
What explains the existence of this isomorphism between thought and reality?



When the description of a thing becomes the thing is when the difference between the description and the reality is zero :mrgreen:

The map becomes the territory in a duality of realization.


A bit of trivia.. If you place a map for a region somewhere in that region, there must be a point on the map that exactly coincides with the location that map points to. What an interesting map it would be if every point in the map coincides with the location that map points to. But what a large map.

Randomness has to do with compressibility:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kolmogorov ... andomnessv


If the map of the territory can not be compressed to be significantly "smaller" than the territory then that territory is, in some sense, random. Random suggests "uncaused."
"it is easy to grow crazy"
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Postby at1with0 » Sat Feb 27, 2010 11:13 pm

sheye wrote:sandra wrote:
You ever heard ....when you believe something really believe it.
After you continue on your journey of shredding through thought processes, you start to maintain them longer, less to let go of, stronger of an effect stronger a cause in which we apply it. When we begin to maintain beliefs for longer periods.....you have no fear of being proven wrong, because you have experienced the truth of most other thought processes within god belief, and you begin to realise that being proven wrong is only of service to you.


Hmmm....so I'm assuming with that statement ,you are ok with being proven wrong , about "love" and ..."evil" being equal in measure???

does this mean the race is one, for this theory???

heaven help the fools who cannot see :? :(


Being proven wrong can certainly be an eye-opening experience.

I'm thinking now about delusion. Someone who is truly delusional will never be proven wrong, from their point of view. When I've had exotic belief-frameworks, the beliefs were not falsifiable so I could never be proved wrong. I would contest anyone who opposed my belief-framework. Then there are of course times when you aren't 'delusional' and like to debate.

I have been reduced to merely saying that I have witnessed, but the meaning of what I witness if there is any, and the why of what I witness, are not things I know with much confidence.
"it is easy to grow crazy"
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Postby at1with0 » Sat Feb 27, 2010 11:14 pm

khanster wrote:The map becomes the territory in a duality of realization.

[/quote]


If the map is the territory that indicates to me nonduality.
"it is easy to grow crazy"
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Postby sandra » Sat Feb 27, 2010 11:41 pm

at1with0 wrote:
sandra wrote:you have no fear of being proven wrong, because you have experienced the truth of most other thought processes within god belief, and you begin to realise that being proven wrong is only of service to you.


The one who proves me wrong is myself. But that's just "my stuff."


Yes, true, I said being proven wrong, because thats how most people would view those things. Its more like let go, grasp, and let live. Most people fear change in thought processes, the more we let go, grasp, and let live, the more we have to live for.

Oops, hit a mod button...now this is in the right area.
“Living backwards!” Alice repeated in great
astonishment. “I never heard of such a thing!”
“—but there’s one great advantage in it, that one’s
memory works both ways.”
— Lewis Carroll, Through the Looking-Glass
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Postby sandra » Sat Feb 27, 2010 11:44 pm

at1with0 wrote:
khanster wrote:The map becomes the territory in a duality of realization.




If the map is the territory that indicates to me nonduality.[/quote]

Now what do you mean by nonduality? I have to go back and read that other post of khansters
“Living backwards!” Alice repeated in great
astonishment. “I never heard of such a thing!”
“—but there’s one great advantage in it, that one’s
memory works both ways.”
— Lewis Carroll, Through the Looking-Glass
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