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Final Opinion about SSM

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Who here thinks that Same Sex Marriage is about Religious Faith or Constitutional Rights?

Religious Faith
1
25%
Constitutional Rights
1
25%
It's a bit more complicated than that?
2
50%
 
Total votes : 4

Postby Dark-Samus » Mon Dec 28, 2009 1:05 pm

Personally, I think that Marriage in any form is 100% religious issue.

However, since Marriage overall is mixed with Constitutional Rights and we are talking about the majority of the western world now.
It is difficult for both sides to get what they want each of them...
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Postby greeney2 » Mon Dec 28, 2009 8:11 pm

In the USA there is no federal Constitutional Right to same sex marriage. The federal Constitution grants the right to govern, be left with indivudual states, so these laws are decided in 50 different States, not the Federal laws. There is an argument as to the the Constitution and definition of the "Pursuit of Life, Liberty, and happiness", if same sex marriage would be implied within this Constitutional promise. I do not know if that is something the Supreme Court will decide or not. So far the Federal Government has passed the ball on this issue, and left it up to indivual States. That was also the position of the Supreme court over the Gore election, to back the Constitution granting States the right to govern themselves, so refused to overturn the Florida Supreme Court decision backing the Gore ballot count judgement.

Individual states make there own laws concerning the criteria for a marriage licence. A few states have allowed same sex marriage, most states allow only same sex civil unions. At least 4 states voted this year to further define marriage as between a man and a woman. State and federal laws in the USA can not order any religion to allow these laws that conflict with their religious beliefs. That would clearly be a violation of Religious freedom. Even if a state allowed same sex marriage, it would be a legal marriage only, and they could not force any religion to preform the marriage. They could be married in City Hall with a Justice of the Peace or a Judge.

I think you know the answer and where the beliefs are from within Christian Religions, Islamic Religions. I am not sure of the position of Hindu or Buddists concerning this.

The issue is clearly a conflict between Laws and the Constitution vs. Religous teachings. You can put it into the same kind of conflict of Abortion, Birth Control, and the Death Penalty. OUr laws may or may not support some of these issues, but religions do not.
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Postby Dark-Samus » Tue Dec 29, 2009 2:41 pm

Well what I meant was mostly basic rights like:

I mean, let´s say a girl or boy has two fathers.
One of them gets cancer and there is no cure and he is doomed to die.

I`ve read and heard many such stories in some gay communities or in some tv-documentaries about gay people where the man´s man and daughter would not be allowed to see their dying loved one because they are not listed as family or closest relative person or something.

As you know I am not into religions, God or anything similar.
I do not care what the church would do in such situation either because it´s their point of view.
However, if USA really is a country of freedom more than a christian country then surely allowing the loved ones of the dying man should be let into the room to say goodbye.

I also know that some gays overreact with this whole marriage thing, possibly because they are religious too.
But all I´m saying is that sure I accept if the church does not want to have same sex marriages but surely gay couples or let´s say partners for life should have the exact same standards as married people have.

Because if they had it already, why would they continue demanding equal rights if we leave out the Marriage issue?
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Postby sheye » Tue Dec 29, 2009 2:57 pm

I think as far as hospital visits go , I think people should be allowed to make a list of who would be allowed to visit them in case of emergency. In some cases certain family members are very dear and other not so much. Loved ones that don't fall under the category of family often mean more to the patient , and will offer better support for the patients recovery.
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Postby greeney2 » Wed Dec 30, 2009 1:18 am

You asked a question and I tried to give you an answer of USA laws vs religion, which was part of your question. Just trying to clarify the nature of the delemia in the USA, and what a complex legal issue it is, most people do not understand. I havn't even talked about the status of "marriage", how it would affect many many other situations, like state benifits, insurance etc. Civil unions have alllowed many situations of partners declaring them as dependants on insurance.

The boy and girl question, I am presuming you are referring to the children of a gay couple, and their rights to hospital visitation. If they are adopted by them, as a couple, they are their lawful children and have a right to visit. There is a very important wording you should always use in a will or trust, that you do not just say "your children" when you leave something to them. You may have several biological children and one adopted, so the proper term to include is "all your lawful children". There have been cases where adopted children were left out of will becasue to the wrong wording, and the will was contested by the biological children. Your expample these children would be the lawful children, if they were not the biologicl children, of either of them. I have herd of some cases where partners have been denied visitation becasue they were not considered immediate family, but who really checks ID in the ICU wards??? I think that situation is not very common now.
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Postby Dark-Samus » Wed Dec 30, 2009 1:34 am

I have herd of some cases where partners have been denied visitation becasue they were not considered immediate family, but who really checks ID in the ICU wards??? I think that situation is not very common now.


Hmmm maybe they swift check and always stop if they see two males being mentioned in them :lol:

Anyway I can see more now about how the US works on these matters, thanks for your explaination.
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